Working Hard Or Hardly Working: Clippers vs. Lottery Teams

[Wammy Giveaway]

Lottery teams are supposed to be gimmes. An under .500 team with a long losing streak and out of the playoffs should be beatable. In fact, you're practically required to beat them.

The Lakers, as of this recording, are a dominant 23-1 against lottery teams, their lone blemish made possible by the Portland Trailblazers. The Clippers, on the other hand... don't seem invested in feasting on the bottom dwellers. So they have a 20-7 record vs. teams seeded 9th and under, but when you get to the nitty gritty of the losses, they all add up.

Vs. Suns
- First game of 25-game suspension for De'Andre Ayton
- Suns: snap a 12-game losing streak to Clippers
- 2-1 then, 21-32 now

Vs. Hawks
- No Leonard, no George
- G-Leaguer John Collins double-double 33 PTS 16 REB

Vs. Spurs
- Spurs: aiming for league record 23-straight playoff appearances
- 7-13 then, 22-29 now, 5 games away from 8th seed
- First loss for Clippers whenever Leonard and George played together

Vs. Pelicans
- Derrick Favors: double-double 20 PTS career high 20 REB, first 20-20 game
- Paul George's debut

Vs. Bulls
- First loss for Clippers whenever they led by 10 PTS or more

Vs. Kings
- De'Aaron Fox: career high 34 PTS, FIRST EVER win vs. Clippers (was 0-8)
- Kings: franchise record 21 3-pointers (of 41 attempts, 0.500)
- Leonard late scratch

Vs. Timberwolves
- 2-way contract Jordan McLaughlin career high 24 PTS
- Incoming traded player Malik Beasley career high seven 3s
- Timberwolves: worst in 3P shooting (0.325) records franchise record 26 3-pointers (of 44 attempts, 0.591)
- Timberwolves: 22nd in opponent 3P shooting (.363) allows 9 of 26 (0.346), tying with Pacers at 8th
- With Leonard and George

If they're working hard, the Clippers should at least have close games. In 27 total games versus lottery teams, Clippers score 120.48 PPG while their opponents score 111.59 PPG. But, if I did just the games where they lost (seven), the numbers almost flip-flop, for now it's the Clippers scoring less than 111 PPG (109.28), while their opponents score a PPG that is nearly identical to Clippers (120.48).

Or maybe, they could be hardly working, and for an admirable cause: keeping Leonard and George fresh for the playoffs. Given how the Clippers have a long history of injuries that tread between catastrophic and heartbreaking (Shaun Livingston's broken leg) to stupid and reckless (the Blake Griffin punching incident), the fear of one of their major players getting hurt at the most inopportune of times causes them to prioritize health over everything else, thus Popoviching games become the norm. However, the Clippers are winless when Kawhi Leonard does not play, and when you compare that to non-Clipper teams like Spurs and Raptors who both have experience in winning without Leonard, this is a fitting character trait for a historically losing franchise. Theoretically, Doc could take advantage of Clipper's woes to the point of dropping down to the 8th seed, where they could attempt to pull off an upset over the Lakers who, to their credit, have won 2 games already. But this is folly, for suppose the Lakers take the Clippers seriously in the 1st round.

Here's another scenario: pretend Clippers still hold onto 2nd seed. Their first round opponent happens to be a team they uncharacteristically lost to when they were a lottery team. The opponent uses the game the Clippers didn't take seriously as motivation to pull off an unbelievable upset. Furthermore, if it's a sweep. Doc River teams have never been swept in the playoffs. And if they manage to get some players ejected from a game, especially if it's in the series clinching game, then it will be looked at as the ultimate Clippers loss.

This is what I'm trying to say in this post: Clippers need to take lottery teams seriously. Sure they won't see those teams seeded 9th or below. But at any moment, one of those bottom dwelling teams could come creeping back into the playoff picture, and maybe make a statement.

[Yogatti]

Can't really blame them for not taking the regular season seriously. The Clippers are somehow the 2nd seed in the West despite Kawhi's load management and this team being injury riddled the entire season(Paul George, Pat Bev, and Landry Shamet in November). If they can go coast throughout the regular season and still be 3 games behind the Lakers then this mental approach will just keep continue to the end.

