POLL: Tobias Harris Turns Down $80 Million | What's the Right Price?

[Quake Griffin]

Tobias is having a very nice season. He picked a good time to have it. Do you guys think the team is negotiating with him now or will he just wait to become a FA?

After the 4-year, $80-million offer was presented and turned down, I doubt the team is in active negotiations unless Tobias's camp is signaling to them that it's interested in talking. By the looks of things, Tobias and his representation are looking to see what they can get in the open market and there's no need for the organization to distract him from focusing on playing his best basketball.

Tobias seems to like playing here, so there's not much of an urgency to extend him or otherwise deal him away, especially with our available cap space for the upcoming summer and the ability to go over the salary cap to retain him via his Bird rights.

If he is a UFA isn't there a risk of losing him for nothing?

Yes, but we have his Bird rights so we can offer him more. But who wants to max out Tobias Harris?

He's a smart and seemingly well read guy.
He's going to check his other options.

He knows if Kawhi and KD are willing to sign, he can kick rocks.

[QRich3]

There will be teams like the Kings, Jazz, Pacers who already have a young core in place for whom offering Tobi a 4 year/$140M contract will be a good transaction even if it's more than what he should be paid and they know it. But adding him at cost zero will make that salary palatable.

For us, who only have one young core piece (one and a half if you want to count Trez' expiring) other than him, and will have no capspace anymore after signing him, it'd be a disaster, a way of locking ourselves up as a perennial 8th/9th seed, maybe perennial 5th/6th if they manage to add an all-NBA guy in the summer.

I still think the best course of action is to trade him at the deadline, even if it's for bad value. Failing that, just let him walk for nothing in the summer before you regret the contract he's getting.

[Galloisdaman]

It is a very important yet tough decision. I think its better to try to see what he wants so that they do not lose him for nothing. He was the main piece in the BG trade. Can't let him just walk away. I feel he is a good fit at the right price.

[Wammy Giveaway]

In his three stops with Bucks, Magic and Pistons, there were times that Harris actually came off the bench. Of the games where he played 20 minutes or more to register as a true reserve (less than a quarter's worth is garbage time), Harris came off the bench 5 times for Bucks (1-4 in those games), 31 times for Magic (8-23), and 36 times for Pistons (16-20). He has never come off the bench for the Clippers.

The one knock on Harris right now is his inability to transcend himself into a true superstar. Somebody who takes the offense into his own hands, scores in the 30's frequently and can make both clutch shots and Sudden Death Shots in the game's final frames. He feels more at home as a team contributor, scoring enough points for himself, then try to help his teammates. In the 15 games where he's gone past the 30-point mark (teams are 12-3 when he does), his average assist is 1.86. 29 points or less while playing 20 minutes or more (and there are 427 of them), it's just a tenth higher: 1.96. His career high of 8 assist came with a 9-point game. He has a losing record when he doesn't even have a single assist, 13-41, and of the 3 in the wins column, they were 30-point games.

Harris is a role starter, somebody who produces better in a starting role versus coming off the bench. Harris doesn't prefer to be the man, but on a Clippers team where they are desperate for a face to attract superstars after losing their own superstars in trades, he is content with pretending to be one for the long haul. This is why I think he should get less. How less?

Mid-level exception best.

[Ranma]

Mid-level exception best.

I agreed with pretty much everything in your assessment of Tobias Harris, except that I totally disagree that he's only worth the mid-level exception. Yes, he's not a true star player and he really excels in a complementary role, which allows him to produce star numbers but he's at least a solid starter and arguably worthy of a spot on the All-Star team.

It may seem hypocritical of me to say that Harris is not a true star player but worthy of All-Star recognition, but I'm saying that Harris is having an All-Star worthy season. His career up to this point seems to put him on the precipice of becoming one but he still needs to improve on some aspects of his game such as assists (like Wammy pointed out), defense, and coming up big more often in key moments of the game.

He obviously has the potential and character to improve further, but it also seems like he's comfortable with and a bit settled into his current role.

[Galloisdaman]

In his three stops with Bucks, Magic and Pistons, there were times that Harris actually came off the bench. Of the games where he played 20 minutes or more to register as a true reserve (less than a quarter's worth is garbage time), Harris came off the bench 5 times for Bucks (1-4 in those games), 31 times for Magic (8-23), and 36 times for Pistons (16-20). He has never come off the bench for the Clippers.

The one knock on Harris right now is his inability to transcend himself into a true superstar. Somebody who takes the offense into his own hands, scores in the 30's frequently and can make both clutch shots and Sudden Death Shots in the game's final frames. He feels more at home as a team contributor, scoring enough points for himself, then try to help his teammates. In the 15 games where he's gone past the 30-point mark (teams are 12-3 when he does), his average assist is 1.86. 29 points or less while playing 20 minutes or more (and there are 427 of them), it's just a tenth higher: 1.96. His career high of 8 assist came with a 9-point game. He has a losing record when he doesn't even have a single assist, 13-41, and of the 3 in the wins column, they were 30-point games.

Harris is a role starter, somebody who produces better in a starting role versus coming off the bench. Harris doesn't prefer to be the man, but on a Clippers team where they are desperate for a face to attract superstars after losing their own superstars in trades, he is content with pretending to be one for the long haul. This is why I think he should get less. How less?

Mid-level exception best.

Really?

