The Board Man Cometh!! Kawhi Leonard Signs 3 Year (2+1), $103 Million Deal

[esqtvd]

Necessary Info: KL and PG can opt out Summer 2024. Ballmer could be left empty-handed for the opening of Ballerdome in Fall 2024 if he doesn't deal them first.

PG might disclose his future intentions to the org but Kawhi doesn't even tell the team if he's playing tonight until like 3 PM. Or even that he's not playing the second half of a game in progress.

https://www.si.com/nba/clippers/news/russell-westbrook-reacts-to-kawhi-leonard-resting-second-half-vs-grizzlies

Ballmer is so f***ed. Paid $150 million in luxury tax this year and might end up with nothing but a first-round exit and his d**k in his hand.

Kawhi is the better player, but Paul George is much more predictable on multiple levels. Until missing the last 2 games, Kawhi probably had better trade value too. What is either player worth in a trade now? Less than what we gave up but how much less?

I'd trade one if the other commits to staying, though I doubt Kawhi would ever really commit though.

Unfortunately, trading Kawhi has more than one downside, so that will be huge challange for any party involved with. First is his injury history obviously, second is he has only 1 year left in his contract so there is always a rental risks with his potential to become a diva on where to play. He will be a 12 mounts mercenary for most of the league. The value Spurs get in Raptors trade realisticly a good option, an inferior All-star(Derozan) plus a center in his rookie contract(Poeltl) with future 1st. But Toronto gave those package for a younger, healthier version of Kawhi with the promise of maybe he's sticking with them after one year. So I don't think we can get that type of package. Anything less than that is really worth it?

PG though? I don't think we can get any type of promising young player in return. More likely some smaller 2-3 contract players who don't really move the needle with attached heavily protected 2-3 first rd picks likely in 25th range? Only if we find a good deal for Kawhi I'm OK to send PG as well for that type of return.

Good discussion!

Let's never forget it's all up to Ballmer. And his feelings. And his MONEY. HE started this whole Kawhi thing. HE paid the price to get PG, traded away our--HIS--draft future. Maybe he will never admit he was wrong and he will see it down to its nubs rather than admit he was wrong.

In fact, Headhunter TVD [who made serious dollars leaping to brilliant conclusions about organizations from very little evidence] says that's JUST what happened last night:

"Don't worry, Kawhi. You take care of yourself and do what's right for you. I'm not a big meanie like the Spurs. We'll get 'em next year. AND the year after that, too!"

Read on Twitter

Sets your heart aflutter, don't it? The coach is the last one to know Kawhi ruled himself out of playing the second half and Ty's the one who should get fired.

Donald Sterling's Clippers are starting to look normal. At least he didn't pretend he knew anything about basketball.

[wco81]

I don't recall too many objections, if there were any, to the transactions 5 years ago on the Clippers forum.

People said ah it's tough to give up SGA but the window is now.

I don't think people expected SGA to be an MVP-level player ever in his career. Maybe multiple all-star.

In fact it's only 5 years later that he's really hit his stride. Remember the bubble OKC team, when CP3 was there? SGA wasn't great in those playoffs IIRC.

Credit to him and the player development at OKC. Maybe if that trade wasn't made and Kawhi was willing to see how SGA might develop, he might not be the same player since he'd be playing a supporting role to KL. At OKC, he had free reign.

[esqtvd]

I don't recall too many objections, if there were any, to the transactions 5 years ago on the Clippers forum.

People said ah it's tough to give up SGA but the window is now.

I don't think people expected SGA to be an MVP-level player ever in his career. Maybe multiple all-star.

In fact it's only 5 years later that he's really hit his stride. Remember the bubble OKC team, when CP3 was there? SGA wasn't great in those playoffs IIRC.

Credit to him and the player development at OKC. Maybe if that trade wasn't made and Kawhi was willing to see how SGA might develop, he might not be the same player since he'd be playing a supporting role to KL. At OKC, he had free reign.

Agree completely. Just saying it was Ballmer's call to go all-in. Nobody else's. The question NOW is whether he doubles down yet again.

YEAR FIVE. When the new Ballmerdome opens, YEAR SIX and we probably haven't even won 50 games yet.

[esqtvd]

Necessary Info: KL and PG can opt out Summer 2024. Ballmer could be left empty-handed for the opening of Ballerdome in Fall 2024 if he doesn't deal them first.

