The Clipper General Board w/Random Thoughts, Youth Development, Ex Clippers Shinin', etc. Extravaganza

[MartinToVaught]

You have to give up something to get something.

But what we did was give up everything to get nothing. PG was and is a career loser who wasn't even worth half of that trade on the day it was made, let alone now.

The trade's defenders have always coped by pretending the trade was for Kawhi too, but even if we accept that logic, Kawhi hasn't actually done anything in a Clipper uniform to justify it either.

NOBODY knows what's going to happen 6 years down the road.

This goes both ways and is ultimately why you should never gut your whole future just to trade for one player.

And Ballmer thought he could spend his way out of any 213 complications until his fellow owners AMBUSHED him with the new CBA.

And he was already foolish for thinking that way even before the new CBA. Just look at how Mark Cuban wasted most of Dirk's career trying to do the exact same thing. Spend, spend, spend, pile on "big names" regardless of fit, age, or how good they actually were, and then he couldn't understand why they'd always flame out in the playoffs. The one year they actually won with Dirk is when Cuban finally stopped trying to buy a title and just built a real team around him that made sense. He then went back to the old star-chasing and wasted the rest of Dirk's career. Same thing with Daryl Morey - his strategy of chasing instant gratification with big names has led to his teams never winning anything ever. I don't give Ballmer a free pass on being "ambushed" by the new CBA when his original plan wasn't going to work anyway.

[esqtvd]

You have to give up something to get something.

But what we did was give up everything to get nothing. PG was and is a career loser who wasn't even worth half of that trade on the day it was made, let alone now.

The trade's defenders have always coped by pretending the trade was for Kawhi too, but even if we accept that logic, Kawhi hasn't actually done anything in a Clipper uniform to justify it either.

That's not accurate or honest. It WAS for both PG and KL. Nobody believes otherwise. Not even you, lol.

NOBODY knows what's going to happen 6 years down the road.

That's right. And it's been SIX years, and OKC was NOT a contender for the first four. Ballmer was in a hurry. It's his team and his money, and you can't blame him.

This goes both ways and is ultimately why you should never gut your whole future just to trade for one player.

TWO players. Let's not pretend otherwise. And Ballmer thought he could buy his way out of it if it went sour. He was right except for the CBA.

And he was already foolish for thinking that way even before the new CBA. Just look at how Mark Cuban wasted most of Dirk's career trying to do the exact same thing. Spend, spend, spend, pile on "big names" regardless of fit, age, or how good they actually were, and then he couldn't understand why they'd always flame out in the playoffs. The one year they actually won with Dirk is when Cuban finally stopped trying to buy a title and just built a real team around him that made sense. He then went back to the old star-chasing and wasted the rest of Dirk's career. Same thing with Daryl Morey - his strategy of chasing instant gratification with big names has led to his teams never winning anything ever. I don't give Ballmer a free pass on being "ambushed" by the new CBA when his original plan wasn't going to work anyway.

You knew what nobody else in Clipper Nation and the entire NBA universe didn't. OK, fine. We heard that every single day of the last six years. Except of course, when they we were winning.

The fact remains that OKC had 3 unbearable crap years leading up to the present. That is the argument, and the reminder. Ballmer was not up for The Process, which pretty much hasn't worked anywhere anyway. For every OKC that are a half-dozen who are on Year 20 of their 5-year rebuild plan. Even the Lakers were horrible until they pulled the plug on The Process, lucked into LeBron, and emptied the cupboard for a gimpy Anthony Davis.

The only recent repeat champion has been GSW, who had #7 pick Steph Curry transform into a top 20 all-time player, and then spent and spent and spent to keep their team together. Don't tell us it couldn't work. It did.

https://hoopswire.com/warriors-already-have-largest-payroll-in-nba-history/

[MartinToVaught]

That's not accurate or honest. It WAS for both PG and KL. Nobody believes otherwise. Not even you, lol.

The trade was quite literally for PG only. Kawhi signed as a free agent. What is actually inaccurate and dishonest is to pretend the terms of the deal weren't what they were so you can feel better about it.

A competent front office would have either convinced Kawhi to be patient (or, better yet, to buy in to their longterm plan) or called his bluff. Our front office telegraphed their desperation before that free agency period even began by having Frank start following Kawhi around all playoffs like a lost puppy, which I was cringing at while it was happening. Both Kawhi and OKC saw how obviously desperate the Clippers were acting and took full advantage of it.

