Game 60: Los Angeles Clippers (40-19) vs. Philadelphia Sixers (37-23) - 3:30 PM ET

[NippySudz]

Trying to put other coaches that have never won a championship before Doc is just idiotic. Bud has done nothing in the playoffs to suggest he's a better coach than Doc. And let's not forget that Kerr got out coached by the guy sitting next to Doc as an assistant in the finals. This is just regular "grass is greener" crap. This team has been healthy 8 games and yet we're tied for second in the west. To act like what the team has been able to do in spite of injuries to main guys is just "whatever" just to try and downplay Doc because of agendas is wack and I can't take some posters seriously for trying to suggest that just anyone could've done better this year. It's laughable. No coach is perfect but yes, Doc should be according to some...

Couldn't said it any better myself.

Sometimes your coach is as only good as your personel. Atlanta couldn't win with buldenhozer. Partly his fault but last team to win without superstars were the Detroit pistons. That **** is hard

And if doc was coaching the warriors, I could see multiple titles for him. If Luke Walton can coach the warriors, so can doc.

I think Kerr is great, I think he took what Jackson had and added some wrinkles.

I'd live with doc over most western conference coaches currently in the wc playoff hunt. Even if I don't agree with some of his decisions. If the clippers don't live to to expectations this season and they fire him, I won't be rallying for doc.

But I'm going to give this a chance and see how it plays out and TBH I like our chances. When you have Kawhi,a top five player, arguably top 2 it elevates the team and the coaching.

Tell me, who could doc put defensively on the opposing teams best player and still get 27/7/5 during lob city years?

Not a damn person. Lob city ceiling was second round to maybe WCF depending on the year. People also forget clips were marred by injuries those years too

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[clipperlover]

Tell me, who could doc put defensively on the opposing teams best player and still get 27/7/5 during lob city years?

Not a damn person. Lob city ceiling was second round to maybe WCF depending on the year. People also forget clips were marred by injuries those years too

The coach and President of Basketball operations didn't value defense. They thought trotting out playoff line-ups that had Darren Collison, Redick and Crawford or Redick, Crawford and Silver Spoon on the floor together were taking us to the promised land. We had a player on those Lob City teams that had all the tools to become a great 2 way player, but the team never emphasized the defensive side of his game: Blake Griffin. No excuse for Blake spending more time becoming a 3 pt shooter than a defender. Vinny allowed the no D Blake era to begin and the Doc did nothing to change the course. So, let's not make excuses for Doc's Lob City era teams when he had control over everything.

We currently have two top notch two way players on this team because we changed the personnel decision making.

[clipperlover]

Buldenhozer I believe is the best coach in the NBA but he has to make a finals appearance. If he does not, he would have three 60+wins teams that failed to make the finals. Three.

Sorry. Right now, the top coach in the NBA has to be Taylor Jenkins. The sad part is that most people have no idea who he is. He has taken Memphis and put them in the playoff hunt. Memphis was 9 games under .500 on 12/20. If not for their recent 5 game losing streak (Jaren Jackson out for most of them), they would have a solid hold on the #8 spot. Memphis is the only playoff seeded team in the West that didn't have a player on the All-Star team and they had $17m in cap space tied up in a player that wasn't going to play for them. No one expected this from Memphis.

[esqtvd]

Trying to put other coaches that have never won a championship before Doc is just idiotic. Bud has done nothing in the playoffs to suggest he's a better coach than Doc. And let's not forget that Kerr got out coached by the guy sitting next to Doc as an assistant in the finals. This is just regular "grass is greener" crap. This team has been healthy 8 games and yet we're tied for second in the west. To act like what the team has been able to do in spite of injuries to main guys is just "whatever" just to try and downplay Doc because of agendas is wack and I can't take some posters seriously for trying to suggest that just anyone could've done better this year. It's laughable. No coach is perfect but yes, Doc should be according to some...

Couldn't said it any better myself.

Sometimes your coach is as only good as your personel. Atlanta couldn't win with buldenhozer. Partly his fault but last team to win without superstars were the Detroit pistons. That **** is hard

And if doc was coaching the warriors, I could see multiple titles for him. If Luke Walton can coach the warriors, so can doc.

