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Preseason game 3: Doncos vs Seahawks

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Preseason game 3: Doncos vs Seahawks 

Post#1 » by Danny Darko » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:50 pm

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VS.
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Oh No Tebow

The headlines for Denver read mainly about a 3rd string QB(possibly a wildcat FB in disguise). As far as Seattle is concerned it's time to be glad Timmy isn't a headline for the 'Hawks and move right on to Elvis Dummerville and crew who will be next in line to end the Seattle QB controversy the hard way.




Injury update:

Seahawks-
Out: Russell Okung (LT), Colin "kankles" Cole (DT), Deon Butler (WR), Roy Lewis (CB), and Cameron Morrah (TE), John Carlson (shoulder), David Hawthorne (mlb), and Kam Chancellor.

Denver-

Tim Tebow's ego.

Things to Watch:

1-Tavaris Jackson in extended minutes.
Supposedly he'll get most of 3 quarters to do something. He's been harassed constantly and Denver's line should be all over him again. We'll probably get a look at the seasons reality of putting up numbers with a young O-line and jitterbug Jackson at the helm.

2-Running backs as blockers.
The O line deserves it's share of the blocking blame, but last week vs the Vikings it was apparent that blitzers were having their way with the rb's. If they don't pick up blitzes it's going to be another painful day for TJ and the QB's.

3-Injuries... fingers crossed, rabbit foot-check, 4 leaf clover-check, oh forget I even mentioned it.
Although...In a way losing players and games could bring us Luck.

4-The secondary- Seriously how many times can Jennings get completely abused before he's cut or benched? I guess we'll find out as it's inevitable that he'll let a bigger receiver take his lunch money repeatedly during the game.

5-Pinkard at Safety
Touted as the next Big Play Babs for his versatility and turnover knack, this will be a major chance for the often injured player to cement a position on the team in place of Kam Chancellor(foot problem) as starter.

6- Chaaaaarliiiiie, Chaaaaarrrlliiiie, Chaaaaaarrrrliiiieeee
Seahawks fans will certainly be ready to call Tavaris a bum and beg for Pete to realize the flowing locks of Clipboard Jesus can resurrect the anemic early offense. Fair or not Whitehurst's work vs the 2nd string has looked better than the guy who supposedly knows Bevel's offense but has been running for his life.

Predictions-

a preseason game will be played. Pete will be pumped and Tavaris will get jacked.
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Re: Preseason game 3: Doncos vs Seahawks 

Post#2 » by TTown » Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:42 pm

Wouldn't mind giving Charlie the entire 2nd Q.
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Re: Preseason game 3: Doncos vs Seahawks 

Post#3 » by Bulltalk » Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:29 am

What's terrible about having such a young offensive line is that you can't tell if Tarvaris Jackson is any good or not. I'm having a difficult time remembering if he has ever dropped back, surveyed the field, and had time to deliver a downfield pass.
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Re: Preseason game 3: Doncos vs Seahawks 

Post#4 » by TTown » Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:52 am

Luck's going to look really good in a Seahawk uniform.
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Re: Preseason game 3: Doncos vs Seahawks 

Post#5 » by Bulltalk » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:17 am

TTown wrote:Luck's going to look really good in a Seahawk uniform.


OMG! Three preseason games and I have seen pretty much nothing from our offense. Gun to head now, this is looking like it's going to be a long season for the Hawks.
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Re: Preseason game 3: Doncos vs Seahawks 

Post#6 » by Bulltalk » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:22 am

I know that TJ is getting almost no time to throw; but at some point you want your QB to pull a rabbit out of the hat.
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Re: Preseason game 3: Doncos vs Seahawks 

Post#7 » by Bulltalk » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:37 am

This may be premature, but I've already concluded that there is nothing exceptional about TJ. There was this *small* hope in me that he had this latent talent in him that could develop with us. He may well be a decent QB on a mediocre team, but he's not going to be the man. Let's get that out of the way right now.
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Re: Preseason game 3: Doncos vs Seahawks 

Post#8 » by TTown » Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:08 pm

Well, I've watched the first 3 preseason games. I know Okung is out, I know it's *only* preseason, but my observations are as follows:

I totally get why Hass wasn't asked to return. He'll always be a Seahawk, and I think it was out of that respect we told him we wanted him to look elsewhere. He would literally be bludgeoned to death behind this offensive line. I mean, he bruised a hip walking untouched into the endzone once last year. He might actually die out on the field had he returned.

So, enter T-Jax. It's also clear why Pete made Jackson the starter before he ever practiced with the team. Whitehurst's a decent enough passer, probably more accomplished in that regard than Tavaris. But this offense isn't looking for a passer. We need a guy with wheels who can run east/west long enough to not get himself mauled by any defender who feels like making a winner out of his fantasy owners in the sack category. Whitehurst can move a little, but so could David Carr. Didn't stop defenders from mowing the lawn with him for all those years in Houston. So T-Jax is our guy. Not because he's good, but because if we don't go with him, we're going to have to stick a receiver under center and run option because anyone who's going to try to drop back behind this line might as well just take a knee.