The entire process was a disasterclass in asset management, negotiation, and understanding leverage that there is simply no excuse for in a modern professional sport. Any franchise that cared about winning would have fired the entire front office years ago. Then again, they would have never hired yet another failed coach to cosplay as a GM in the first place.

That's right.

Well, no, "who knows what's going to happen in x years" is not a valid excuse for a front office. It's a fundamental part of their job to evaluate the players they have, plan for the future, and anticipate what could happen next. If every time they get it wrong can be excused away as "hindsight," then there's no point in having a front office to begin with. Any owner could just glance at Basketball Reference for five seconds themselves, make trades based purely on what's happening right now and dismiss all criticism as "hindsight" when they go wrong.

The only recent repeat champion has been GSW, who had #7 pick Steph Curry transform into a top 20 all-time player, and then spent and spent and spent to keep their team together. Don't tell us it couldn't work. Because it did.

The Warriors drafted and developed Curry, drafted and developed Klay (and refused to trade him for Kevin Love when everyone was screaming at them to), drafted and developed Draymond. They didn't trade them all for 35-year-olds to "win now" with Monta Ellis.

They also got extremely lucky with Curry's ankle making his first big contract a relative bargain, and then got lucky again with a once-in-a-lifetime salary cap spike that allowed them to sign Durant and only have to give up Harrison Barnes. You've been a fan for long enough to know that the Clippers will never even get a fraction of that luck. Realistically, trying to paper over every flaw with money and "names" would have gone as well for us as it did for Cuban and Morey, or the current Suns for that matter.

[esqtvd]

close enough I guess
next year, FIRST!

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[Clemenza]

That's not accurate or honest. It WAS for both PG and KL. Nobody believes otherwise. Not even you, lol.

The trade was quite literally for PG only. Kawhi signed as a free agent. What is actually inaccurate and dishonest is to pretend the terms of the deal weren't what they were so you can feel better about it.

A competent front office would have either convinced Kawhi to be patient (or, better yet, to buy in to their longterm plan) or called his bluff. Our front office telegraphed their desperation before that free agency period even began by having Frank start following Kawhi around all playoffs like a lost puppy, which I was cringing at while it was happening. Both Kawhi and OKC saw how obviously desperate the Clippers were acting and took full advantage of it.

The entire process was a disasterclass in asset management, negotiation, and understanding leverage that there is simply no excuse for in a modern professional sport. Any franchise that cared about winning would have fired the entire front office years ago. Then again, they would have never hired yet another failed coach to cosplay as a GM in the first place.

That's right.

Well, no, "who knows what's going to happen in x years" is not a valid excuse for a front office. It's a fundamental part of their job to evaluate the players they have, plan for the future, and anticipate what could happen next. If every time they get it wrong can be excused away as "hindsight," then there's no point in having a front office to begin with. Any owner could just glance at Basketball Reference for five seconds themselves, make trades based purely on what's happening right now and dismiss all criticism as "hindsight" when they go wrong.

The only recent repeat champion has been GSW, who had #7 pick Steph Curry transform into a top 20 all-time player, and then spent and spent and spent to keep their team together. Don't tell us it couldn't work. Because it did.

The Warriors drafted and developed Curry, drafted and developed Klay (and refused to trade him for Kevin Love when everyone was screaming at them to), drafted and developed Draymond. They didn't trade them all for 35-year-olds to "win now" with Monta Ellis.

They also got extremely lucky with Curry's ankle making his first big contract a relative bargain, and then got lucky again with a once-in-a-lifetime salary cap spike that allowed them to sign Durant and only have to give up Harrison Barnes. You've been a fan for long enough to know that the Clippers will never even get a fraction of that luck. Realistically, trying to paper over every flaw with money and "names" would have gone as well for us as it did for Cuban and Morey, or the current Suns for that matter.

On paper the trade was PG for SGA and the hundred picks that we gave them, but Kawhi forced the trade, said he wasn't coming if the trade didn't go down, so in essence, the trade was for Kawhi & PG and that's why the list of demands was so outrageous. But like you said, we just needed a more seasoned hardball GM for the Kawhi courtship and acquisition. L. Frank played the entire thing out like a Kawhi groupie instead of a guy that wanted Kawhi, but still had to do what's best for the team overall. He couldn't join the Lakers and load manage they way he does especially if ironman Bron is your teammate. Laker fans would scream bloody murder at his load management and Bron and Klutch Sports would have the perfect scapegoat if losses were to occur. He would've been under the microscope and under the gun 24/7/365 if he was on the Lakers. A stronger GM would've had Kawhi come to LA and if things don't look right we trade for a star at the trade deadline... Too easy.

