POLL: Tobias Harris Turns Down $80 Million | What's the Right Price?

[Galloisdaman]

There is a big difference between 20 mill a year and 35 mill a year. These numbers are mind boggling to me. I think Toby is very good but shouldn't he fall somewhere in between? Is he really a full max player? The scary thing is the Clips might not have much choice if another team is will to do a max deal.

[Ranma]

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Jonathan Tjarks, TheRinger.com (12/6/18)

20. Tobias Harris



Forward, Los Angeles Clippers

21.6 points, 2.3 assists, 8.4 rebounds, 0.5 blocks, 58.3 eFG%, 6.7 net rating

The plan for the Clippers this season was for their depth to overcome their lack of star power. As it turned out, they had both. Harris, an athletic 6-foot-9 combo forward with the ability to dribble and shoot, has always had talent. The difference this season is that he’s shooting lights-out, with career highs on 2-pointers (56.2 percent) and 3-pointers (42.2 percent). That’s all it takes for a good player to become a star. Maybe his shooting numbers will regress. Or maybe this is just who he is now. He’s on his fourth different team in his eighth season in the NBA, but he’s still only 26. It’s the perfect age to make a leap.

The Top 25 NBA Players of the First 25ish Games

[Ranma]

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Andrew Greif, Los Angeles Times (12/6/18)

“He just works out all the damn day,” Welch said.

To Welch and other Clippers assistants who visited Harris last summer, his offseason training was a window into how Harris has gone from a perennial trade chip into a burgeoning star whom an organization might choose to build around this summer.

Harris is detailed, driven by his family and obsessed with improvement. He approaches workouts like a zealot in Nikes.

“This is the only way I know,” Harris said. “One thing I always stand by is being a professional.

Coach Doc Rivers likened Harris’ ability to process huge amounts of scouting reports, statistics and film study before games to that of Kevin Garnett.

“He’s like a computer, I swear he is,” Rivers said.

He likes the nickname the Clippers have assigned him: “The Machine.”

“Anything that can be associated with a machine is Tobias,” assistant Sam Cassell said. “You want to do something he’s not programmed to do? You’ve got to program it.”

Tobias Harris and His Family Always Had a Plan for Success

[QRich3]

There is a big difference between 20 mill a year and 35 mill a year. These numbers are mind boggling to me. I think Toby is very good but shouldn't he fall somewhere in between? Is he really a full max player? The scary thing is the Clips might not have much choice if another team is will to do a max deal.

He should, but the possibility for another team to add him for free to an existing core justifies an overpay. And if (when) he gets a max offer from some other team like Utah or Indiana, he's gonna go get the money as he should, and the Clippers can either match that or let him go for nothing. Either choice is bad. Free agency is often a bad business.

[Quake Griffin]

Free agency is often a bad business.

Unfortunately, Ballmer and Doc have made the entire season about it.

[QRich3]

Yeah, and I've been very skeptic about it. To be fair, they are much more intelligent than me and they've been nailing stuff that I wouldn't have predicted, like getting a bunch of contract year guys to be at the top of the league, getting fringe guys to develop into great assets, etc.

And obviously, if they get Kawhi or Durant (eww) to add to a young core, it's a great cop and an impressive development. But that's a big ass risk with not that great a ceiling tbh.

[playaloc916]

Andrew Greif, Los Angeles Times (12/6/18)

He likes the nickname the Clippers have assigned him: “The Machine.”

Right about now this guy is probably throwing a fit

[playaloc916]

I've been pleasantly surprised by Harris. Obviously a contract year, but he doesn't strike me as one of the players that mails it in after playing for a big contract. He seems like a blue collar worker-type with a strong ethic, similar to Demar Derozan, and even a bit like Blake (without the immaturity). If we strike out on all the marquee FA's, I'd be okay with Harris remaining as a core player. He's still young(ish), strong work ethic, good locker room/team guy, no major injury history, etc...

[Galloisdaman]

There is a big difference between 20 mill a year and 35 mill a year. These numbers are mind boggling to me. I think Toby is very good but shouldn't he fall somewhere in between? Is he really a full max player? The scary thing is the Clips might not have much choice if another team is will to do a max deal.

He should, but the possibility for another team to add him for free to an existing core justifies an overpay. And if (when) he gets a max offer from some other team like Utah or Indiana, he's gonna go get the money as he should, and the Clippers can either match that or let him go for nothing. Either choice is bad. Free agency is often a bad business.

I think the tough thing about FA is the length of the deals not even the salary. In the past you could sign a guy for 6 years where the deal is good for 2 years, bad for 2 years and really bad for 2 years. I wish contract lengths were 4 years max. A lot can happen in 4 years.

[og15]

There is a big difference between 20 mill a year and 35 mill a year. These numbers are mind boggling to me. I think Toby is very good but shouldn't he fall somewhere in between? Is he really a full max player? The scary thing is the Clips might not have much choice if another team is will to do a max deal.

There's still a choice. I wouldn't give him 30% of the salary cap still.

[Galloisdaman]

There is a big difference between 20 mill a year and 35 mill a year. These numbers are mind boggling to me. I think Toby is very good but shouldn't he fall somewhere in between? Is he really a full max player? The scary thing is the Clips might not have much choice if another team is will to do a max deal.

There's still a choice. I wouldn't give him 30% of the salary cap still.

If he is looking for the max what would you do?

[esqtvd]

I've been pleasantly surprised by Harris. Obviously a contract year, but he doesn't strike me as one of the players that mails it in after playing for a big contract. He seems like a blue collar worker-type with a strong ethic, similar to Demar Derozan, and even a bit like Blake (without the immaturity). If we strike out on all the marquee FA's, I'd be okay with Harris remaining as a core player. He's still young(ish), strong work ethic, good locker room/team guy, no major injury history, etc...

