Game #42: HAWKS @ Clippers Sunday 1/8 6 PM [NOTE TIME]

[KL2]

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Yet he kept him on the bench down the stretch.

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Help us. What are we doing here?

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What? 5 guard lineup?

[KL2]

They should be getting ready to trade Kawhi and PG and start over with as many picks as we can get. The window is officially closed on this iteration of the team and trying to tinker around the edges is a waste of our time. See also: the last couple years of Lob City.

Like it or not I think the Leonard/PG era will run until their contracts end. They’ll tweak in the meantime. Then the rebuild begins again.

[NickP]

The only silver lining I see is Mann replacing Reggie in the starting lineup and I hope this is long term. I hope with PG in the lineup and Batum healthy that this team will turn this around.
Reggie and Wall are both disappointing. Give those minutes to Preston.

Preston is a great story line, but he'd get absolutely abused.

Reggie just needs to take some time off, recover from that fall he took a few games ago, hasn't been the same since that. Just needs to pull a PG and rest instead of trying to give effort when he doesn't have it.

Wall and Reggie are getting abused by quicker guards. Preston may not be such a bad idea to play behind Mann. Now that Lue is finally warning up to the Mann at starting PG idea.

[NickP]

Changes will be made. No way the FO is watching this and think they just need more time.

They should be getting ready to trade Kawhi and PG and start over with as many picks as we can get. The window is officially closed on this iteration of the team and trying to tinker around the edges is a waste of our time. See also: the last couple years of Lob City.

I see the point in trading Kawhi and PG but why now? They're not even fully healthy and not playing in all our games. It's not like their trade value diminishes in the off season.
We've gone to great lengths to sign this duo and this season is already half in the books. Lets run the course with what we have until then.
Of course I'm fully open to the idea of packaging Morris and Powell for someone but definitely not Kawhi and PG right now.

[NickP]

The only silver lining I see is Mann replacing Reggie in the starting lineup and I hope this is long term. I hope with PG in the lineup and Batum healthy that this team will turn this around.
Reggie and Wall are both disappointing. Give those minutes to Preston.

Preston is a great story line, but he'd get absolutely abused.

Reggie just needs to take some time off, recover from that fall he took a few games ago, hasn't been the same since that. Just needs to pull a PG and rest instead of trying to give effort when he doesn't have it.

Vulture feast tonight. Let them have their fun I guess.

Reggie has given us everything he's got for the past 2 years while everyone else gets the night off if they got a twinge or a headache.

Ty SHOULD bench Reggie for awhile or limit his minutes--injury load management!--and let the other guys find themselves.

Let Mann and Luke find out if they can play point guard at an NBA level. Let Wall find out too. Maybe he never did. Westbrook never figured it out. All four bring positives to the floor but that doesn't mean you can play the point.



Reggie was our MVP last year. Yes, he's a mess now. The team is a mess now. We're a pickup team every night. There is no system or scheme possible.

We got close tonight against a struggling road team missing their starting center only because Kawhi (and Zubac!) played 38 minutes each.

The rest is noise.
.

Look Reggie has given this franchise a lot but this franchise is what saved Reggie's career also. Reggie was also rewarded with a contract. I understand the loyalty point but this is a tough league bro. Reggie and Wall are both not cutting it. Time to go with Mann at the starting PG. You bring up Reggie's past seasons and yes they've been good to very good. If Reggie is a real pro then he'll take a back seat now and stay ready for the playoffs (if we make it there)
But right now we need to find a winning combo that works. Reggie is too slow and I feel for the guy. I don't come here to dump on him or anyone else. Just want to see Lue play all his cards.

[esqtvd]

Guys, we need to talk about Tyronn Lue.