PG might disclose his future intentions to the org but Kawhi doesn't even tell the team if he's playing tonight until like 3 PM. Or even that he's not playing the second half of a game in progress.

https://www.si.com/nba/clippers/news/russell-westbrook-reacts-to-kawhi-leonard-resting-second-half-vs-grizzlies

Ballmer is so f***ed. Paid $150 million in luxury tax this year and might end up with nothing but a first-round exit and his d**k in his hand.

Kawhi is the better player, but Paul George is much more predictable on multiple levels. Until missing the last 2 games, Kawhi probably had better trade value too. What is either player worth in a trade now? Less than what we gave up but how much less?

I'd trade one if the other commits to staying, though I doubt Kawhi would ever really commit though.

Unfortunately, trading Kawhi has more than one downside, so that will be huge challange for any party involved with. First is his injury history obviously, second is he has only 1 year left in his contract so there is always a rental risks with his potential to become a diva on where to play. He will be a 12 mounts mercenary for most of the league. The value Spurs get in Raptors trade realisticly a good option, an inferior All-star(Derozan) plus a center in his rookie contract(Poeltl) with future 1st. But Toronto gave those package for a younger, healthier version of Kawhi with the promise of maybe he's sticking with them after one year. So I don't think we can get that type of package. Anything less than that is really worth it?

PG though? I don't think we can get any type of promising young player in return. More likely some smaller 2-3 contract players who don't really move the needle with attached heavily protected 2-3 first rd picks likely in 25th range? Only if we find a good deal for Kawhi I'm OK to send PG as well for that type of return.

To cut to the chase--IF healthy, adding Kawhi could put many playoff teams over the top. If we're taking offers on Kawhi next February, the offers will be rich. PG not as much, but again, if healthy he could put several teams over the top as well. Ballmer will have options.

Durant is sick, and the Suns are now 3rd favorites behind only Milwaukee and the Celts.

[Captain Ballmer]

Kawhi is the better player, but Paul George is much more predictable on multiple levels. Until missing the last 2 games, Kawhi probably had better trade value too. What is either player worth in a trade now? Less than what we gave up but how much less?

I'd trade one if the other commits to staying, though I doubt Kawhi would ever really commit though.

Unfortunately, trading Kawhi has more than one downside, so that will be huge challange for any party involved with. First is his injury history obviously, second is he has only 1 year left in his contract so there is always a rental risks with his potential to become a diva on where to play. He will be a 12 mounts mercenary for most of the league. The value Spurs get in Raptors trade realisticly a good option, an inferior All-star(Derozan) plus a center in his rookie contract(Poeltl) with future 1st. But Toronto gave those package for a younger, healthier version of Kawhi with the promise of maybe he's sticking with them after one year. So I don't think we can get that type of package. Anything less than that is really worth it?

PG though? I don't think we can get any type of promising young player in return. More likely some smaller 2-3 contract players who don't really move the needle with attached heavily protected 2-3 first rd picks likely in 25th range? Only if we find a good deal for Kawhi I'm OK to send PG as well for that type of return.

Good discussion!

Let's never forget it's all up to Ballmer. And his feelings. And his MONEY. HE started this whole Kawhi thing. HE paid the price to get PG, traded away our--HIS--draft future. Maybe he will never admit he was wrong and he will see it down to its nubs rather than admit he was wrong.

In fact, Headhunter TVD [who made serious dollars leaping to brilliant conclusions about organizations from very little evidence] says that's JUST what happened last night:

"Don't worry, Kawhi. You take care of yourself and do what's right for you. I'm not a big meanie like the Spurs. We'll get 'em next year. AND the year after that, too!"

Read on Twitter

Sets your heart aflutter, don't it? The coach is the last one to know Kawhi ruled himself out of playing the second half and Ty's the one who should get fired.

Donald Sterling's Clippers are starting to look normal. At least he didn't pretend he knew anything about basketball.

You are so vindictive towards Ballmer. Unnecessary.

I'm all onboard if he wants to reset with 213 era(unless there is insulting offers only, he should trade both tbh). But if he willing to go for another year, at least I hope he builds a team that can play(win) without Kawhi for most of the season.

Like Toronto, We never get a below average center because of small ball addictions. For that we let Hartenstein go, kept Covington though he wasn't even in the rotation for back up 5. We never address Playmaking issues with 213 will be healthy in mind. They haven't healthy much at all and we put to many loads on guards with narrow shoulders.

We lost to many winnable regular season games with the way we build this roster and hoped 213 take care of the rest. Last season we were eliminated during play-in with the 2nd most highest salary ever assembled team. This season we hardly make it into top 6 thanks to Kawhi playing almost 40 mpg last month of the season, even playing last couple of btb that probably leads to weakened knees bumped in 1st playoff game etc.