I think Kerr is great, I think he took what Jackson had and added some wrinkles.

I'd live with doc over most western conference coaches currently in the wc playoff hunt. Even if I don't agree with some of his decisions. If the clippers don't live to to expectations this season and they fire him, I won't be rallying for doc.

But I'm going to give this a chance and see how it plays out and TBH I like our chances. When you have Kawhi,a top five player, arguably top 2 it elevates the team and the coaching.

Tell me, who could doc put defensively on the opposing teams best player and still get 27/7/5 during lob city years?

Not a damn person. Lob city ceiling was second round to maybe WCF depending on the year. People also forget clips were marred by injuries those years too

I think the interviews with Lob City these days are full of regret and acknowledgement that the fault is theirs they didn't make
it work. Too many egos, too young. Blake and DJ didn't take the game seriously enough. And CP was a prick and a bad leader.

And IMO, spending more than half of our money on just 3 players--and especially $20M+ on the severely limited DJ--was responsible for the thinness of the roster. By the end there, we were stuck with Jamal and Austin because of the cap--it was either sign them or sign minimum players. And as we saw, in the end CP and BG got their dough--there were to be no hometown discounts to make a better team.

[MartinToVaught]

Trying to put other coaches that have never won a championship before Doc is just idiotic. Bud has done nothing in the playoffs to suggest he's a better coach than Doc. And let's not forget that Kerr got out coached by the guy sitting next to Doc as an assistant in the finals. This is just regular "grass is greener" crap. This team has been healthy 8 games and yet we're tied for second in the west. To act like what the team has been able to do in spite of injuries to main guys is just "whatever" just to try and downplay Doc because of agendas is wack and I can't take some posters seriously for trying to suggest that just anyone could've done better this year. It's laughable. No coach is perfect but yes, Doc should be according to some...

Bud coached a Hawks team with zero superstars to 60 wins (the most they've ever had in a season) and the franchise's deepest playoff run since 1970. Not even Nique was able to give the Hawks a season like Bud gave them. Doc couldn't get 60 wins or a conference finals appearance with the Lob City teams that were way more talented than that Hawks team.

Fast forward to his time with the Bucks, and he was a blown call away from a 3-0 lead in the ECF and a trip to the Finals effectively on lock, all with only one superstar. When Doc had only one superstar in the East, he couldn't win a playoff series (even when he had a 3-1 lead).

As for Kerr: are we really going to act like the Warriors didn't go from losing to us in the first round to owning us consistently once Kerr took over? At one point, we had lost 12 straight games to Kerr's Warriors and most of them weren't even close.

Budenholzer and Kerr would have easily won a ring with the 2008 Celtics. I'm not sure Doc could replicate what Budenholzer and Kerr have done with their teams.

[NippySudz]

Trying to put other coaches that have never won a championship before Doc is just idiotic. Bud has done nothing in the playoffs to suggest he's a better coach than Doc. And let's not forget that Kerr got out coached by the guy sitting next to Doc as an assistant in the finals. This is just regular "grass is greener" crap. This team has been healthy 8 games and yet we're tied for second in the west. To act like what the team has been able to do in spite of injuries to main guys is just "whatever" just to try and downplay Doc because of agendas is wack and I can't take some posters seriously for trying to suggest that just anyone could've done better this year. It's laughable. No coach is perfect but yes, Doc should be according to some...

Bud coached a Hawks team with zero superstars to 60 wins (the most they've ever had in a season) and the franchise's deepest playoff run since 1970. Not even Nique was able to give the Hawks a season like Bud gave them. Doc couldn't get 60 wins or a conference finals appearance with the Lob City teams that were way more talented than that Hawks team.

Fast forward to his time with the Bucks, and he was a blown call away from a 3-0 lead in the ECF and a trip to the Finals effectively on lock, all with only one superstar. When Doc had only one superstar in the East, he couldn't win a playoff series (even when he had a 3-1 lead).

As for Kerr: are we really going to act like the Warriors didn't go from losing to us in the first round to owning us consistently once Kerr took over? At one point, we had lost 12 straight games to Kerr's Warriors and most of them weren't even close.