As I was looking for his longest losing streak, I found something very troubling:

2015-16: 27-14 (0.658)
* Took over for coach after Cavaliers fired David Blatt at 30-11 record
* Adjusted for an 82-game season, 54-26
* Required a curse-breaker to get their first title: 3-1 Finals comeback (3-1 comebacks have been done before, just never in Finals)

2016-17: 51-31 (0.622)
* Now full time
* Automatic loss to Warriors by 3-0 lead, granted a free game

2017-18: 50-32 (0.610)
* Automatic loss to Warriors by 3-0 lead, swept

2018-19: 0-6 (winless)
* LeBron James left to Lakers
* Career worst losing streak, 6 games, was fired afterwards

2020-21: 47-25 (0.652)
* Promoted to coach after Doc Rivers parted ways
* Adjusted for an 82-game season, 53-29
* Required a curse-breaker to get their first conference finals: double 2-0 comeback (2-0 comebacks have been done before, just never in back-to-back rounds)
* Eliminated in playoffs by Chris Paul

2021-22: 42-40 (0.512)
* Maximum losing streak was 5 games
* Disqualified from play-in tournament after back-to-back losses versus Wolves and Pelicans

2022-23: 21-21 (0.500)
* Season in progress
* Maximum losing streak is 6 games, tying Cavalier's tenure

Tyronn Lue has a Doc River-esque feel. He starts great, and has a curse-breaking accomplishment, but it's under compromised circumstances, such as being promoted in the middle of a full season season or having to coach a shortened season. Under a full season, his winning record goes down year by year. By the time his record reaches lottery-like levels (under 0.500), Lue is fired.

A point of interest is the Clipper's adjusted winning record. 0.652 in 2020-21 is eerily close to Cavalier's 0.658 in 2015-16. The math I used to figure out the 82-game record was:

(wins divided by total games played) times 82 games

Punching the Clipper's shortened season gave me a fudging record of 53.52. No, really, it's not just me using nice language. The 0.52 is emblematic of the Clipper's split personality disorder. Part of this team wants to win, the other part is scared of winning and has become comfortable with being a cellar-dweller after many years playing under the Donald Sterling era.

The next game is now an ultimatum. If Clippers lose the following game, they will become a lottery team and miss the playoffs altogether. And I could see Lue getting fired.

A firing is also inevitable if a Clipper gets ejected from a game.

A firing is inevitable regardless. Coaches are hired to be fired.

LOL I'm from Negadelphia and we chased Terry Francona, Andy Reid and Doug Pederson out of town. And Doc Rivers is next, champions all.

The fault lies with our Front Office. And with Ballmer being 66 and going all-in NOW even with $100 million luxury tax.

And Reggie Jackson is the only one around here stupid enough to play hurt.

Oh, and Zu too. Zu is a hero too. All due respect despite how that douchebag lies about me and what I've said about Zu over the years. All I ever said is 24 mpg seems to be his limit. True then, true now.

[Roscoe Sheed]

They really needed some of those 3 pointers to drop in the 4th quarter.

True, they mostly have themselves to blame for the losing streak, but there have been some inopportune misses in 2 of them- Morris missed a big 3 against Indiana as he did again tonight. Kawhi probably should have attacked the rim again instead of settling for the 3. He should have got an and 1 the previous time he did.

[Roscoe Sheed]

Preston is a great story line, but he'd get absolutely abused.

Reggie just needs to take some time off, recover from that fall he took a few games ago, hasn't been the same since that. Just needs to pull a PG and rest instead of trying to give effort when he doesn't have it.

Vulture feast tonight. Let them have their fun I guess.

Reggie has given us everything he's got for the past 2 years while everyone else gets the night off if they got a twinge or a headache.

Ty SHOULD bench Reggie for awhile or limit his minutes--injury load management!--and let the other guys find themselves.

Let Mann and Luke find out if they can play point guard at an NBA level. Let Wall find out too. Maybe he never did. Westbrook never figured it out. All four bring positives to the floor but that doesn't mean you can play the point.



