POLL: Tobias Harris Turns Down $80 Million | What's the Right Price?

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Scott Cacciola, New York Times (11/14/8)

And Harris had a set of skills he wanted to improve over the summer, starting with his ability to take defenders off the dribble. That had been a point of emphasis from Rivers, who hoped that Harris, known for much of his career as a spot-up shooter, could hone his abilities as a playmaker. But Harris worked to address other areas of his game as well: developing a more consistent 3-point shot, drawing contact so he could shoot more free throws and becoming a better defender.

During a chemistry-building trip to Miami, Harris began to sense the possibilities.

“This is a tough group of guys,” he said, “guys who wants to prove to themselves more than anything that they can be legit players and do things to help a team win.”

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Through 13 games, Harris has emerged as a steadying force and a potential All-Star, averaging 20.4 points and 8.8 rebounds while shooting 50.2 percent from the field, all career highs.

Lob City Is Dead, But the Clippers May Be the Best Show in L.A.

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Vincent Goodwill, Yahoo Sports (11/20/18)

As comical as it may have been, he went directly to the Clippers front office and coach Doc Rivers for clarity. He mentally prepared himself for harsh truths, that as a player who turned down a lucrative extension in the offseason he would be vulnerable in trade talks.

“It is hard, but you have to be honest and there’s times when you tell [players], ‘I can’t tell you.’ I tell guys that,” Rivers told Yahoo Sports. “But with Tobias it was easy. I was pretty confident he wasn’t going anywhere. That one wasn’t that hard for us. We love Tobias. And we think he’s part of our future here.”

The Clippers were interested in Butler before he was traded from Minnesota, league sources told Yahoo, but they envisioned Harris and Butler working together, not being swapped for one another.

“He’s a professional,” a member of the Clippers’ staff told Yahoo. “He takes care of his body, he’s about the right things even when nobody’s watching. He’s a great example for our young guys.”

Tobias Harris Not Letting Trade Life Get in the Way of Leading Surprising Clippers

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[simon24]

LAC going to have to offer him the max to keep him.

[Ranma]

[mkwest]

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[QRich3]

That Kirk Goldsberry article is a great simple way to explain what Doc and them are doing to make this team work offensively, good insight. I had no idea Goldsberry was back to ESPN, I guess he's not working in the Spurs front office and team USA anymore?

[wco81]

Interesting that there is only 1 vote for more than 4 years $25 million.

If Harris maintains his current form, hard to imagine him getting less than at least $35 million average per year for 4 or 5 years.

If the Clippers win 50-55 games, at least get to the second round, which is what the CP3-Blake-DJ teams did, do they re-sign Harris no matter what?

Let's say the they get two max free agents. Do they still sign Tobias and go way over the luxury tax? Obviously Ballmer has the resources but what will he pay for the next potential dynasty?

Though if they get two max free agents, do they really need Tobias?

Tobias makes a strong case for a big contract as he will turn 27 this July and start a big extension a year or two younger than when the Clippers gave Blake his big extension. He hasn't had the injury concerns yet so a 4 or 5 year deal starting at age 27 will mean it will cover his prime, probably to the peak.

Kawhi will be 28 in June and KD will be 31 in September.

[illastrate]

Interesting that there is only 1 vote for more than 4 years $25 million.

If Harris maintains his current form, hard to imagine him getting less than at least $35 million average per year for 4 or 5 years.

If the Clippers win 50-55 games, at least get to the second round, which is what the CP3-Blake-DJ teams did, do they re-sign Harris no matter what?

Let's say the they get two max free agents. Do they still sign Tobias and go way over the luxury tax? Obviously Ballmer has the resources but what will he pay for the next potential dynasty?

Though if they get two max free agents, do they really need Tobias?

Tobias makes a strong case for a big contract as he will turn 27 this July and start a big extension a year or two younger than when the Clippers gave Blake his big extension. He hasn't had the injury concerns yet so a 4 or 5 year deal starting at age 27 will mean it will cover his prime, probably to the peak.

Kawhi will be 28 in June and KD will be 31 in September.

I think the Clippers don't even need to nab 2 max FA's. Just land a big fish like Kawhi and re-sign Tobias as your 2nd big FA essentially. The way Tobias' career is trending, he could be worth max money very soon.

[Ranma]

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[Galloisdaman]

I'm happy for Toby and the Clips but kind of surprised some other players did not put up bigger numbers. I hope Toby is proud. That is a big honor.

[Quake Griffin]

Betting on himself is turning out to be a smart investment for him. For him and his family’s sake, I hope he stays healthy enough to cash out.

For the Clippers:
Hide the progress, so we can keep the price tag low.


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[Ranma]

Let's say the they get two max free agents. Do they still sign Tobias and go way over the luxury tax? Obviously Ballmer has the resources but what will he pay for the next potential dynasty?

Though if they get two max free agents, do they really need Tobias?

Tobias makes a strong case for a big contract as he will turn 27 this July and start a big extension a year or two younger than when the Clippers gave Blake his big extension. He hasn't had the injury concerns yet so a 4 or 5 year deal starting at age 27 will mean it will cover his prime, probably to the peak.

Kawhi will be 28 in June and KD will be 31 in September.

