Clipper 2015 Offseason

[Chriscarr9924]

C.Paul | A.Rivers | N.Robinson
J.Redick | J.Crawford | R.Allen | CJ.Wilcox
P.Pierce | M.Barnes | H.Turkoglu | D. Jones
B.Griffin | G.Davis | R.Christmas
D.Jordan | S.Hawes


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[TucsonClip]

Sorry guys, missed these responses.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2484374-how-los-angeles-clippers-can-sell-free-agent-deandre-jordan-on-return-to-la

[og15]

C.Paul | A.Rivers | N.Robinson
J.Redick | J.Crawford | R.Allen | CJ.Wilcox
P.Pierce | M.Barnes | H.Turkoglu | D. Jones
B.Griffin | G.Davis | R.Christmas
D.Jordan | S.Hawes


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I don't get this. If the Clippers bring this roster next season, then something went wrong with the off-season.

Okay, Pierce is nice, but nothing to help with the wing defense or adding a backup big man that can defend, and Jamal is still on the team. No thanks. I don't dislike Jamal, but his role has to decrease a lot, he can't be given such a significant role and impact in the teams ability to win or lose games. If his role is going to decrease so much, you're better off trading him. I can't see him being content with being a 15 mpg player who you leave in longer if he's hot. Basically you play him based on whether he's hot or not, and if not you bench him.

I'd be content with Jamal + Cash for Gerald Henderson + 2nd round pick. Sure, re-sign DJ. Go Paul Pierce and try to convince him to sign for the minimum, and if that is possible, then go after Alexis Ajinca with the mini-MLE. Re-sign Rivers just because the options aren't plenty. If Pierce doesn't want the minimum, then maybe you can sign and trade Ajinca for Barnes, give New Orleans some SF depth and a veteran, then use the mini MLE on Pierce.

Personally I would love to figure out a means of signing and trading for Brandon Bass using Spencer Hawes. Something like Bass to the Clippers, Hawes to the Blazers if they lose Aldridge, and some compensation to Boston for facilitating it.

In the end, maybe something like:

Chris Paul / Nate Robinson
J.J. Redick / Austin Rivers / C.J. Wilcox
Paul Pierce / Gerald Henderson / Jordan Hamilton
Blake Griffin / Brandon Bass
DeAndre Jordan / Alexis Ajinca

2nd round pick is either a wing or a big. I'd love McDaniels, but there's no reason why Houston shouldn't match any reasonable deal, and the Clippers can't offer any unreasonable deals.

[nickhx2]

I generally like the plan, og, except for the nate robinson part. Time and time again, doc has shown that he will let any bench scrub hijack the offense away from his two best players, no matter how awful he is. We just can't go into the next season with crawford or any one of his nba clones.

I do think hendo is more of a two-guard, fwiw, but hell, that's still a lot better than what we're rolling with.

Personally i'd like brandan wright cause i think he's better defensively (he did all kinds of things for dallas before he was traded), but bass would work. And as much moxie as paul pierce has, i kind of think we absolutely have to go after gerald green. PP will never turn into a good defender at this point, but maybe doc rivers can get green to buy in, since he's at least got the athleticism. One or the other works, though. Or maybe just sign both and run with that.

Anyway, that's a lot of wants without much work to show for it. Assuming we're getting DJ back, I'd do something like this:

1. crawford/hawes/wilcox for brandon jennings/cory jefferson, trade idea courtesy of bondom: http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1390536#start_here

2. use MMLE on brandan wright

3. throw some money at some team for a second rounder, use it to pick up ANYONE with 3 and D potential. need to target high reward players, regardless of risk.

4. resign austin with limited bird, 2 years at max.

5. re-sign glen davis for a 2 year deal, with team option. make the deal big enough that his deal now becomes pretty valuable as an expiring contract. idea from steve perrin, clipsnation: http://www.clipsnation.com/2015/5/23/8651803/did-the-clippers-underachieve-this-year?_ga=1.240258051.1623070487.1419358419

"So the Clippers should retain Big Baby this off-season -- and there's an argument to be made for paying him the full $5.6M allowed with his early Bird rights, even if no other team is willing to pay him anything close to that much. Why? Well they should retain him because their options for replacing his production via free agency are severely limited -- basically, they can sign one player with the mini MLE, after which they're down to minimum players. Davis isn't great, but he's better than anything they're going to get for that. More importantly, if they sign Davis for $5.6M, then they can trade him for a player making $7M -- or more if they combine him with other players. The Clippers best chance of adding useful players at this point is to take on good players on bad contracts."