I'm not an OL guru. I can't speak for technique or blocking style or anything like that. I'm one of those guys who sees a linemen getting beat by a defender and I just shake my head and say 'shore it up' without really knowing what I'm talking about. I get that Okung's out. I get that Unger missed all of last year. I get that we're starting two rookies on the right side who got no offseason to gel with the other guys. We've got 3 first rounders on the line, and a second and a third. All are young guys, save Gallery. I'm chalking the struggles up to be a lack of cohesion and a need for maturation. But I also don't know what I'm talking about. We've spent a lot of money on this line, is time all they need? Are you confident in it in the future (2012 and beyond)? I think this year might be ugly, but I see a lot of talented guys out there.

It's really hard to say much about all our new toys on offense, guys like Rice and Miller. I'm sure they're fine, we just can't, er, get the ball out to them. I thought Leon Washington looked a lot more explosive than he did last year, which is to be expected.

I guess our offense has been occupying most of my thoughts. I find I'm unable to say much about the D. I think they've looked okay. The type of D we could win with and wouldn't cost us ballgames, if we had an offense to score points. I always worry about defenses trying to support an entire team because of an anemic offense. After awhile, they seem to buckle and you start getting a lot of ugly scores.
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Re: Preseason game 3: Doncos vs Seahawks 

Post#9 » by Sweezo » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:31 am

I'm suddenly very pessimistic about the team's chances this year. The only thing that really matters is the first team offense, and we have looked inept. I did not think we would be able to outperform some teams like the Bills and Bengals for Andre Luck, but it looks like I may have been wrong.
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Re: Preseason game 3: Doncos vs Seahawks 

Post#10 » by Bulltalk » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:26 pm

Sweezo wrote:I'm suddenly very pessimistic about the team's chances this year. The only thing that really matters is the first team offense, and we have looked inept. I did not think we would be able to outperform some teams like the Bills and Bengals for Andre Luck, but it looks like I may have been wrong.


With you. If we lose to the 49ers on the road to open the season, and then lose to the Cards at home a few weeks later, then we're officially in the Andrew Luck sweepstakes, as I see a high probability of an 0-5 start to the season. I just can't see us beating Pittsburgh or the Giants on the road, or Atlanta at home during the first 5 games with our QB situation, and our way-too-young-and-inexperienced offensive line. If we do start out 0-5, then a 2-14, 3-13, or 4-12 season seems a distinct possibility.

My fellow Seahawk fans, I think it's going to be important for our mental health to find some healthy way to psychologically orient ourselves to the coming season. :lol: If it does get ugly record-wise in the first half of the season, if we do fall out of contention in the NFC West by the midpoint of the season, what might we look positively towards in regards to the future so that we don't implode into disinterest?

I think these things might help us out:

1) A high draft pick to secure our future franchise QB

I must say that it is as clear as the sun in the Sahara Desert that we take care of this need in the next draft. It is by far our number one consolation prize for a terrible record this season should it happen. The question all season that will be in the back of my mind is how bad of a record will we need, how high of a draft pick will we need to get that potential franchise QB for the future?

I will admit to already looking at mock drafts and scouting reports for the 2012 draft in trying to discern how many potential franchise QB's will be in this upcoming draft, what teams will be looking to draft a QB, and where we will need to be in the draft order to obtain one of them. Andrew Luck is a given. How many others are there? 1, 2, or 3 more? I have no idea as of yet.

This will be the chief subplot as the season progresses, it seems to me. The fact is that with the parity that exists in the NFL today, and all the year-to-year player movement, having a very good to great QB will always keep your team on the radar screen for playoff contention. We've GOT to get that potential franchise QB this off-season. No ands ifs or buts about it. It's as simple as that. If we went 2-14, 3-13, or 4-12 and got the top pick in the draft, I would look upon such a hideous season record-wise as a blessing.

2) The hope of several good young players solidified as starters for some years to come

We're a very young team relative to the rest of the league. There is hope in this. Such players as these offer some real hope in this regard:

--Earl Thomas (S)
--Russell Okung (LT)
--Sidney Rice (WR)
--John Moffitt (RG)
--Kam Chancellor (S)
--Max Unger (C)
--Walter Thurmond (CB)
--Chris Carpenter (RT)
--KJ Wright (LB)
--Doug Baldwin (WR)

These are 10 young players who have a chance to accomplish this feat this year. If 8 out of 10 end up doing so, that would be great.

