DeAndre of 2015-16 -- What are we expecting?

[50CALguns]

the proper context here is that, prior to Doc, DJ under MIke Dunleavy, the coach who drafted him, couldnt see the floor. Vinny Del AfricanAmerican (according to blake griffin) refused to play him when the game was on the line. the interim coach between them, was none other than DJ's own BIGMEN's coach Kim Hughes and he didn't put DJ out there much either.

it was only after Doc got here, and only after Doc pumped in some hot air into DJ, that DJ became a max player, plain and simple. I don't see another coach who would have made DJ what he is today. Jerry Sloan wouldn't play Karl Malone until he could shoot FTs. Pop never even have players who can't shoot even 50%. guys like BIll Fitch, Chris Ford, even Pat Riley won't stand by a sub 40% FT shooter on the floor. but Doc somehow made it happen.

trust me, I hate the GM and president Doc. but Coach Doc has qualities that goes beyond Xs and Os.

On DJ getting treated like an actual NBA Center...
Watch that last bit, about wanting credit, and a cookie:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeQIQuDL8aA[/youtube]
Add at the end... "Low-expectation-having-motherfugka"

DJ finally go minutes (24 mpg to 35 mpg)... give Glenn Rivers his cookie.

Meanwhile...
DeAndre's FGA per 100 Possessions (reg season):
2009 - 9.9
2010 - 10.9
---- Vinny
2011 - 8.9
2012 - 9.8
2013 - 12.8
---- Glenny
2014 - 9.0
2015 - 9.6

dude, i have nothing against you, but this is exzctly what Ranma is talking about, stats out of context. GFA per 100 means nothing when he is taken out of the game at the end of second quarters and all of 4th, which is exactly what Vinny did with DJ. thus DJ himself as well as his teammates looked for him when he was on the court, spoon feeding him his shots. under Doc, DJ is on the court all the time, which translated into his league leading rebounding, which is far more crucial for this team than DJ's lovable but laughable offense.

let me give you an example,

Danny Salazar of Cleveland strikes out 10.80 batsman per 9 innings compared to Felix Hernandez, who only strikes out 8.59. would you have Danny over Felix?

Again. Stats are simply an account of actual events.

Glenn CONTINUED to treat DeAndre like an afterthought on offense.
Did you read that comment/tweet?! If true.
They're going to hire a big man coach!? What?
Were the Clippers NOT coaching-up DJ on offense, all this time?!??

[nickhx2]

lol it's like arguing with a brick wall.

stats can be used and interpreted many different ways depending on the context you use. you are using dj's stats with your own narrative to portray him as something he is not. end of story.

[50CALguns]

lol it's like arguing with a brick wall.

stats can be used and interpreted many different ways depending on the context you use. you are using dj's stats with your own narrative to portray him as something he is not. end of story.

So what are the "cooked' stats that I used ? How am I misusing stats, out of context?


My premise: Hey, they don't use DJ enough on offense, he could be Shaq-lite

The "stats" posted: FG attempts per 100 possession list of Clips roster


Explain, all ears.
No message board-speak.

[Neddy]

lol it's like arguing with a brick wall.

stats can be used and interpreted many different ways depending on the context you use. you are using dj's stats with your own narrative to portray him as something he is not. end of story.

So what are the "cooked' stats that I used ? How am I misusing stats, out of context?


My premise: Hey, they don't use DJ enough on offense, he could be Shaq-lite

The "stats" posted: FG attempts per 100 possession list of Clips roster


Explain, all ears.
No message board-speak.

before you go on more of the same, you haven't answered my question. is Danny better than Felix?

[50CALguns]

before you go on more of the same, you haven't answered my question. is Danny better than Felix?

I have no clue who those people are.

Ask me who I rate higher on the G.O.A.T. list of fighters... Randy Couture (19-11) or Sergei Kharitonov (23-5).
It's Randy, by far.

Are we done TRYING to insinuate the I'm using "stats" over-simplistically.

[nickhx2]

1. nobody says you're using cooked stats. stop with this words in other people's mouths stuff.

2. just go ahead and reread the thread. almost every single post in response to you is how you are taking statistics out of context for your own argument.