6. sign PP or gerald green for vet min. push barnes to the bench so you can hide the other guy on defense a bit. should be for 1+1(team option) deals.

7. get rid of udoh, turkoglu. keep hudson/hamilton

8. get doc a brain transplant for a real GM and a coach who will actually develop young talent



start season with

PG: cp3/jennings/hudson

SG: redick/rivers/second rounder guy?

SF: pierce (or green)/barnes/hamilton

PF: blake/davis/jefferson

C: dj/wright

coach: guy who now plays younger dudes.

Summary: jennings gives us a young PG who can actually be the focal point and score. He was playing strong, winning basketball for detroit before his injury (after smith was traded). PP/gerald green give us a decent wing who can shoot, and while still not that dream glue guy we've been searching for, at least give us sensible depth. If it's green, doc might be able to push him to his potential the way he did with DJ. Davis would be the guy doc rivers trusts but you wanna start developing cory jefferson. And wright would give us that 3rd big who can play strong defense and play either spot.

Also, we get rid of one kinda crappy contract in hawes, several players who aren't doing anything for us (hawes/crawford/turk/udoh), and now have some more flexibility in time for the 2016-2017 FA cap boom year.

[QRich3]

re-sign glen davis for a 2 year deal, with team option. make the deal big enough that his deal now becomes pretty valuable as an expiring contract. idea from steve perrin, clipsnation: http://www.clipsnation.com/2015/5/23/8651803/did-the-clippers-underachieve-this-year?_ga=1.240258051.1623070487.1419358419

"So the Clippers should retain Big Baby this off-season -- and there's an argument to be made for paying him the full $5.6M allowed with his early Bird rights, even if no other team is willing to pay him anything close to that much. Why? Well they should retain him because their options for replacing his production via free agency are severely limited -- basically, they can sign one player with the mini MLE, after which they're down to minimum players. Davis isn't great, but he's better than anything they're going to get for that. More importantly, if they sign Davis for $5.6M, then they can trade him for a player making $7M -- or more if they combine him with other players. The Clippers best chance of adding useful players at this point is to take on good players on bad contracts."

I had no idea we could do this, I wonder if Doc and his minions are informed enough that they can come up with an unguaranteed expiring contract for Big Baby as a trade chip. Seems like one of the few things we can do to produce trade value from our roster.

Not to be a downer, but some of the optimistic ideas you guys are having are not really realistic imo. Ajinca and Brendan Wright are gonna get more than the mini-MLE in the open market, so forget about them. At this point, Jamal doesn't have enough trade value to fetch Gerald Henderson or Marvin Williams by himself. Brandon Bass is a nice option, but I wouldn't be surprised if he got more than the mini-MLE too.

I would say to be on the look for teams that might blow it up in the offseason, like Toronto or Portland. If they go the tanking route, they'll be trying to unload salary, and that's the only thing Crawford and Barnes are attractive for anymore. Maybe with some luck and a 2021 pick we can get one of Batum, Patterson, Terrence Ross, etc for their unguaranteed contracts. Long shot but worth monitoring.

Maybe if Hibbert opts in and the Pacers want to get rid of him too, if the Warriors want to dump Lee, or if EJ doesn't start the season well in NOLA. Let's see how much Scott Skiles likes Frye, if he gets in the doghouse he'd be an option too. All of this depending on other teams not offering real assets that beat our unguaranteed crap, of course. At this point we're limited to the Billy King way, either mortaging our future by taking veterans on bad contracts, or nothing at all.

[nickhx2]

re-sign glen davis for a 2 year deal, with team option. make the deal big enough that his deal now becomes pretty valuable as an expiring contract. idea from steve perrin, clipsnation: http://www.clipsnation.com/2015/5/23/8651803/did-the-clippers-underachieve-this-year?_ga=1.240258051.1623070487.1419358419

"So the Clippers should retain Big Baby this off-season -- and there's an argument to be made for paying him the full $5.6M allowed with his early Bird rights, even if no other team is willing to pay him anything close to that much. Why? Well they should retain him because their options for replacing his production via free agency are severely limited -- basically, they can sign one player with the mini MLE, after which they're down to minimum players. Davis isn't great, but he's better than anything they're going to get for that. More importantly, if they sign Davis for $5.6M, then they can trade him for a player making $7M -- or more if they combine him with other players. The Clippers best chance of adding useful players at this point is to take on good players on bad contracts."