Honestly what really stung post trade was that there was no leadership from Kawhi or PG. They weren't the guys to rally the troops for battle. When Kawhi went down during the Jazz playoffs series and sat away from the team by sitting way up in the luxury booths that said a lot about the love, leadership, and cohesiveness on the team. And no accountability. They weren't all that likeable and the city never fully embraced them. Kawhi wouldn't talk and PG said all the wrong things. Even Laker fans loved Blake during his early years and they loved the team with rookie SGA battling the Warriors and taking them to six games in the playoffs. All my Laker friends verbally said out loud how they liked the grittiness and fight of that 2019 team against the Dubs. The team's connection with the fans and city is much improved now with Harden being a better face of the team. Having a new shiny arena helps out a ton too.

[MartinToVaught]

Honestly what really stung post trade was that there was no leadership from Kawhi or PG. They weren't the guys to rally the troops for battle. When Kawhi went down during the Jazz playoffs series and sat away from the team by sitting way up in the luxury booths that said a lot about the love, leadership, and cohesiveness on the team. And no accountability.

The lack of accountability is what really stings. I don't know how OKC/Shai's success isn't lighting a fire under Ballmer's ass to trade Kawhi out of here ASAP. Kawhi screwed this organization for years by making demands before he even got here and he's given us nothing in return. This was the first playoff series he's actually played in half a decade and he only resembled the superstar we gutted our team for in one game out of seven. Any franchise with an iota of dignity would trade him this summer. Enough is enough.

Harden's not much better in my book after quitting in Game 7 and then refusing to do interviews. This team needs to start having some pride and stop being a doormat for aging diva "stars."

[esqtvd]

That's not accurate or honest. It WAS for both PG and KL. Nobody believes otherwise. Not even you, lol.

The trade was quite literally for PG only. Kawhi signed as a free agent. What is actually inaccurate and dishonest is to pretend the terms of the deal weren't what they were so you can feel better about it.

A competent front office would have either convinced Kawhi to be patient (or, better yet, to buy in to their longterm plan) or called his bluff. Our front office telegraphed their desperation before that free agency period even began by having Frank start following Kawhi around all playoffs like a lost puppy, which I was cringing at while it was happening. Both Kawhi and OKC saw how obviously desperate the Clippers were acting and took full advantage of it.

The entire process was a disasterclass in asset management, negotiation, and understanding leverage that there is simply no excuse for in a modern professional sport. Any franchise that cared about winning would have fired the entire front office years ago. Then again, they would have never hired yet another failed coach to cosplay as a GM in the first place.

That's right.

Well, no, "who knows what's going to happen in x years" is not a valid excuse for a front office. It's a fundamental part of their job to evaluate the players they have, plan for the future, and anticipate what could happen next. If every time they get it wrong can be excused away as "hindsight," then there's no point in having a front office to begin with. Any owner could just glance at Basketball Reference for five seconds themselves, make trades based purely on what's happening right now and dismiss all criticism as "hindsight" when they go wrong.

The only recent repeat champion has been GSW, who had #7 pick Steph Curry transform into a top 20 all-time player, and then spent and spent and spent to keep their team together. Don't tell us it couldn't work. Because it did.

The Warriors drafted and developed Curry, drafted and developed Klay (and refused to trade him for Kevin Love when everyone was screaming at them to), drafted and developed Draymond. They didn't trade them all for 35-year-olds to "win now" with Monta Ellis.

They also got extremely lucky with Curry's ankle making his first big contract a relative bargain, and then got lucky again with a once-in-a-lifetime salary cap spike that allowed them to sign Durant and only have to give up Harrison Barnes. You've been a fan for long enough to know that the Clippers will never even get a fraction of that luck. Realistically, trying to paper over every flaw with money and "names" would have gone as well for us as it did for Cuban and Morey, or the current Suns for that matter.

On paper the trade was PG for SGA and the hundred picks that we gave them, but Kawhi forced the trade, said he wasn't coming if the trade didn't go down, so in essence, the trade was for Kawhi & PG and that's why the list of demands was so outrageous. But like you said, we just needed a more seasoned hardball GM for the Kawhi courtship and acquisition. L. Frank played the entire thing out like a Kawhi groupie instead of a guy that wanted Kawhi, but still had to do what's best for the team overall. He couldn't join the Lakers and load manage they way he does especially if ironman Bron is your teammate. Laker fans would scream bloody murder at his load management and Bron and Klutch Sports would have the perfect scapegoat if losses were to occur. He would've been under the microscope and under the gun 24/7/365 if he was on the Lakers. A stronger GM would've had Kawhi come to LA and if things don't look right we trade for a star at the trade deadline... Too easy.

