Off season, free agency, coaching change.

[Clemenza]

Too many unfacts here: After hearing his horn tooted for the last half-dozen years, Mann is ass. Mann is ass because he IS ass. The Clippers DID develop him. We were lucky to dump his contract. And KL and PG were under 30 when Ballmer went for it, not 35 or 38. This is pointless, you're right. 20 teams haven't won the title and we won more games than any of them. We DON'T suck. Had we lucked into an MVP like Joker in the 2nd round or had better injury luck, the I Told You So Crowd would be singing a different tune.

There is no sure "better way" out there or those other 20 teams would have done it. The Lakers are proof. One of the legendary NBA franchises and they were ass 7 of the last 12 years and their one title is a joke.

So you're saying Denver knew Jokic, a 2nd round pick, was going to be a future MVP? In that case we lucked into a MVP as well with SGA. Remember Denver had to roll the dice and choose between Jokic and Jusuf Nurkić and Nurkic was the starter and considered slightly better at the time. Luckily they chose correctly and sent Nurkic to Portland.

No, I have a better point than that. See all my posts above that got ignored in this discussion. I supplied a lot research and facts. I'd like SOMEONE to read them.

I'm referring to that Denver never seriously scouted Joker and took a flyer on a name on a list at #41 and made the greatest value pick in NBA history. It turned into a title. And as you ask, Adam Ausland [Clippers Talk, you know who he is] just posted this too:

Read on Twitter

Same points I've been making all along. Adam has the receipts. After 6 years the 'I Told You So Crowd' needs to start showing theirs or stfu. Mercy.

I saw that from Adam earlier today. That was all the media's response to the trade. But my Twitter timeline with tons of Clipper fans, myself included, hated that SGA was involved in the trade and felt he was the one guy to truly keep. Adam is just showing all the media receipts that co-signed the trade, but not actual Clipper fans reaction. This is also Adam Ausland self medicating. Not sure if he's trying to convince us or himself. He's severely depressed over all of this.

[KL2]

Read on Twitter

[esqtvd]

So you're saying Denver knew Jokic, a 2nd round pick, was going to be a future MVP? In that case we lucked into a MVP as well with SGA. Remember Denver had to roll the dice and choose between Jokic and Jusuf Nurkić and Nurkic was the starter and considered slightly better at the time. Luckily they chose correctly and sent Nurkic to Portland.

No, I have a better point than that. See all my posts above that got ignored in this discussion. I supplied a lot research and facts. I'd like SOMEONE to read them.

I'm referring to that Denver never seriously scouted Joker and took a flyer on a name on a list at #41 and made the greatest value pick in NBA history. It turned into a title. And as you ask, Adam Ausland [Clippers Talk, you know who he is] just posted this too:

Read on Twitter

Same points I've been making all along. Adam has the receipts. After 6 years the 'I Told You So Crowd' needs to start showing theirs or stfu. Mercy.

I saw that from Adam earlier today. That was all the media's response to the trade. But my Twitter timeline with tons of Clipper fans, myself included, hated that SGA was involved in the trade and felt he was the one guy to truly keep. Adam is just showing all the media receipts that co-signed the trade, but not actual Clipper fans reaction. This is also Adam Ausland self medicating. Not sure if he's trying to convince us or himself. He's severely depressed over all of this.

No SGA, no KL. I said that days ago, and AA just posted the Woj clip to back it up. I mean, it's WOJ, who was THE NBA Insider.

Just can't provide any more evidence, and neither can AA. Yes, we are frustrated. They yap on.

Read on Twitter

You know, what's ironic is that AA called me a "Mann-hater" for YEARS when I tweeted that Mann was mediocre. I was right, he was wrong. Just like on this board, But jeez, Adam watches every play of every game. He brings FACTS. Mann DID have a great run as a starter statwise, but it turned out that PG and KL hated playing with his lame ass and pushed for Russ instead. And for Harden after that.

Then we dump his contract on ATL and he's even worse over there. And now we're supposed to listen to this BS that Mann would be better if only Doc and Ty played him more. What a load of horses**t.

