Game 56: Los Angeles Clippers (37-18) vs. Sacramento Kings (22-33) - 3:30 PM ET

[Roscoe Sheed]

When are pg13 and Beverley coming back. It’s kind of strange that they practiced but didn’t play

[esqtvd]

Would of went with Coffey and Jackson and kept Morris in the game.

well, there you have it
a G Leaguer and a guy who's been a Clipper for like 20 minutes
but thanks for the answer


I'd call that the panic button but in a loss one can always say the panic button should have been pushed

[esqtvd]

When are pg13 and Beverley coming back. It’s kind of strange that they practiced but didn’t play

maybe that's what Kawhi was talking about

"You never know what could happen," he said following Saturday's 112-103 loss to the Sacramento Kings, per Ohm Youngmisuk of ESPN.com. "But I mean, now. The time is now. Just got to keep getting better."

Saturday marked the Clippers' third straight loss, and Leonard pointed to the need to get healthy and peak at the right time while heading into the stretch run.

"But it doesn't matter what seed you are," he continued. "Just got to keep fighting. It is about the right team peaking at the right time. I don't think we have even got there yet. It feels like we are getting close, but we just need guys to get healthy."

Along those lines, Los Angeles was without Paul George (hamstring) and Patrick Beverley (groin) in the loss. Youngmisuk noted the team started its 28th different lineup of the season, which has cut into its ability to fully develop chemistry.

Leonard rarely shows emotion on the floor, but there was a moment in the fourth quarter Saturday when he expressed frustration that Landry Shamet did not cut toward the basket on a break:


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https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2877557-kawhi-leonard-says-time-is-now-for-clippers-to-improve-after-loss-to-kings

[esqtvd]

Wouldnt a solution actually be Zu and Trez combo, just like OKC played Adams/Kanter duo against Spurs in WCSF which ultimately brought them the win in series.

Everybody is obsessed with going small these days, these two on the floor would potentialy be fatal in crashing the glass, considering Kawhi likes ISO on side, and Shamet going through lots of screens. Two big's settings huge screens would mean more space, and Montrezl can atleast somewhat space the floor here or there ...

Twin Towers hasn't worked anywhere in the NBA that I can recall. The latest failure is Embiid and Horford. Horford's been moved to the bench.

[NippySudz]

We cannot be wasting time bullsh..ing with games anymore. There's no reason why zubac should be hardcapped at 20 mins. If zu is only going to play 20 mins, then please adjust the rotations so that its spread out to at least the 4th quarter.

Second unit needs to do a better job of not playing Lou-Ball. Lou is a gift and curse. I love him as a player, I love what he brings. I just don't love it to that extent. Reggie being in the second unit will hopefully help with this. But we can't rely on 2 guys playing one dimensional pnr which hasn't been as effective this season while we have other weapons on the team.

I really hope someone in th analytics department can get through the coaching staff to make adjustments. I'm not saying coach by analytics. I'm saying use the tool. Stop ignoring it and coaching early 2010s basketball. Everyones using the tool now, it would be silly to ignore it.

[MartinToVaught]

I think what we're seeing now is why it was a mistake to keep Doc as coach when we fired him as GM. He's not on the same page with the current front office and probably never will be. The new front office should have been given the chance to pick a coach that fits the roster and style they wanted to build.

[NippySudz]

We had the lead we just needed defense to close. You could feel the momentum of Lou and Harrell coming down when Lou went out. Shamet also needs his minutes to come down some

shamet needs to be on the floor, but he needs to score! He can't score when the second unit only has Lou and Trez getting the ball. Lou-Ball will work some games, in spots. Lou-ball should be a luxury, not a necessity. We shouldn't be depending on a good performance from Lou will to win games. There';s no excuse shamet has six shots, with most of it coming from kawhi. Shamet plays in the second unit staggered with lou and is not getting shots. He's the best shooter on the team. The TEAM needs to do a better job of getting him shots.

You cannot play 34 mins and only have 6 shots when you're the best shooter on the freaking team.

[NippySudz]

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We scored 2 points in the last 6:02 so the decision was to not play the player who gave you a higher chance for second chance points ?

I don't believe in Zu or trezz. Back up centers posing as more than that.

That being said, this was a poor decision by doc and will continue to be a poor decision if doc doesn't make the **** adjustment. You have scorers on the team. You need rebounding when you're tied up. I've defended doc, I don't agree with a few of his decisions and I'd argue he's a good coach. He's not as good as pop or anything like that, but he's better than fair, better than vogel imo

But this stubborn sh.. is just so indefensible. The games shouldn't be this hard. I give all the credit for TREZ getting the clippers back into the game. He's right. we needed his offense. He did his job while kawhi sat. The thing is, he was willing to sub out lou for a breather and subbed kawhi back in. He was willing to sit Lou who was on a run, but he will not do the same with trez.