Reggie was our MVP last year. Yes, he's a mess now. The team is a mess now. We're a pickup team every night. There is no system or scheme possible.

We got close tonight against a struggling road team missing their starting center only because Kawhi (and Zubac!) played 38 minutes each.

The rest is noise.
.

Look Reggie has given this franchise a lot but this franchise is what saved Reggie's career also. Reggie was also rewarded with a contract. I understand the loyalty point but this is a tough league bro. Reggie and Wall are both not cutting it. Time to go with Mann at the starting PG. You bring up Reggie's past seasons and yes they've been good to very good. If Reggie is a real pro then he'll take a back seat now and stay ready for the playoffs (if we make it there)
But right now we need to find a winning combo that works. Reggie is too slow and I feel for the guy. I don't come here to dump on him or anyone else. Just want to see Lue play all his cards.

I'm with you about Reggie. He is gassed. Have to give him credit though for toughing it out earlier in the season.

I think Wall is still somewhat effective in that he at least plays with pace and aggression. Not too happy about his turnovers though.

[esqtvd]

Vulture feast tonight. Let them have their fun I guess.

Reggie has given us everything he's got for the past 2 years while everyone else gets the night off if they got a twinge or a headache.

Ty SHOULD bench Reggie for awhile or limit his minutes--injury load management!--and let the other guys find themselves.

Let Mann and Luke find out if they can play point guard at an NBA level. Let Wall find out too. Maybe he never did. Westbrook never figured it out. All four bring positives to the floor but that doesn't mean you can play the point.



Reggie was our MVP last year. Yes, he's a mess now. The team is a mess now. We're a pickup team every night. There is no system or scheme possible.

We got close tonight against a struggling road team missing their starting center only because Kawhi (and Zubac!) played 38 minutes each.

The rest is noise.
.

Look Reggie has given this franchise a lot but this franchise is what saved Reggie's career also. Reggie was also rewarded with a contract. I understand the loyalty point but this is a tough league bro. Reggie and Wall are both not cutting it. Time to go with Mann at the starting PG. You bring up Reggie's past seasons and yes they've been good to very good. If Reggie is a real pro then he'll take a back seat now and stay ready for the playoffs (if we make it there)
But right now we need to find a winning combo that works. Reggie is too slow and I feel for the guy. I don't come here to dump on him or anyone else. Just want to see Lue play all his cards.

I'm with you about Reggie. He is gassed. Have to give him credit though for toughing it out earlier in the season.

I think Wall is still somewhat effective in that he at least plays with pace and aggression. Not too happy about his turnovers though.

You're right. Sometimes a good guy tries to do to much in a bad situation. Then becomes the scapegoat for the failures of others.

IMO, it's exactly what derailed Reggie's career in Detroit. Tried too hard to fix what he didn't break. At some point you're making things worse instead of better.

Reggie should be benched at this point. I mean this sincerely. He did his best but he can't fix this. Let Mann or Luke try to play the point or start Wall. Good luck and godspeed.

The problem is at the 4-5, IMO. Zu played 38 minutes tonight, I wouldn't give you twenty cents for Marcus, and Batum is the only other regular over 6-7.

Scapegoat away, vulture people. I yield the floor.



.

[madmaxmedia]

Reggie is himself 32, so it’s likely that playoff run 2 years ago will be his height as a Clipper.

I missed the game but read about Mann playing some point…how did he look? It didn’t work a couple of years ago after a promising summer league, but maybe with some more experience it was good to give it another shot.

[Clemenza]

The only silver lining I see is Mann replacing Reggie in the starting lineup and I hope this is long term. I hope with PG in the lineup and Batum healthy that this team will turn this around.
Reggie and Wall are both disappointing. Give those minutes to Preston.

Preston is a great story line, but he'd get absolutely abused.

Reggie just needs to take some time off, recover from that fall he took a few games ago, hasn't been the same since that. Just needs to pull a PG and rest instead of trying to give effort when he doesn't have it.