3. why say to explain and that you're all ears if you continue to ignore everything everyone else says anyway?


we get it, you think dj should be shaq-lite. nobody here agrees with you. you keep putting up stats, putting them out of context to support yourself, warping arguments, and so forth.

here's the thing: even if dj was an above average low post threat, it'd still be wrong to make him a focal point. the nba has changed significantly. players who post up are attacked like someone who kicked a hornet's nest. it forces them to make bad decisions and anyone who is not paying attention for half a second, who doesn't have strong read/pass skills, who doesn't have good moves, e.g. anyone who doesn't have the full array of skills required for elite post play, will hurt your offense. post play has essentially been solved to the point that the nba has been moving away from it.

but it's not just how teams defend it. it's how it gums up your own nba offenses. you know how lebron is so ridiculous in the paint? do you know why golden state were one of the best teams in the paint this year despite having an offense almost entirely predicated on shooting? they don't have their own teammates blocking them constantly. old-school post players gum up offense. your own teammate is an obstacle, and he always brings a buddy along, too.

this team has made an absolute killing figuring out how to operate in tight spaces, even with DJ and his defender in blake's way. but camping DJ out there all the time instead of just some of the time is not the way to improve our offense. it's a shooter's league now and will be unless rules change.

[Neddy]

before you go on more of the same, you haven't answered my question. is Danny better than Felix?

I have no clue who those people are.

Ask me who I rate higher on the G.O.A.T. list of fighters... Randy Couture (19-11) or Sergei Kharitonov (23-5).
It's Randy, by far.

Are we done TRYING to insinuate the I'm using "stats" over-simplistically.

your stats are right because you said so, and mine are not applicable because you are ignorant of such.

great. you are exactly what ranma said you were. and here I am thinking Ranma was a bit harsh and wanted to give you a benefit of the doubt. you don't even get my analogy of misuse of isolated stats out of context.


look, man, I am going to stop responding. as you should too, at least on this particular topic. no hard feeings, and I love you just because you are a fellow clipper fan. but debating with you over how to interpret isolated stats seems pointless as you are a true believer. good for you. hope DJ reads all of your claims and posts. hopefully he gains a ton of confidence going into the next season, and when we win it all, all of us in here can celebrate together as brothers.

laters.








PS- DJ is no shaq lite, because I said so

[nickhx2]

generally agree. gonna put the keyboard down on this topic. 50 cal is one of the more passionate clipper fans around and that i can appreciate.

[50CALguns]

1. nobody says you're using cooked stats. stop with this words in other people's mouths stuff.

2. just go ahead and reread the thread. almost every single post in response to you is how you are taking statistics out of context for your own argument.

3. why say to explain and that you're all ears if you continue to ignore everything everyone else says anyway?

we get it, you think dj should be shaq-lite. nobody here agrees with you. you keep putting up stats, putting them out of context to support yourself, warping arguments, and so forth.

here's the thing: even if dj was an above average low post threat, it'd still be wrong to make him a focal point. the nba has changed significantly. players who post up are attacked like someone who kicked a hornet's nest. it forces them to make bad decisions and anyone who is not paying attention for half a second, who doesn't have strong read/pass skills, who doesn't have good moves, e.g. anyone who doesn't have the full array of skills required for elite post play, will hurt your offense. post play has essentially been solved to the point that the nba has been moving away from it.

but it's not just how teams defend it. it's how it gums up your own nba offenses. you know how lebron is so ridiculous in the paint? do you know why golden state were one of the best teams in the paint this year despite having an offense almost entirely predicated on shooting? they don't have their own teammates blocking them constantly. old-school post players gum up offense. your own teammate is an obstacle, and he always brings a buddy along, too.

this team has made an absolute killing figuring out how to operate in tight spaces, even with DJ and his defender in blake's way. but camping DJ out there all the time instead of just some of the time is not the way to improve our offense. it's a shooter's league now and will be unless rules change.

PREFACE: Words in other peoples mouths :: "make him a focal point"


I'll start with your first reply...

...
but dj does have a little bit of post game though from his VDN days which he needs to unbury. smart nba teams like GS have been very effective putting shorter non-defenders on bigger guys who can't post up and it baits dumb offenses into attacking them. dj having something to work with counteracts that completely.

Ranma's...

DeAndre Jordan needs to improve his free-throw shooting. Period. I've already noted that he's flashed the ability and footwork to be an offensive presence beyond dunking, but it means nothing if a defender can foul him at practically any given moment before he even starts his moves. Plus, his unreliability from the charity stripe keeps him off the floor for significant time.

