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Game 15: Clippers (5-9) visit Hornets (5-9) on 11/18 @ 7:00 PM ET

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Re: Game 15: Clippers (5-9) visit Hornets (5-9) on 11/18 @ 7:00 PM ET 

Post#41 » by esqtvd » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:47 pm

How do I explain to people the aftermath of what is probably due to mono? People (family, cute girls) keep brushing off my physical symptoms when I try to concisely explain that, even though I'm infinitely better than I was a couple months ago, my energy fuel tank still empties suddenly and unpredictably, and then I feel awful, freezing, aching, dizzy, and extremely sick until I sleep it off?


http://ask.metafilter.com/177289/One-of-those-but-you-dont-look-sick-situations

Lost in the Austinbash was that he had mono last summer. We're supposed to be watching his minutes but he's had to step it up because of injuries. This sounds exactly like what happened Saturday vs the Hornets. [And it wasn't just Austin!]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/clippers/la-sp-clippers-report-20171119-story.html


Rivers suggested that the shorthanded Clippers may have been stretched to the limits in the fourth quarter of their loss to the Hornets.

The Clippers trailed just 84-83 with 5 minutes, 15 seconds left, but they were outscored 18-4 the rest of the way and never looked sharp.

“Guys are just tired, man,” Rivers said. “I’ve never been that tired. I don’t know what happened. Maybe it’s because I’ve been sick. I don’t know what it was. I’m not making excuses.”

Rivers missed five of his six three-pointers. He had nine points and a minus-16 in the plus/minus department.

“That was probably one of the worst games for me,” Rivers said. “I just had nothing. I had no energy. I tried in the second half, but I was dead. I was dead tired, for whatever reason. I don’t know. We’ve just got to continue to fight through.”
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Re: Game 15: Clippers (5-9) visit Hornets (5-9) on 11/18 @ 7:00 PM ET 

Post#42 » by johanliebert » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:08 am

og15 wrote:Blake is a very versatile and good player, but he is not a "point forward", and you can't just run him without a player on the court to take on that playmaker role. Worse off is Austin and Blake on the court together. Doc for some reason puts Austin in roles that actually make him look worse (playing PG, playing SF), and Austin and Blake together, they just devolve too often to isolation and Blake backing down for the whole shot clock like we're back in 2011-2012. The FO needs to go out and grab a veteran PG. I know that the luxury tax is in play here, and the Clippers were right at the border of it, which is likely a factor, but this is out of hand, and we don't have a "system" that can work without someone to run things and create and break down the defense to get the ball moving from the point.

Blake is a very good secondary playmaker, who of course can have games and stretches where he does a lot of playmaking, that's normal, but this whole plan of making Blake a primary playmaker is harming his game and just making him an iso player. To me, there's absolutely no reason Blake should be shooting, I believe he will be under 42% FG after this game. Our 15 game trial has been nice and shown us the reality.

I don't know if any of you guys have looked at the numbers, but over the last 11 games, Blake is shooting 38% FG / 32% 3PT. Blake is having his own issues in contributing to that, but that's a team and coaching issue also, and Patrick Beverley is certainly not solving anything.

I'm not one to say everything is on Doc, but this much losing, even with injuries, that's just not acceptable, we can't blame injuries for an 8 game losing streak and losing 10/11 when we have Griffin/Jordan on the roster and still some decent enough role players. Last seasons team, even with both Paul and Griffin out still were able to go 3-7. Is anyone going to make the argument that this supposedly much deeper team with 3 players injured is worse than the no Paul/Griffin team last season? Not to mention this team has star power. I think it's time for a change, even just for the sake of change. Maybe Doc is saying all of the right things, but if it isn't landing, then it's not working.



that roster after injuries may be the worst in the league. the clippers do not have enough or even decent roll players. they are starting thornwell and wesley johnson. those guys shouldnt be on the rotation of a good team yet alone starting. theres no spacing for blake and the only other shot creator is chilling on the bench as the 6th man. they were suppose tolose 8 straight...9 now and i doub it will end. losing reddick/luc hurts more than yall believe.
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Re: Game 15: Clippers (5-9) visit Hornets (5-9) on 11/18 @ 7:00 PM ET 

