Don't trade Camby for a SF, trade..

[Clip34life]

I think the Clippers can package players like Thornton, Telfair, some expirings and a future first for any of the following SFs. Would we want any of them for that package?

Targets
Caron Butler (game has regressed, 29 years old)
Trevor Ariza (overpaid, chucker, overrated defense)
Josh Howard (head case, game has fallen off the map)
Tayshaun Prince (injured, but expiring next year)
Turkeyglue (Overpaid, one-dimensional)

Darkhorse
Luol Deng (overpaid but young...)
Boris Diaw (fat and lazy but would be a good point forward who can fill up the stat sheet)
Stephen Jackson (He is insane but he was great together with BD)
Kevin Martin (great shooter but what else???)

I Wish
Gerald Wallace (I don't see how we could get this guy for anything less than Kaman or some package revolving around Gordon. I think he would have almost as much impact on this team as Lebron would to be honest. Sigh.)

And Finally...
Blake Griffin (Blake could potentially develop into a hybrid SF/PF considering his amazing athleticism. This would change our target players as you can imagine. I believe Dunleavy will experiment with this once Blake comes back and it will inform our decision as to what type of player to go after)

[mkwest]

I totally agree on the thought that Dunleavy will likely play Griffin at the 3 on occasion. We're stacked at 4 & 5, so that combination can work during some stretches depending on the match-up. If he can show an improved shot, then that just makes it more easier to consider.

Right now, I don't feel comfortable trading Camby for Butler. Some of it is personal (he's played too hard and brought so much to the table to end up being sent to this year's Wizards team) and some of it is based on what's best for this team (chemistry, leadership, size, etc.). I think if we were to trade Camby right now, the team as a whole would regress. Everybody on this team looks up to him, he's also able to keep Baron in check. I can't a think of a big his age that is currently doing what he does. He said that he wants to finish his career here, and I'm kind of hoping that happens.

Of course we want to add LeBron or Joe Johnson, but we all know that it is not too likely to happen. It would be putting all of our eggs into one basket and leave us scrambling if things didn't go our way in FA. I do like the idea of adding Butler in a deal that does not involve Camby, such as the one you presented. We'd need a back up pg again, but we'd have a very solid rotation everywhere else. We still have our TE and pro-rated mle (if I'm not mistaken) as options to add a pg if it came to that.

[mkwest]

Another benefit of adding Butler (or similar SF) for expirings/pick and keeping Camby is that we would retain his bird rights and whatever free-agents remained from the trade, plus our MLE. If our expirirings expire, then we'd have to renounce them to make sign a decent player. If we wanted to bring one back after the fact, we'd only have the vet's minimum to lure them back in.

[Det the Threat]

Up till now i've been a supporter of trading Camby for an upgrade at SF or something else.
And even as this might still be a good thing at the deadline, right now i'm also leaning towards keeping the old man.

He's been really good for us and we don't know when Blake finally comes back.

I also think this way because of Rasual Butler, who's becoming exactly what we need at the sf position. A guy who defends some, doesn't needs the ball on offense and is able to hit the long range jumper to create space for Kaman, Baron and later on Griffin.

Looking at your list, the only guy i'd want is Caron Butler, but he's also someone who needs the ball in hands to be effective and i'm not sure if that's the fit we need there. Ariza's a chucker, Prince is injured, Turkoglu way overpriced and Howard nowhere near where he's been during that finals run of the Mavs. Luol Deng's got a huge contract as well, Diaw's stinking it up in Charlotte, Jackson's old and still on a pretty hefty contract, Kevin Martin isn't a small forward and Gerald Wallace can't shoot to save his life.

That's why, right now, i wouldn't really think about adding an upgrade at small forward. I'd be looking to upgrade our biggest weakness, which is our bench.
We should get Blake back at some point this season and Smith/DJ are alright under the basket as back ups.
The thing we really lack is fire power off the bench. So that's why i'd really like to add a scoring combo guard who could give Baron and EJ some more breaks while also providing some scoring/three point shooting.

