Jimmy Butler Showed Interest in Clippers; Traded To Philadelphia

MartinToVaught · Post #101 » by **MartinToVaught** » Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:00 pm

esqtvd wrote:Your plan to wait 3 years for Giannis in the hopes that he sours on Milwaukee, decides he doesn't hate LA after all, and that we'll outbid the other dozen teams who will be making a run at him is to be charitable, unrealistic at best.

It's a risk, but it's sure as hell better than overpaying for B-list stars so we can get a few more second-round exits during the Warriors' run of dominance.

In the meantime, we should keep building through the draft, developing young talent and stockpiling assets. Patience is a virtue.

Ranma · Post #102 » by **Ranma** » Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:46 pm

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Ranma · Post #103 » by **Ranma** » Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:21 am

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Ranma · Post #104 » by **Ranma** » Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:51 am

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Forte IV · Post #105 » by **Forte IV** » Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:26 am

I'm surprised the Bucks and Heat aren't on that list. I have a feeling he may end up in one of those two places.

Ranma · Post #106 » by **Ranma** » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:02 am

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esqtvd · Post #107 » by **esqtvd** » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:55 am

MartinToVaught wrote:
esqtvd wrote:Your plan to wait 3 years for Giannis in the hopes that he sours on Milwaukee, decides he doesn't hate LA after all, and that we'll outbid the other dozen teams who will be making a run at him is to be charitable, unrealistic at best.

It's a risk, but it's sure as hell better than overpaying for B-list stars so we can get a few more second-round exits during the Warriors' run of dominance.

"Risk" is...an understatement. It is not a plan, or a strategy. Illastrate successfully called your bluff and made you put your cards on the table.

No way Steve Ballmer let alone Jerry West is gonna do anything like waiting 3 years for a guy who's happy where he is and hates LA in hopes he changes his mind.

As for your arguing the exception against the rule--let's look at your miraculous exception:

Durant joined GSW partly because he's weak [per StephenA, and I agree], partly because he was miserable on and off the court in OKC, but also partly because he was Christian friends with Curry and Iggy

Durant grew close to Curry and fellow Golden State Warrior Andre Iguodala during the FIBA World Championships in 2010. USA Today reported they bonded while attending chapel sessions together.

The fact that all three men share a strong faith in Jesus Christ could make for an even stronger bond on the court.

I'll be charitable to KD and say it wasn't just ring-chasing. He went where he would be happiest and even took a pay cut to do it. It worked out well for him. As a sports fan, I'm meh on it, but as a fellow human being, I'm totally at his back. [Same goes for CP's exodus to HOU.]

And I'm no Lee Jenkins, but this sort of thing is why the Clips gave Jenkins major dough to move inside the NBA, for this kind of "soft" analysis, what makes people tick. There are no reasons I'm aware of--and none you have offered, or anyone else--that would indicate there's the slightest similarity to Giannis leaving Milwaukee for LA and the Clippers.

Frankly, we have a better chance of landing Durant. The only righteous "strategy"--Jerry West's and Steve Ballmer's--is to play it straight, build a great org and a winning culture, and hope to attract FAs for all the right reasons.

I'm 100% behind Ballmer and West. It's OK to play it straight.

Ranma · Post #108 » by **Ranma** » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:14 am

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esqtvd · Post #109 » by **esqtvd** » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:45 am

Forte IV wrote:I'm surprised the Bucks and Heat aren't on that list. I have a feeling he may end up in one of those two places.

I hear you Forte4. Per Jerry West--and I won't exclude Ballmer, Doc, and Frank--the Clippers now have an organizational philosophy.

The Golden Age was an ad hoc/forced/opportunistic marriage between BG and then CP dropping into our lap. Two top-10 players? In a 30-team league, you gotta go for it, and try to sort it out later.

Well, we didn't sort it out--nobody could.

I expect to be outbid for Butler, esp by a MIA or MIL in the East. Perhaps DEN or PHX in the West. Mark Cuban will make a run.

