MartinToVaught wrote:og15 wrote:You simply can't try and control everything in terms of preventing bad decisions.
Nobody's asking the NBA to control everything, just stop letting the Prestis and Ainges circumvent a rule that has already existed for decades.
If the league thought draft swaps were a problem, changes would have been made in the recent CBA.
I actually do not even think current consecutive pick rule is the best way, many times it just extends things longer.
The rule should be IMO:
1) Can't trade picks more than 5 seasons out
2) Can trade a maximum of three picks, either consecutive or alternating, have to choose one of the options.
3) If consecutive max of two picks, if alternating, max of 3 picks (1, 3 or 2, 4 or 3, 5 or 1, 3, 5)
Players contracts are no longer absurdly long, so the length should be 5 years, not 7 years, way too much changes with rosters these days in 7 years.
If you trade three picks in a row, you have to keep the next three, no trades allowed with the exception of draft night trade.
This way, if you want to trade first round picks for a star, you can trade your 2-3 firsts and instead of extending your traded picks over 4 or 6 seasons, you just get it over with in 2-3 years and move on.
esqtvd wrote:og15 wrote:esqtvd wrote:
Not sure about that. Trash teams like the Hornets and Pistons mean tons of empty seats when they're the visiting team. Perennial losers are bad for business. The Stepien rule forces them to keep a few lottery tickets and maybe get lucky.
Teams like the Hornets and Pistons are actually not the type of teams that trade a lot of draft picks though. Those teams generally have all their draft picks.
Teams who trade a lot of picks are usually teams trying to go from good to great and who already have other good player assets on the roster, the example you are giving are the exact opposite teams. The NBA does not like those teams because they are just usually trash despite all their draft picks.
That's why I said treadmill teams, lottery teams aren't treadmill teams. What we call treadmill teams are teams winning 45-50 ish games on a yearly basis but without having a real chance to be a true contender (Blazers with Lillard and McCollum), the league likes those teams because they are still good and fans still watch those teams and fill up arenas. Hornets and Pistons don't do that. Pistons have averaged like 24-25 wins for the past 4-5 years, have had all their draft picks and are trash. You think the NBA wouldn't rather have them have had no control over their draft but have been winning 40-45 games?
Or did you mean that fans do not like those teams? I might have misunderstood you. Fans of opposing teams, yes, they don't want to see your tanking team, and to be real, many fans of multiple year tanking teams, even if they say they want a tank instead of the treadmill don't actually go watch the games while the team tanks
MartinToVaught wrote:Except the bad moves don't hurt the billionaire owners or multi-millionaire GMs and players. The only ones hurting are the fans, who are going to be less invested if their team's situation is hopeless, which then becomes a problem for the league in general.
You simply can't try and control everything in terms of preventing bad decisions. The NBA already says you can't trade picks 7 years away and can't trade back to back picks. If you have those restrictions and still mess up, that's on you. A team has to control at least their pick 7 years from now, and still has to have at least 3 picks in the next 6 drafts even if they might have to swap.
Which of course then means they will probably spend more on free agency if they don't benefit from losing, which means they will generally at least be a possible winning team, and I assure you Silver and his people are not mad at that sort of situation compared to perennial lottery teams.
It's a valid argument, but all it proves is that even with the Stepien rule, organizations can STILL hopelessly suck. If not for the Stepien rule, there could be even more. And I don't think it's controversial to assert that perennially sucky franchises are bad for business, bad for the NBA brand, bad at the box office, bad for franchise evaluations and sale prices.
Like an eyesore house on your street. With no draft picks--or any decent chance at a high pick swapped away for years--a depleted franchise could really be a difficult sell.
Ted Stepien became a legend for his approach to the NBA Draft with the Cavs
Nowhere was Stepien more short-sighted than when it came to the NBA Draft. Desperate to win now, the Cavaliers would trade away future draft picks for players Stepien, Musselman, or Delaney thought could help the team immediately. The problem was they were very bad talent evaluators. To name one example of their misguided wheeling and dealing, the Cavaliers traded Bill Robinzine, along with two first round selections, to the Dallas Mavericks in exchange for Richard Washington and Jerome Whitehead. The team would play Whitehead in three games then waive him just 17 days after acquiring him while Washington averaged less than 10 points in 87 games over two seasons.
Since the Cavaliers had already traded a separate first-round pick to Dallas for Mike Bratz, the Mavericks now owned the team’s first-rounders in 1983, 1984, and 1986. The Cavaliers then owned just one first-round pick from then until 1987. At this point, league commissioner Larry O’Brien stepped in, announcing that the league was temporarily disallowing the Cavaliers from making any more trades.
A memo was distributed to every team stating that no trade with Cleveland could occur unless approved by league executive Joe Axelson. Nevertheless Axelson soon approved another Cleveland-Dallas transaction with Cleveland sending their 1985 first-rounder to Dallas for Geoff Huston. Axelson did note he was “obviously disturbed” by Cleveland’s decision-making though. Mavericks coach Dick Motta claimed, “I was afraid to go to lunch for fear that I’d miss a call from Cleveland.”
https://fansided.com/2022/06/30/nba-75-ted-stepien-almost-killed-cleveland-cavaliers/
I never argued against the Stepien rule, I'm saying we shouldn't be complaining that teams should also not be able to do swaps. The league has to protect its assets, but the league shouldn't have to hand hold franchises. If you do really stupid things, you should be allowed to feel the effects.
Of course what we actually see isn't teams stuck in being bad due to pick swaps, what we see is teams who stay in lottery but keep sucking year in a year out.
That's why the NBA has made rules and has done things to address tanking in their CBA but have not done anything to address pick swaps. The reason is that it is consistent tanking that has produced their garbage unwatchable teams.
The Pistons have been trash for a long time:
2019: 15th, 45th
2020: 7th
2021: 1st, 37th, 42nd, 52nd
2022: 5th, 46th
2023: 5th, 31st
This season they will have 5th and 54th
If they are trash next year again, that will be 4 seasons (2020-2024) with 4 top 5 picks (one 7th) and a total of 5 1sts and 6 2nds with nothing to show.
The Hornets have had a first round pick they kept in 8/10 past seasons. Past 5 years they have had 12, 3, 11, 13 (traded draft night) and 15, 2. Two top 3 picks for them, even better.
Now there's some luck here. Pistons keep falling out of top 3. If they got Wemby it changes their trajectory, though how well they can actually build something great around him based on recent history is unknown, but questionable.