Post#43 » by og15 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:34 am

johanliebert wrote:
og15 wrote:Blake is a very versatile and good player, but he is not a "point forward", and you can't just run him without a player on the court to take on that playmaker role. Worse off is Austin and Blake on the court together. Doc for some reason puts Austin in roles that actually make him look worse (playing PG, playing SF), and Austin and Blake together, they just devolve too often to isolation and Blake backing down for the whole shot clock like we're back in 2011-2012. The FO needs to go out and grab a veteran PG. I know that the luxury tax is in play here, and the Clippers were right at the border of it, which is likely a factor, but this is out of hand, and we don't have a "system" that can work without someone to run things and create and break down the defense to get the ball moving from the point.

Blake is a very good secondary playmaker, who of course can have games and stretches where he does a lot of playmaking, that's normal, but this whole plan of making Blake a primary playmaker is harming his game and just making him an iso player. To me, there's absolutely no reason Blake should be shooting, I believe he will be under 42% FG after this game. Our 15 game trial has been nice and shown us the reality.

I don't know if any of you guys have looked at the numbers, but over the last 11 games, Blake is shooting 38% FG / 32% 3PT. Blake is having his own issues in contributing to that, but that's a team and coaching issue also, and Patrick Beverley is certainly not solving anything.

I'm not one to say everything is on Doc, but this much losing, even with injuries, that's just not acceptable, we can't blame injuries for an 8 game losing streak and losing 10/11 when we have Griffin/Jordan on the roster and still some decent enough role players. Last seasons team, even with both Paul and Griffin out still were able to go 3-7. Is anyone going to make the argument that this supposedly much deeper team with 3 players injured is worse than the no Paul/Griffin team last season? Not to mention this team has star power. I think it's time for a change, even just for the sake of change. Maybe Doc is saying all of the right things, but if it isn't landing, then it's not working.



that roster after injuries may be the worst in the league. the clippers do not have enough or even decent roll players. they are starting thornwell and wesley johnson. those guys shouldnt be on the rotation of a good team yet alone starting. theres no spacing for blake and the only other shot creator is chilling on the bench as the 6th man. they were suppose tolose 8 straight...9 now and i doub it will end. losing reddick/luc hurts more than yall believe.

They were not supposed to lose 8 straight, not even close. They had enough talent to beat at least 3 of those teams. The roster is very mediocre with the injuries, but first of all the losses started before the injuries all piled up. In the game Gallo went down, we had already lost 3/4 and then lost that game too. We already lost 5/6 and 3 on a row before Beverley got injured.

Secondly, Felton/(Redick or Rivers)/Mbah/(Pierce or Johnson)/Jordan starting lineup went 3-7 last season without Paul/Griffin. Felton/Redick/Rivers/Mbah/Jordan beat the Suns by 11, the Grizzlies by 9 and the Hawks by 10. Beverley was even back tonight, and it was the worst loss.

No, no, this is much more than a talent problem, this is just a lot of issues combined.
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Re: Game 15: Clippers (5-9) visit Hornets (5-9) on 11/18 @ 7:00 PM ET 

Post#44 » by esqtvd » Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:51 am

well, they're strangers to each other
it's a pickup team

and not all that talented a pickup team

at least Felton/Redick/Rivers/Mbah/Jordan had 4 guys who were familiar with each other and a pretty savvy vet in Felton
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Re: Game 15: Clippers (5-9) visit Hornets (5-9) on 11/18 @ 7:00 PM ET 

Post#45 » by og15 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:56 am

esqtvd wrote:well, they're strangers to each other
it's a pickup team

and not all that talented a pickup team

at least Felton/Redick/Rivers/Mbah/Jordan had 4 guys who were familiar with each other and a pretty savvy vet in Felton