He is going to get well over 20 a year. I do not think that is even in question.

[esqtvd]

This is why I think he should get less. How less?

Mid-level exception best.

Really?

He is going to get well over 20 a year. I do not think that is even in question.

Don't even.


Aaron Gordon got 4 yr/$84M
Jabari Parker got 2 yr/$20M
Zach LaVine got 4 yr/$78M
Derrick Favors got 2 yr/$36M


Tobias doesn't even pick up the phone for less than 25

[QRich3]

He's definitely getting $30-35M a year, either from us or from some other team. I mean, I'm not the biggest fan of the guy, mostly cause he's a bad defender, but he's scoring 20 a game on 60 TS%, to go with his 8 boards, and he is 2 missed free throws away from a 50/40/90 season. With all of his flaws, he's a hell of player.

If this was 2015 when we had two franchise cornerstones, I'd give A LOT of stuff and mortgage a lot of the future to be able to get him. But it's 2019 and we have a weird mismatch of a team where only a couple of guys or three have a future here. We should be looking to get future picks and prospects, more than maxing 26 year old borderline stars.

[esqtvd]

He's definitely getting $30-35M a year, either from us or from some other team. I mean, I'm not the biggest fan of the guy, mostly cause he's a bad defender, but he's scoring 20 a game on 60 TS%, to go with his 8 boards, and he is 2 missed free throws away from a 50/40/90 season. With all of his flaws, he's a hell of player.

If this was 2015 when we had two franchise cornerstones, I'd give A LOT of stuff and mortgage a lot of the future to be able to get him. But it's 2019 and we have a weird mismatch of a team where only a couple of guys or three have a future here. We should be looking to get future picks and prospects, more than maxing 26 year old borderline stars.

Or you take what you can get and hope Shai or Rome becomes the next Devin Booker or whatever.

Of course, the Suns have Devin Booker and they're 11-33...

[Galloisdaman]

He does a heck of a lot right despite some flaws. All players have flaws. With that said 35 mill sounds crazy. I'm not saying he will not get it but I do think that is almost double (not exactly) what Gallo gets and Tobias is not double the player.

[Quake Griffin]

Trade him.

[Ranma]

Trade him.

I don't see the point of trading Tobias when I think he could and would be a great compliment to a Kawhi signing. In fact, I also think Gallo falls into that category right now as well. Harris is obviously not worthy of a full-max contract, but there's still a reasonable chance that we can retain him on a more palatable offer.

Besides, I just think we're better off letting things play out and seeing what our options are. The Clippers are positioned to do well in free agency this summer. Of course, we could totally strike out, but failing to sign Kawhi would be a huge blow regardless given how we're currently set up to succeed primarily through a big free-agent signing.

Unless we're including him in a trade for Anthony Davis, I don't really see the point of trading Tobias right now.

[Quake Griffin]

Trade him.

I don't see the point of trading Tobias when I think he could and would be a great compliment to a Kawhi signing. In fact, I also think Gallo falls into that category right now as well. Harris is obviously not worthy of a full-max contract, but there's still a reasonable chance that we can retain him on a more palatable offer.

Besides, I just think we're better off letting things play out and seeing what our options are. The Clippers are positioned to do well in free agency this summer. Of course, we could totally strike out, but failing to sign Kawhi would be a huge blow regardless given how we're currently set up to succeed primarily through a big free-agent signing.

Unless we're including him in a trade for Anthony Davis, I don't really see the point of trading Tobias right now.

I'm not into the 4-5 year window of Kawhi and Tobias.

Looks like a WCF ceiling to me.

[esqtvd]

I'm starting to think Tobias is shepherding his stats. Stay over 20 ppg, keep the %ages high. Don't take any of the tough shots, only the gimmes.

[Ranma]

I'm not into the 4-5 year window of Kawhi and Tobias.

Looks like a WCF ceiling to me.

I can't say I disagree since I've always viewed Tobias as ideally a 3rd star on a championship contending team, which is why it's important to have eyes on another star more appropriate to fill the 2nd or 1A/1B role.

You One might see in the recent Danilo Gallinari thread that I'm seemingly advocating for Gallo to be such a player when I'm really not. I'm arguing it as a more realistic progression towards eventually getting that 2nd or 1A/1B star.

If Tobias demands the full max, then I'd have to concede that it wasn't worth retaining him.

[Ranma]

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[vincecarter4pres]

The Nets are a likely candidate to throw a boatload of cash at him.

[Galloisdaman]

I do not even think Jimmy Butler is Jimmy Butler. Yes I know that does not make much sense.

[donemilio21]

$14-16M a year over 4 years. Or something like 3 year $50M. He has stats but he is not the guy to carry our team. Some nights you dont even realize he is out there.
Look at what we are paying to Lou and Montrez and look how efficient they are. Harris should not make more than twice as much as Lou.

We should make an offer, but if he can get more money, so be it.

[Galloisdaman]

$14-16M a year over 4 years. Or something like 3 year $50M. He has stats but he is not the guy to carry our team. Some nights you dont even realize he is out there.
Look at what we are paying to Lou and Montrez and look how efficient they are. Harris should not make more than twice as much as Lou.

We should make an offer, but if he can get more money, so be it.

Couple of thoughts.

1. Can't let the main piece of the Blake trade leave for nothing. I think either a new contract or trade makes more sense.

2. Didn't he already turn down 20 mill a year?