For us, Tobias-for-Butler would be the core of the deal as far as I can see, and I gotta nod towards the 2-way player so I'm clear there. And I think Pat Bev would help the Wolves' lack of intensity tremendously, but I don't think that'll quite swing it. Lou Williams too?

If I'm the Wolves [and esp Thibodaux in win-now mode], that would swing it. I'd rather not give up both Pat Bev and Lou because they're our leaders. Jimmy is not a leader--he's a fully realized Tobias on both ends of the floor.

I think Tobias-Pat Bev-Lou is a fair deal, esp since Pat and Toby are expiring anyway. It's actually parting with Lou that I have the hardest time with, even though the odds are that he'll never come close to repeating last year.

Thing is, I don't really like Jimmy Butler and I love Toby, Pat and Lou. What to do? What to do?

Ranma · Post #110 » by **Ranma** » Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:55 pm

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donemilio21 · Post #111 » by **donemilio21** » Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:47 pm

If we can do it for Gallo and couple of fillers, Im all for it. Even if we dont resign him.
I'd love a tough defensive lineup featuring Beverly, Bradley, Luc and Butler.

MartinToVaught · Post #112 » by **MartinToVaught** » Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:20 pm

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(For the record, Woj's article lists the Pistons, Rockets, Heat, Sixers and Blazers as teams trying to trade for Butler.)

MartinToVaught · Post #113 » by **MartinToVaught** » Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:24 pm

esqtvd wrote:Frankly, we have a better chance of landing Durant.

If Durant decides he wants to stop being a coward and start competing for rings again, then yes, you absolutely try to sign him. I just don't believe he's willing to walk away from the easy rings, though.

Akklaim1 · Post #114 » by **Akklaim1** » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:32 pm

Pretty sure the Warrior dominance would be over by now if their starting SF was still Harrison Barnes.

Ranma · Post #115 » by **Ranma** » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:48 pm

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Ranma · Post #116 » by **Ranma** » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:40 pm

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esqtvd · Post #117 » by **esqtvd** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:23 am

Tobias + Pat Bev are both expiring too, and that would be a fair deal

but would that deal make us any better?

both are character guys whereas Jimmy is, charitably, a question

HOU is reportedly offering Eric Gordon, who's signed for the next 2 years at a very affordable $14M

Vae Victus · Post #118 » by **Vae Victus** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:52 am

Clippers can’t be too cute with their trade offers. Gallo + garbage won’t get crap done. HOU can easily trump that offer with Gordon + scraps. If Clips wanna dump Gallo they have to put at least JRob into the package. With Gallo gone and no Dieng coming back the team will be sitting pretty in 2019 FA.

Gallo + JRob + PatBev for Butler + Tolliver

TPups get 2 players who can help win now (when healthy) and the best young asset among all the teams looking to deal. PatBev can be spun off to PHX for a SRP if TPups are allergic to the tax.

Any deal that doesn’t include at least JRob or SEGA means HOU will swoop in with EGordon + whatever salary that keeps em under the tax + FRP. Gordon is on a decent deal and can help them fill Butlers starting spot.

Look at using JRob as to not only get Butler but also to clear Gallo’s 2019 salary. Any deal that doesn’t JRob or Tobias as a base really isn’t gonna fly with all the other suitors who can beat those deals.

esqtvd · Post #119 » by **esqtvd** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:22 am

Vae Victus wrote:Clippers can’t be too cute with their trade offers. Gallo + garbage won’t get crap done. HOU can easily trump that offer with Gordon + scraps. If Clips wanna dump Gallo they have to put at least JRob into the package. With Gallo gone and no Dieng coming back the team will be sitting pretty in 2019 FA.

Gallo + JRob + PatBev for Butler + Tolliver

TPups get 2 players who can help win now (when healthy) and the best young asset among all the teams looking to deal. PatBev can be spun off to PHX for a SRP if TPups are allergic to the tax.

Any deal that doesn’t include at least JRob or SEGA means HOU will swoop in with EGordon + whatever salary that keeps em under the tax + FRP. Gordon is on a decent deal and can help them fill Butlers starting spot.

