Game #73: OKC @ Clippers Tuesday 3/21 7:30PM

[NickP]

Absolute disaster of a game even beyond PG's injury.

Marcus Morris: 3-10 (1-6 from three), no defense as usual, still played 30 minutes. Couldn't even be bothered to set a screen for Kawhi. But at least his plus/minus barely managed to be positive again, so all is well!

Remind me again why Frank isn't on the hot seat for making the NBA equivalent of the Herschel Walker trade?

Thou shall not question the +/-. For it is gospel.

[Ballings7]

Not sure why but have a feeling this team is going to win the next one against OKC..

Losing PG is a gut punch.. like the worst time too.. but will get up, and go forward! Team still has a good stable of horses to go out with.

I mean it. : )

[Dynamix]

Absolute disaster of a game even beyond PG's injury.

Marcus Morris: 3-10 (1-6 from three), no defense as usual, still played 30 minutes. Couldn't even be bothered to set a screen for Kawhi. But at least his plus/minus barely managed to be positive again, so all is well!

Remind me again why Frank isn't on the hot seat for making the NBA equivalent of the Herschel Walker trade?

Thou shall not question the +/-. For it is gospel.

I just hope Mook's +/- won't take too much of a hit now that PG is out. The rest of the team better rally around keeping him in the positive.

[esqtvd]

Absolute disaster of a game even beyond PG's injury.

Marcus Morris: 3-10 (1-6 from three), no defense as usual, still played 30 minutes. Couldn't even be bothered to set a screen for Kawhi. But at least his plus/minus barely managed to be positive again, so all is well!

Remind me again why Frank isn't on the hot seat for making the NBA equivalent of the Herschel Walker trade?

Thou shall not question the +/-. For it is gospel.

I just hope Mook's +/- won't take too much of a hit now that PG is out. The rest of the team better rally around keeping him in the positive.

What we need most now is for T-Mann to improve his team-worst minus-3.1 this month.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?Month=6&TeamID=1610612746&dir=A&sort=PLUS_MINUS

[Dynamix]

I remember a simpler time, when we hardly ever mentioned +/-, and the constant talking point around these threads was Zu taking some of Trez's minutes. Not all of them, of course, because Trez and Lou had a good thing going and took us to the playoffs before Kawhi and PG even got here. Just some of those minutes, every now and then, in case we might've actually needed Zu to be ready to step up in the playoffs, without feeling completely lost in the 4th quarter. But nope, Doc wouldn't have any of it, and certain posters wouldn't either.

Fast forward a few years, and now Zu is "our rock", while the former 6MOTY is on his way out of the league, because not even Doc will play him any more. Funny how things turn out sometimes.

[esqtvd]

I remember a simpler time, when we hardly ever mentioned +/-, and the constant talking point around these threads was Zu taking some of Trez's minutes. Not all of them, of course, because Trez and Lou had a good thing going and took us to the playoffs before Kawhi and PG even got here. Just some of those minutes, every now and then, in case we might've actually needed Zu to be ready to step up in the playoffs, without feeling completely lost in the 4th quarter. But nope, Doc wouldn't have any of it, and certain posters wouldn't either.

Fast forward a few years, and now Zu is "our rock", while the former 6MOTY is on his way out of the league, because not even Doc will play him any more. Funny how things turn out sometimes.

Why are you rehashing this old garbage? Mann's plus/minus of late IS concerning. Worst on the team.

Actually, the problem was Zu's stamina. 24 minutes was a stretch, and if you recall, he still struggled THIS season when his workload increased past that.

https://www.ocregister.com/2023/01/15/clippers-aware-of-ivica-zubacs-usage-lack-of-production/

Also, if you recall, Trezz did win SIXTH MAN OF THE YEAR. After months off when COVID hit, he got out of shape and returned to the Bubble a shadow of himself after the death of his grandmother, whom he called MOM. It's not necessary to spit on the man.

[Dynamix]

I never spit on Trez, actually gave him props, for a time he was the player I enjoyed watching the most. He definitely wasn't to blame for the bubble, Doc was the one that played him too much, just like he enabled all his bad habbits that eventually caught up with him.