No wonder Adam is self-medicating.

[wakelaunch1]

Actually hilarious but the Holiday to the Clippers is picking up steam.

[Captain Ballmer]

Actually hilarious but the Holiday to the Clippers is picking up steam.

We need size, rebounding, athleticism, energy because we are not responding well enough to physicality of NBA games. Jrue does very little help on that over Dunn, Bogdan, DJJ or Coffey, otoh he doesn't provide shooting to compensate this

[MartinToVaught]

I'm referring to that Denver never seriously scouted Joker and took a flyer on a name on a list at #41

They had a strong relationship with Jokic's agent since drafting another one of his clients the year before. They also hired a scout, Rafal Juc, who specialized in scouting the Serbian league because the team Jokic played for (Mega Basket - the same team Boban and Zubac played for) was quickly becoming an NBA prospect factory at the time. He was the one pushing the hardest for Jokic in the leadup to that draft. And Denver's front office watched him play at the Nike Hoop Summit in Portland.

Of course Denver didn't expect Jokic to be this good, but the idea that they just randomly picked his name without any process behind it is pure fiction. It's a narrative you want to be true because it suits your anti-drafting and anti-development agenda. But, sadly, most other teams' front offices aren't as inept and lazy as ours is.

[Roscoe Sheed]

Actually hilarious but the Holiday to the Clippers is picking up steam.

We need size, rebounding, athleticism, energy because we are not responding well enough to physicality of NBA games. Jrue does very little help on that over Dunn, Bogdan, DJJ or Coffey, otoh he doesn't provide shooting to compensate this

Holiday is still a very competent point guard and defender. True, he has lost a step, but he is still a top level defensive player on 1s and 2s and even some 3s. Although he isn't a lights out shooter, teams honor his shot more than Dunn and he has better ball handling and playmaking skills than Bogdan. At times Bogdan looked nearly unplayable in the Denver series- that wouldn't happen with Holiday.

[KL2]

Alvaro Cardenas had a training session with the Los Angeles Clippers yesterday. The Granadian point guard continues pursuing his dream of reaching the NBA, although it is very difficult for him. He will surely make one of the Las Vegas Summer League rosters, perhaps with the Clippers themselves.

Read on Twitter

***eta***

According to hoopshype tracker Clippers worked out Izan Almanza.

[TrueLAfan]

Actually hilarious but the Holiday to the Clippers is picking up steam.

Not with three years left on his deal. Uh-uh. No way. Put it this way; we were concerned about PG’s age when we chose—correctly—not to resign him to a longer term deal. Jrue is the same age as PG. 3 years/$104 million remaining. Boston is selling him hard, IMO. Our "interest" is Boston's way of pumping him up.

I’m seeing lots of reports that the trade market, not the FA market, is going to be crazy this year. That could help us a lot. (For people that question the FO—it could kill us real quick.) Anyway, we’re in the unusual position of having multiple players that are on middle of the road-ish deals that are worth their salaries. Powell’s contract is a good one. Bogie is neutral. DJJ is a plus, as is Dunn. Eubanks may or may not be a minus—his salary is less than $2 million from the league minimum. That’s leaving Batum, Brown, and Miller out of it. Point is, we’ve got tradeable assets at a variety of salary points … so if we want to do something, we probably can.

As for the Kawhi/PG leverage/front office/make me wanna holler responses—just one person’s opinion. Get past it. We gave up too much six years ago. We’ve made plenty of moves since then, some good, some questionable. Stick to the present. I’m a lot more interested in what we might do with Drew Eubanks than rearguing the merits of what we did to get Paul George six f$#%ing years ago. My .02.

[esqtvd]

I'm referring to that Denver never seriously scouted Joker and took a flyer on a name on a list at #41

They had a strong relationship with Jokic's agent since drafting another one of his clients the year before. They also hired a scout, Rafal Juc, who specialized in scouting the Serbian league because the team Jokic played for (Mega Basket - the same team Boban and Zubac played for) was quickly becoming an NBA prospect factory at the time. He was the one pushing the hardest for Jokic in the leadup to that draft. And Denver's front office watched him play at the Nike Hoop Summit in Portland.

