LA Clippers (20-11) VS Utah (10-20)

[apet8945]

With DJ getting 19 rebounds and we still got smashed on the boards. I honestly don't know how we'd cope if we traded him.
I was happy to see Barnes have one of his better games.

We would do fine provided the players that we bring in do some rebounding. I proposed a trade on another forum:

Clippers get:
Isaiah Thomas PG
Wilson Chandler SF
Lance Stephenson SG

Suns get:
Deandre Jordan C
Matt Barnes SF
Jordan Farmar PG

Charlotte Gets:
Jamal Crawford SG
C-Douglas Roberts SF

Denver gets:
P.J. Tucker SF

one person argued with me and said "how can you trade away Deandre Jordan, who is our best rebounder? Then I pointed out something obscure. If we bring in Lance Stephenson, who averages 6.8 rebounds per game that's a huge improvement at the SG position by a whopping 4.9 Rebounds per game of improvement over the 1.9 rebounds per game that Jamal gives us. Then Isaiah Thomas averages 2.4 rebounds per game, while Jordan Farmar averages 1.1 rebounds per game, so we've added 1.3 more rebounds per game by that trade. Now Wilson Chandler averages 6.1 rebounds per game, while Matt Barnes averages 3.1 rebounds per game, which is an increase of 3 whole rebounds per game. So in total swapping getting these three players just added 15.3 rebounds per game.
Now people will correctly point out, but what about Deandre? We just shipped out our best rebounder we will be worse. Part of this trade is context, sure you will be losing some rebounding, but not all. We have to put in context that Hawes will come in to fill the starting center spot. Hawes averages 4.2 rebounds per game....in backup minutes. Deandre averages 13.8 rebounds per game, so we have to subtract the difference that will be lost from DJ leaving and Hawes taking that spot. So at the center position making that change will result in -9.6. Now making that change will result in a loss of 9.6 rebounds per game, but....we just added 15.3 rebounds per game to our average with the three players I just mentioned (Thomas, Stephenson, and Chandler).
So those 15.3 rebounds per game that we added drop down to 5.7 rebounds per game. We still added a whopping 5.7 rebounds per game off of all these moves despite trading away a 13.8 rebound per game center.
Hypothetically trading DJ will not make us a worse rebounding team provided the players we bring in each chip in together to provide more as a unit than DJ can alone, which this trade would do.

So are these moves worth it just to improve our rebounding average by 5.7 rebounds per game? 5.7 is such a small number. However, look at this ESPN link.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/ ... vgRebounds

The leagues best rebounding team, Portland, averages 46.6 rebounds per game. The Clippers, currently rank 27th in the league in rebounding average with only 40.6 rebounds per game. If we added 5.7 rebounds per game to our average we would be at 46.3 rebounds per game and would vault up from 27th in rebounding to tied for 2nd place with OKC.
The bottom line is that team stats are where its at. If it improves our unit output by trading away one player that is great at a skill then we will be better for it. Of course there are many trades that we can do to accomplish this. I know people have reservations about Stephenson, so you can find other players. But what I like about this trade is that each of these three players we would bring in do a little of everything: score, rebound, pass, and most likely are better defender than the three players we swap them out for. What I also like is that Hawes could be the x factor too. Since his production has been on limited minutes he could potentially provide more rebounds than his current numbers suggest. Anyway I digress, but the overall picture is that we can improve our rebounding numbers even if we lose DJ

This is a very intriguing trade scenario. I've spent about a half hour looking at it from all angles (especially financially), and if I was given the choice, I would probably pull the trigger on this. The only thing is, I don't see why Denver would want anything to do with this. They're giving up Wilson Chandler for P.J. Tucker which is a big downgrade.

I'm sure there are better trade scenarios that could be made, especially when DJ and Crawford are part of the equation, but I would be pretty satisfied if this went through. These players would finally give this team a defensive identity, even if we lose our so called defensive anchor.