Only brought that up because sometimes even casual fans have the right to be obsessed about certain players getting too many minutes. Just like with Avery Bradley, before the FO mercifully stepped in. I'm guessing they tried the same with Mook, but couldn't find any takers.

It's not even a Mann vs. Mook issue, they're playing different positions. Mann could easily take some minutes away from Russ, especially in the 4th, and there should have been an actual competition between Mook and RoCo throughout the season, not just have one of them as a locked starter, while the other one is only thrown out there when we're desperate.

Yes, the casual fans will rely on the eye test more than whatever metric fits the narrative best at a certain moment. No, Mann isn't a perfect player and has had his fair share of struggles, especially when being bounced around between different lineups. Not everyone has the privilege to share most of their minutes with Kawhi and PG.

All I know is that Mann more often than not brings a ton of energy, just like last night, before that shady ref went on a power trip. His absence was definitely missed for the rest of the game. Meanwhile, Mook getting tossed against Golden State (or when he was out for a bunch of games we happened to win) didn't exactly hurt our chances.

I'm not going to sit through every single posession to try and make sense of exactly who Mann/Mook play with or against. Like I said, different positions and lineups. You're the one that keeps bringing up +/- (other than as a joke, the way everyone else does) like it's some Holy Grail that trumps everything. Not saying it's not a meaningful stat, just that you could put me out there next to Kawhi, I'll take a couple seconds to tie my shoes, he gets a steal and a dunk, and we both get +2. That's it.

And for the record, I do think Mook is actually trying his best out there, sometimes even looks decent, and him being out of the rotation wouldn't magically turn us into a contender. It's just that his tank seems running on empty, and it might be too late before Ty finally accepts it.

But hey, looking forward to being proven wrong on this matter. We could definitely use every single player overachieving right about now.

[esqtvd]

I never spit on Trez, actually gave him props, for a time he was the player I enjoyed watching the most. He definitely wasn't to blame for the bubble, Doc was the one that played him too much, just like he enabled all his bad habbits that eventually caught up with him.

Only brought that up because sometimes even casual fans have the right to be obsessed about certain players getting too many minutes. Just like with Avery Bradley, before the FO mercifully stepped in. I'm guessing they tried the same with Mook, but couldn't find any takers.

It's not even a Mann vs. Mook issue, they're playing different positions. Mann could easily take some minutes away from Russ, especially in the 4th, and there should have been an actual competition between Mook and RoCo throughout the season, not just have one of them as a locked starter, while the other one is only thrown out there when we're desperate.

Yes, the casual fans will rely on the eye test more than whatever metric fits the narrative best at a certain moment. No, Mann isn't a perfect player and has had his fair share of struggles, especially when being bounced around between different lineups. Not everyone has the privilege to share most of their minutes with Kawhi and PG.

All I know is that Mann more often than not brings a ton of energy, just like last night, before that shady ref went on a power trip. His absence was definitely missed for the rest of the game. Meanwhile, Mook getting tossed against Golden State (or when he was out for a bunch of games we happened to win) didn't exactly hurt our chances.

I'm not going to sit through every single posession to try and make sense of exactly who Mann/Mook play with or against. Like I said, different positions and lineups. You're the one that keeps bringing up +/- (other than as a joke, the way everyone else does) like it's some Holy Grail that trumps everything. Not saying it's not a meaningful stat, just that you could put me out there next to Kawhi, I'll take a couple seconds to tie my shoes, he gets a steal and a dunk, and we both get +2. That's it.

And for the record, I do think Mook is actually trying his best out there, sometimes even looks decent, and him being out of the rotation wouldn't magically turn us into a contender. It's just that his tank seems running on empty, and it might be too late before Ty finally accepts it.

But hey, looking forward to being proven wrong on this matter. We could definitely use every single player overachieving right about now.

