Game 63: Los Angeles Clippers (34-28) @ Utah Jazz (33-26) - 6:00 PM PT

[Clemenza]

I agree that Trez has earned the right to close out games but at the same time there's a few certain players that pose a serious height problem for a 6'8" center like Trez.. Gobert being one of them. I'd put Zubac in with Trez, spacing be damned, and roll with the outcome in a game like that. We have the deep bench now.. why not find the right combo in a game against a tall team like Utah.

To my memory, Trezz has never successfully played with another big man. He's a center only, and can function only in the low post. Can't have 2 guys down there. Zubac is low-post only too.

Doc tried him with DJ a number of times, and with Gortat a few. No dice. I suppose he can give it another look in training camp with Zubac, but now isn't the time.

True, but like I said, spacing be damned and even if the paint is clogged.. If I'm running the show, I'm not going to have 6' 8" Trez bang up against Gobert, Favors, and Joe Engles. That's much too much for an undersized center. Good win tonight though

[TrueLAfan]

I agree that Trez has earned the right to close out games but at the same time there's a few certain players that pose a serious height problem for a 6'8" center like Trez.. Gobert being one of them. I'd put Zubac in with Trez, spacing be damned, and roll with the outcome in a game like that. We have the deep bench now.. why not find the right combo in a game against a tall team like Utah.

To my memory, Trezz has never successfully played with another big man. He's a center only, and can function only in the low post. Can't have 2 guys down there. Zubac is low-post only too.

Doc tried him with DJ a number of times, and with Gortat a few. No dice. I suppose he can give it another look in training camp with Zubac, but now isn't the time.

True, but like I said, spacing be damned and even if the paint is clogged.. If I'm running the show, I'm not going to have 6' 8" Trez bang up against Gobert, Favors, and Joe Engles. That's much too much for an undersized center. Good win tonight though

I think you’re both right. I’ll get ripped up for saying this. A lot of people really love Trezz—and I like him too—but this is exactly why he is a bench player. He’s a high energy guy whose skills (much) more than make up for the fact that he’s undersized … against non-starters. If Trezz had to start and/or played more minutes against the better skilled players, his plus skills would be a little lower (because starters are usually better on D), and his minus issues would be more of a problem (because of the higher overall skill of level of starters vs. bench players).

A lot of people keep saying what an amazing bargain Trezz is. Well, yeah, he’s worth more than the $6 million we’re paying him. But he’s definitely not an NBA starter, IMO--not a good one. He’s a highly productive 20-25 minute bench player whose effectiveness goes down if he plays more. And since he doesn’t have range, his effectiveness is in the post—so he’s mainly a one position player. He’s a good guy and he’s valuable, and he’s more than worth $6 million … but he’s in the right role for him right now. We’d be a better team if Zubac and whatever combination of Motley and Delgado could play 25-28 mpg and Trezz was playing only 20-23 minutes a game.

[esqtvd]

To my memory, Trezz has never successfully played with another big man. He's a center only, and can function only in the low post. Can't have 2 guys down there. Zubac is low-post only too.

Doc tried him with DJ a number of times, and with Gortat a few. No dice. I suppose he can give it another look in training camp with Zubac, but now isn't the time.

True, but like I said, spacing be damned and even if the paint is clogged.. If I'm running the show, I'm not going to have 6' 8" Trez bang up against Gobert, Favors, and Joe Engles. That's much too much for an undersized center. Good win tonight though

I think you’re both right. I’ll get ripped up for saying this. A lot of people really love Trezz—and I like him too—but this is exactly why he is a bench player. He’s a high energy guy whose skills (much) more than make up for the fact that he’s undersized … against non-starters. If Trezz had to start and/or played more minutes against the better skilled players, his plus skills would be a little lower (because starters are usually better on D), and his minus issues would be more of a problem (because of the higher overall skill of level of starters vs. bench players).

A lot of people keep saying what an amazing bargain Trezz is. Well, yeah, he’s worth more than the $6 million we’re paying him. But he’s definitely not an NBA starter, IMO--not a good one. He’s a highly productive 20-25 minute bench player whose effectiveness goes down if he plays more. And since he doesn’t have range, his effectiveness is in the post—so he’s mainly a one position player. He’s a good guy and he’s valuable, and he’s more than worth $6 million … but he’s in the right role for him right now. We’d be a better team if Zubac and whatever combination of Motley and Delgado could play 25-28 mpg and Trezz was playing only 20-23 minutes a game.

And Zubac is acquitting himself well in his 18 mpg. He might start seeing more. I'm just not ready to bet the game on him instead of Trezz at crunch time. And I agree: It's a shame he has too little range to play PF.