Those guys could probably even easier to be had, if we'd be alright with adding salary beyond this season. A guy like Leandro Barbosa isn't doing so great in Phoenix right now and the Suns are, as always, looking to shed some salary, so they can stay under the cap. They also have Dragic for his role, who's playing alright and is pretty cheap.

So maybe we coud do something like this:
Barbosa, Clark, T. Griffin for Thornton, R. Davis, Collins and Telfair
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.ph ... id=5378816

They save quite some money and we add some scoring off the bench.
We could even try to pry away a pick for taking on Barbosas contract.
Though, we only thilnk about it if we're alright to add nearly $7 mil for next season and give up our shot(which i don't see being all that great anyways) at one of those big name SF's.

What do you think?
Or do you have other ideas to upgrade our bench?

[Clip34life]

Up till now i've been a supporter of trading Camby for an upgrade at SF or something else.
And even as this might still be a good thing at the deadline, right now i'm also leaning towards keeping the old man.

He's been really good for us and we don't know when Blake finally comes back.

I also think this way because of Rasual Butler, who's becoming exactly what we need at the sf position. A guy who defends some, doesn't needs the ball on offense and is able to hit the long range jumper to create space for Kaman, Baron and later on Griffin.

Looking at your list, the only guy i'd want is Caron Butler, but he's also someone who needs the ball in hands to be effective and i'm not sure if that's the fit we need there. Ariza's a chucker, Prince is injured, Turkoglu way overpriced and Howard nowhere near where he's been during that finals run of the Mavs. Luol Deng's got a huge contract as well, Diaw's stinking it up in Charlotte, Jackson's old and still on a pretty hefty contract, Kevin Martin isn't a small forward and Gerald Wallace can't shoot to save his life.

That's why, right now, i wouldn't really think about adding an upgrade at small forward. I'd be looking to upgrade our biggest weakness, which is our bench.
We should get Blake back at some point this season and Smith/DJ are alright under the basket as back ups.
The thing we really lack is fire power off the bench. So that's why i'd really like to add a scoring combo guard who could give Baron and EJ some more breaks while also providing some scoring/three point shooting.

Those guys could probably even easier to be had, if we'd be alright with adding salary beyond this season. A guy like Leandro Barbosa isn't doing so great in Phoenix right now and the Suns are, as always, looking to shed some salary, so they can stay under the cap. They also have Dragic for his role, who's playing alright and is pretty cheap.

So maybe we coud do something like this:
Barbosa, Clark, T. Griffin for Thornton, R. Davis, Collins and Telfair
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.ph ... id=5378816

They save quite some money and we add some scoring off the bench.
We could even try to pry away a pick for taking on Barbosas contract.
Though, we only thilnk about it if we're alright to add nearly $7 mil for next season and give up our shot(which i don't see being all that great anyways) at one of those big name SF's.

What do you think?
Or do you have other ideas to upgrade our bench?

I like that Suns trade. I don't think Rasual is the solution at starting SF (I see him more as a 6th man) but that trades not bad and I think Clark could develop into a nice player.

[illastrate]

Here's an even better option, as posted by John Hollinger(yes, something positive for once):

The Heat can offer anyone the $951,066 he'll have left on his contract on trade-deadline day to take Wright off their hands, likely adding a sweetener for the trouble (for instance, either more cash or one of the two second-round picks they got from the Hornets on draft day last year). Any number of teams could pull off such a deal, with the prime suspects being the Clippers (a $3.3 million trade exception from the Zach Randolph deal and an owner who loves to make a buck) and the Grizzlies.

The added benefit of such a deal for Miami is a $2.8 million trade exception that they would carry into next year's trading season, giving the Heat an added means of loading up the roster following their expected free-agent splurge this summer.