Not a Holy Grail but a stat that tells us what's working and what's not working more than any other stat. And in the other thread, I said the same thing, that playing with PG or KL is gonna lift your plus/minus. Also noted is that for his $16M salary, Morris is a gross disappointment. Ty is just trying to mine him for useful minutes that don't kill us out there.

And by all indications, if KL and PG wanted Mann or RoCo out there as starters with them, they would be. If they wanted Mook buried, he would be.

And BTW, Batum is slumping lately, also as maxed out as Mook is. I remember Barkley saying that when you get older, you can still have a good game but it can take you a week to recover. Batum has been struggling since he played 37 minutes EIGHT GAMES AGO, shooting 33%/32% and near the bottom in plus/minus.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?LastNGames=7&TeamID=1610612746&dir=A&sort=PLUS_MINUS

But hey, looking forward to being proven wrong on this matter. We could definitely use every single player overachieving right about now.

You're not wrong, it's just that the alternatives to Mook suck worse. Covington went 1-8 last night in only 7 minutes. Where every minute of every game counts now for playoff seeding, Ty can't afford the luxury.

Yes, I'm actually pumping T-Mann. He turns 27 in October. He's not a kid anymore and he starts making $10M+ next year. His time is now.

[TheBallsDeeper]

I just rewatched the end of the Clippers OKC game. Philly fan in Australia, but watch all teams. There are a few things I noticed that the Clippers could have done very differently. Let me know what you think.


1) Kawhi as a ball handler trying to shake a defender does not dribble close enough to the player setting a screen, giving the defender way too much room to get through. He needed to keep that gap much tighter.

2) Morris makes a bonehead decision with a few seconds to go. Kwahi is trying to shake Dort to get a shot up. Morris comes up to set a screen at the top of the key which should have given an opportunity for Kawhi to get free or leave him with Giddey. Morris fakes the screen and runs around Dort to get himself open for the pass from Kawhi so he can take the final shot. There is no way Kawhi was not taking the last shot, everyone knew it, Giddey didn't follow Morris's out it left Kawhi running into a three-on-one situation.

3) On the last play from OKC, Kawhi is guarding SGA on the perimeter on the inbound pass and allows an easy switch that gets Dort onto him before the ball gets inbounded- huge mistake. If the ball turns over Kawhi is standing right next to their best defender. Kawhi should have been guarding Giddey on the inbound, or at least stuck with SGA. He is Clipper's best chance for a steal, and Giddey and SGA can not defend him if it turns over. It either results in Kawhi on a fast break, or free up another player heading toward the basket with Dort scrambling to get over to Kawhi.

Probably would have been a different result with PG out there a an equal number one option on the last play, they would not have been able to go 3 on 1 to shut Kawhi down.

I Hope PG is healthy soon, Clippers should make it to the finals if everyone is healthy.

[NickP]

This is the magic of plus minus. Mook has frequent bad games. Ends up with 5 points and 2 rebounds. Yet ends up as a net plus.
Roco plays sporadically, yet is expected to produce at a high level when thrown in games, ends up with minus numbers.
If a sorry ass player like Morris can end up with a net plus playing along side of Kawhi said PG, imagine what someone like RoCo would end up with playing along side of Kawhi and PG? What if RoCo was actually starting and getting consistent minutes like Morris? Morris literally brings nothing to the game except a hot head. Roco brings BB IQ far higher than Morris.
So enough with this +/- nonsense when it comes to RoCo on a very small sample size. It's unfair to that player when he's not sure of his role consistently.

[madmaxmedia]

Taking everything in, I think RoCo should be playing more because none of our PF pieces (Morris, Nico, RoCo) should be playing 30+ MPG. They are all old and can't handle the workload anyway. But they should all be playing.

I think on the whole Batum is the best of the bunch and has the least weaknesses, but he's also the most likely to break down under heavy workload. They do all offer unique strengths, and it is really up to Ty to know when to use each piece. Sometimes that will mean none of them are in (but also on rare occasion 2 of them on the floor at the same time.)