Stop it. Make the adjustment. Stop d--icking around. We don't have the time anymore. If the adjustment doesn't work and it costs us a game, then it cost us a game. It's better than doing the same sh.. all season and expecting the same result.

He's probably thinking with kawhi in the lineup and PG, they won't have to worry about this being a thing if healthy, but please stop. I think he's making it harder than it is. Play zu when zu is needed. and sit him when he's not.

the playoffs don't go according to plan. How is this helping zu prepared to play in the 4th if he's needed or called upon? What if someone goes down or fouls out? Get the man some reps. I'm not saying playing more than trez right now. I'm not saying increase his mins(though I wouldn't be oppose to that) But he needs to see some action in the 4th quarter this season.

We can't just wait til the WCF, should we get there and say, oh btw zu you're playing the 4th q now.

[NippySudz]

When are pg13 and Beverley coming back. It’s kind of strange that they practiced but didn’t play

not strange at all. the last thing we need is another injury. They need to work them back in slowly. good to know they'vve been upgraded to questionable for mondays game.

[nickhx2]

i don't recall what pb's injury was, but paul george strained his hamstring for a third time this season. it's the kind of thing where you really don't want to risk anything. my assumption is that any practice he goes through is fairly tame, if he's not able to play in real games. and that's fine because you gotta stay conditioned and keep the muscles strengthened, but you don't wanna overdo it.

[NippySudz]

i don't recall what pb's injury was, but paul george strained his hamstring for a third time this season. it's the kind of thing where you really don't want to risk anything. my assumption is that any practice he goes through is fairly tame, if he's not able to play in real games. and that's fine because you gotta stay conditioned and keep the muscles strengthened, but you don't wanna overdo it.

Sore groin. I'm speculating it was a strain and they're just not telling the public. That's one team that needs to go is the clippers medical staff. I was hoping they would be gone before kawhi arrived. There's no reason donald sterling's medical staff should be still part of the organisation.

I don't know about that. Doc said they participated in full practices and he's was shooting before the game. I think its just they want to give it time to relax the muscle.

[nickhx2]

with any strain he's gonna need continued rehab, and practice would be a good way to do that while ramping up to the rigors of a full game. it sounds like they're doing the right thing with his return.

[esqtvd]

We cannot be wasting time bullsh..ing with games anymore. There's no reason why zubac should be hardcapped at 20 mins. If zu is only going to play 20 mins, then please adjust the rotations so that its spread out to at least the 4th quarter.

Second unit needs to do a better job of not playing Lou-Ball. Lou is a gift and curse. I love him as a player, I love what he brings. I just don't love it to that extent. Reggie being in the second unit will hopefully help with this. But we can't rely on 2 guys playing one dimensional pnr which hasn't been as effective this season while we have other weapons on the team.

I really hope someone in th analytics department can get through the coaching staff to make adjustments. I'm not saying coach by analytics. I'm saying use the tool. Stop ignoring it and coaching early 2010s basketball. Everyones using the tool now, it would be silly to ignore it.

Analytics. Yes, by all means. It looks like you [and some others] missed or completely ignored OG's exhaustive analysis of the stats. Let's review them for those who came in late.

That’s of course the second question, and maybe a harder one to figure out, or maybe not. One way we can attempt to hypothesize is look at two and three man lineups such as Kawhi/Zubac vs Kawhi/Harrell and Lou/Zubac vs Lou/Harrell and Kawhi/George/Zubac vs Kawhi/George/Harrell and try and get a feel for what’s happening there. Of course sample sizes might not be sufficient to make conclusions. Here’s some of that.

With Leonard:
Zubac: 698 mins, 112.5 Ortg, 105.3 Drtg, +7.2 NetRtg
Harrell: 635 mins, 116.8 Ortg, 100.4 Drtg, +16.5 NetRtg

With Williams:
Zubac: 299 mins, 103.1 Ortg, 107.2 Drtg, -4.2 NetRtg
Harrell: 1222 mins, 110.9 Ortg, 106.5 Drtg, +4.4 NetRtg

With Leonard and George:
Zubac: 355 mins, 114.7 Ortg, 104.9 Drtg, +9.8 NetRtg
Harrell: 199 mins, 109.7 Ortg, 97.4 Drtg, +12.3 NetRtg

So the first thing to notice is that when they are on the floor with Kawhi, a combination that has good and similar sample sizes for both, the units with Harrell is really moping the floor with the units that have Zubac. This is certainly a good argument for the coaching staffs use of Harrell. That unit is also 5 points/100 better on defense.