Wall and Reggie are getting abused by quicker guards. Preston may not be such a bad idea to play behind Mann. Now that Lue is finally warning up to the Mann at starting PG idea.

Without a doubt its time to give Preston a look on the second unit. We have to keep unlocking the puzzle so we can get this thing right and back on course. I have no clue when Mann didn't finish the game in favor of Powell. Moses Brown should've stayed in the game as well. Also I noticed we had a couple of good looks on offense down the stretch but we kept kicking it out for a much more difficult three point shot. This new NBA is flat out ridiculous

[Captain Ballmer]

Double Post. So instead, let me share a song whose name fits the mood of the team.

Watch on YouTube

[Captain Ballmer]

Everyone except Kawhi will be on the trade talks this February.

[TheNewEra]

Reggie is himself 32, so it’s likely that playoff run 2 years ago will be his height as a Clipper.

I missed the game but read about Mann playing some point…how did he look? It didn’t work a couple of years ago after a promising summer league, but maybe with some more experience it was good to give it another shot.

Was good as the starting PG did a lot of the things we run with the second unit. Pushed the pace and looked for people trailing to dump off passes. Think he needs to find his discipline a bit more defending the pick and roll but overall the point guard thing worked. Bad part was when Lue went super small and had Mann play the 4 with 3 other guards.

[TheNewEra]

It’s a terrible loss but at least we can see changes are going in the right direction. Ty probably knew that 3 guard lineup in the first half was going to fail but he couldn’t drop Jackson completely without trying first.

[og15]

Every coach gets to the point where you can't simply do the same thing and hope things correct. Sometimes injuries force coaches into it (Lakers with Lonnie Walker for example), sometimes they make the decision themselves.

Reggie is not a staple starter in this league, no one thought he was, we always knew the starting PG was a flex position as well as possibly the starting PF. What the coaching staff was trying to do was get Reggie circa 2021 playoffs back again. Kawhi has played more recently and so has George, Reggie is shooting 29% 3PT in his last 9 games. He shot well from outside in November and December (38.6% 3PT both months), but shot poorly from the field overall in December. Turnovers haven't been the best, his TS% for the season is pretty bad at 51.8%, and he's obviously been way off in his 4 January games.

The main value for Reggie as the starting PG was his outside shooting. What the coaching staff was trying to get is that consistent 40%+ 3PT he gave his first two seasons. That's the main skill he has over someone like Mann or even Wall who hasn't been good anyways.

Of course injuries, etc have been a factor, but if after 38 games you haven't really seen it, it's not a situation where this is James Harden in a shooting slump and you keep at it, you just have to reduce his minutes, try something else, but keep an eye on him in the other role to see if things turn up for him.

Clippers of course have to be active at the deadline, sometimes it's just that the fit doesn't materialize as one envisioned.

They have a month to evaluate the lineups and fit and then see if they need to make adjustments.

[MartinToVaught]

Changes will be made. No way the FO is watching this and think they just need more time.

They should be getting ready to trade Kawhi and PG and start over with as many picks as we can get. The window is officially closed on this iteration of the team and trying to tinker around the edges is a waste of our time. See also: the last couple years of Lob City.

I see the point in trading Kawhi and PG but why now? They're not even fully healthy and not playing in all our games. It's not like their trade value diminishes in the off season.
We've gone to great lengths to sign this duo and this season is already half in the books. Lets run the course with what we have until then.
Of course I'm fully open to the idea of packaging Morris and Powell for someone but definitely not Kawhi and PG right now.

The longer we wait = the older they get, the more injuries they accumulate, the more games they miss = the more their value declines.

Don't get me wrong, I don't love thinking this way, I'd much rather win a title with those guys, of course. But we're halfway through year 4 of this era and we're a .500 team that might finish well under .500 with the tough schedule we have left. They've shown no leadership whatsoever and can't be counted on to play when we need them to. Even when they do play, the team still underachieves. The rest of the league has gotten better, younger and more athletic while we're treading water. I just don't see how we recover from this without pressing the reset button on the whole roster. This team is so broken, swapping a couple role players around in the margins won't do anything.

