John Maine

[34Celtic]

-= original quote snipped =-


That's because over there, their definition of trolling is 'a fan of another team posting on our board regardless of what they say.' This is a FORUM, a place where discussions and yes, even arguments take place. Just like they should. People need to lighten up from time to time.

I just don't understand why I was suspended. I posted reactions to different comments by them.

[nykgeneralmanager]

-= original quote snipped =-



I just don't understand why I was suspended. I posted reactions to different comments by them.

Well I don't know what you were suspended for or if you were warned prior to that, but I have more tolerance than most people so I let a lot go as long as it isn't along the lines of personal attacks. I have no problem with Mets fans joining the discussion of how good or bad John Maine is, that's how it should be on a forum.

[Lord Commander]

That's because over there, their definition of trolling is 'a fan of another team posting on our board regardless of what they say.' [b]This is a FORUM, a place where discussions and yes, even arguments take place. Just like they should. People need to lighten up from time to time

Thank you. No one is "trolling" this is a civilized, adult conversation...

[cmaff051]

^cmaff what's your complex with hating on John Maine? Who cares, he's lost 3 in a row... We got bigger thing to worry about, no?

Yes, we do. This is just another topic of discussion though.

You're basing that off one start and the fact that he happens to be a Met. How many times have you seen him pitch outside of Baltimore? Rick Peterson, the best pitching coach in the ML IMO, is still working on him. So far he's got a ++ fatsball, a mediocre changeup and a slider that is still under construction...

John Maine doesn't have a plus plus fastball. And you yourself just admitted that his secondary stuff isn't very good.

And can we stop with this myth that I've never watched any of Maine's met starts other than this one? That's completely untrue and unfair to say.

[cmaff051]

Thank you. No one is "trolling" this is a civilized, adult conversation...

Guys, it's just a discussion. Nobody is trolling.

[Lord Commander]

John Maine doesn't have a plus plus fastball. And you yourself just admitted that his secondary stuff isn't very good

Sure he does. You just have a little difficulty with objectivity Afterall, he's not a Yankee ...

And can we stop with this myth that I've never watched any of Maine's met starts other than this one? That's completely untrue and unfair to say.

So how many? 5? 10? What's the sample size to justify you lebeling him "garbage"

[cmaff051]

Sure he does. You just have a little difficulty with objectivity Afterall, he's not a Yankee .

Come on, a plus plus fastball is something like Josh Beckett or Brad Penny has. Maine's fastball isn't even close to that velocity.

So how many? 5? 10? What's the sample size to justify you lebeling him "garbage"

I've watched about 5 of his starts this year, all of his starts in the playoffs last year, and quite a few of his starts last year in the regular season.

[nykgeneralmanager]

-= original quote snipped =-



Come on, a plus plus fastball is something like Josh Beckett or Brad Penny has. Maine's fastball isn't even close to that velocity.

To be fair, velocity isn't what a plus fastball is about. Hughes' fastball is a plus pitch, and he only throws it about 1-2 mph harder than Maine. It's about location and movement, and Maine has both on his fastball. It's a plus pitch.

[cmaff051]

-= original quote snipped =-


To be fair, velocity isn't what a plus fastball is about. Hughes' fastball is a plus pitch, and he only throws it about 1-2 mph harder than Maine. It's about location and movement, and Maine has both on his fastball. It's a plus pitch.

Hughes has much better command of his fastball than Maine will ever. I think Hughes fastball is plus plus because of how hard he throws it and how well he commands it. And people forget that he threw is the 93-95 range towards the end of the year in Trenton last year.. he gains velocity as the season goes on.

[nykgeneralmanager]

-= original quote snipped =-



Hughes has much better command of his fastball than Maine will ever. I think Hughes fastball is plus plus because of how hard he throws it and how well he commands it. And people forget that he threw is the 93-95 range towards the end of the year in Trenton last year.. he gains velocity as the season goes on.

Yes and Maine throws his consistently at 92 mph, so no more than a 2 mph difference between the two. And while Maine has slightly less command of it than Hughes, I think it slightly more movement. If you feel that Hughes' fastball is a plus plus pitch (which I wouldn't argue) then you can't really think that Maine's is any less than a plus pitch.

[cmaff051]

I never said that Maine's fastball wasn't a plus pitch. I believe it is. I just don't it's a plus plus pitch like Soul does. If he had pinpoint command of it, I might consider it a plus plus pitch. But he doesn't.

[Lord Commander]

-= original quote snipped =-



I've watched about 5 of his starts this year, all of his starts in the playoffs last year, and quite a few of his starts last year in the regular season.

And based on what you've seen, particularly in the playoffs, he's "garbage." Like I said, objectivity is not your strong suit.

[cmaff051]

-= original quote snipped =-



And based on what you've seen, particularly in the playoffs, he's "garbage." Like I said, objectivity is not your strong suit.

I guess that's a bit of an exagerration. He isn't garbage in the NL. He's decent. But he's garbage in relation to how some Mets fans rate him (as an ace).

[Lord Commander]

I never said that Maine's fastball wasn't a plus pitch. I believe it is. I just don't it's a plus plus pitch like Soul does. If he had pinpoint command of it, I might consider it a plus plus pitch. But he doesn't.

I think we're splitting hairs. I just resent you labeling the kid, who is only 25, "garbage" because he isn't a yankee prospect. It shows that: A) you're not being very objective or B) you just don't know what you're talking about...

[34Celtic]

-= original quote snipped =-



I think we're splitting hairs. I just resent you labeling the kid, who is only 25, "garbage" because he isn't a yankee prospect. It shows that: A) you're not being very objective or B) you just don't know what you're talking about...

I would take Hughes and Clippard over Maine in a second. Rasner or Karstens would be a tossup

[Lord Commander]

-= original quote snipped =-



I guess that's a bit of an exagerration. He isn't garbage in the NL. He's decent. But he's garbage in relation to how some Mets fans rate him (as an ace).

I'll admit that the AL has slightly better pitching but it's statistically insignificant to prove that the AL is far and away the dominant league. Everyone is going by last seasons interleague play record and a few poor performing NL clubs but that argument is no longer true...If you argue that it is, show me some convincing stats. IMHO, the AL is "Arcade Baseball" with the DH anyway

[Lord Commander]

-= original quote snipped =-



I would take Hughes and Clippard over Maine in a second. Rasner or Karstens would be a tossup

Why?!?!

[34Celtic]

-= original quote snipped =-




Why?!?!

Seriously?

[Lord Commander]

-= original quote snipped =-



Seriously?

Seriously...usually people have some basis for their assertions...

If you tell me because of last night then I can't argue with you because there's no logic in your argument.

[34Celtic]

-= original quote snipped =-



Seriously...usually people have some basis for their assertions...

Have you seen the command and poise Hughes and Clippard have shown in their starts? I don't know, I just think if the Mets had Karstens or Rasner instead of Maine nobody would really see a difference. Both of them have proven that when given the chance they have the ability to equal John Maine.

Pitching in the National League is a lot easier. I'm not saying the talent isn't there. But when you have a DH there are a lot less holes to pitch around. In the NL you can work around a lineup and go after the pitchers spot a few times a game.