I had no idea we could do this, I wonder if Doc and his minions are informed enough that they can come up with an unguaranteed expiring contract for Big Baby as a trade chip. Seems like one of the few things we can do to produce trade value from our roster.

Not to be a downer, but some of the optimistic ideas you guys are having are not really realistic imo. Ajinca and Brendan Wright are gonna get more than the mini-MLE in the open market, so forget about them. At this point, Jamal doesn't have enough trade value to fetch Gerald Henderson or Marvin Williams by himself. Brandon Bass is a nice option, but I wouldn't be surprised if he got more than the mini-MLE too.

I would say to be on the look for teams that might blow it up in the offseason, like Toronto or Portland. If they go the tanking route, they'll be trying to unload salary, and that's the only thing Crawford and Barnes are attractive for anymore. Maybe with some luck and a 2021 pick we can get one of Batum, Patterson, Terrence Ross, etc for their unguaranteed contracts. Long shot but worth monitoring.

Maybe if Hibbert opts in and the Pacers want to get rid of him too, if the Warriors want to dump Lee, or if EJ doesn't start the season well in NOLA. Let's see how much Scott Skiles likes Frye, if he gets in the doghouse he'd be an option too. All of this depending on other teams not offering real assets that beat our unguaranteed crap, of course. At this point we're limited to the Billy King way, either mortaging our future by taking veterans on bad contracts, or nothing at all.

Yeah i didn't know we could make that move either. I would bet dollars to donuts that doc has no clue either. We might want to start emailing steve ballmer a list of basic things doc should be doing this offseason, as well as the basic functions a front office can make in general. Here's how to make a trade! Here's how to count salary! We can even write a book for doc and title it: "NBA CBA for dummies: with arithmetic!" Ballmer SERIOUSLY needs to hire a cap expert. All tom penn's been doing lately is playing on the giant touchscreen at ESPN, and he could help quite a bit.

I can see what you're saying about the moves being optimistic. Shrug, maybe they are, but i feel enough are just within the realm of possibility to mention them at least. I also do agree we need to be on the hunt for teams looking to blow it all up. LMA bouncing from portland to SA would be super scary. But at the same time they might decide it's time for a firesale and we could stand to benefit. The timing might be a bit wonky, though, cause if they were going to want crawford/barnes, don't their contracts need to be waived before june 30th? And doesn't FA begin in july?

Either way, yeah, see what teams like portland and toronto want to do. Maybe others if big names leave:

atlanta - if millsap leaves, i'm sure they would love hawes in that system, and they'd want to spend big to keep carroll so we could snag some filler guys like scott, antic. maybe thabo, maybe a pick

memphis - if gasol moves, they might like hawes too. furthermore, their series against GS highlighted their gigantic need for shooting. courtney lee would be pretty nifty with us. would rather have tony allen but i can't imagine they'd trade him straight up for hawes. jeff green didn't work out so well for them so maybe we give crawford/hawes to them and take green back, assuming he opts in (and assuming memphis doesn't blow it all up if gasol leaves)

etc.

We have some outs, even if they are super dependent on other teams wanting to retool or start over.

[QRich3]

I also do agree we need to be on the hunt for teams looking to blow it all up. LMA bouncing from portland to SA would be super scary. But at the same time they might decide it's time for a firesale and we could stand to benefit. The timing might be a bit wonky, though, cause if they were going to want crawford/barnes, don't their contracts need to be waived before june 30th? And doesn't FA begin in july?

True, I hadn't realised that. It also makes any Crawford-Henderson trade difficult, since Hendo will probably wait it out until the last second to pick up his player option. Same for Hibbert.

Yeah, I'm the first to wish we could get an impact player, but all of the trade scenarios I can think of that I'd like, I'm pretty sure I'd give a hard no if I was on the other side.

Jeff Green could be a nice darkhorse option, I doubt either side was very pleased with their time together last season.

[Wammy Giveaway]

I had no idea we could do this, I wonder if Doc and his minions are informed enough that they can come up with an unguaranteed expiring contract for Big Baby as a trade chip. Seems like one of the few things we can do to produce trade value from our roster.