Budenholzer and Kerr would have easily won a ring with the 2008 Celtics. I'm not sure Doc could replicate what Budenholzer and Kerr have done with their teams.

The Hawks played in the East. Dwane Casey got an ecf berth and he was repeatedly exposed by LeBron James.

Kerr, I'll give you Kerr. Buldenhozer too but

Stop giving buldenhozer excuses for choking a 2-0 lead and losing four straight. The first time he did that with the Hawks, there was the no superstar excuse. He does it again with an MVP and the best player in the NBA and not only loses the series but gets back swept. Buldenhozer as great as he is has shown he can crack under pressure and make boneheaded substitutions that cost them the game or series

Like when he subbed out giannis only to sub him right back in after a possession in game three of the ecf.

If bud doesn't make it to the finals, he'd be a guy that got outcoached by two rookie head coaches. And he'd be forever known as a guy who can't make adjustments in the playoffs. Great regular season coach but not championship coach. He has a lot of pressure to deliver.

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[clipperlover]

Bud coached a Hawks team with zero superstars to 60 wins (the most they've ever had in a season) and the franchise's deepest playoff run since 1970. Not even Nique was able to give the Hawks a season like Bud gave them. Doc couldn't get 60 wins or a conference finals appearance with the Lob City teams that were way more talented than that Hawks team.

Fast forward to his time with the Bucks, and he was a blown call away from a 3-0 lead in the ECF and a trip to the Finals effectively on lock, all with only one superstar. When Doc had only one superstar in the East, he couldn't win a playoff series (even when he had a 3-1 lead).

As for Kerr: are we really going to act like the Warriors didn't go from losing to us in the first round to owning us consistently once Kerr took over? At one point, we had lost 12 straight games to Kerr's Warriors and most of them weren't even close.

Budenholzer and Kerr would have easily won a ring with the 2008 Celtics. I'm not sure Doc could replicate what Budenholzer and Kerr have done with their teams.

You are being disingenuous. You make it sound like Bud took over a team whose cupboard was bare. The fact is he took over a team that had been to the playoffs 6 straight seasons. Horford was an All-Star in this league before Bud ever got to Atlanta. When Bud arrived, they also added Millsap who had almost 50 games of playoff experience. Teague was also blossoming into a darn good player.

Bud's 60 win season was also the season Paul George was out with the broken leg and when the post Paul Piece/KG era started in Boston and the post LeBron era in Miami. A lot more parity in the EC that year.

[NippySudz]

I truly can't believe there are clipper fans on this board that think the lob city clippers had enough talent to win a championship where Kawhi Leonard, Kevin Durant, russell Westbrook, the splash brothers, harden all played in the same conference.

Where as the Eastern conference only had LeBron to worry about.

Probably the same people that think SGA is currently better than PG

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[nickhx2]

they had the core talent, just not the secondary and tertiary talent you need to support them properly.

the list of impact names that doc passed up on is myriad.

[clipperlover]

I truly can't believe there are clipper fans on this board that think the lob city clippers had enough talent to win a championship where Kawhi Leonard, Kevin Durant, russell Westbrook, the splash brothers, harden all played in the same conference.

Where as the Eastern conference only had LeBron to worry about.

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They never had enough defensive talent to win it all, nor did they address those defensive problems.

That said, they invested a ton of money in what they considered the best PG in the game, the best coach in the game and the best young talent in the game. They never did better than 3rd seed in the playoffs. So, I don't think anyone should be making excuses that other teams had more perceived talent. Harden and the Rockets were a garbage team, but they still beat us. Kawhi wasn't a top 10 draft pick and certainly not a #1 pick, so it is a little ridiculous to use him as an argument for his team having more talent.

Doc and his crew pissed away draft picks and missed out on several players along the way.
a. Bullock over Roberson and Gobert,
b. Wilcox and his 0 career starts vs 6 different guys that not only are still in the league, but have started over 50 games in a season (half with over 40 starts this season.
c. Brice Johnson over Siakam, Dejounte Murray and Brogdon. Siakam had more starts as a rookie than Johnson had career games.