Get a more skilled big, get playmakers. no more reclamation projects like Reggie, Batum, Wall, Bledsoe, Winslow.

[madmaxmedia]

Kawhi is the better player, but Paul George is much more predictable on multiple levels. Until missing the last 2 games, Kawhi probably had better trade value too. What is either player worth in a trade now? Less than what we gave up but how much less?

I'd trade one if the other commits to staying, though I doubt Kawhi would ever really commit though.

Unfortunately, trading Kawhi has more than one downside, so that will be huge challange for any party involved with. First is his injury history obviously, second is he has only 1 year left in his contract so there is always a rental risks with his potential to become a diva on where to play. He will be a 12 mounts mercenary for most of the league. The value Spurs get in Raptors trade realisticly a good option, an inferior All-star(Derozan) plus a center in his rookie contract(Poeltl) with future 1st. But Toronto gave those package for a younger, healthier version of Kawhi with the promise of maybe he's sticking with them after one year. So I don't think we can get that type of package. Anything less than that is really worth it?

PG though? I don't think we can get any type of promising young player in return. More likely some smaller 2-3 contract players who don't really move the needle with attached heavily protected 2-3 first rd picks likely in 25th range? Only if we find a good deal for Kawhi I'm OK to send PG as well for that type of return.

To cut to the chase--IF healthy, adding Kawhi could put many playoff teams over the top. If we're taking offers on Kawhi next February, the offers will be rich. PG not as much, but again, if healthy he could put several teams over the top as well. Ballmer will have options.

Durant is sick, and the Suns are now 3rd favorites behind only Milwaukee and the Celts.

Yes, this is exactly why I'm thinking of a possible scenario where we trade Kawhi if offers are good, and then have a decent team left led by Paul George as a sort of compromise between squeezing every last drop out of this squad before bottoming out, and doing a complete teardown now.

[og15]

Kawhi is the better player, but Paul George is much more predictable on multiple levels. Until missing the last 2 games, Kawhi probably had better trade value too. What is either player worth in a trade now? Less than what we gave up but how much less?

I'd trade one if the other commits to staying, though I doubt Kawhi would ever really commit though.

Unfortunately, trading Kawhi has more than one downside, so that will be huge challange for any party involved with. First is his injury history obviously, second is he has only 1 year left in his contract so there is always a rental risks with his potential to become a diva on where to play. He will be a 12 mounts mercenary for most of the league. The value Spurs get in Raptors trade realisticly a good option, an inferior All-star(Derozan) plus a center in his rookie contract(Poeltl) with future 1st. But Toronto gave those package for a younger, healthier version of Kawhi with the promise of maybe he's sticking with them after one year. So I don't think we can get that type of package. Anything less than that is really worth it?

PG though? I don't think we can get any type of promising young player in return. More likely some smaller 2-3 contract players who don't really move the needle with attached heavily protected 2-3 first rd picks likely in 25th range? Only if we find a good deal for Kawhi I'm OK to send PG as well for that type of return.

Good discussion!

Let's never forget it's all up to Ballmer. And his feelings. And his MONEY. HE started this whole Kawhi thing. HE paid the price to get PG, traded away our--HIS--draft future. Maybe he will never admit he was wrong and he will see it down to its nubs rather than admit he was wrong.

In fact, Headhunter TVD [who made serious dollars leaping to brilliant conclusions about organizations from very little evidence] says that's JUST what happened last night:

"Don't worry, Kawhi. You take care of yourself and do what's right for you. I'm not a big meanie like the Spurs. We'll get 'em next year. AND the year after that, too!"

Read on Twitter

Sets your heart aflutter, don't it? The coach is the last one to know Kawhi ruled himself out of playing the second half and Ty's the one who should get fired.

Donald Sterling's Clippers are starting to look normal. At least he didn't pretend he knew anything about basketball.

Ballmer has followed the advice of the people he put in the basketball positions, not sure where you're getting this pretending he knows about basketball from. His role is and continues to be to decide whether he wants to commit his money and assets to the recommendations they give him.

Sterling had the team trade the pick that became Kyrie (it was expected top 10) along with Baron Davis because he didn't like Baron. You don't remember the Sterling heckling of Davis? Why are you in the game? Etc? Sterling constantly had the team making bad basketball decisions for the sake of saving money. Please don't let your dissappointment about the team and the situation with injuries lead to start making wild claims.