We'd basically be getting D. Wright for free like we did Butler. Wright is the type of SF we need off the bench - plays D, rebounds, hustles, has 3pt range, mostly everything Thornton isn't. Heat fans like him: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=975496

[donemilio21]

L.A. Clippers : The Clippers are the team I carry the most personal interest in going into 2010 because of their distinctive situation. One way to think about the space they’ll probably have going into the off-season is that they are about $600,000 over having enough to max out a player with LBJ/Wade’s experience with the guys they have under contract, excluding Telfair’s player option. What makes the Clippers different from every other team is that they have space with long-term starters signed at four of the five positions and play in a market that should intrigue more than a few free agents. Unlike teams like Chicago, the Clippers do not really have many guys that they could move to create more space, since their 2010 salary is concentrated in a few players. If they can get a starting-quality SF, we could actually see two teams in LA that should be expected to do more than just make the playoffs for the next few seasons.
• Projected 2010 Salary [Baron Davis, Chris Kaman, Eric Gordon, Blake Griffin, Al Thornton, and Sebastian Telfair’s player option]:
• Projected cap room: $14.3M

I am against trading Camby at this point. Yes he'll be out at the end of the season (that is if we can get a max free agent, and have only veterans minimum to sign camby) but we cant get anyone who plays as good as Camby at this point.

I think Blake can play at SF but I wish we could get a guy like Gerald Wallace, Granger, Joe Johnson or LBJ. Maybe we will who knows

[jflipclip]

-snip-

Though it was a blowout, Wright didn't look so good against us Sunday afternoon. If at all, he's similar to Thornton in more ways than you think, IMO.

Anyways, I think Camby is too valuable to our team. He rebounds and blocks shots. He brings in some veteran leadership. He's just a solid, bright, and overall good guy to have around the team. If we were to trade him, it would have to be a move that would essentially put us out of the 2010 FA... annnnd with the way things are going now, I don't think we should make that move. Especially since we don't know who would fill in that void. DJ? Inconsistent, gets into foul trouble easily, sometimes nonexistent offensively. Craig Smith? Matchups would kill him. Blake Griffin? Who knows.

Backup PG and consistency at SF is what we need, but at the expense of Camby? No thanks. I think we'll survive with Telfair and Thornton/Butler, one or the other-- or even both, will blossom towards the end of the season, assuming we're in the playoffs/playoff hunt. Griffin is the question mark, but he shouldn't be liable for whether we trade Camby or not like other Clipper fans may believe.

[loflin3hree5ive]

The Clips are built very well IMO. Only deal I'd like to see Dunleavy explore is trading the TPE for more bench help.

[illastrate]

-snip-

Though it was a blowout, Wright didn't look so good against us Sunday afternoon. If at all, he's similar to Thornton in more ways than you think, IMO.

One game is not a good enough sample size. If he's a better defender and rebounder than Thornton, he's already got the advantage. If we can trade Thornton for a nice young PG on a rookie contract, all the better. Eric Maynor would've been a great pickup, but someone along the lines of a guy like that would be great.

[Det the Threat]

I'm not a huge fan of Wright's game and would rather just trade on of our two trade exceptions to NO for Devin Brown.

He could provide the scoring and long distance scoring we lack off the bench, while Wright's more of a small forward that provides some defense and nothing different then Thornton offensively.

[ClipperEric]

I'd be interested in:

1. Boris Diaw
2. Caron Butler
3. Gerald Wallace (but we'd have to give up too much for him.)

[DangerCurtis]

I agree a lot with Det about bolstering our bench as opposed to filling the SF position. I like the idea of trying to resign Camby and Butler next year and using the remaining money to fill up the bench. If you look at the starting five, assuming it'll be Davis, Gordon, Kaman, Griffin and Butler for next year, it's a pretty strong core. While bringing in a high scoring SF would be nice, it would ultimately detract from the other guys.

I think it's safe to assume that Gordon and Kaman will be around 20 PPG next year while the others (Griffin, Davis and Butler) are good for 10 to 15 PPG with the potential of any of those three to go off on a scoring terror on any given night.

And then, having Thornton, Camby, DJ, Telfair and some quality back up coming off the bench, this team could be very deadly next year.

I think this team really needs to focus on finding excellent defensive / good rebounding players in the offseason as opposed to players who can score.

[madmaxmedia]

If the goal is to maintain the current team and season, by all means keep Camby.

But if the goal is to significantly upgrade the team, Camby is an excellent chip to trade. The main position in need of upgrade is SF, unfortunately as others have pointed out the pickings are not necessarily great. There's no Pau Gasol out there waiting to be stolen for expiring contracts.