Now Mann...If we could get fair value for Paul George in a trade for a point guard, I would do that in a heartbeat even though I still love PG (actually I'd trade Kawhi for fair value too.) Because then Mann gets to finally play his natural position with consistent starter minutes, and not have to jump around to different spots on the floor at different times which has got to be a challenge in itself. He's not a superstar, but he's definitely a great supporting starter and a winning player. I'm pretty sure that if he was able to start at his natural position and play consistent minutes, the plus/minus would much be closer to his general stats (which would also improve) and what we actually see him doing on court. His $10M salary would also be an absolute bargain in that scenario.

But he's not as good as PG or Kawhi so he doesn't start, but he is younger than them which is why I'd trade either of them (again only for fair value) as a way of re-configuring our roster and sort of bridging into the future. With all our discussions about running it again or breaking it all down, I think this is the middle path I would like. But it requires buy-in from whichever star we decide to keep, and that is beyond our control. I think it's more likely that PG would accept it than Kawhi though, also Kawhi might get better return in a trade.

So yeah, that's my offseason plan for the future. Trade Kawhi for the right return, Mann starts in his place, trade Morris/RoCo/expirings plus 1 or 2 picks for a needle mover. I think I could really enjoy watching that team, and not fear with every loss that our best years are well behind us.

Finally, there is a sort of karmic resolution in this scenario as well. Kawhi is ironically our best player and yet the one who put us in the overall roster position we are in now by forcing an overpay trade. Had he just joined without any preconditions, in all likelihood we would have kept SGA and still acquired additional pieces through other trades, and right now we would be in the fat middle of our championship window. Instead, trading him now is our best way of having some sort of sustainable future.

[Clemenza]

Seeing this tweet float around pretty heavy on my timeline this afternoon..

Read on Twitter

[esqtvd]

insult on top of injury

Read on Twitter

[Dynamix]

And the ref also apologized to Kawhi in the second half for missing that foul, so it's all good.

So to sum it all up, two less FTs for us, three extra FTs for them, plus the ejection of a player we could've really used out there. But hey, no one's perfect.

What a damn joke.

[esqtvd]

Seeing this tweet float around pretty heavy on my timeline this afternoon..

Read on Twitter

Not sure Ty--or anybody--can make this roster work. IMO he's getting max mileage out of mismatched pieces. The only semi-legit complaint is that RoCo should play more, but he's has done little to WIN more playing time.

Mann is already getting 21 mpg and not producing a whole lot despite ample playing time, and scapegoat/albatross Marcus Morris [$16M] is at least filling up some much-needed minutes while Batum at age 34 looks shot lately. And Ty is getting productive minutes out of castoff Westbrook [plus+4.0!] after the rest of the NBA failed to.

But most of all, at $40M+ each, Kawhi is not the leader the team needs and PG is not the complementary Scottie Pippen-type sidekick that Kawhi needs. There's not a lot left for Ty to try. A few more minutes for journeyman Robert Covington--especially when the more able Eric Gordon has slid in so well--is not going to move the meter.

[playaloc916]

I think Ty has done a decent job overall this season, but his peak seemed to be two years ago when the team made the WCF. If he does step down, I'm assuming Dan Craig becomes the interim head coach and FO will see how he does before they do a full search. I can't think of any available coaches that would be a significant improvement except for Udoka, but he comes with so much baggage that I don't think the FO would even interview him.

[esqtvd]

I think Ty has done a decent job overall this season, but his peak seemed to be two years ago when the team made the WCF. If he does step down, I'm assuming Dan Craig becomes the interim head coach and FO will see how he does before they do a full search. I can't think of any available coaches that would be a significant improvement except for Udoka, but he comes with so much baggage that I don't think the FO would even interview him.

Barring a miracle this year, it's back up the truck. New arena, new start, maybe even a new name.

[Dynamix]

Here's the clip, for whatever it's worth:

Don't see why anyone, either from the FO or Ty's camp, would leak something like this right now. So probably just that dude trying to pretend like he's plugged in by taking an educated guess about a potential move.

He might have his faults, but it sucks that Ty never got to coach a healthy roster for an entire playoff run.