I think the Clippers don't even need to nab 2 max FA's. Just land a big fish like Kawhi and re-sign Tobias as your 2nd big FA essentially. The way Tobias' career is trending, he could be worth max money very soon.

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[QRich3]

Glad for him, he's putting in the work. But as I've been saying, I don't wanna lose sight of what his next contract is gonna mean for us. At this rate, we'll likely end up giving him a $190M contract that becomes untradeable the second he signs it. If we traded Blake away because we didn't want to pay him $39M in 2021, but then we have to pay Tobias $43M in 2023, I'm gonna lose it.

Hope they manage to sign him for less, but the way things are going, it's gonna be that or letting him go for nothing. I still think best course of action would've been to trade him for future assets, but with him having just a few months left on his contract, and the prospect of his next monster contract, I'm not sure there's gonna be a lot on the table for him now.

[Quake Griffin]

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Another reason he is NOT our top priority this season. I think that discussion is earlier in this thread.

He is landing on the stars for us....
if we're shooting for the moon.

[Ranma]

Harrison Barnes lit up the Clippers on Saturday and is currently on a contract that pays him $24.1 million this season with a player option for $25.1 million next season and is generally viewed as overpaid at that rate. However, Tobias Harris turned down a 4-year offer from the Clips with an average annual average value of $20 million and there are concerns that we'll have to fork over at least $35 million per in order to retain him.

Granted, Harris is the better player but Barnes is actually putting up fairly similar numbers across the board both for his career and this season albeit not as efficiently. Both are 26 years of age and are within 1 inch and 10 lbs. of each other in terms of build. Is Tobias 75% 50% better than Harrison to warrant such high salary considerations? I seriously doubt that.

I've liked both players for quite some time now and have spiritedly advocated for acquiring them in years past. Barnes was one of my all-time favorite draft prospects at the time even if he's never lived up to his billing at its peak. Harris was someone I've admonished Doc for not holding out for in the trade of Eric Bledsoe when Orlando was clearly in hot pursuit of what we had to offer.

While I certainly want to keep Tobias onboard regardless of what we do in the off-season, I still only see him as a 3rd option for a championship contending team and would not at all panic into giving him a max offer since he doesn't qualify as a full-max worthy proposition IMO, especially with more attractive options that look to be available this summer and us holding his Bird rights.


Edit: Adjusted the question of Tobias's relative worth compared to Harrison's from 75% to 50%. Yes, I realize the $10 million difference between Barnes's current contract and the hypothetical $35 million for Harris is 40% but I'm also figuring in that Barnes is considered overpaid right now.

[wco81]

If one assumes that Clippers having a great season makes them more attractive to free agents, aside from the cap space and the city they play in, do the Clippers have to assure free agents that they plan to retain Tobias, if he's seen as one of the main reasons why the Clippers have this great season?

[Ranma]

If one assumes that Clippers having a great season makes them more attractive to free agents, aside from the cap space and the city they play in, do the Clippers have to assure free agents that they plan to retain Tobias, if he's seen as one of the main reasons why the Clippers have this great season?

Tobias Harris is certainly getting the biggest spotlight with the Clippers' current success, but Montrezl Harrell and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander offer up other attractive selling points. That also doesn't mention Lou Williams and Avery Bradley. The team reportedly tried to extend Patrick Beverley prior to this season and there is purported interest in retaining Boban Marjanovic (presumably at a reduced salary).

As I alluded to earlier, having Harris's Bird rights allows the Clippers to take their time and explore other options. Let's say that the organization did significantly overpay to keep Harris in order to attract someone like, say, Kawhi Leonard. That doesn't necessarily put us in a bad situation. Similar to how Blake Griffin was dealt, the Clippers could put up with Harris for a couple of seasons and attempt to use him as a trade asset towards acquiring Anthony Davis or Giannis Antetokounmpo once they become available. It would most likely have to be the Greek Freak since the Brow is likely to be available as soon as this off-season while Tobias would be ineligible to be traded after signing an extension.

The Clippers also have the leeway of trying to secure 2 premier free agents without haphazardly risking the loss of Tobias since the aforementioned Bird rights affords the Clippers the chance to match or exceed offers he would receive on the open market. If the Clippers can secure agreements with some combination of Kawhi, Kevin Durant and Jimmy Butler, it may be worth letting go of Harris if his demands are too pricy and even trading Danilo Gallinari to boot. Even if we strike out with the premier free agents, we still have the option of overpaying for Khris Middleton in a worst-case scenario to cushion the blow, if that is somehow necessary.

All in all, I'd prefer to retain Tobias on a reasonable contract while bringing in Kawhi as the headline acquisition this summer and I think we have a pretty good likelihood of accomplishing that. Given that most, if not all, free agents will be playing the market cautiously from the outset in order to see what's available out there, the Clippers should have a good handle on what we can do with regards to our available cap space by the time it's time to make a decision on Tobias. Let's also not forget that agents and team representatives tend to negotiate early prior to the start of free agency.

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Montrezl Harrell: 82 OVR (+3)
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander: 78 OVR (+3)
Tobias Harris: 86 OVR (+2)
Patrick Beverley: 76 OVR (-1)

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