The talent evaluation was just non-existent. If it wasn't for Chris Paul gifting us with a trade vice walking away, the cupboard would be bare. Thank heavens Lou, PB and Trez were salary cap fodder.

[NippySudz]

they had the core talent, just not the secondary and tertiary talent you need to support them properly.

the list of impact names that doc passed up on is myriad.

Doc trying to wear two hats, POBO and head coach was never a good idea.

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[NippySudz]

I truly can't believe there are clipper fans on this board that think the lob city clippers had enough talent to win a championship where Kawhi Leonard, Kevin Durant, russell Westbrook, the splash brothers, harden all played in the same conference.

Where as the Eastern conference only had LeBron to worry about.

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They never had enough defensive talent to win it all, nor did they address those defensive problems.

That said, they invested a ton of money in what they considered the best PG in the game, the best coach in the game and the best young talent in the game. They never did better than 3rd seed in the playoffs. So, I don't think anyone should be making excuses that other teams had more perceived talent. Harden and the Rockets were a garbage team, but they still beat us. Kawhi wasn't a top 10 draft pick and certainly not a #1 pick, so it is a little ridiculous to use him as an argument for his team having more talent.

Doc and his crew pissed away draft picks and missed out on several players along the way.
a. Bullock over Roberson and Gobert,
b. Wilcox and his 0 career starts vs 6 different guys that not only are still in the league, but have started over 50 games in a season (half with over 40 starts this season.
c. Brice Johnson over Siakam, Dejounte Murray and Brogdon. Siakam had more starts as a rookie than Johnson had career games.

The talent evaluation was just non-existent. If it wasn't for Chris Paul gifting us with a trade vice walking away, the cupboard would be bare. Thank heavens Lou, PB and Trez were salary cap fodder.

It doesn't matter if kawhi was top ten or top 100 draft pick, by 2015-2016 season he was becoming a superstar. Clippers eliminated the spurs the year before off Chris Paul's hamstring so I get your point but I'm talking about the totality of doc's tenure.

But I agree, the talent evaluation was straight up ass and they should have beaten the rockets. Cp3 missed two games in that series and they were up 3-1. They should have won but no way they were winning an NBA championship

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[nickhx2]

doc never should have been allowed to handle roster decisions and coaching at the same time.

that virtually everyone can agree on

[MartinToVaught]

I truly can't believe there are clipper fans on this board that think the lob city clippers had enough talent to win a championship where Kawhi Leonard, Kevin Durant, russell Westbrook, the splash brothers, harden all played in the same conference.

Where as the Eastern conference only had LeBron to worry about.

Probably the same people that think SGA is currently better than PG

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Win a championship? No. But that team should have at least made a conference finals. There's still no excuse for that Houston series.

[NippySudz]

I truly can't believe there are clipper fans on this board that think the lob city clippers had enough talent to win a championship where Kawhi Leonard, Kevin Durant, russell Westbrook, the splash brothers, harden all played in the same conference.

Where as the Eastern conference only had LeBron to worry about.

Probably the same people that think SGA is currently better than PG

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Win a championship? No. But that team should have at least made a conference finals. There's still no excuse for that Houston series.

Ok, fair enough

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[NippySudz]

I like the new breed of coaches, Nick nurse, Brad stevens, and a lesser extent Kerr because they aren't afraid to try new things.

Tenured coaches are very stubborn and rigid. I'm sure Nick nurse had never practiced the box and 1 coverage prior to the finals. He winged it and it worked. His adjustments on covering giannis. Stuff like that separates him from many coaches.

Budenholzer hasn't shown the ability to make adjustments where as doc has shown he's very stingy/stubborn with the center position.

It's going to be interesting should both teams be able to meet in the finals.

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[esqtvd]

I truly can't believe there are clipper fans on this board that think the lob city clippers had enough talent to win a championship where Kawhi Leonard, Kevin Durant, russell Westbrook, the splash brothers, harden all played in the same conference.

Where as the Eastern conference only had LeBron to worry about.

They never had enough defensive talent to win it all, nor did they address those defensive problems.