Of course Denver didn't expect Jokic to be this good, but the idea that they just randomly picked his name without any process behind it is pure fiction. It's a narrative you want to be true because it suits your anti-drafting and anti-development agenda. But, sadly, most other teams' front offices aren't as inept and lazy as ours is.

Of course they didn't expect an MVP. They took a flyer. They knew his agent and saw him play once? You call that "scouting?"

If Joker doesn't turn into an MVP, no title. That's the whole point. They hit the longshot. They traded for Nurkic with the #11 pick in the same draft. Why didn't they "develop" him? He was meh until the Nuggets traded him to the Blazers and then he had some OK seasons.

And Denver did nothing to "develop" Joker. He stayed another year in Europe then came over to the NBA and hit the ground running, finishing third for Rookie of the Year.

And it's a lie I'm against drafting and developing. I'm skeptical, is all. Mann had one decent playoff game and you went on for years how "Mann is the future." Well, he's not, bro. He's 29 in October. He's ass, and we were lucky to dump his 3yr/$47M contract on the Hawks, who discovered he's a big zero who runs up and down the court doing nothing. And now you say that it's the CLIPPERS' fault that he can't even score 10 points a game?

Your narratives are all fantasy. You repeat them so much you've come to believe them.

[esqtvd]

Actually hilarious but the Holiday to the Clippers is picking up steam.

Not with three years left on his deal. Uh-uh. No way. Put it this way; we were concerned about PG’s age when we chose—correctly—not to resign him to a longer term deal. Jrue is the same age as PG. 3 years/$104 million remaining. Boston is selling him hard, IMO. Our "interest" is Boston's way of pumping him up.

I’m seeing lots of reports that the trade market, not the FA market, is going to be crazy this year. That could help us a lot. (For people that question the FO—it could kill us real quick.) Anyway, we’re in the unusual position of having multiple players that are on middle of the road-ish deals that are worth their salaries. Powell’s contract is a good one. Bogie is neutral. DJJ is a plus, as is Dunn. Eubanks may or may not be a minus—his salary is less than $2 million from the league minimum. That’s leaving Batum, Brown, and Miller out of it. Point is, we’ve got tradeable assets at a variety of salary points … so if we want to do something, we probably can.

As for the Kawhi/PG leverage/front office/make me wanna holler responses—just one person’s opinion. Get past it. We gave up too much six years ago. We’ve made plenty of moves since then, some good, some questionable. Stick to the present. I’m a lot more interested in what we might do with Drew Eubanks than rearguing the merits of what we did to get Paul George six f$#%ing years ago. My .02.

Six f$#%ing years ago. LOL. When you've been wrong about everything for the last 5 years, that's all you got to biotch about.

As for Jrue, I think the Clippers' strategy going forward is to not commit to ANYTHING past Kawhi's contract expiration in 2 years and the draft picks come back. We're still a destination because we're in LA, have the most beautiful facilities and amenities and the richest owner in sports. In the meantime, keep our heads high and try to win as many games as possible and keep a winning culture. Yes, we have one, folks--even if it's less than a championship culture. We played hard every night, somehow won 50 games even with Kawhi missing more than half of them, and took a tough Nugs team to 7 games. 2024-25 was not a fail, it was a pleasant surprise.

213 didn't work. Boo hoo. But the solution is not to become the Hornets or Nets or even the Sixers, which are toxic waste dumps like we used to be. And Ballmer's too old for that s*&.

We've come a long way, baby.

[nickhx2]

idk, true

i feel like relitigating the past over, and over, and over, and over

and over, and over and over

and over again - every time SGA sneezes - is the absolute best way for me to find peace and resolution with this team.




and if it doesn't work i could just keep trying again, you know?