[Clemenza]

True, but like I said, spacing be damned and even if the paint is clogged.. If I'm running the show, I'm not going to have 6' 8" Trez bang up against Gobert, Favors, and Joe Engles. That's much too much for an undersized center. Good win tonight though

I think you’re both right. I’ll get ripped up for saying this. A lot of people really love Trezz—and I like him too—but this is exactly why he is a bench player. He’s a high energy guy whose skills (much) more than make up for the fact that he’s undersized … against non-starters. If Trezz had to start and/or played more minutes against the better skilled players, his plus skills would be a little lower (because starters are usually better on D), and his minus issues would be more of a problem (because of the higher overall skill of level of starters vs. bench players).

A lot of people keep saying what an amazing bargain Trezz is. Well, yeah, he’s worth more than the $6 million we’re paying him. But he’s definitely not an NBA starter, IMO--not a good one. He’s a highly productive 20-25 minute bench player whose effectiveness goes down if he plays more. And since he doesn’t have range, his effectiveness is in the post—so he’s mainly a one position player. He’s a good guy and he’s valuable, and he’s more than worth $6 million … but he’s in the right role for him right now. We’d be a better team if Zubac and whatever combination of Motley and Delgado could play 25-28 mpg and Trezz was playing only 20-23 minutes a game.

And Zubac is acquitting himself well in his 18 mpg. He might start seeing more. I'm just not ready to bet the game on him instead of Trezz at crunch time. And I agree: It's a shame he has too little range to play PF.

Trez definitely needs to close out games. No doubt about that. And in my book he's good to go against 80% of the other centers in the league. But certain instances like the Gobert/Favors and Jokic/Plumlee combos(two teams that are ahead of us in the standings btw) wears and tires him down especially when Doc has him going the entire fourth quarter non stop which then leads to us not rebound from the lack of height and Trez tired as sh*t. Gotta have Zubac, Motley or whoever give him at least a five minute spell or move Trez to the four spots for 5-6 minutes. Something

[esqtvd]

I think you’re both right. I’ll get ripped up for saying this. A lot of people really love Trezz—and I like him too—but this is exactly why he is a bench player. He’s a high energy guy whose skills (much) more than make up for the fact that he’s undersized … against non-starters. If Trezz had to start and/or played more minutes against the better skilled players, his plus skills would be a little lower (because starters are usually better on D), and his minus issues would be more of a problem (because of the higher overall skill of level of starters vs. bench players).

A lot of people keep saying what an amazing bargain Trezz is. Well, yeah, he’s worth more than the $6 million we’re paying him. But he’s definitely not an NBA starter, IMO--not a good one. He’s a highly productive 20-25 minute bench player whose effectiveness goes down if he plays more. And since he doesn’t have range, his effectiveness is in the post—so he’s mainly a one position player. He’s a good guy and he’s valuable, and he’s more than worth $6 million … but he’s in the right role for him right now. We’d be a better team if Zubac and whatever combination of Motley and Delgado could play 25-28 mpg and Trezz was playing only 20-23 minutes a game.

And Zubac is acquitting himself well in his 18 mpg. He might start seeing more. I'm just not ready to bet the game on him instead of Trezz at crunch time. And I agree: It's a shame he has too little range to play PF.

Trez definitely needs to close out games. No doubt about that. And in my book he's good to go against 80% of the other centers in the league. But certain instances like the Gobert/Favors and Jokic/Plumlee combos(two teams that are ahead of us in the standings btw) wears and tires him down especially when Doc has him going the entire fourth quarter non stop which then leads to us not rebound from the lack of height and Trez tired as sh*t. Gotta have Zubac, Motley or whoever give him at least a five minute spell or move Trez to the four spots for 5-6 minutes. Something

I agree in principle. Here's the thing, though--Trezz only played 27 minutes against the Jazz.

[TrueLAfan]

And Zubac is acquitting himself well in his 18 mpg. He might start seeing more. I'm just not ready to bet the game on him instead of Trezz at crunch time. And I agree: It's a shame he has too little range to play PF.

Trez definitely needs to close out games. No doubt about that. And in my book he's good to go against 80% of the other centers in the league. But certain instances like the Gobert/Favors and Jokic/Plumlee combos(two teams that are ahead of us in the standings btw) wears and tires him down especially when Doc has him going the entire fourth quarter non stop which then leads to us not rebound from the lack of height and Trez tired as sh*t. Gotta have Zubac, Motley or whoever give him at least a five minute spell or move Trez to the four spots for 5-6 minutes. Something

I agree in principle. Here's the thing, though--Trezz only played 27 minutes against the Jazz.