Second is that when you isolate each with Williams, we see that Harrell is actually still winning on both ends, but also that Zubac does not provide enough offensive help and there’s a drastic drop off offensively. Overall there’s a 8.2 point/100 difference in team production, and again, defensively, you’re still getting a better result with Harrell. Large discrepancy in sample size here though.

Now we look at with both George and Leonard, and we see something different offensively, we get a drop there, and maybe surprising to some, but defensively again, the lineups with Harrell win by a large margin, this time 7.5 pts/100 better on defense, and still having a better NetRtg despite being inferior on offense.

That’s a lot of data pointing in one direction and should certainly be analyzed and taken into account.

The Bench Lineups
In terms of the bench struggling defensively, SlayrofDynasties mentioning of the 3 man combination of Williams/Shamet/Harrell is telling, and obviously it makes sense. Two smaller guards like that can be trouble on defense depending on who the players are. With Williams, Shamet will get forced to guard less favourable matchups for him, reducing his defensive effectiveness, and Williams is just not a good defender either way.

Williams/Harrell/Shamet: 460 mins, 110.0 Ortg, 110.9 Drtg, -1.0 NetRtg

BUT, If we add Leonard to the Williams/Shamet combo:
Williams/Leonard/Shamet: 249 mins, 112.9 Ortg, 107.5 Drtg, +5.3 NetRtg

So Kawhi is able to balance out that combination when he plays with them.

Okay, what about having Leonard on with Williams and Harrell?
Leonard/Williams/Harrell: 464 mins, 114.8 Ortg, 98.8 Drtg, +16.0 NetRtg

The lineups with Leonard/Williams/Harrell is actually one of the strongest 3 man combinations on the team. So Kawhi has been a balancing force for the Williams/Harrell combo in a whole season sense, they are elite both on offense and defense for their 464 minutes. If we look at 3 man lineups with 150+ mins, out of the top 15 in Drtg, Harrell is part of 7 of them. In the top 20, he’s part of 10 of the 20. Zubac on the other hand is part of just 1 of the top 15, and that is 12th, and just two in the top 20. Harrell is part of the best 3 man unit with 150+ minutes, Beverley/Leonard/Harrell (246 mins, 122.5 Ortg, 91.1 Drtg, +31.4 NetRtg).


Since January
Piggy backing off the other thread about Williams and Harrell in the New Year, since January:

With Leonard:
Zubac: 293 mins, 115.9 Ortg, 110.5 Drtg, +5.5 NetRtg
Harrell: 225 mins, 120.5 Ortg, 108.8 Drtg, +11.8 NetRtg

With Williams:
Zubac: 121 mins, 103.0 Ortg, 109.3 Drtg, -6.3 NetRtg
Harrell: 456 mins, 110.2 Ortg, 111.7 Drtg, -1.5 NetRtg

With George and Leonard:
Zubac: 83 mins, 114.0 Ortg, 110.7 Drtg, +3.3 NetRtg
Harrell: 32 mins, 113.6 Ortg, 102.9 Drtg, +10.7 NetRtg

Williams/Leonard/Harrell: 171 mins, 118.4 Ortg, 107.6 Drtg, +10.8 NetRtg

I’ll have to say that I did not necessarily expect the numbers to look like this, but if we’re using lineup data and normalizing to an extent for who is on the court with the bigs (Zubac vs Harrell), lineups with Harrell are winning by a landslide when it comes to defense and overall net per possession production. This is both for the season as a whole and since the start of the new year.

So even in that sample size since January, you’re still getting a better result both offensive and defensively when you pair Kawhi and Harrell vs pairing Kawhi and Zubac. Playing either with Williams suggest that you are still getting a better overall result with Harrell, and then combined with the w/Leonard and w/George+Leonard data suggests that Harrell on his own is not giving an inferior defensive result to Zubac, but it is the pieces around them making the difference. The data is actually leaning towards Harrell giving a superior defensive contribution altogether, though it is not comprehensive and complete data to make a definitive statement like that. We also see that the Williams/Leonard/Harrell lineup even in January has been performing very well.

[MartinRiggs]

It is not all about stats and analytics. We are not robots and coach should follow his instinct and react to situation on court. There is no reason to hardcap anyone what will they do if Trez gets injured?

[donemilio21]

Doc needs to stop making BS excuses. after every loss he blames the injuries and keep saying that we don't have "rhythm". You are the highest paid coach in the league, find the **** rhythm against lottery teams.