The other factor is that while we currently lack offensive firepower, finally getting Griffin in the lineup may go a long way towards helping this. If so, we don't need to make a SF trade in desperation. If Griffin is able to start living up to his draft position next year, then I agree we don't necessarily need to look for more scoring. I think offensive power is a current weakness on the team, one more offensive threat in the starting lineup would make for better shots opportunities for everyone.

I actually like TurkeyGlue a lot, his salary is not that high IMO, but contract length is a problem (reports of work ethic issues have been troubling though.) Thing is, I don't think he is a great fit with Baron. I would rather have distributor PG + last year's Turkoglu, than Baron (who is somewhat of a 1.5) + lesser SF.

I don't really see us being big players in FA, though maybe we could have a chance to steal someone who falls through the cracks after everyone blows their wad.

[Hooch20]

If we can sign LeBron or Wade in the offseason great. I really don't see this happening though. Getting Johson or Gay isn't worth losing out on Caron Butler and our depth next year.

Say we keep Camby next year and sign Johnson with our cap space. I don't see Camby signing for the vets minimum. I think Camby could easily bolt to the Lakers for a portion of the MLE. He'd then get to keep his family in town and he'd get to play for a championship.

Baron/Telfair
Gordon
Johnson/Thornton
Griffin
Kaman/Jordan

If we make the deal for Butler we most likely end up with a much deeper team. We have the chance to go over the cap to keep our expiring players and we get to keep our pick. We'd end up with a deeper team than we have this year. We'd also have the option of using the MLE to add to our core.

Baron/Telfair
Gordon/Rasual
Caron/Thornton
Griffin/Smith
Kaman/Jordan

I'll take the 2nd option every day of the week.

[donemilio21]

If the goal is to maintain the current team and season, by all means keep Camby.



I actually like TurkeyGlue a lot, his salary is not that high IMO, but contract length is a problem (reports of work ethic issues have been troubling though.) Thing is, I don't think he is a great fit with Baron. I would rather have distributor PG + last year's Turkoglu, than Baron (who is somewhat of a 1.5) + lesser SF.

I don't really see us being big players in FA, though maybe we could have a chance to steal someone who falls through the cracks after everyone blows their wad.

He'll be in Stojakovic situation in 2 years. He is already 31 and has a 5 year contract. He is going to fall out and not be able to compete in the NBA. And he is a terrible defender.

[DangerCurtis]

If we make the deal for Butler we most likely end up with a much deeper team. We have the chance to go over the cap to keep our expiring players and we get to keep our pick. We'd end up with a deeper team than we have this year. We'd also have the option of using the MLE to add to our core.

Baron/Telfair
Gordon/Rasual
Caron/Thornton
Griffin/Smith
Kaman/Jordan

I'll take the 2nd option every day of the week.

Assuming we can get Caron Butler, that is a very nice looking line up right there. Also throw in whatever draft picks we have for the 2010 - 2011 season, and we have a line up that would be solid for the next decade.

[loflin3hree5ive]

Since Utah is still in the tax, they would make ideal trade partners. Ronnie Brewer would be awesome but he might not be available in a salary dump. Maybe our 2010 pick top 10 protected and cash for Brewer could get the Clippers a stud off the bench like Ronnie? Since this Wesley Matthews kid is working out and doing it cheap, maybe it can.

[Det the Threat]

Why should we give them a draft pick when they're desperate to shed salary and we help them out?

The only way you do those deals is if you either just gut a guy like Brewer for "nothing"(TPE) or if you take on some more money and get another sweetener as well.

BTW: Brewer's an expiring contract and there's no way we should ever think about giving up a first round pick for a player on an expiring contract.

[illastrate]

Why should we give them a draft pick when they're desperate to shed salary and we help them out?

The only way you do those deals is if you either just gut a guy like Brewer for "nothing"(TPE) or if you take on some more money and get another sweetener as well.

BTW: Brewer's an expiring contract and there's no way we should ever think about giving up a first round pick for a player on an expiring contract.

Ronnie Brewer would be awesome, but we shouldn't have to give up anything for him. If anything, they'll throw in a 2nd rounder or cash for us to take Brewer off their hands.