This. There are 30 teams but only ten Top 10 guys--and GSW has 3 of 'em. You have to face up to the math.

[Galloisdaman]

I've been pleasantly surprised by Harris. Obviously a contract year, but he doesn't strike me as one of the players that mails it in after playing for a big contract. He seems like a blue collar worker-type with a strong ethic, similar to Demar Derozan, and even a bit like Blake (without the immaturity). If we strike out on all the marquee FA's, I'd be okay with Harris remaining as a core player. He's still young(ish), strong work ethic, good locker room/team guy, no major injury history, etc...

This. There are 30 teams but only ten Top 10 guys--and GSW has 3 of 'em. You have to face up to the math.

I don't think Toby is a top 10 player but he is putting up all star caliber stats.

[esqtvd]

I've been pleasantly surprised by Harris. Obviously a contract year, but he doesn't strike me as one of the players that mails it in after playing for a big contract. He seems like a blue collar worker-type with a strong ethic, similar to Demar Derozan, and even a bit like Blake (without the immaturity). If we strike out on all the marquee FA's, I'd be okay with Harris remaining as a core player. He's still young(ish), strong work ethic, good locker room/team guy, no major injury history, etc...

This. There are 30 teams but only ten Top 10 guys--and GSW has 3 of 'em. You have to face up to the math.

I don't think Toby is a top 10 player but he is putting up all star caliber stats.

Yah, that's where I was going with this--Tobias is a top 20 or 30 player and that might be all that drops in our lap for awhile. I mean, if we can't land one of this summer's big fish, do we let Tobias go just to keep the salary slots open?

[Ranma]

Luke Adams, HoopsRumors.com (12/7/18)

7. Tobias Harris, F, Clippers
8. Kemba Walker, G, Hornets

It seems unfair to rank Walker this low, given how good he has been for Charlotte this season. But his shooting numbers (.440 FG% and .358 3PT%) aren’t elite and he’ll be 29 when he reaches free agency. His position and size also make him less versatile than Harris, the 26-year-old forward who has posted a red-hot .508/.416/.852 shooting line this season as the scoring leader for one of the NBA’s best teams. Both of these guys will get paid big money, and would be among the top five free agents available in many other years.

2019 NBA Free Agent Power Rankings 2.0


Dana Gauruder, HoopsRumors.com (12/7/18)

Tobias Harris, Clippers, 26, PF (Up) – Signed to a four-year, $64MM deal in 2015
When news leaked over the summer that Harris turned down an $80MM extension offer from the Clippers, many people wondered what Harris was thinking. He was willing to bet on himself that he could do even better as an unrestricted free agent and thus far, the odds have increased in his favor. Harris is posting career highs in several major categories, including scoring (21.0 PPG), shooting (50.8%) and rebounding (8.5 RPG) for one of the league’s surprise teams. When the superstars come off the board, Harris will be next in line for a big payday.

Free Agent Stock Watch 2019: Pacific Division

[Quake Griffin]

I've been pleasantly surprised by Harris. Obviously a contract year, but he doesn't strike me as one of the players that mails it in after playing for a big contract. He seems like a blue collar worker-type with a strong ethic, similar to Demar Derozan, and even a bit like Blake (without the immaturity). If we strike out on all the marquee FA's, I'd be okay with Harris remaining as a core player. He's still young(ish), strong work ethic, good locker room/team guy, no major injury history, etc...

Imagine you are him.

All you read is: “Kawhi to the Clippers?” “Durant to the Clippers?” You see the other crop of FAs. Then you have a coach who can’t wait to open his mouth and tell the media he’s salivating over FA...owner as well. They sell you the #FullSpeedAhead narrative with this group but they’d hate to return this exact group next year. Both look just as thirsty and foolish as Magic Johnson did all last year.

You think he can’t already see a scenario where he may be the odd man out if we land the big fish? Hell, we can see it from our computers and phones.

I don’t think settling for him as a core player will be as easy once FA gets here. Once real meetings are taken and the rumors become more substantiated....once more money is offered.


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[Captain Ballmer]

The last couple of games demonstrates that Tobias is not a star player, can not force the game or takeover the game at will. He just do his damage when the game is good. For example Blake was a force even for his attitude shortcomings. He could takeover games or force his way into the opponent lanes to draw double teams when he couldn't and let other guys pull the trigger.

Tobias; efficient second scorer next to your superstar. 25 million per yearly is the max money I'd consider for him.

[Clemenza]

Yeah he's definitely not a max player. He's got to bring us home and put the team on his back in some of these close games to demand that max money

[playaloc916]

He does seem to have cooled off since his hot start. It will be interesting to see if this is a temporary "slump" and he eventually returns back to his prior self, or whether the hot start was an outlier.

I think another thing to consider is that what his motivations are. He obviously knows the Clippers are aiming for top FA's and that he is likely gone if they land one. There are players who you know are all about the money and will leave the first chance they get and don't really care about other factors. Then there are players who take into consideration a bunch of things, like team success, city, teammates, management, etc., and may end up taking less money to stay on their current team/go to a specific team.

I don't know how the timing will work out, but I think Harris is the type to look at everything as a whole. Perhaps he has a shortlist of teams? Who knows who on his list will reach out to him... He might wait it out until the last moment... or he might cash in and not risk getting a crappier deal if his preferred teams don't work out... It will be interesting how his contract plays out.

[Ranma]

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