[og15]

Unfortunately, trading Kawhi has more than one downside, so that will be huge challange for any party involved with. First is his injury history obviously, second is he has only 1 year left in his contract so there is always a rental risks with his potential to become a diva on where to play. He will be a 12 mounts mercenary for most of the league. The value Spurs get in Raptors trade realisticly a good option, an inferior All-star(Derozan) plus a center in his rookie contract(Poeltl) with future 1st. But Toronto gave those package for a younger, healthier version of Kawhi with the promise of maybe he's sticking with them after one year. So I don't think we can get that type of package. Anything less than that is really worth it?

PG though? I don't think we can get any type of promising young player in return. More likely some smaller 2-3 contract players who don't really move the needle with attached heavily protected 2-3 first rd picks likely in 25th range? Only if we find a good deal for Kawhi I'm OK to send PG as well for that type of return.

Good discussion!

Let's never forget it's all up to Ballmer. And his feelings. And his MONEY. HE started this whole Kawhi thing. HE paid the price to get PG, traded away our--HIS--draft future. Maybe he will never admit he was wrong and he will see it down to its nubs rather than admit he was wrong.

In fact, Headhunter TVD [who made serious dollars leaping to brilliant conclusions about organizations from very little evidence] says that's JUST what happened last night:

"Don't worry, Kawhi. You take care of yourself and do what's right for you. I'm not a big meanie like the Spurs. We'll get 'em next year. AND the year after that, too!"

Read on Twitter

Sets your heart aflutter, don't it? The coach is the last one to know Kawhi ruled himself out of playing the second half and Ty's the one who should get fired.

Donald Sterling's Clippers are starting to look normal. At least he didn't pretend he knew anything about basketball.

You are so vindictive towards Ballmer. Unnecessary.

I'm all onboard if he wants to reset with 213 era(unless there is insulting offers only, he should trade both tbh). But if he willing to go for another year, at least I hope he builds a team that can play(win) without Kawhi for most of the season.

Like Toronto, We never get a below average center because of small ball addictions. For that we let Hartenstein go, kept Covington though he wasn't even in the rotation for back up 5. We never address Playmaking issues with 213 will be healthy in mind. They haven't healthy much at all and we put to many loads on guards with narrow shoulders.

We lost to many winnable regular season games with the way we build this roster and hoped 213 take care of the rest. Last season we were eliminated during play-in with the 2nd most highest salary ever assembled team. This season we hardly make it into top 6 thanks to Kawhi playing almost 40 mpg last month of the season, even playing last couple of btb that probably leads to weakened knees bumped in 1st playoff game etc.

Get a more skilled big, get playmakers. no more reclamation projects like Reggie, Batum, Wall, Bledsoe, Winslow.

Role players are role players. Better ones are better, but the reality is that we knew what we were getting with Kawhi but we took the risk.

We expected to be getting a far more durable player with Paul George and we got something totally different. The good thing about George is that theoretically he is still young enough to be able to have multiple healthy seasons in the future, but his Clippers seasons have been a health disaster.

In the end, of course we always want better and better role and supporting players, but this league is won by stars. If the stars can't play, it just is what it is.

[esqtvd]

Unfortunately, trading Kawhi has more than one downside, so that will be huge challange for any party involved with. First is his injury history obviously, second is he has only 1 year left in his contract so there is always a rental risks with his potential to become a diva on where to play. He will be a 12 mounts mercenary for most of the league. The value Spurs get in Raptors trade realisticly a good option, an inferior All-star(Derozan) plus a center in his rookie contract(Poeltl) with future 1st. But Toronto gave those package for a younger, healthier version of Kawhi with the promise of maybe he's sticking with them after one year. So I don't think we can get that type of package. Anything less than that is really worth it?

PG though? I don't think we can get any type of promising young player in return. More likely some smaller 2-3 contract players who don't really move the needle with attached heavily protected 2-3 first rd picks likely in 25th range? Only if we find a good deal for Kawhi I'm OK to send PG as well for that type of return.

Good discussion!

Let's never forget it's all up to Ballmer. And his feelings. And his MONEY. HE started this whole Kawhi thing. HE paid the price to get PG, traded away our--HIS--draft future. Maybe he will never admit he was wrong and he will see it down to its nubs rather than admit he was wrong.

In fact, Headhunter TVD [who made serious dollars leaping to brilliant conclusions about organizations from very little evidence] says that's JUST what happened last night:

"Don't worry, Kawhi. You take care of yourself and do what's right for you. I'm not a big meanie like the Spurs. We'll get 'em next year. AND the year after that, too!"

Read on Twitter

Sets your heart aflutter, don't it? The coach is the last one to know Kawhi ruled himself out of playing the second half and Ty's the one who should get fired.

Donald Sterling's Clippers are starting to look normal. At least he didn't pretend he knew anything about basketball.