While he is obviously a big piece to the team, he has to start with improving at the line before any of his other offensive aspirations can take place. Continued improvement on defense should also be a priority. Both of these areas would be helped a lot with better focus, commitment, and dedication. I suspect his emotional fragility will also have him folding during his games at the American Airlines Center in a hostile environment, so improved mental toughness would go a long way to improving all areas of his game.

Luckily, he has a lot of physical and athletic tools to work with. Hopefully, he won't squander his still untapped potential by letting his mental vulnerabilities continue to hold him back..

I'm taking that notion further. And I'm pointing out just how UNDER-UTILIZED, er, or at least how NEGLECTED exploring his potential has been.

Adding a legitamate post threat to the overall capabilities of the team, having that option, would be a force multiplier.


Are you okay with this?




And lets say DJ's FT% doesn't improve (Shaq?)...
What? He can't improve his effectiveness offensively otherwise?

[Ranma]

Now you're taking snippets of text out of our comments to support your narrow view while ignoring the rest that explains and answers why precisely he might be under-utilized and not reaching his full potential? Have you actually convinced anyone on any other forums of your...position?

[50CALguns]

before you go on more of the same, you haven't answered my question. is Danny better than Felix?

I have no clue who those people are.

Ask me who I rate higher on the G.O.A.T. list of fighters... Randy Couture (19-11) or Sergei Kharitonov (23-5).
It's Randy, by far.

Are we done TRYING to insinuate the I'm using "stats" over-simplistically.

your stats are right because you said so, and mine are not applicable because you are ignorant of such.

great. you are exactly what ranma said you were. and here I am thinking Ranma was a bit harsh and wanted to give you a benefit of the doubt. you don't even get my analogy of misuse of isolated stats out of context.


look, man, I am going to stop responding. as you should too, at least on this particular topic. no hard feeings, and I love you just because you are a fellow clipper fan. but debating with you over how to interpret isolated stats seems pointless as you are a true believer. good for you. hope DJ reads all of your claims and posts. hopefully he gains a ton of confidence going into the next season, and when we win it all, all of us in here can celebrate together as brothers.

late

PS- DJ is no shaq lite, because I said so

What stats?

[50CALguns]

Now you're taking snippets of text out of our comments to support your narrow view while ignoring the rest that explains and answer why precisely he might be under-utilized and not reaching his full potential? Have you actually convinced anyone on any other forums of your...position?

Defenses now a-days are great at thwarting post play, and DJ has to improve his FT% before he can commence his progress. Anything else?

Simply put... (where do you disagree/agree? what context is missing with those stats?)

Adding a post threat gives opponents another thing to contend with, makes the team more dynamic.
DeAndre has not been given the opportunity to show just how effective he can be.
I believe he has the tools to be Shaq-lite.


See here, DJ's touches are limited/neglected...




Apparently the team didn't have a "big man coach" (still incredulous about this)...

[Ranma]

Good grief. I was the one who posted that tweet so citing it as evidence while focusing strictly on its mere existence in over-reacting and not even recognizing the context of the situation in its entirety has no weight with me. You continue to take for granted that a switch will be flipped and Jordan will automatically be the player that you envision him to be. This isn't NBA 2K15 (a video game). Plus, our fellow posters have gone to great lengths to try to explain to you why and how the NBA has evolved from the traditional post game.

I'm in no mood to repeat myself or specifically cite the contributions of everyone who've added to the discussion. My advice to you is to re-read every single post in this thread carefully and comprehend concepts and notions beyond your limited scope. You keep asking people for answers and clarification despite already being given them while continuing to fail in citing real sources that support your position. Have you even noticed that you're absolutely the only person reaching your conclusion? Again, referring to Jordan himself for his own misguided views on his performance is not at all objective. I can't believe I have to point that out.

Since you're still unconvinced here, go ahead and seek out other voices and feedback in other forums and domains. And, while you're at it, seek help.

[kylem4711]

before you go on more of the same, you haven't answered my question. is Danny better than Felix?

I have no clue who those people are.

Ask me who I rate higher on the G.O.A.T. list of fighters... Randy Couture (19-11) or Sergei Kharitonov (23-5).
It's Randy, by far.

Are we done TRYING to insinuate the I'm using "stats" over-simplistically.

I don't even know what you chumps are fighting about, I just wanted to say good on you for using a Sergei Kharitonov reference. I thought that guy was going to be the next Fedor.