Adding Marcus Morris to the team will help out alot though so just wait to see how this team performs post ASB

[MartinRiggs]

I hope it is only lack of effort.

I care for every game,can't help it so theese looses hurt.

[esqtvd]

If you dive on the floor for a loose ball vs a lottery team, you're an idiot.

If you're on a lottery team and you don't dive on the floor for a loose ball, you're an even bigger idiot.



case closed

[MartinToVaught]

Seeding matters. If we're stuck in that third or fourth seed come playoff time, we're going to wish they took these games more seriously.

[esqtvd]

Lob City was all about seeding. And we limped into the playoffs every year. It's a new day. Kawhi is setting the tone. It's Kawhi's team: Win as much as you can but playing every game like a Game 7 [IN FEBRUARY!] is definitely not in the plan.

[MartinToVaught]

Lob City was all about seeding.

Lob City was perpetually stuck in the third or fourth seed with the hardest first-round matchups. Maybe if they didn't have the annual bad losses to the Nets, Kings, Pelicans, etc. things would have been different.

[esqtvd]

well you're entitled to your opinion but Lob City showed up dinged up every year

Kawhi says screw that
and Doc is backing him up

we're in Popovich mode

[MartinToVaught]

well you're entitled to your opinion but Lob City showed up dinged up every year

Kawhi says screw that
and Doc is backing him up

we're in Popovich mode

And this team has been fully healthy for how many games this year? I want to say three. Apparently "Popovich mode" isn't doing much to keep the team healthy either.

[esqtvd]

well you're entitled to your opinion but Lob City showed up dinged up every year

Kawhi says screw that
and Doc is backing him up

we're in Popovich mode

And this team has been fully healthy for how many games this year? I want to say three. Apparently "Popovich mode" isn't doing much to keep the team healthy either.

so your answer is they should exert themselves even more

that's illogical

[og15]

If you dive on the floor for a loose ball vs a lottery team, you're an idiot.

If you're on a lottery team and you don't dive on the floor for a loose ball, you're an even bigger idiot.



case closed

It's not all or nothing though. There is a middle ground between risking injuring yourself diving for loose balls and playing lackadaisical. That's what they have to find in nights like this, it's equally wrong to just excuse lazy play as it is to expect them to go all out in game 50 something vs a lottery team.

Lob City was all about seeding. And we limped into the playoffs every year. It's a new day. Kawhi is setting the tone. It's Kawhi's team: Win as much as you can but playing every game like a Game 7 [IN FEBRUARY!] is definitely not in the plan.

Lob city wasn't all about seeding, they never got the right seeding (never top 2), and I used to try to remind people then that statistically, barring opponent injury or an anomaly, a top 3 record is an indicator of being able to get to the WCF and top 2 for the finals. In fact better seeding would have given them easier first round matchups instead of having to grind to 7 games against a tough team in the first round every year.

Now of course they had in season injuries, didn't have the depth and talent of this team and were being beaten in seeding by teams just as good or better. Some of their injuries had nothing to do with how much guys had played in the RS. Doc even reduced some of the guys minutes and they rested at the end of seasons.

[esqtvd]

If you dive on the floor for a loose ball vs a lottery team, you're an idiot.

If you're on a lottery team and you don't dive on the floor for a loose ball, you're an even bigger idiot.



case closed

It's not all or nothing though. There is a middle ground between risking injuring yourself diving for loose balls and playing lackadaisical. That's what they have to find in nights like this, it's equally wrong to just excuse lazy play as it is to expect them to go all out in game 50 something vs a lottery team.

Lob City was all about seeding. And we limped into the playoffs every year. It's a new day. Kawhi is setting the tone. It's Kawhi's team: Win as much as you can but playing every game like a Game 7 [IN FEBRUARY!] is definitely not in the plan.

Lob city wasn't all about seeding, they never got the right seeding (never top 2), and I used to try to remind people then that statistically,barring injury or an anomaly, a top 3 record is an indicator of being able to get to the WCF and top 2 for the finals. In fact better seeding could have given them easier first round matchups instead of having to grind to 7 games against a tough team in the first round every year. Now of course they had in season injuries, didn't have the depth and talent of this team and were being beaten in seeding by teams just as good or better.