[Ballings7]

and besides, if you thought the Clippers caved, Woj says you're full of s^&*

Read on Twitter

Too many unfacts here: After hearing his horn tooted for the last half-dozen years, Mann is ass. Mann is ass because he IS ass. The Clippers DID develop him. We were lucky to dump his contract. And KL and PG were under 30 when Ballmer went for it, not 35 or 38. This is pointless, you're right. 20 teams haven't won the title and we won more games than any of them. We DON'T suck. Had we lucked into an MVP like Joker in the 2nd round or had better injury luck, the I Told You So Crowd would be singing a different tune.

There is no sure "better way" out there or those other 20 teams would have done it. The Lakers are proof. One of the legendary NBA franchises and they were ass 7 of the last 12 years and their one title is a joke.

So you're saying Denver knew Jokic, a 2nd round pick, was going to be a future MVP? In that case we lucked into a MVP as well with SGA. Remember Denver had to roll the dice and choose between Jokic and Jusuf Nurkić and Nurkic was the starter and considered slightly better at the time. Luckily they chose correctly and sent Nurkic to Portland.

No, I have a better point than that. See all my posts above that got ignored in this discussion. I supplied a lot research and facts. I'd like SOMEONE to read them.

I'm referring to that Denver never seriously scouted Joker and took a flyer on a name on a list at #41 and made the greatest value pick in NBA history. It turned into a title. And as you ask, Adam Ausland [Clippers Talk, you know who he is] just posted this too:

Read on Twitter

Same points I've been making all along. Adam has the receipts. After 6 years the 'I Told You So Crowd' needs to start showing theirs or stfu. Mercy.

Gotta agree with the reflection.. many people don't have a spine and are ignorant on the SGA/Clippers/Kawhi/PG13 moves, and just go with what most others are saying to fit in.

The majority of Clipper fans were all over the Kawhi/PG moves and weren't feeling close to how they may be now about SGA.

[Ballings7]

Actually hilarious but the Holiday to the Clippers is picking up steam.

We need size, rebounding, athleticism, energy because we are not responding well enough to physicality of NBA games. Jrue does very little help on that over Dunn, Bogdan, DJJ or Coffey, otoh he doesn't provide shooting to compensate this

Better get that hybrid forward or PF who's at least 6'7".. ideally over 6'8"; has some decent strength/length, one of the two.

G. Yabusele
C. Boucher
Jalen Smith

should be main targets there. None of them are at/past prime and are solid on both ends, and can space the floor. All defer offensively and don't sulk at times offensively.

Holiday in place of Dunn's starter minutes would be better for the team offensively. He's a career 37% 3P shooter, and still shot 35% 3P last season which is still adequate, an outlier compared to the prior recent seasons on 3P.

I believe Holiday can still be a difference maker for another year or two -- but it won't mean anything if the team doesn't balance out the front court and not have to play pure SFs and SGs at PF for long stretches like the last 3 seasons.

I'm not saying Holiday is a priority, but if he's brought in, it will make the team better at guard offensively no doubt.

I luv Dunn, but he still hasn't established himself as a floor spacing threat -- he can still do that and get better, but he's a bit ways off from that. The mid-March to early Denver series run Dunn had of solid 3P shooting was encouraging.

Actually hilarious but the Holiday to the Clippers is picking up steam.

We need size, rebounding, athleticism, energy because we are not responding well enough to physicality of NBA games. Jrue does very little help on that over Dunn, Bogdan, DJJ or Coffey, otoh he doesn't provide shooting to compensate this

Holiday is still a very competent point guard and defender. True, he has lost a step, but he is still a top level defensive player on 1s and 2s and even some 3s. Although he isn't a lights out shooter, teams honor his shot more than Dunn and he has better ball handling and playmaking skills than Bogdan. At times Bogdan looked nearly unplayable in the Denver series- that wouldn't happen with Holiday.

This.