Glen Davis is not the only trade chip that can be had. Hedo Turkoglu also qualifies for the $5.6 million pay raise. If the Clippers pull their cards right, they will have $11.2 million.

But there's more. If done right, they could trade for a superstar... without giving up any of the core guys.

Assuming Jamal Crawford, Matt Barnes, Spencer Hawes and C.J. Wilcox all become additional chips, the Clippers may end up with an estimated trade package worth $25.9 million. All that, and you don't have to lose Paul, Griffin, Jordan or Redick to a forced rebuild. You could use this new package to go after Kevin Durant early, get Paul's friend in Carmelo Anthony, or get Paul George to become your starting small forward. I would prefer George because, in the event Doc reunites with former Celtics Big 3 member Paul Pierce, George can instantly play both shooting guard and small forward.

There are catches:

1. Clippers must stay in tax territory for this to work. Going under could trigger the hard cap.
2. Glen Davis and Hedo Turkoglu cannot be traded until the deadline. Even with the early bird rights, they will be signing as free agents, meaning they can't be traded until December 15 or 3 months after the deal, whichever is the latest. Clips will have to play with most of the same guys as last year, maybe with a worse starting record putting them at the 8th seed or lower. But the core three will keep them afloat for the moment. This means more Crawford, more Barnes and more Hawes for a little while longer.

Let me go back to Paul Pierce because I just thought of a very unusual scenario. We know Pierce signed with the Wizards for the full mid-level. He has the option of opting out. But suppose he still wants the full mid-level. If he opts in, you'll have to trade Crawford directly. If he opts out, you'll have to trade Crawford for a trade exception. This could work for or against the Clippers.

If Pierce opts in, all you're doing is trading a player for roughly the same value.

If Pierce opts out and still wants a full mid-level or close to it, what you're doing is opening up a roster spot and possibly gaining some change in return. A full mid-level, when cap space is used up and you're below the tax apron, is worth $5.3 million. Crawford is now $5.6 million. You could give Pierce part of the exception at the same value of the mini mid-level, with your other true mini mid-level already in reserve. Plus, you have almost $2 million to "fake" out a bi-annual exception. They have options.

[nickhx2]

ok, so, revision time. btw this dumb trade news has wasted about 2 hours out of my day so far.

Easy, no-brainer things we still need to do:

- max DJ
- re-sign austin

Things that are more up in the air, because you don't know if they will take our money

- Go big, and go wing. But here's where it gets dicey. IMO, we need to use the MMLE on a big. I know brandan wright might be a pipe dream, but we should try. If not, brandon bass should be a reasonable get. But once we use MMLE on big we can't use it on a wing. This might take PP out of the equation.

- So, IMO, go after wright > bass, sign gerald green. If we get neither wright/bass, use MMLE on paul pierce, sign green for VM anyway, and then try to get greg stiemsma or something for the VM.

Do something with jamal crawford

- trade him, cut him, send him on a cruise and hope he never returns. but at all costs he cannot come back to LA. i just can't think of too many options for crawford now that we've traded his two best package partners in hawes and barnes.

[TucsonClip]

I don't think Doc can let his son walk away. That's up to $3.1 million we cant spend anywhere else. Re-sign Austin, have Lance in the fold, Crawford is on the block, tax payer's MLE. Lots of options right now.

[og15]

ok, so, revision time. btw this dumb trade news has wasted about 2 hours out of my day so far.

Easy, no-brainer things we still need to do:

- max DJ
- re-sign austin

Things that are more up in the air, because you don't know if they will take our money

- Go big, and go wing. But here's where it gets dicey. IMO, we need to use the MMLE on a big. I know brandan wright might be a pipe dream, but we should try. If not, brandon bass should be a reasonable get. But once we use MMLE on big we can't use it on a wing. This might take PP out of the equation.

- So, IMO, go after wright > bass, sign gerald green. If we get neither wright/bass, use MMLE on paul pierce, sign green for VM anyway, and then try to get greg stiemsma or something for the VM.

Do something with jamal crawford

- trade him, cut him, send him on a cruise and hope he never returns. but at all costs he cannot come back to LA. i just can't think of too many options for crawford now that we've traded his two best package partners in hawes and barnes.