I don't know. Austin, WeJo, Blake and Jordan have all been here for some time and know each other. I do think if we added a guy like Felton who isn't any sort of special player we might have won a game or two though. I'm speculating, but he prevents Rivers from being played at PG and maybe he can get Blake an easy shot or two, but I don't know. We've so lost 6/7 games with those 4 and Beverley, so maybe that's wishful thinking even though Felton is much more of a PG than Bev. They are just dysfunctional right now.
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Re: Game 15: Clippers (5-9) visit Hornets (5-9) on 11/18 @ 7:00 PM ET 

Post#46 » by esqtvd » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:21 pm

og15 wrote:
esqtvd wrote:well, they're strangers to each other
it's a pickup team

and not all that talented a pickup team

at least Felton/Redick/Rivers/Mbah/Jordan had 4 guys who were familiar with each other and a pretty savvy vet in Felton

I don't know. Austin, WeJo, Blake and Jordan have all been here for some time and know each other. I do think if we added a guy like Felton who isn't any sort of special player we might have won a game or two though. I'm speculating, but he prevents Rivers from being played at PG and maybe he can get Blake an easy shot or two, but I don't know. We've so lost 6/7 games with this 4 and Beverley, so maybe that's wishful running even though Felton is much more of a PG than Bev. They are just dysfunctional right now.



Well, Sindarius instead of Felton explains it right there. Sindarius has given the transition from SF hell but at the 2 he's still basically a G-Leaguer. And I don't rate WeJo much higher, sorry. He's probably going to fall out of the rotation AGAIN once we're at full strength. I say you're already DOA with them as starters.

IIRC, Felton didn't QB the team like CP did; he and Austin shared the ballhandling duties, and I suppose that was the plan for AR23 and Pat Bev, enhanced by the savvy Gallo. But we barely got to Plan A. And I don't know if it'll work even in the best of times, but Austin won the SG spot fair and square last year and Pat Bev was saying he's ready to be a starting PG. That's the best defensive pairing by far in a league that has more than a few excellent guard tandems. That combo may not work but you shoot for the optimum first and scramble if and when it won't work.

Hey, OKC is a mess with 3 perennial All-Stars. All we have is a struggling Blake and we have DJ, who I doubt will ever be an All-Star again. And with the ball-dominant CP gone, we don't even have a structure to plug people into--we need to find a new one. It was going to be a mess even at full strength with Plan A.
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Re: Game 15: Clippers (5-9) visit Hornets (5-9) on 11/18 @ 7:00 PM ET 

Post#47 » by og15 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:33 pm

Best defensive pairing in the league? Definitely not, and certainly not by far. Best defensive pairing on the Clippers? Sure, but Thornwell is coming for that as he gets more experience.

I guess the point is that Beverley or even Thornwell for Felton really isn't the difference between playing at or >500 and losing 6/7 or 9 in a row. So the team is having more issues than lack of talent.

The bench is also technically still pretty good compared to other benches.
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Re: Game 15: Clippers (5-9) visit Hornets (5-9) on 11/18 @ 7:00 PM ET 

Post#48 » by esqtvd » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:51 pm

That's the best defensive pairing by far in a league that has more than a few excellent guard tandems.

I meant best on the Clippers of course, to defend in a league with pairs like Steph and Klay, where it's hard to hide a bad defender like, well, Milos. The best outcome would be if Pat and Austin combo would work. But we'll likely have to try Milos starting since Blake is really struggling without a PG. But that was not the plan.

Frankly, I expected more at least in isos from Blake for $30M a year. $30M players should be able to impose their will on the 4thQ but that's not happening. The underperforming in the W column can be ascribed solely to that: Blake has been miserable. If it's fair to blame his suckiness on his supporting cast, it's even more fair to blame their suckiness on their superstar. Superstars are supposed to make the other players better, that's part of the job.

As one of our smarter posters put it:

Sorry, I had to, but I get what you are saying, on one hand, he's been dealt a tough hand, but on the other hand, he's not a rookie, and he's not the first or only player to have that happen. He's a 28 year old experienced player, and as a guy paid at that level, there is some expectation to be able to will your team to a victory or rally your guys to defend well enough in at least two or three of the past 8 games.
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Re: Game 15: Clippers (5-9) visit Hornets (5-9) on 11/18 @ 7:00 PM ET 

Post#49 » by og15 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:23 am

I'll give you that one, lol
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Re: Game 15: Clippers (5-9) visit Hornets (5-9) on 11/18 @ 7:00 PM ET 

Post#50 » by esqtvd » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:34 am

esqtvd wrote:That's the best defensive pairing by far in a league that has more than a few excellent guard tandems.