[og15]

I'm referring to that Denver never seriously scouted Joker and took a flyer on a name on a list at #41

They had a strong relationship with Jokic's agent since drafting another one of his clients the year before. They also hired a scout, Rafal Juc, who specialized in scouting the Serbian league because the team Jokic played for (Mega Basket - the same team Boban and Zubac played for) was quickly becoming an NBA prospect factory at the time. He was the one pushing the hardest for Jokic in the leadup to that draft. And Denver's front office watched him play at the Nike Hoop Summit in Portland.

Of course Denver didn't expect Jokic to be this good, but the idea that they just randomly picked his name without any process behind it is pure fiction. It's a narrative you want to be true because it suits your anti-drafting and anti-development agenda. But, sadly, most other teams' front offices aren't as inept and lazy as ours is.

Of course they didn't expect an MVP. They took a flyer. They knew his agent and saw him play once? You call that "scouting?"

If Joker doesn't turn into an MVP, no title. That's the whole point. They hit the longshot. They traded for Nurkic with the #11 pick in the same draft. Why didn't they "develop" him? He was meh until the Nuggets traded him to the Blazers and then he had some OK seasons.

And Denver did nothing to "develop" Joker. He stayed another year in Europe then came over to the NBA and hit the ground running, finishing third for Rookie of the Year.

And it's a lie I'm against drafting and developing. I'm skeptical, is all. Mann had one decent playoff game and you went on for years how "Mann is the future." Well, he's not, bro. He's 29 in October. He's ass, and we were lucky to dump his 3yr/$47M contract on the Hawks, who discovered he's a big zero who runs up and down the court doing nothing. And now you say that it's the CLIPPERS' fault that he can't even score 10 points a game?

Your narratives are all fantasy. You repeat them so much you've come to believe them.

Many people sort of mix up the Jokic story. He went so low because he was not showing the consistency and focus yet. The “stash” season he took a large leap, lost weight, became more focused. Jokic would have been a lottery pick if he was in the draft that year instead, many people don’t realize this.

Denver passed on Jokic at 16 and 19. They clearly just thought of him as a future backup type guy, which is nice, but nothing to credit there. They saw Nurkic as better, but Jokic’s play in practice and games forced their hand.

So one one hand, you of course get picks and take chances hoping it works, but Denver did nothing special here. Crediting a team for passing up a guy twice, taking him in the second round then stashing him is not logical.This wasn’t 2002 when NBA teams knew nothing about international players and you could hide guys.

Kobe Brown not becoming an NBA starter is not going to be based on anything the Clippers do or don’t do. Fans really just can’t accept that there is a LOT of luck to success.

Draymond Green was supposed to be behind David Lee, but Lee got injured and the timeline was accelerated. He would have still beat out Lee over time, but injury pushed it up.

Tony Battie was supposed to start on Orlando, but he got injured, so Rashard moved to 4, Turk started and we got that killer Orlando 4 out offense.

Teams and coaches stumble upon a lot of success. One of the biggest myths in NBA fan fandom is that it a specific development plan or a specific amount of minutes given that determines how players ultimately develop. This many times is based on people not getting the correlation / causation aspect, and also thinking everyone can just get exponentially better at this level (they can't). High picks go to worse teams, high picks are usually the better players, so people see high picks getting early minutes and say, “it’s because of the early minutes and allowing them to develop that they became stars", but then ignore all the guys with tons of minutes who still sucked, and all the guys with very little game minutes early who became great.

If course a guy has to play to fully flesh out what he can do, but the vast majority of the actual development is behind closed doors and in practice. Guys show skills and force the hand of coaches, or someone gets hurt and a guy steps up and goes to another level. For example, Mann, just wild that ANYONE thought his play had anything to do with coaching. Guys who take it to the next level, that PG/Kawhi injured season, they average 20/5/5, a little less efficient, sure, but it's okay. When you start arguing that a coach has to push and force a guy into that kind of aggressiveness, you're arguing that the guy does NOT have it, has nothing to do with coaching, especially guys who didn't show that at any other level.

[MartinToVaught]

Denver did nothing special here.

For 29 teams in the league, sure. For the Clippers, a GM doing that would be like the prehistoric caveman who discovered fire. That's how far behind the rest of the league we are.