Well there's always the non-sexy trades like Crawford for Chase Budinger, lol

[nickhx2]

indeed. i would be super for that, btw

seriously, virtually anything to get crawford off this freaking team is fine by me lol

[QRich3]

So, following Nick's idea of re-signing Big Baby to a $5.6M unguaranteed contract, and after yesterday's trade, if we did exactly that, we would have:

Lance's $9M contract
Jamal's $5.6M contract
Big Baby's $5.6M contract

Which amounts to $20,275,000 in total salary. Using the 125% rule (since we'd probably be over the cap), we could possibly trade for up to $25,343,750 in salary, and Joe Johnson makes $24,894,863 next year. If the Nets are not competitive next season they'd probably love to shed some salary, so maybe that's an option after December 15th?

Not that Joe Johnson is overly exciting at this point in his career, but he's one of the few legit talented SF's we could feasibly trade for.

[nickhx2]

i think that definitely works cause we'd only want to trade lance for johnson if lance were torpedoing the season. but the nets are delusional and probably still think they can win championships with their lineup, so i guess we'd have to see if they change their minds.

that said, this relies on the premise that crawford is still with us, which i'm more and more seeing as the probable thing cause doc will just start lance at SF which makes this trade hugely regressive. and the idea that crawford is still with the team going into the season simply makes me retch.

[QRich3]

Yeah I don't like the idea either but it seems that's where we're headed.

The motivation for the Nets would be to shed about $10M salary, plus however many dollars that means for their hellish tax bill. Plus the whole Lance as a Brooklyn prodigy or whatever, though I guess the Hornets already tried to sell them that last deadline and it didn't fly.

[JayClips92]

Re-Sign DJ for the max
Re-sign Austin for no more than 3.1m/yr
Re-sign Big Baby
Sign Paul Pierce for vet min.
Trade Jamal to the Bucks for Zaza Pachulia
Use MMLE on KJ McDaniels
Try and sign Ed Davis for Vet min. (or Ekpe Udoh if someone pays Ed Davis)
Try to buy a 2nd round pick an athletic, scrappy PG

Doc convinces Thibs to come be our associate head coach (Balmer can pay him like a head coach since there's no cap with coaches)


CP3/Austin/TBD Rookie
JJ/Lance/CJ
PP/KJ/Lance
BG/Ed Davis/Big Baby
DJ/Zaza/Big Baby

[TucsonClip]

I brought this up elsewhere but J.J. Hickson could be a viable candidate for our PF/C

Here is an idea of how we could get him:

Clippers Acquire: J.J. Hickson

Pacers Acquire: Jamal Crawford and Danilo Gallinari

Nuggets Acquire: Roy Hibbert and Solomon Hill



Mike Malone lands his defensive rim protector and a versatile wing who can defend while jettisoning Gallo and Hickson. The Pacers beef up their offense and tempo with Gallo's shooting at the 3 and Crawford off the bench at the 2. The Clippers trade a year of Crawford for a year of Hickson and his rebounding, filling out their big man rotation. Signing Pierce in gives Doc his stretch 4 and a low minute starter at the 3.

From there we can use the Tax payer's MLE on another defensive wing like Aminu (unlikely) or a shooter and solid defender like Dunleavy.

Paul - Rivers

Redick - Stephenson - Wilcox

Pierce - Dunleavy

Griffin - Hickson - Davis

Jordan - vet FA C

[nickhx2]

i can't really say that i'm fond of jj hickson, and i kind of see him as a high level rebounder who doesn't do much else very well. but yeah he would certainly be better than keeping crawford on.

that said, if we were to get pierce and dunleavy (or even if we don't) i think there is a strong possibility that lance becomes our off the bench SF, with wilcox taking jamal's place. one of the only ways this team can improve at this point is for wilcox to actually start playing. even doc has to realize that.

with that, i don't see any reason we couldn't trot out a bench lineup with

rivers/wilcox/lance/dunleavy (or pierce) as the PF, and a mixture of davis/blake/dj/whoever we sign at the 5 for some unreal spacing and shooting. it might lack for power and size up front, but i think these finals have shown that you can kill even the biggest giants with speed, spacing, and shooting.

[Roscoe Sheed]

I like Jordan Hamilton more than Wilcox

[og15]

J.J. Hickson is a horrible C and a bad defensive player all around, definitely no to him