[pageC4]

[it's an intriguing idea but it also is missing one element of the "context" which is the system they play in. I would expect those guys who are coming in from your scenario to drop their rebound totals too under Doc's system. I'll tell you this tho, having Hawes start next to Blake and Blake will see a whole lot more paint. the spacing alone could make Blake to lead the league in scoring.

Very good point Neddy. I suppose everything needs context. Some of those players possibly may or may not do as well here. Or they could all thrive, but the main thing is that there are players out there that can do a little of everything, and can make this club better. Another good alternative to Stephenson would be Jimmy Butler, but he's going to command some major dollars.
I think we should take the risk on some of these trades though because the alternative is to stay the course, finish 6th, be paired up against GSW or Memphis, and exit in round one. Our options aren't limited to the above mentioned guys either, and who knows there may be some players out there that better fits Doc's system.

[pageC4]

This is a very intriguing trade scenario. I've spent about a half hour looking at it from all angles (especially financially), and if I was given the choice, I would probably pull the trigger on this. The only thing is, I don't see why Denver would want anything to do with this. They're giving up Wilson Chandler for P.J. Tucker which is a big downgrade.

I'm sure there are better trade scenarios that could be made, especially when DJ and Crawford are part of the equation, but I would be pretty satisfied if this went through. These players would finally give this team a defensive identity, even if we lose our so called defensive anchor.

Very true apet8945, Denver may have reservations. We would most likely have to entice them with one of our young guys or some other carrot. P.J. is a downgrade no doubt, but not as drastic as we would think. ESPN has their PER's as very comparable (Chandler is rated at a 12.7 PER and Tucker is also at 12.7 PER). Chandler is scoring 14.5 PPG, 6.1 RPG, and 1.3 APG, while Tucker is producing 7.8 PPG, 5.9 RPG, and 1.6 APG. So there is certainly an offensive drop off there. But perhaps the drop in salary would be one reason to entice them to do this trade. It would certainly take some scheming on our part to get Denver involved, but its worth a shot. Denver is kind of in the middle of the road right now. They aren't in the playoff picture and they aren't exactly rebuilding with youth so something has to give with them, and maybe an injury to one guy may make them waive the towel and be up for doing this trade for a salary slight salary shed.

[Neddy]

please first of all, i ask for forgiveness from all the mods for hijacking this thread, but i think this is an important discussion to keep adding fuel to its fire.

in all honesty i have been looking at every angle where we can trade DJ + glut of young SGs + whatever the filler to trade for Chris Bosh. i know he isn't your traditional center, but he is the perfect complement for Blake. Bosh can stretch the floor like Hawes, but can give better defensive effort and is a legitimate star power to give our clippers the credential of a big three. the opposing team cannot focus on pass first guard CP3 or incomplete offensive talent but a bull in a china shop in Blake anymore, Bosh would bring in the steady veteran presence who can take over that #1 option scoring wise when other two are stuck in idle at times. it is just that i cannot think of a single scenario where Miami would trade a young 30 year old Bosh to us for 26 year old DJ whom is obviously a down grade.

[mattd13]

I think the discussion is great however like you I just do not see some of these ideas working out. I would like to improve the team but we are limited in what can be done.

[LACtdom]

please first of all, i ask for forgiveness from all the mods for hijacking this thread, but i think this is an important discussion to keep adding fuel to its fire.

in all honesty i have been looking at every angle where we can trade DJ + glut of young SGs + whatever the filler to trade for Chris Bosh. i know he isn't your traditional center, but he is the perfect complement for Blake. Bosh can stretch the floor like Hawes, but can give better defensive effort and is a legitimate star power to give our clippers the credential of a big three. the opposing team cannot focus on pass first guard CP3 or incomplete offensive talent but a bull in a china shop in Blake anymore, Bosh would bring in the steady veteran presence who can take over that #1 option scoring wise when other two are stuck in idle at times. it is just that i cannot think of a single scenario where Miami would trade a young 30 year old Bosh to us for 26 year old DJ whom is obviously a down grade.