If they had fought a littlegetting to Doc started reducing the guys minutes and they rested at the end of seasons.

Lob City played, and Doc coached, every game like it was a Game 7. Fighting for seeding was the strategy. Unfortunately it resulted in being perpetually banged up. In the end, I think we'll agree, our lack of depth did us in. [I blame tying up the lion's share of the salary cap in just 3 players, especially DJ.]


I am not defending lackadaisical play; my point here is that the Wolves last night, and the Hawks recently, get up for teams like the Clips and come at you with playoff intensity, throwing their bodies around and diving for loose balls and the like. To match their intensity is unwise. Most of the time their lack of skill will catch up with them and we win the game. But on those magical nights when every shot is falling, David is gonna beat Goliath.

I mean, 99 times out of 100, David's slingshot misses Goliath's head and the giant eats him for dinner.

[MartinToVaught]

Lob City played, and Doc coached, every game like it was a Game 7.

LOL, that is absolutely not true. Never mind regular season games, there were actual Game 7's that Lob City didn't show up for.

[og15]

If you dive on the floor for a loose ball vs a lottery team, you're an idiot.

If you're on a lottery team and you don't dive on the floor for a loose ball, you're an even bigger idiot.



case closed

It's not all or nothing though. There is a middle ground between risking injuring yourself diving for loose balls and playing lackadaisical. That's what they have to find in nights like this, it's equally wrong to just excuse lazy play as it is to expect them to go all out in game 50 something vs a lottery team.

Lob City was all about seeding. And we limped into the playoffs every year. It's a new day. Kawhi is setting the tone. It's Kawhi's team: Win as much as you can but playing every game like a Game 7 [IN FEBRUARY!] is definitely not in the plan.

Lob city wasn't all about seeding, they never got the right seeding (never top 2), and I used to try to remind people then that statistically,barring injury or an anomaly, a top 3 record is an indicator of being able to get to the WCF and top 2 for the finals. In fact better seeding could have given them easier first round matchups instead of having to grind to 7 games against a tough team in the first round every year. Now of course they had in season injuries, didn't have the depth and talent of this team and were being beaten in seeding by teams just as good or better.

If they had fought a littlegetting to Doc started reducing the guys minutes and they rested at the end of seasons.

Lob City played, and Doc coached, every game like it was a Game 7. Fighting for seeding was the strategy. Unfortunately it resulted in being perpetually banged up. In the end, I think we'll agree, our lack of depth did us in. [I blame tying up the lion's share of the salary cap in just 3 players, especially DJ.]


I am not defending lackadaisical play; my point here is that the Wolves last night, and the Hawks recently, get up for teams like the Clips and come at you with playoff intensity, throwing their bodies around and diving for loose balls and the like. To match their intensity is unwise. Most of the time their lack of skill will catch up with them and we win the game. But on those magical nights when every shot is falling, David is gonna beat Goliath.

I mean, 99 times out of 100, David's slingshot misses Goliath's head and the giant eats him for dinner.

Hmm, I think this might be a little revisionist. They didn't play every game like game 7. They had seasons where they were throwing out full bench lineups that would constantly loose leads, and Doc didn't want to stagger or play the starters more because he didn't want to overwork them and therefore let it be. Of course they had far less depth and were not as top heavy in scoring and offensive talent to be able to coast as much and still win as many games.

Teams can and will get banged up no matter what you do with minutes. The Clippers also just had players that were not very durable. Look at where Blake is now, and look at Paul only getting a durable season (since 14-15 and 15-16) again after changing trainers and diet.

There were a couple of games in that span that they could have won if the starters played 3-5 more minutes, but they were kept on the bench to avoid overplaying them and they were unable to retake the leads that were lost. There was no big injury issue in 13-14, just lost to a bigger OKC team. Paul had his injury in 14-15, and he played 82 games, but Blake missing 15 and Jamal missing 18 games did not afford him the luxury of rest. 15-16 and 16-17 were hurt not by overplay injuries, but just lack of durability injuries. Blake played 35 and 61 games and was very injured or re-injured early in the first round despite missing a good chunk of the regular season both years. The Clippers bench was not winning them games after 12-13, before Doc, because it got weaker, but Doc was not increasing his starters minutes than try and make up for the poor bench.