I never even said Denver did anything special, for the record. You're supposed to take scouting and the draft seriously, not blow it off. That's just the bare minimum baseline of competence for a NBA front office, one that ours is incapable of reaching.

[og15]

Denver did nothing special here.

For 29 teams in the league, sure. For the Clippers, a GM doing that would be like the prehistoric caveman who discovered fire. That's how far behind the rest of the league we are.

I never even said Denver did anything special, for the record. You're supposed to take scouting and the draft seriously, not blow it off. That's just the bare minimum baseline of competence for a NBA front office, one that ours is incapable of reaching.

I think the idea that the Clippers are blowing it off is hyperbolic, an obviously false, come on. If Ballmer could just buy draft picks And teams were selling them like they used to, The Clippers would be acquiring multiple ones of them to try and get additional talents.

No one in the NBA is oblivious to the fact that draft picks can be cheap talents, but it's about if you're able to acquire them, how you're able to acquire them. So I think it's a bit hyperbolic for us to think that they're just doing random things and don't actually understand what's going on. They do, but you can only do what you can with what you have.

[og15]

Actually hilarious but the Holiday to the Clippers is picking up steam.

We need size, rebounding, athleticism, energy because we are not responding well enough to physicality of NBA games. Jrue does very little help on that over Dunn, Bogdan, DJJ or Coffey, otoh he doesn't provide shooting to compensate this

Holiday is still a very competent point guard and defender. True, he has lost a step, but he is still a top level defensive player on 1s and 2s and even some 3s. Although he isn't a lights out shooter, teams honor his shot more than Dunn and he has better ball handling and playmaking skills than Bogdan. At times Bogdan looked nearly unplayable in the Denver series- that wouldn't happen with Holiday.

Holiday would be great on a different contract. Great winning player. He brings a combination of a lot of the skills of those guys, but better, but not at that price and kength

[Captain Ballmer]

We need size, rebounding, athleticism, energy because we are not responding well enough to physicality of NBA games. Jrue does very little help on that over Dunn, Bogdan, DJJ or Coffey, otoh he doesn't provide shooting to compensate this

Holiday is still a very competent point guard and defender. True, he has lost a step, but he is still a top level defensive player on 1s and 2s and even some 3s. Although he isn't a lights out shooter, teams honor his shot more than Dunn and he has better ball handling and playmaking skills than Bogdan. At times Bogdan looked nearly unplayable in the Denver series- that wouldn't happen with Holiday.

Holiday would be great on a different contract. Great winning player. He brings a combination of a lot of the skills of those guys, but better, but not at that price and kength

Exactly, i am not arguing that holiday is capable. He just not worth it with that contract. We are not a one piece away from a championship level team, getting Holiday will marginally improve our chances to reach finals. Better keep our options available for 2026 and 2027 summer.

[MartinToVaught]

I think the idea that the Clippers are blowing it off is hyperbolic, an obviously false, come on. If Ballmer could just buy draft picks And teams were selling them like they used to, The Clippers would be acquiring multiple ones of them to try and get additional talents.

No one in the NBA is oblivious to the fact that draft picks can be cheap talents, but it's about if you're able to acquire them, how you're able to acquire them. So I think it's a bit hyperbolic for us to think that they're just doing random things and don't actually understand what's going on. They do, but you can only do what you can with what you have.

I say the Clippers blow off the draft because that's exactly what their actions suggest. Constantly lying about getting younger and athletic, only to reach for the oldest prospects available. Repeating the same BS lines about "character and toughness" every year because they know they can't sell their draft picks' actual basketball ability with a straight face. And, of course, giving away draft picks like candy to other teams. And I'm not just talking about the PG trade, but also the Jeff Green trade, the EJ trade, so on and so forth.

Nothing this team does gives the impression that they value the draft at all. The Clippers only care about being the retirement home for stars/veterans who used to be good five years ago. They couldn't care less about the finer details of team-building that separate the first/second-round fodder we always are from the true contenders. I'll change my opinion when they start doing anything different.