I meant best on the Clippers of course, to defend in a league with pairs like Steph and Klay, where it's hard to hide a bad defender like, well, Milos. The best outcome would be if Pat and Austin combo would work. But we'll likely have to try Milos starting since Blake is really struggling without a PG. But that was not the plan.

Frankly, I expected more at least in isos from Blake for $30M a year. $30M players should be able to impose their will on the 4thQ but that's not happening. The underperforming in the W column can be ascribed solely to that: Blake has been miserable. If it's fair to blame his suckiness on his supporting cast, it's even more fair to blame their suckiness on their superstar. Superstars are supposed to make the other players better, that's part of the job.

As one of our smarter posters put it:

Sorry, I had to, but I get what you are saying, on one hand, he's been dealt a tough hand, but on the other hand, he's not a rookie, and he's not the first or only player to have that happen. He's a 28 year old experienced player, and as a guy paid at that level, there is some expectation to be able to will your team to a victory or rally your guys to defend well enough in at least two or three of the past 8 games.


___________________________

LATE ADD: If he's referring to Austin for lack of effort ["I don't care if you score 2 points"], that would be unfair since Austin is still recovering from mono and has been forced into extended minutes. Austin's problem is he's pressing, not that he's loafing.

Regardless, it's clear Pat Bev is taking dead aim at Blake and DJ, our two highest-paid contracts, supposedly our team leaders and they seem to think it matters that it still says "Clippers" on the front of their unis.

Despite it being his first game back, Pat finished in the plus column. Blake, DJ and Austin all finished -20 or worse; Lou was a team-worst -29. [Pat gave a pass to the bench, which I agree has been adequate, and so does the stat sheet.]



http://www.latimes.com/sports/nba/la-sp-clippers-knicks-20171120-story.html

“This ... feels like 100 losses,” Beverley said. “Straight up. This ... is weak. This ain’t how I roll. That ain’t OK and I won’t allow it to be OK as long as I’m here. That’s a fact.”

The Clippers already had one team meeting following their third straight loss in San Antonio on Nov. 7. Is it worth having another one?


“Hell no,” Beverley said. “We just got to play harder. That’s it. We just got to play harder. You get rid of the mistakes by playing hard. We’re not playing hard; the first unit, not the whole team. I challenged the first unit to play harder.”

Griffin had 21 points on six-for-18 shooting, but had just four rebounds and also four turnovers. DeAndre Jordan had 10 points and nine rebounds. Beverley had nine points and Lou Williams had eight on two-for-eight shooting. Austin Rivers missed eight of nine shots and finished with two points.

“So what if you have two points? As long as we win, what does it matter? What if you don’t have no points?” Beverley said. “And that’s the maturity hump that we got to get over. We have to be more mature and I don’t think we’re mature enough yet. It’s there. It’s real close. It’s real, real close. But, we just got to play harder.

“We too cool. We too cool. We come in this game, we come on the court like people are supposed to back down because of the name on the back of our jerseys and that’s not the case. The only thing people are looking at is the name on the front of our jersey, and that’s nine losses in a row. They don’t give a ... about what you’ve done in the past or your stats or anything. Teams out here are trying to beat our ... and they are beating our ... .”
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Re: Game 15: Clippers (5-9) visit Hornets (5-9) on 11/18 @ 7:00 PM ET 

Post#51 » by esqtvd » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:39 am

og15 wrote:I'll give you that one, lol


Am I the only one who actually reads this thing? :wink:
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Re: Game 15: Clippers (5-9) visit Hornets (5-9) on 11/18 @ 7:00 PM ET 

Post#52 » by esqtvd » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:41 am

esqtvd wrote:
og15 wrote:I'll give you that one, lol


I'm glad you decided not to fight with him. He's a very good poster. :wink:
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