[NickP]

They should be getting ready to trade Kawhi and PG and start over with as many picks as we can get. The window is officially closed on this iteration of the team and trying to tinker around the edges is a waste of our time. See also: the last couple years of Lob City.

I see the point in trading Kawhi and PG but why now? They're not even fully healthy and not playing in all our games. It's not like their trade value diminishes in the off season.
We've gone to great lengths to sign this duo and this season is already half in the books. Lets run the course with what we have until then.
Of course I'm fully open to the idea of packaging Morris and Powell for someone but definitely not Kawhi and PG right now.

The longer we wait = the older they get, the more injuries they accumulate, the more games they miss = the more their value declines.

Don't get me wrong, I don't love thinking this way, I'd much rather win a title with those guys, of course. But we're halfway through year 4 of this era and we're a .500 team that might finish well under .500 with the tough schedule we have left. They've shown no leadership whatsoever and can't be counted on to play when we need them to. Even when they do play, the team still underachieves. The rest of the league has gotten better, younger and more athletic while we're treading water. I just don't see how we recover from this without pressing the reset button on the whole roster. This team is so broken, swapping a couple role players around in the margins won't do anything.

I think a trade is inevitable and the only direction I see this going is to blow it all up and go in the rebuild mode. So I agree with you in that sense. If we don't make it back to the conference finals then get all the trade picks you can for Kawhi and PG and hire a dynamic coach to see the rebuild through.

[Roscoe Sheed]

The drop coverage on screen roll for the Clippers has been very poor recently. You cannot let guys just line up wide open mid-range shots- they have done this with Embiid, Turner, and now Young.

[og15]

They should be getting ready to trade Kawhi and PG and start over with as many picks as we can get. The window is officially closed on this iteration of the team and trying to tinker around the edges is a waste of our time. See also: the last couple years of Lob City.

I see the point in trading Kawhi and PG but why now? They're not even fully healthy and not playing in all our games. It's not like their trade value diminishes in the off season.
We've gone to great lengths to sign this duo and this season is already half in the books. Lets run the course with what we have until then.
Of course I'm fully open to the idea of packaging Morris and Powell for someone but definitely not Kawhi and PG right now.

The longer we wait = the older they get, the more injuries they accumulate, the more games they miss = the more their value declines.

Don't get me wrong, I don't love thinking this way, I'd much rather win a title with those guys, of course. But we're halfway through year 4 of this era and we're a .500 team that might finish well under .500 with the tough schedule we have left. They've shown no leadership whatsoever and can't be counted on to play when we need them to. Even when they do play, the team still underachieves. The rest of the league has gotten better, younger and more athletic while we're treading water. I just don't see how we recover from this without pressing the reset button on the whole roster. This team is so broken, swapping a couple role players around in the margins won't do anything.

The Clippers are at or close to that flexure point, certainly, it's always a tough decision to make in terms of the right time. That would be an off-season decision regardless of what they feel, you're generally not going to get the best packages for that kind of move in a mid-season deal since many teams are still unsure of where they stand. Off-season, more teams have a more clear plan of what they want to do.

Also many teams would be weary of trading for Kawhi for 1.5 or 1 season with a player option the next year as there are few places he would stay. So I'd say one is better off not focusing much on that as an option/possibility and avoiding the inevitable dissappointment.

Where I disagree is about the players on the margins changing things. If you get the right 6, 7, 8th guy, it does change things, ask GS about this season vs last and how the loss of their vet role players have made a big difference.

The Nets almost blew it up, but they are now riding to the top of the East before KD just went down, and key contributors have been additions like Royce O'Neale, Watanabe and even Seth still, all margin type players.