2017 Offseason Thread

[wammi_K]

Clips should sign Rudy Gay!!


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[nickhx2]

i believe his contract is worth 18m and while he said he planned on opting out, he hurt himself this season so he might just stay in his contract to get the last year of his contract.

if he were to opt out it'd be with the intention of getting something similar or more in terms of money, so signing him wouldn't really be possible at his price.

[nickhx2]

oh ok that was a post based on him already opting out. either way signing him outright isn't gonna be a thing cause of blake/cp3 $$$

[Quake Griffin]

If CP stays, who has to go for us to have meaningful cap space?


Griffin + Crawford + Austin?

[clip set]

If CP stays, who has to go for us to have meaningful cap space?


Griffin + Crawford + Austin?

I don't think it's possible. If everyone with player options except Blake pick up their options and we retain CP's cap hold, we're already at about $96mm. That's if we renounce everyone possible except CP. If we trade Jamal and Austin for pure cap relief that'd free up another $26mm and put us at about $70mm. That'd give us about $31mm of cap space based on the projection for next year. That doesn't seem very plausible though.

[TucsonClip]

Gaining cap space for this summer does nothing for us unless Durant decides to hop ship.

[nickhx2]

yeah cap space is pretty useless this offseason. if anything we'd want cap space to try and grab paul george which would be the year after. but if you're clearing cap space to do that, you're essentially throwing away one year for cp3 to play with scraps for, which means you 100% won't have him re-signing with the team.

[madmaxmedia]

I think the reason you can't get on board with that is because that isn't what I'm saying. I'm saying that the majority of he draft picks haven't been that bad. Bullock was a reasonable pick. Again, like I said, Wilcox was an awful pick, so obviously I'm not saying that Doc's drafts were not bad in any way shape or form if I'm saying that Wilcox was a horrible pick.

Dawson despite being old was a good pick for that range. Johnson seems like a decent pick. Stone is the kind of pick we want from the second round, young potential guys. Michineau, again, I'm going from a limited view, but the pick didn't make sense to me, but he is supposedly another potential pick and even a draft and stash which goes against all what Doc did with his first two drafts.

In the end, my feeling is that Doc should have never had the role, but from his limited view as a coach with that role, his draft picks weren't all bad. Even trading draft picks in itself is not bad, it just depends on what you are trading those draft picks for. 82games.com back when they were still relevant did a study on the expected player level from draft picks, so of course trading a pick can make sense.

At the same time, if you are put in charge of basketball operations you should have some sense of duty of guiding the short and long-term direction of the franchise, not constantly trading away picks that you hope will help you as coach win this season.

I think most peoples' complaints are not specifically just about who we drafted when we had draft picks, it's Rivers overall overemphasis on the present at the expense of the future. And then when those bets don't pay off, he doubles down because hey, surprise, we don't have any decent young prospects that can be developed into starters. In the right situation, of course it's reasonable for a 50+ win team to trade a 1st for a veteran player who can provide immediate help. But I feel like at one point it really started to become throwing good money after bad.

I agree that it's not very productive to list all the players the Clippers could have drafted. But Rivers has established a trend of picking older guys who might be more ready to contribute but have little upside (when he hasn't already traded away the pick.) So how are we going to ever improve the roster or find a way out of this dead end? Neil Olshey generally had higher picks, but even with the lower picks was able to find some guys who became big time NBA players (Bledsoe, Deandre), because he took some chances when he saw the future upside. These were 2 obviously raw or risky (Bledsoe injury) picks but had high upside. Not all are going to pan out, but Clippers have not had any exciting prospects in awhile.

We have reached well beyond the point of diminishing returns with Rivers' overall personnel approach, and yet are doomed to continue it because it has left us with no other options.

[QRich3]

I think the main problem here is the Dudley trade. Had it not happened, there's a reasonable case to assume the risk of trading a pick for Jeff Green, even if it ended up being a bad trade, but at least you are still only one pick down and have room to recover, and maybe a trade for Melo happens in the past trade deadline. But the Dudley trade just made no sense at all, and is the biggest reason for depth being crippled in the last half a decade. Not only you give away a decent player on a great contract at your position of most need, you pay a future pick to do it, and you only get dead capspace for the next 5 years in return. It just makes no freakin sense.

I know there's been credible sources that say it's not the case, but I still blame this on them not knowing the rules and being hard capped and over the apron, thus breaking the rules, and somehow the league gave them a pass under the counter if they managed to undo that mess quickly. Which they did by killing the team's depth and future. There's just no other possible explanation for that trade.

Deandre was an Elgin pick by the way, who woulda thunk it. But yeah, he was the kind of long shot/high upside pick we should've been makin all these years. Even if they barely see the court and 9 out of every 10 are out of the league by their 2nd year.

[nickhx2]

yeah it's hard to have even imagined that the dudley trade could have this much of an effect. this team could definitely have been something else.

[og15]

Clips should sign Rudy Gay!!


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Coming off an Achilles injury? His best position is probably as a stretch 4 now too, not a good idea

Sent from my LG-D852 using RealGM mobile app

[nickhx2]

i imagine he had a conversation where he had to ask himself "do i hate the kings more? or money more?"