The only way Miami would do this is either:
1. They finally go after that true center they've been missing to pair up with Wade and Deng as primary scorers.
2. They are in rebuild mode and don't re-sign DJ and basically free up cap space to sign another star
Otherwise we would have to really overpay to get Bosh.

[MartinToVaught]

No to Stephenson at all. We need DJ for rebounding

Come playoff time when DJ vanishes as usual and Barnes gets torched by the Durants, Kawhis, Parsons, Batums, etc. of the West as usual, you'll be wishing we had somebody like Stephenson.

And where was Stephenson in last years playoffs?

Playing in the conference finals while DJ and Barnes were watching from home.

[nickhx2]

yeah cause that was all due to lance's greatness

[LACtdom]

You have to think, if Charlotte don't want Lance and neither do Indiana then are we sure we want him?

[apet8945]

This is a very intriguing trade scenario. I've spent about a half hour looking at it from all angles (especially financially), and if I was given the choice, I would probably pull the trigger on this. The only thing is, I don't see why Denver would want anything to do with this. They're giving up Wilson Chandler for P.J. Tucker which is a big downgrade.

I'm sure there are better trade scenarios that could be made, especially when DJ and Crawford are part of the equation, but I would be pretty satisfied if this went through. These players would finally give this team a defensive identity, even if we lose our so called defensive anchor.

Very true apet8945, Denver may have reservations. We would most likely have to entice them with one of our young guys or some other carrot. P.J. is a downgrade no doubt, but not as drastic as we would think. ESPN has their PER's as very comparable (Chandler is rated at a 12.7 PER and Tucker is also at 12.7 PER). Chandler is scoring 14.5 PPG, 6.1 RPG, and 1.3 APG, while Tucker is producing 7.8 PPG, 5.9 RPG, and 1.6 APG. So there is certainly an offensive drop off there. But perhaps the drop in salary would be one reason to entice them to do this trade. It would certainly take some scheming on our part to get Denver involved, but its worth a shot. Denver is kind of in the middle of the road right now. They aren't in the playoff picture and they aren't exactly rebuilding with youth so something has to give with them, and maybe an injury to one guy may make them waive the towel and be up for doing this trade for a salary slight salary shed.

As long as we don't have to include any draft picks in any trade scenarios we could be involved in, then I'm ok with this team shaking things up a little bit roster wise. We've been too lousy with our draft picks lately.

[pageC4]

As long as we don't have to include any draft picks in any trade scenarios we could be involved in, then I'm ok with this team shaking things up a little bit roster wise. We've been too lousy with our draft picks lately.

I think OKC and the Spurs have set a brilliant blueprint of what you can build with draft picks. I too do not like to deal them away, but given that Doc is the guy doing the drafting maybe picks aren't the best thing for this organization to keep. For one Doc makes the stupidest draft decisions that go against conventional wisdom, and secondly he doesn't even play the rookies when he does draft them. I think this all goes back to his faults as a GM. It shines more light on the need for us to relieve him of that role.

[pageC4]

Come playoff time when DJ vanishes as usual and Barnes gets torched by the Durants, Kawhis, Parsons, Batums, etc. of the West as usual, you'll be wishing we had somebody like Stephenson.

And where was Stephenson in last years playoffs?

Playing in the conference finals while DJ and Barnes were watching from home.

Lol, man this was hilarious. Great comeback Martin, but I think you're right it's no surprise that Lance Stephenson's skill set was a crucial factor during that teams run as an eastern conference contender. Despite his personal flaws the guy can score, defend, rebound, and pass...he's essentially a complete player. There was even talk of Indiana trying to acquire him back, so I think while the rumors of his personal attitude may have some root in truth we clearly see they aren't enough of a detriment to discourage teams from acquiring him...even a team that dealt him away. The issue with other teams not prying him away from Charlotte had more to do with Charlotte not feeling as if they were getting enough back in return form him, so they know that he should command a better return than most of these teams were offering.