Y'all keep punking the wrong villain. BALLMER and his buddy JERRY WEST created 213. Doc and L-Frank were just following orders to make it happen.

Aaaaaaand, they did make it happen. The meetings with Kawhi happened at DOC'S MALIBU HOME, not some shttty hotel room. And Frank was UNDER ORDERS not to scotch the OKC deal. The deal was DEAD unless Shai was in it.

No Shai, No Kawhi. That's a given. The rest was details.

[Clemenza]

The trade was quite literally for PG only. Kawhi signed as a free agent. What is actually inaccurate and dishonest is to pretend the terms of the deal weren't what they were so you can feel better about it.

A competent front office would have either convinced Kawhi to be patient (or, better yet, to buy in to their longterm plan) or called his bluff. Our front office telegraphed their desperation before that free agency period even began by having Frank start following Kawhi around all playoffs like a lost puppy, which I was cringing at while it was happening. Both Kawhi and OKC saw how obviously desperate the Clippers were acting and took full advantage of it.

The entire process was a disasterclass in asset management, negotiation, and understanding leverage that there is simply no excuse for in a modern professional sport. Any franchise that cared about winning would have fired the entire front office years ago. Then again, they would have never hired yet another failed coach to cosplay as a GM in the first place.


Well, no, "who knows what's going to happen in x years" is not a valid excuse for a front office. It's a fundamental part of their job to evaluate the players they have, plan for the future, and anticipate what could happen next. If every time they get it wrong can be excused away as "hindsight," then there's no point in having a front office to begin with. Any owner could just glance at Basketball Reference for five seconds themselves, make trades based purely on what's happening right now and dismiss all criticism as "hindsight" when they go wrong.


The Warriors drafted and developed Curry, drafted and developed Klay (and refused to trade him for Kevin Love when everyone was screaming at them to), drafted and developed Draymond. They didn't trade them all for 35-year-olds to "win now" with Monta Ellis.

They also got extremely lucky with Curry's ankle making his first big contract a relative bargain, and then got lucky again with a once-in-a-lifetime salary cap spike that allowed them to sign Durant and only have to give up Harrison Barnes. You've been a fan for long enough to know that the Clippers will never even get a fraction of that luck. Realistically, trying to paper over every flaw with money and "names" would have gone as well for us as it did for Cuban and Morey, or the current Suns for that matter.

On paper the trade was PG for SGA and the hundred picks that we gave them, but Kawhi forced the trade, said he wasn't coming if the trade didn't go down, so in essence, the trade was for Kawhi & PG and that's why the list of demands was so outrageous. But like you said, we just needed a more seasoned hardball GM for the Kawhi courtship and acquisition. L. Frank played the entire thing out like a Kawhi groupie instead of a guy that wanted Kawhi, but still had to do what's best for the team overall. He couldn't join the Lakers and load manage they way he does especially if ironman Bron is your teammate. Laker fans would scream bloody murder at his load management and Bron and Klutch Sports would have the perfect scapegoat if losses were to occur. He would've been under the microscope and under the gun 24/7/365 if he was on the Lakers. A stronger GM would've had Kawhi come to LA and if things don't look right we trade for a star at the trade deadline... Too easy.

Y'all keep punking the wrong villain. BALLMER and his buddy JERRY WEST created 213. Doc and L-Frank were just following orders to make it happen.

Aaaaaaand, they did make it happen. The meetings with Kawhi happened at DOC'S MALIBU HOME, not some shttty hotel room. And Frank was UNDER ORDERS not to scotch the OKC deal. The deal was DEAD unless Shai was in it.

No Shai, No Kawhi. That's a given. The rest was details.

We all know Ballmer was behind everything, but it was still up to L. Frank & Doc to get it done. They had to somehow get into the head of Kawhi & Uncle Dennis a lot better than they did. Presti robbed us in broard daylight because Kawhi had a gun to the heads of L. Frank & Doc. A player talking to other teams after a championship let alone leaving altogether was unheard of so he wasn't going back to Toronto. And he couldn't load manage like he wanted to with the Lakers and under LeBron so how much leverage did he actually have? Ballmer told them to get her done, but doing whatever Kawhi told them to do was nasty work from a front office standpoint. They should move Kawhi if a solid deal presents itself this offseason. The fanbase will want him gone if OKC wins it all anyway.