[MartinToVaught]

Doc needs to stop making BS excuses. after every loss he blames the injuries and keep saying that we don't have "rhythm". You are the highest paid coach in the league, find the **** rhythm against lottery teams.

That's been Doc's standard procedure for as long as he's been here. He's always has an excuse for everything and knows how to avoid/spin questions he doesn't like. It's how he managed to keep his GM job for as long as he did.

At some point, it's also on Ballmer and Frank for not being able to see these transparent excuses for what they are. It still pisses me off that Doc had the nerve to whine that he "inherited a mess" after the Houston series years ago, even though we were better off before Doc was our GM and Doc forced his way out of Boston to coach said "mess."

[Wammy Giveaway]

Wrote this on the General Board about the Clipper's current struggles:

Doc Rivers lasted this long because of one thing: the Donald Sterling scandal, mainly in how he helped the franchise to overcome the racist comments of their owner in the midst of a first round playoff series. Without Doc steering the ship, the Clippers would have lost to the Warriors instantly. And even back then, the Clippers had issues taking the Warriors seriously... since they were the ones who single handedly created their dynasty by not taking them seriously in the 2012-13 season when they were a sub .500 lottery team.

In my years watching of Doc Rivers as coach, you get this feeling that he wants to win in the most unorthodox of ways. He either wants a super team in the exact same makeup as his 2007-08 Celtics championship team; or he wants a role player team that has zero All Stars, is led by a Sixth Man, and wins with love, friendship and family. He fears 3-game losing streaks because no team in NBA history has ever come back from a 3-0 playoff series deficit. He wants to be the first coach in NBA history to accomplish a 3-0 miracle comeback as some sort of feel good Cinderella story. He's more interested in combating the odds as it's more challenging than playing the odds, if not interesting since he comes from the old school ways of basketball. His stubbornness has served one good purpose, which is preventing his teams from ever being swept in the playoffs. On the other hand, he has two 3-1 collapses, is blinded by favorites and flash-in-the-pan players, and he only shows up when he's one loss away from being fired.

The only other good coaches out there would require the Clippers to trade a draft pick and undergo another gag order. Otherwise, they'd either have to go for a retread coach like Jeff Van Gundy, or a college coach. They could do an internal upgrade with Sam Cassell.

For all intents and purposes, though, they're stuck, it's Doc or bust. If they really want a new right coach, they would have to rebuild.

[madmaxmedia]

We cannot be wasting time bullsh..ing with games anymore. There's no reason why zubac should be hardcapped at 20 mins. If zu is only going to play 20 mins, then please adjust the rotations so that its spread out to at least the 4th quarter.

Second unit needs to do a better job of not playing Lou-Ball. Lou is a gift and curse. I love him as a player, I love what he brings. I just don't love it to that extent. Reggie being in the second unit will hopefully help with this. But we can't rely on 2 guys playing one dimensional pnr which hasn't been as effective this season while we have other weapons on the team.

I really hope someone in th analytics department can get through the coaching staff to make adjustments. I'm not saying coach by analytics. I'm saying use the tool. Stop ignoring it and coaching early 2010s basketball. Everyones using the tool now, it would be silly to ignore it.

There is a definite ceiling to Lou ball, and I think we're seeing it now. I also love what he brings and he carries a significant load on our team, but the reality is a championship team probably can't have a primary scorer shooting 41-42% from the field. If that's how your team is contructed, the math is going to come back to bite you. It was great last year when we were a scrappy surprise team hovering somewhat above .500, but not now. He can still be a significant contributor on this team, but the second unit can't be mainly Lou and Trez ball.

The same goes for Trez, in a different way. I love him but he has his own ceiling. Either Zu is going to develop into a genuine 30 MPG center soon, or we're going to need help in the middle.

[madmaxmedia]

Doc needs to stop making BS excuses. after every loss he blames the injuries and keep saying that we don't have "rhythm". You are the highest paid coach in the league, find the **** rhythm against lottery teams.

That's been Doc's standard procedure for as long as he's been here. He's always has an excuse for everything and knows how to avoid/spin questions he doesn't like. It's how he managed to keep his GM job for as long as he did.

At some point, it's also on Ballmer and Frank for not being able to see these transparent excuses for what they are. It still pisses me off that Doc had the nerve to whine that he "inherited a mess" after the Houston series years ago, even though we were better off before Doc was our GM and Doc forced his way out of Boston to coach said "mess."

I feel like Doc could still be a good leader of our men if he had the right offensive talent in the coaching staff (and trusted them.) Finding and generating offensive rhythm is their JOB after all.

[Clemenza]

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