3) The slow and steady development of a solid and proficient offensive line

This dovetails with #2. If we are going to get that that potential franchise QB in the next year's draft, then it is imperative that we will be able to pass protect for him, and give him a solid running game. It would be great to see at least 3 out of 4 of our young OLmen (Okung, Unger, Moffitt, Carpenter) showing strong signs that they will be able to man the front for some years to come.

4) To be able to clearly identify at season's end the positions (besides QB) that we will need to address with our resources to become a playoff team, and that hopefully the list won't be as long as it is now.

It would be great if these areas showed signs of being solid for some years to come, or at least not of urgent concern in our need to address with a high draft pick or lots of FA money:

--safety
--wide receiver
--tight end
--offensive line

It would be nice to be able to focus upon these areas besides QB with our best resources:

--defensive end (a young and strong pass rusher)
--cornerback (a young lock-down defender)

These areas seem at this time seem to be slightly less of a concern for next off-season, but would always be great to upgrade:

--running back
--linebacker
--defensive tackle

5) If the season is bad, will we retain faith in coaching staff and general management?

It can always get ugly in this regard. Coaches can find themselves on the hot seat quicker than you might have expected. If PC and his staff can maintain a positive feeling through this season, and a constructive and convincing faith in the future prospects of the team in spite of a down year, that would be a big positive. It would be painful to have to go through another regime change, or to have to deal with all the calls for one.



That's kind of how I see things as of now for this coming season. I see us somewhere between being in the Andrew-Luck-sweepstakes, and being a 5-6 win team at present. I would be quite surprised in retrospect if we ended up being a 7 or 8 win team. I look at the schedule and just can't for the life of me come up with 7-8 potential wins, and I'm not sure I can come up with 5-6 wins either.

Our best hope, it seems to me, is to have a down year record-wise, get that potential franchise QB in the draft, see a bunch of positions get nailed down with young talent, whittle our draft and FA needs down to a more palatable amount, and to do this all without that feeling that our franchise is stuck in the mud without much hope for becoming a division favorite, let alone a Super Bowl contender in the years to come.
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Re: Preseason game 3: Doncos vs Seahawks 

Post#11 » by Danny Darko » Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:36 pm

Things i noticed about our line-

Ty Polumbus is not a LT (no duh)

Carpenter's big issue in pass protection is playing on his heels and collapsing the pocket anticipation of speed instead of trying to sock it to them aggressively. He needs to try to maul even in pass protection otherwise he's getting himself off balance and giving DE's the opportunity to put moves on him.

Moffit needs to get lower and stay lower unless he's the pulling guard.

Unger needs to add base strength.


What I noticed about Tavaris Jackson- I agree with TTown completely. Tavaris has the required run for you life quality we need to have a qb play more than one game before getting hurt.
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Re: Preseason game 3: Doncos vs Seahawks 

Post#12 » by TTown » Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:14 pm

I'll definitely retain confidence in the coaching staff, even if this year turns out to be as brutal as it's looking to be. Some of my post above was in jest, but there's also a disturbing amount of truth to it, IMO. I guess my mindset when we signed Tavaris Jackson immediately shifted to, "well, we're purposely trying to tank." Pete Carroll has an ego, but he's not stupid. You don't spend the money we did and bring in all the talent we did and gives Tavaris the keys to the kingdom and think you're going to win. T-Jax is a sacrificial lamb. Luck or Barkley or Landry or whoever we take with our top 4 pick next year will be walking into a pretty decent team, IMO.
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Re: Preseason game 3: Doncos vs Seahawks 

Post#13 » by Danny Darko » Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:28 pm

re: Bulltalk's post-

I'll still have faith in the office and coaching (thought some coordinators may draw my ire). I think we had to expect going young would do this to us for a season or more and last year was not even a full rebuild.

We'll certainly be draft experts by midseason and I'm guessing more than a few fans will start wondering if we missed on a few of the guys we could have gotten again (call it Sanchez syndrome). Of course Mallett looks good in preseason surrounded by patriot vets and Dalton may do some things on a terrible team, but if you throw those same guys into our current O-line setup we'd probably be calling those guys jokes and be pissed we wasted a pick. The reality is if the line becomes late bloomers, but starts to solidify by seasons end we will be both in a position of taking a QB high in the 1st and also will have put that guy in a situation to look more like Bradford/Freeman than Clausen.

Now who comes out studly in College? Does Luck pull a Locker and tank? Does Barkley groom up to continue his work with Pete? Bueller... Bueller.... anyone? I just hope it's one of the projected big three and they shine all year, because the Cam Newton "surprise I'm here!" prospects make me nervous. I'd rather have a Bradford "yeah he looks great, but we still have doubts all of the sudden" model.
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Re: Preseason game 3: Doncos vs Seahawks 

Post#14 » by Sweezo » Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:53 am

Bulltalk wrote:1) A high draft pick to secure our future franchise QB


Not a sentiment I typically agree with, but maybe. Luck's no joke, and Barkley would be a very good consolation prize. While this season wasn't one where having a high draft pick and needing a future elite QB went together, next season seems far different to me.