[MartinToVaught]

https://old.reddit.com/r/LAClippers/comments/1ktblyf/marcus_morris_calling_out_ty_lue_for_being_a/

Ouch. Even Marcus Morris knows how overrated Lue is, and he was the one getting 30 guaranteed minutes per game from Lue while he was declining into one of the worst players in the NBA.

[esqtvd]

Amen.


https://old.reddit.com/r/LAClippers/comments/1ktblyf/marcus_morris_calling_out_ty_lue_for_being_a/

sakata32
2 points 10 hours ago

Yes I do. Fi, Jerome, Scrubb, Oturu all out of the league. No one could develop them. Keon Johnson? I hear no one talking about him and he was a first round pick. Sure some players doing ok on teams that didn't make the playoffs. There's a way smaller leash for young players when you're trying to make the playoffs in a tight West. But there's no one crazy talented that we missed out on. The worst was maybe diabate and he's a backup at best. 90% of the youth has been trash.

[esqtvd]

On paper the trade was PG for SGA and the hundred picks that we gave them, but Kawhi forced the trade, said he wasn't coming if the trade didn't go down, so in essence, the trade was for Kawhi & PG and that's why the list of demands was so outrageous. But like you said, we just needed a more seasoned hardball GM for the Kawhi courtship and acquisition. L. Frank played the entire thing out like a Kawhi groupie instead of a guy that wanted Kawhi, but still had to do what's best for the team overall. He couldn't join the Lakers and load manage they way he does especially if ironman Bron is your teammate. Laker fans would scream bloody murder at his load management and Bron and Klutch Sports would have the perfect scapegoat if losses were to occur. He would've been under the microscope and under the gun 24/7/365 if he was on the Lakers. A stronger GM would've had Kawhi come to LA and if things don't look right we trade for a star at the trade deadline... Too easy.

Y'all keep punking the wrong villain. BALLMER and his buddy JERRY WEST created 213. Doc and L-Frank were just following orders to make it happen.

Aaaaaaand, they did make it happen. The meetings with Kawhi happened at DOC'S MALIBU HOME, not some shttty hotel room. And Frank was UNDER ORDERS not to scotch the OKC deal. The deal was DEAD unless Shai was in it.

No Shai, No Kawhi. That's a given. The rest was details.

We all know Ballmer was behind everything, but it was still up to L. Frank & Doc to get it done. They had to somehow get into the head of Kawhi & Uncle Dennis a lot better than they did. Presti robbed us in broard daylight because Kawhi had a gun to the heads of L. Frank & Doc. A player talking to other teams after a championship let alone leaving altogether was unheard of so he wasn't going back to Toronto. And he couldn't load manage like he wanted to with the Lakers and under LeBron so how much leverage did he actually have? Ballmer told them to get her done, but doing whatever Kawhi told them to do was nasty work from a front office standpoint. They should move Kawhi if a solid deal presents itself this offseason. The fanbase will want him gone if OKC wins it all anyway.

No Shai, no Kawhi. The rest was deck chairs. When the boss says "get 'er done," you do. You don't quibble and lose the big fish or it's your ass.

Look at the Harden trade. L-Frank was doing his best to squeeze Philly but Ballmer stepped in and did the deal himself, over Frank's head. That's how these things work. I mean look at this guy, lol

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[Ballings7]

https://www.fiba.basketball/en/news/norman-powell-commits-to-representing-jamaica

Norm Powell to play for Jamaica this summer it seems

Also Harden made the all-nba third team .. got some all-nba team clips luv : )

[Captain Ballmer]

https://www.fiba.basketball/en/news/norman-powell-commits-to-representing-jamaica

Norm Powell to play for Jamaica this summer it seems

Also Harden made the all-nba third team .. got some all-nba team clips luv : )

Also Zu got 15 all-nba 3rd team votes. He was like 19th guy based on total score (first 15 player selected to All-nba). Zubac all-star, All nba season should be a target for us next season

[Ballings7]

Yeah Zubac definitely got some good recognition for all-nba team this year..

https://www.si.com/nba/2025-all-nba-teams-announced-full-list-of-all-three-teams

Towns being in NYK got him on there, if he was on Minnesota still, betting you he doesn't make it.. defensively being the equalizer where Zubac should of been on there.

Not to say KAT isn't a quality player, but he's just not the defender or rebounder Zubac is. Zubac isn't as versatile offensively as KAT, but Zubac's numbers, efficiency, underrated passing, and production overall compensate to match up well enough IMO.

[Clemenza]

Build around Zubac!

[esqtvd]

lol--Ty!

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[esqtvd]

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