I agree about the last paragraph, this is the NBA, and these are still NBA caliber players and guys can get hot at any point. Atlanta game with no. Kawhi and George is irrelevant to me, Clippers without those two are not a good team themselves when the bench becomes starters and out of rotation guys are in the rotation. To be fair it's hard to combat 59% 3PT on 44 attempts. Wolves were +17 on three's.

I'm just saying that I don't think we should hyperbolize it either or make it seem like the guys have to either go full Westbrook every night or play like they are just chilling, which I don't think nis your point, but it writes like that, lol

[esqtvd]

It's not all or nothing though. There is a middle ground between risking injuring yourself diving for loose balls and playing lackadaisical. That's what they have to find in nights like this, it's equally wrong to just excuse lazy play as it is to expect them to go all out in game 50 something vs a lottery team.


Lob city wasn't all about seeding, they never got the right seeding (never top 2), and I used to try to remind people then that statistically,barring injury or an anomaly, a top 3 record is an indicator of being able to get to the WCF and top 2 for the finals. In fact better seeding could have given them easier first round matchups instead of having to grind to 7 games against a tough team in the first round every year. Now of course they had in season injuries, didn't have the depth and talent of this team and were being beaten in seeding by teams just as good or better.

If they had fought a littlegetting to Doc started reducing the guys minutes and they rested at the end of seasons.

Lob City played, and Doc coached, every game like it was a Game 7. Fighting for seeding was the strategy. Unfortunately it resulted in being perpetually banged up. In the end, I think we'll agree, our lack of depth did us in. [I blame tying up the lion's share of the salary cap in just 3 players, especially DJ.]


I am not defending lackadaisical play; my point here is that the Wolves last night, and the Hawks recently, get up for teams like the Clips and come at you with playoff intensity, throwing their bodies around and diving for loose balls and the like. To match their intensity is unwise. Most of the time their lack of skill will catch up with them and we win the game. But on those magical nights when every shot is falling, David is gonna beat Goliath.

I mean, 99 times out of 100, David's slingshot misses Goliath's head and the giant eats him for dinner.

Hmm, I think this might be a little revisionist. They didn't play every game like game 7. They had seasons where they were throwing out full bench lineups that would constantly loose leads, and Doc didn't want to stagger or play the starters more because he didn't want to overwork them and therefore let it be. Of course they had far less depth and were not as top heavy in scoring and offensive talent to be able to coast as much and still win as many games.

Teams can and will get banged up no matter what you do with minutes. The Clippers also just had players that were not very durable. Look at where Blake is now, and look at Paul only getting a durable season (since 14-15 and 15-16) again after changing trainers and diet.

There were a couple of games in that span that they could have won if the starters played 3-5 more minutes, but they were kept on the bench to avoid overplaying them and they were unable to retake the leads that were lost. There was no big injury issue in 13-14, just lost to a bigger OKC team. Paul had his injury in 14-15, and he played 82 games, but Blake missing 15 and Jamal missing 18 games did not afford him the luxury of rest. 15-16 and 16-17 were hurt not by overplay injuries, but just lack of durability injuries. Blake played 35 and 61 games and was very injured or re-injured early in the first round despite missing a good chunk of the regular season both years. The Clippers bench was not winning them games after 12-13, before Doc, because it got weaker, but Doc was not increasing his starters minutes than try and make up for the poor bench.

I agree about the last paragraph, this is the NBA, and these are still NBA caliber players and guys can get hot at any point. Atlanta game with no. Kawhi and George is irrelevant to me, Clippers without those two are not a good team themselves when the bench becomes starters and out of rotation guys are in the rotation. To be fair it's hard to combat 59% 3PT on 44 attempts. Wolves were +17 on three's.

I'm just saying that I don't think we should hyperbolize it either or make it seem like the guys have to either go full Westbrook every night or play like they are just chilling, which I don't think nis your point, but it writes like that, lol

no it's not my point LOL
but I think the problem may be on the readers' end

and as to who's the revisionist here re Lob City, it's really not worth litigating but on my old board the Doc-bashing was all about him running his top players into the ground and I rather agreed

point is, Doc's certainly not coaching like that now
and I approve