Hey, I’m not disagreeing—I’m just saying that Trezz is not as good when going up against starters. I agree we don’t have anyone better right now as a closer right now—but we’re going to take a hit. And we have been all season. The Clippers have had 32 “clutch time” games—games where the score was within 5 points either way with 5 minutes left in the game. Trezz has played in 30 of those games, and his production/effectiveness has dropped.

Code: Select all

PER 36                       PTS   REB  AST  TO
Trezz in clutch time         16.9  8.4  2.2  2.6
Trezz the rest of the time   21.4  9.1  2.7  2.1


It isn’t like others have that falloff. Lou takes a step up (which you kinda figure). So does Gallo. Shai is down about 12% in scoring. Bev drops in scoring and assists but goes (way) up in rebounding and blocks … he’s playing the D while Lou is out there. Of the five Clipper players that have the most minutes in crunch time this season (Lou, Bev, Gallo, Tobias, Trezz), Trezz is the lowest in +/-.

I’m not saying he shouldn’t be our closer. I’m saying that it’s not the best role for him. Other teams play their starters at times like that. Trezz still puts up good numbers, but not as good. Trezz is a bench player, not a clutch time player. Lou Williams, OTOH, is a clutch time player. But yeah, we’ll keep riding Trezz now because he’s more of a known quantity and is somewhat, though less, effective at those times.

And, look--Trezz plays plenty in the fourth; 9 out of 12 minutes. But that means he's only playing 17 minutes in the three previous quarters. Dude just turned 25. I don't think it's his motor. When Trezz gets outplayed at the end of games it's because the players he goes against are better than he is.

[esqtvd]

Trez definitely needs to close out games. No doubt about that. And in my book he's good to go against 80% of the other centers in the league. But certain instances like the Gobert/Favors and Jokic/Plumlee combos(two teams that are ahead of us in the standings btw) wears and tires him down especially when Doc has him going the entire fourth quarter non stop which then leads to us not rebound from the lack of height and Trez tired as sh*t. Gotta have Zubac, Motley or whoever give him at least a five minute spell or move Trez to the four spots for 5-6 minutes. Something

I agree in principle. Here's the thing, though--Trezz only played 27 minutes against the Jazz.

Hey, I’m not disagreeing—I’m just saying that Trezz is not as good when going up against starters. I agree we don’t have anyone better right now as a closer right now—but we’re going to take a hit. And we have been all season. The Clippers have had 32 “clutch time” games—games where the score was within 5 points either way with 5 minutes left in the game. Trezz has played in 30 of those games, and his production/effectiveness has dropped.

Code: Select all

PER 36                       PTS   REB  AST  TO
Trezz in clutch time         16.9  8.4  2.2  2.6
Trezz the rest of the time   21.4  9.1  2.7  2.1


It isn’t like others have that falloff. Lou takes a step up (which you kinda figure). So does Gallo. Shai is down about 12% in scoring. Bev drops in scoring and assists but goes (way) up in rebounding and blocks … he’s playing the D while Lou is out there. Of the five Clipper players that have the most minutes in crunch time this season (Lou, Bev, Gallo, Tobias, Trezz), Trezz is the lowest in +/-.

I’m not saying he shouldn’t be our closer. I’m saying that it’s not the best role for him. Other teams play their starters at times like that. Trezz still puts up good numbers, but not as good. Trezz is a bench player, not a clutch time player. Lou Williams, OTOH, is a clutch time player. But yeah, we’ll keep riding Trezz now because he’s more of a known quantity and is somewhat, though less, effective at those times.

And, look--Trezz plays plenty in the fourth; 9 out of 12 minutes. But that means he's only playing 17 minutes in the three previous quarters. Dude just turned 25. I don't think it's his motor. When Trezz gets outplayed at the end of games it's because the players he goes against are better than he is.

I think we're on the same page and thx for the stats to back it up. I've been saying our strategy all year is to try to play even with our patchwork of starters and then get fat with our 2nd unit over theirs.

Which has worked most games. The hole in the strategy is that at crunch time, the opps' starters are in. Lou is fine, as is defensive maniac Pat Bev. Gallo, however, falls off quite a bit too:

period FG 3-ptFG

1st 51.0% /50.6
2nd 43.6 /40.7
3rd 43.9 /41.3
4th 38.4 /37.1%


And of course, you have the numbers on Trezz in crunch time. Even if they fall off, they're still quite good. I'd be happy to get that production anytime from our other bigs.

Some interesting splits on Gallo:

https://stats.nba.com/player/201568/traditional/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Split=ingame


Bad when we're down by 6-10 pts 35%/32%
Incredible when down 1-5 52%/58%
Excellent when tied 45%/47%
Good when we're ahead 1-5 46%/39%
Meh when up by 6-10 36%/ 37%