Bulltalk wrote:2) The hope of several good young players solidified as starters for some years to come


Hey! You left Golden Tate off your list! Must've been an oversight...

Past those ten, there are some intriguing prospects in our LB corps too. I'm definitely not concerned about the young talent that's coming in. They just need time and a chance.

Bulltalk wrote:3) The slow and steady development of a solid and proficient offensive line


And yet, today we hear the 'Hawks are bringing Gurode in for a visit and Pete says the RT spot is open for competition. It's almost as if the coaching staff doesn't think the product they have put on the field the first three games is adequate.

I want the young players to learn, but if they are not ready...let them learn from the bench. I don't want to see any more needless injuries or be the laughingstock of the league in the name of progress. Mistakes can and should be made, but what's happened so far is concerning.

The shortened offseason was fun once free agency started, but I think it's taken a toll on our young line. Not having OTAs and knowing what to expect in preseason seems to be costing us dearly. Carpenter's conditioning is iffy, and the lack of experience is obvious.
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Re: Preseason game 3: Doncos vs Seahawks 

Post#15 » by Bulltalk » Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:49 pm

Sweezo wrote:Hey! You left Golden Tate off your list! Must've been an oversight...


I think of him as Bronze Tate at present.
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Re: Preseason game 3: Doncos vs Seahawks 

Post#16 » by Sweezo » Fri Sep 2, 2011 1:43 am

I'm finally watching this game as I was out of town this weekend. So far through the first quarter...I know the offensive line doesn't look great, but I also don't think they look incompetent. One the first series alone Jackson had some time, but he just sits there and hops while the defense closes in on him. He doesn't step up in the pocket to make a play, he steps in the pocket to look to make an ill-advised attempt at throwing the ball away.

Right as I type that the Broncos send men on a 3rd down blitz which we pick up well enough. Jackson hops a couple times, then rushes a pass when a defender gets to him and it's out of reach of Leon Washington.

Ohhh...and there is a fantastic cut block by Gallery on Bunkley. I digress...

For all his faults, through three games Whitehurst's been able to get the ball and get rid of it. He appears decisive while Jackson doesn't. Our line may be a work in progress, but Jackson also appears to be a lousy QB. I get the argument an athletic QB can survive may be the best choice with a problematic line, but on the other hand an inattentive QB with accuracy issues might also be the worst possible thing we could throw out there.

It also wouldn't hurt if the QB was better at calling audibles, too; I know the team's like to use a stripped down version of the playbook but on the play before the 1st Q FG Jackson appeared to call out a blitz...but the player he was pointing at stayed in coverage, and the TE who would presumably be asked to stay in to pick up the blitz ran down the middle of the field and cut across the middle. Whose fault is that? The QB? The TE? The coaching staff?

I think Carpenter should get a majority of the snaps at RT, but Giacomini needs to spell him on more series.
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Re: Preseason game 3: Doncos vs Seahawks 

Post#17 » by Sweezo » Fri Sep 2, 2011 2:25 am

Also, the defense looks pretty good to me. The offense didn't give them much of a rest in the first half but they still kept playing hard. I like our defensive backfield more than I have in recent years. Thurmond showed a bit of rust but I still like how he plays and his overall potential. Trufant looks healthy and effective. Browner and Sherman look like decent [albeit untested] depth. Thomas/Chancellor/Legree/J. Johnson/Pinkard all show their potential, and we'll likely end up cutting a safety that I don't think anyone really wants to cut.

I also like our defensive line [though I am worried about depth]. When Clemons/Cole/Mebane/Bryant were healthy, teams couldn't run on us. Then Bryant went down in that terrible Raiders game and our defense changed dramatically. That said, the second half of the season also showed that Brock can rush the edge and Siavii can make some plays in the middle. With Mebane back, Branch added, Bryant [hopefully] healthy, and Clemons/Brock both available I find the mix intriguing.

Our LB corps really concerned me before the preseason with the loss of Tatupu and Herring. But over three games Leroy Hill's looked way better than I expected. Curry's the great unknown, but the young guys [Wright/M. Smith] look rangy and, well, not clueless.

I'm still pessimistic about our chances of winning the division, but I also think this team has a ton of potential. Get a good young QB in the offseason, and give this young OL some time to gel, and we're in pretty good shape next year IMO.

Think of it this way. Let's say there was a supplemental draft announced tomorrow, Luck declared, and we got him. How much better would you feel heading into this season? Even with the offensive line's issues with assignments/protections?

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