That said, they invested a ton of money in what they considered the best PG in the game, the best coach in the game and the best young talent in the game. They never did better than 3rd seed in the playoffs. So, I don't think anyone should be making excuses that other teams had more perceived talent. Harden and the Rockets were a garbage team, but they still beat us. Kawhi wasn't a top 10 draft pick and certainly not a #1 pick, so it is a little ridiculous to use him as an argument for his team having more talent.

Doc and his crew pissed away draft picks and missed out on several players along the way.
a. Bullock over Roberson and Gobert,
b. Wilcox and his 0 career starts vs 6 different guys that not only are still in the league, but have started over 50 games in a season (half with over 40 starts this season.
c. Brice Johnson over Siakam, Dejounte Murray and Brogdon. Siakam had more starts as a rookie than Johnson had career games.

The talent evaluation was just non-existent. If it wasn't for Chris Paul gifting us with a trade vice walking away, the cupboard would be bare. Thank heavens Lou, PB and Trez were salary cap fodder.

Under Sterling, we had the most underpaid and understaffed FO in the league. As for all the 'shouldawouldas' at the back of the draft who became useful players, the whole league passed on them too. There's always a few longshots that come in, but in the same draft Utah got Gobert for a second-rounder and cash, they drafted Trey Burke at #9, who was a bust.

It's still a crapshoot.

That said, it's good Doc's no longer the big boss but today there are like 6 guys, making millions upon millions of Ballmer bucks, doing the job Doc did for nothing under Sterling.

[NippySudz]

I truly can't believe there are clipper fans on this board that think the lob city clippers had enough talent to win a championship where Kawhi Leonard, Kevin Durant, russell Westbrook, the splash brothers, harden all played in the same conference.

Where as the Eastern conference only had LeBron to worry about.

They never had enough defensive talent to win it all, nor did they address those defensive problems.

That said, they invested a ton of money in what they considered the best PG in the game, the best coach in the game and the best young talent in the game. They never did better than 3rd seed in the playoffs. So, I don't think anyone should be making excuses that other teams had more perceived talent. Harden and the Rockets were a garbage team, but they still beat us. Kawhi wasn't a top 10 draft pick and certainly not a #1 pick, so it is a little ridiculous to use him as an argument for his team having more talent.

Doc and his crew pissed away draft picks and missed out on several players along the way.
a. Bullock over Roberson and Gobert,
b. Wilcox and his 0 career starts vs 6 different guys that not only are still in the league, but have started over 50 games in a season (half with over 40 starts this season.
c. Brice Johnson over Siakam, Dejounte Murray and Brogdon. Siakam had more starts as a rookie than Johnson had career games.

The talent evaluation was just non-existent. If it wasn't for Chris Paul gifting us with a trade vice walking away, the cupboard would be bare. Thank heavens Lou, PB and Trez were salary cap fodder.

Under Sterling, we had the most underpaid and understaffed FO in the league. As for all the 'shouldawouldas' at the back of the draft who became useful players, the whole league passed on them too. There's always a few longshots that come in, but in the same draft Utah got Gobert for a second-rounder and cash, they drafted Trey Burke at #9, who was a bust.

It's still a crapshoot.

That said, it's good Doc's no longer the big boss but today there are like 6 guys, making millions upon millions of Ballmer bucks, doing the job Doc did for nothing under Sterling.

Damn, you're right about that. Siakam also was a late rounder. The clippers organization just wasn't use to finding raw talent and developing them.

We're still not at that stage of finding talent and developing them as well as say the spurs, Miami, or the raptors.

Doc shouldn't have had two job titles. he didn't do a good job wearing two hats but also, ownership group failed the fans and the organization with sloppy leadership. Under balmer, he knew doc shouldn't wear two hats and rectified it and looked to hire the most qualified people



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[esqtvd]

They never had enough defensive talent to win it all, nor did they address those defensive problems.

That said, they invested a ton of money in what they considered the best PG in the game, the best coach in the game and the best young talent in the game. They never did better than 3rd seed in the playoffs. So, I don't think anyone should be making excuses that other teams had more perceived talent. Harden and the Rockets were a garbage team, but they still beat us. Kawhi wasn't a top 10 draft pick and certainly not a #1 pick, so it is a little ridiculous to use him as an argument for his team having more talent.