Look at using JRob as to not only get Butler but also to clear Gallo’s 2019 salary. Any deal that doesn’t JRob or Tobias as a base really isn’t gonna fly with all the other suitors who can beat those deals.

Exc analysis and realistic. We could also throw Milos in if the Wolves want an additional trade chip for PHX, who are interested. And I'm not sold on JRob based on his summer league performance or the workout videos retweeted by Ramna. As a fan, I'm prepared to be a JRob fan, but there's nowhere near the buzz about him that there is about Shai. You gotta give up something to get something.

But if I'm the Wolves, no discussion starts without Tobias, at least for now.

Vae Victus · Post #120 » by **Vae Victus** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:39 am

If the Wolves only want Tobias as the main piece, then they dont get SEGA or JRob period, i'd also be loathe to part with Harrell or Lou Will due to how cheap their deals are, good teams always need quality cheap depth.

Tobias + Teodosic or Patbev for Butler
or hell to be really creative and there's a market for Butler
Tobias + Teodosic AND PatBev for Butler with one of Teodosic/PatBev sent to PHX for a SRP (or 2 if rumors are to be believed, there's no way in hell Logo can get a FRP for PatBev) to give MIN extra value. PHX SRP will be one of the higher ones.

Both teams stay under tax, MIN gets some win now players who expire and a early SRP thats as good as a late FRP (as what HOU offer would basically be). LAC MASSIVELY clears out their guard glut, chopping the roster to 15, and gets value for it via consolidation into Butler. Even if Butler walks, the only downside is the loss FRP to BOS with the team likely being a fringe playoff squad. This is a situation where missing out on the playoffs isnt a bad as that makes the pick convey down the line.

C - Gortat, Harrell, Boban
PF- Gallo, LMAM, Scott
SF- Butler, WeJo, Wallace
SG- Bradley, Lou Will, JRob
PG- SEGA, Evans, Thornwell

Although looking at the depth chart, it really is a goddamn shame that JRob is stuck so far behind and PG spot is very green. Sending out Lou WIll is a bit too much salary for MIN to swallow as it tips em over into the lux tax. Us taking back Tolliver tips the Clips into the tax, unless they send out one of the spare PGs to PHX for just a SRP.

Tobias + Lou Will + PatBev for Butler + Tolliver
PatBev to PHX for a SRP (or 2) in this trade scenario i'd want to keep the SRP, or maybe send em the worst SRP the Clips have available in 2019 if TPups are being obstinate. Prolly ask MIN to kick in 5m so the team can buy out Tolliver.

C - Gortat, Harrell, Boban
PF- Gallo, LMAM, Scott
SF- Butler, WeJo, Wallace
SG- Bradley, JRob, Thornwell
PG- Teodosic, SEGA, Evans

Butler and Bradley gonna have their work cut out for them in covering for Teodosic and Gallo's slow asses. Hopefully full time at PF will rebuild Gallo's value as he should be quick enough to stick here. He's got a GREAT skillset, **** just needs to stay healthy.

Interesting thing is this. Despite keeping Gallo, if Logo sends out Lou Will in this deal, IF the FRP conveys to BOS, the team has a max slot without needing to do anything with Gallo, except waiving one of the non guaranteed players (Thornwell, Evans, Wallace). The beauty of Butler smallish 2018 deal is that his caphold is a few mil short than his eligible max. As shown in Capulator.

http://www.shamsports.com/capulator?id=3307755805ba8a22dcda40355636814

With a good C signing with the Room Exception this team is legit as hell, no matter they sign Kawhi or Kyrie to the max.

C - Room Exception, Harrell
PF- Gallo
SF- Butler, Wallace
SG- JRob, Thornwell
PG- Kyrie, SEGA

Next step is to trade Gallo's expiring for a good player using one of JRob or SEGA as trade bait.

Should the Clippers pursue Jimmy Butler? (Check all that you agree with)