[TucsonClip]

I think the main problem here is the Dudley trade. Had it not happened, there's a reasonable case to assume the risk of trading a pick for Jeff Green, even if it ended up being a bad trade, but at least you are still only one pick down and have room to recover, and maybe a trade for Melo happens in the past trade deadline. But the Dudley trade just made no sense at all, and is the biggest reason for depth being crippled in the last half a decade. Not only you give away a decent player on a great contract at your position of most need, you pay a future pick to do it, and you only get dead capspace for the next 5 years in return. It just makes no freakin sense.

I know there's been credible sources that say it's not the case, but I still blame this on them not knowing the rules and being hard capped and over the apron, thus breaking the rules, and somehow the league gave them a pass under the counter if they managed to undo that mess quickly. Which they did by killing the team's depth and future. There's just no other possible explanation for that trade.

Deandre was an Elgin pick by the way, who woulda thunk it. But yeah, he was the kind of long shot/high upside pick we should've been makin all these years. Even if they barely see the court and 9 out of every 10 are out of the league by their 2nd year.

Yes, the Dudley trade was a complete blunder and many here (myself included) scolded Doc for it. I wrote articles about it.

Not only did Doc not allow Dudley to heal, but he played all year hurt, and then Doc dumped him along with that pick. Just complete ineptness at its finest.

[madmaxmedia]

I know there's been credible sources that say it's not the case, but I still blame this on them not knowing the rules and being hard capped and over the apron, thus breaking the rules, and somehow the league gave them a pass under the counter if they managed to undo that mess quickly. Which they did by killing the team's depth and future. There's just no other possible explanation for that trade.

LOL I don't have one either. I forgot the details surrounding the Dudley trade, Googled it, and interestingly found this:

http://heathoops.com/2014/08/los-angeles-clippers-salary-cap-maneuvering-in-action/

The NBA answered my question. They would’ve allowed the Clippers to exceed the hard cap by virtue of Jared Dudley’s unlikely bonus.

That means the Clippers really faced no imminent hard cap issues at all. After they triggered the hard cap by signing Spencer Hawes (MLE) and Jordan Farmar (BAE), they could’ve simply signed a thirteenth player, increasing team salary for purposes of the apron to $80.7 million – still $108,985 below the apron – and played out the regular season on that basis.
...
So, to summarize the Clippers’ activities over the past three days: In order to free up an additional $3.30M of room below the hard cap and replace Dudley with up to four new minimum-salaried players, the Clippers: (i) traded away their 2017 first round draft pick and (ii) incurred a $950K salary cap charge for the next five years.

[TucsonClip]

I also would be interested in taking a flier on Jordan Bell and seeing if his jumper can ever come around. I doubt Doc would ever play him, but he has decent size to help in the front court, blocks shots, rebounds above average, defends, good athlete. Hes the type of defender that helps vs. small lineups.

15 points, 7 board, 5 assists, 5 blocks game 1 at the combine.

Wingspan isn't where you hope it would be, but the guy always comes to play

[wco81]

https://www.thescore.com/news/1299053

[TucsonClip]

Diallo with the second best max vertical in combine history at 44.5" and with a 6'11.5" wingspan.

[TucsonClip]

https://www.thescore.com/news/1299053

I wouldnt pay him that either. We can facilitate for the Knicks though.

[QRich3]

LOL I don't have one either. I forgot the details surrounding the Dudley trade, Googled it, and interestingly found this:

http://heathoops.com/2014/08/los-angeles-clippers-salary-cap-maneuvering-in-action/

Yeah, that's the credible source I meant, Albert Nahmad knows his stuff and usually is on the money with his sources. But I just can't believe that, no matter how clueless you might think someone is, no sane person gives away two valuable pieces that his team needs a lot and gets negative value in return (bad contracts to stretch-waive), if there isn't another reason that makes him do it. In my head all of this played out in a way that the league did indeed tell them they messed up and were in an irregular situation, but they allowed them to clean the mess by getting under it quickly before someone else noticed. Obviously the league would never admit to that, so they leaked through Albert that there was no such irregular situation. Only way I can make sense of all of that.

The Redick thing, I think it's just posturing and I think he's probably still gonna end up a Clipper next season. Not sure if the NY thing has legs, but if it doesn't, I see him taking a small discount to stay here.

By the way, I still don't get what's the problem for NY not to want Crawford and preferring to sign Redick to a multi year contract. Crawford would be the perfect veteran tank commander for them, expiring, good influence for the young ones, and he will absolutely not help you win one single game.

Yes, the Dudley trade was a complete blunder and many here (myself included) scolded Doc for it. I wrote articles about it.

All of us did, just went to watch the thread here when it happened, and it's pretty hilarious to watch how people gradually go from being glad that Dudley is gone to full panic mode as the trade details start to emerge lol

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1342782

[madmaxmedia]

Worst part is that some of these trades are still 'on the books'. Going forward, we don't have our 1st round picks in 2017 (Jared Dudley trade) and 2019 (Jeff Green.) Ugh.