Doc and his crew pissed away draft picks and missed out on several players along the way.
a. Bullock over Roberson and Gobert,
b. Wilcox and his 0 career starts vs 6 different guys that not only are still in the league, but have started over 50 games in a season (half with over 40 starts this season.
c. Brice Johnson over Siakam, Dejounte Murray and Brogdon. Siakam had more starts as a rookie than Johnson had career games.

The talent evaluation was just non-existent. If it wasn't for Chris Paul gifting us with a trade vice walking away, the cupboard would be bare. Thank heavens Lou, PB and Trez were salary cap fodder.

Under Sterling, we had the most underpaid and understaffed FO in the league. As for all the 'shouldawouldas' at the back of the draft who became useful players, the whole league passed on them too. There's always a few longshots that come in, but in the same draft Utah got Gobert for a second-rounder and cash, they drafted Trey Burke at #9, who was a bust.

It's still a crapshoot.

That said, it's good Doc's no longer the big boss but today there are like 6 guys, making millions upon millions of Ballmer bucks, doing the job Doc did for nothing under Sterling.

Damn, you're right about that. Siakam also was a late rounder. The clippers organization just wasn't use to finding raw talent and developing them.

We're still not at that stage of finding talent and developing them as well as say the spurs, Miami, or the raptors.

Doc shouldn't have had two job titles. he didn't do a good job wearing two hats but also, ownership group failed the fans and the organization with sloppy leadership. Under balmer, he knew doc shouldn't wear two hats and rectified it and looked to hire the most qualified people

The narrative that Doc was pushed aside is questionable. Yes, he wanted to hold onto the PoBO title but Doc had already replaced the scouting department, replaced most of the sports medicine staff*, added a development guru in John Welch, added support staff like a nutritionist team chef, and replaced himself on GM-type duties with Lawrence Frank.

What Ballmer said was that in observing the formal chain-of-command, he had to go through Doc every time he wanted to discuss something with Frank. This was inefficient, so they took Doc out of that loop formally as well.

As I said, yes, Doc wanted to keep the title, and yes, he wanted to keep the last word, but had already replaced himself and the Sterling organization from top to bottom in the actual operation of the team. Had Doc had the budget and personnel in his PoBO days under Sterling, it would certainly have been a different story.

The mom-and-pop Sterling operation was a far cry from Ballmer Unlimited.


That said, it's better this way. I think Doc wanted the status and the autonomy more than actually wanting to watch game tape of Gonzaga vs. Arizona State.

___________________
*Yes, Jasen Powell's STILL around. I don't get it either.

[clipperlover]

Under Sterling, we had the most underpaid and understaffed FO in the league. As for all the 'shouldawouldas' at the back of the draft who became useful players, the whole league passed on them too. There's always a few longshots that come in, but in the same draft Utah got Gobert for a second-rounder and cash, they drafted Trey Burke at #9, who was a bust.

It's still a crapshoot.

That said, it's good Doc's no longer the big boss but today there are like 6 guys, making millions upon millions of Ballmer bucks, doing the job Doc did for nothing under Sterling.

C'mon Tom.

Blake, DJ, Bledsoe, Eric Gordon, Chris Paul, Bench called Quest were all moves done by Dunleavy and/or Olshey that didn't get paid anything near what Doc was paid when he came over. Those guys set Doc up for success and Doc's big signature moves for this team were:
1. Get rid of the rising, defensive minded PG star in order to trade for a no defense, career bench player and promote him to starter.
2. Get rid of a veteran SF for the Stay-Puft SF instead of filling the need at backup C by grabbing Gortat
3. Signing Byron Mullens as the solution at backup big.

Doc improved the Dunleavy/Olshey teams by 1 game for 1 season. Doc had one season with Sterling as owner and that was the most wins. Blaming Sterling for Doc's failures is laughable. Doc had exactly one team in his first 8 years that finished more than 6 games over .500. Then, Ainge gifted him Garnett and Ray Allen and he became some master coach that parlayed that team into 1 title and no back to back Conference Championship games.

Doc did have great success in pissing off so many players that they were happy to leave.

Doc is the coach and he isn't going anywhere, but he may be the most overrated coach in the NBA.