Ballmer has followed the advice of the people he put in the basketball positions, not sure where you're getting this pretending he knows about basketball from. His role is and continues to be to decide whether he wants to commit his money and assets to the recommendations they give him.

Sterling had the team trade the pick that became Kyrie (it was expected top 10) along with Baron Davis because he didn't like Baron. You don't remember the Sterling heckling of Davis? Why are you in the game? Etc? Sterling constantly had the team making bad basketball decisions for the sake of saving money. Please don't let your dissappointment about the team and the situation with injuries lead to start making wild claims.

Obviously then you forget that by the end of the Sterling era, he had built a very nice practice facility and either paid or was willing to pay some luxury tax! He started to enjoy having a real team and not a chop shop.

But he was still a hands-off owner. Ballmer is VERY hands on. Literally.

Read on Twitter

Ballmer may have not decided to keep Covington over Hartenstein [probably THE key roster mistake this season] but the buck stops with him. 213 is HIS baby, and it's his baby moving forward about the fate of the 213 Era, which on the whole has NOT been enjoyable. We had a lucky run into the WCF but otherwise we haven't even put together a 50-win season.

[The last non-50 game winner to win an NBA championship was the 1995 Houston Rockets; however they were repeating from the 58-win title team the year before. Continuity counts.]

No, I'm sure not worshipping at the Ballmer altar, sorry. He tried to buy a championship with a 'damn the torpedoes' open wallet and it appears to have failed. I think we have mostly a good culture despite the two guys making most of the money, and I credit the coach more than the owner. Except for the admittedly mysterious benching of RoCo, everybody else has got their full shot even when they've struggled.

[esqtvd]

Unfortunately, trading Kawhi has more than one downside, so that will be huge challange for any party involved with. First is his injury history obviously, second is he has only 1 year left in his contract so there is always a rental risks with his potential to become a diva on where to play. He will be a 12 mounts mercenary for most of the league. The value Spurs get in Raptors trade realisticly a good option, an inferior All-star(Derozan) plus a center in his rookie contract(Poeltl) with future 1st. But Toronto gave those package for a younger, healthier version of Kawhi with the promise of maybe he's sticking with them after one year. So I don't think we can get that type of package. Anything less than that is really worth it?

PG though? I don't think we can get any type of promising young player in return. More likely some smaller 2-3 contract players who don't really move the needle with attached heavily protected 2-3 first rd picks likely in 25th range? Only if we find a good deal for Kawhi I'm OK to send PG as well for that type of return.

To cut to the chase--IF healthy, adding Kawhi could put many playoff teams over the top. If we're taking offers on Kawhi next February, the offers will be rich. PG not as much, but again, if healthy he could put several teams over the top as well. Ballmer will have options.

Durant is sick, and the Suns are now 3rd favorites behind only Milwaukee and the Celts.

Yes, this is exactly why I'm thinking of a possible scenario where we trade Kawhi if offers are good, and then have a decent team left led by Paul George as a sort of compromise between squeezing every last drop out of this squad before bottoming out, and doing a complete teardown now.

If some of the commenters are correct that Kawhi and PG want to be Clippers for life, that certainly changes the calculus. But they need to tell Ballmer that in advance of the season or at least before the trade deadline. I'm not confident Kawhi will do that. Every decision and contract he's made to date leaves an escape hatch.

Not that I blame him. But that's his style, to always keep his options open. Which leaves Ballmer dangling about the future direction of his franchise. Staying the course or backing up the truck are two viable options, and I think it's a coin flip as to which is better. You point out a third way, or a halfway.

You put a healthy Kawhi right now on any of a half-dozen teams and you've got a chip. There would be offers, damned good ones.

[madmaxmedia]

Role players are role players. Better ones are better, but the reality is that we knew what we were getting with Kawhi but we took the risk.

We expected to be getting a far more durable player with Paul George and we got something totally different. The good thing about George is that theoretically he is still young enough to be able to have multiple healthy seasons in the future, but his Clippers seasons have been a health disaster.

In the end, of course we want better role and supporting players, but this league is won by stars. If the stars can play, it just is what it is.

Games played has been an absolute disaster with both, it's really a shame as both players have IMO largely been as good as advertised on the court. So ironic that the one year both players were healthy when the final game of the year was lost was the bubble playoffs...

[Captain Ballmer]

Good discussion!

Let's never forget it's all up to Ballmer. And his feelings. And his MONEY. HE started this whole Kawhi thing. HE paid the price to get PG, traded away our--HIS--draft future. Maybe he will never admit he was wrong and he will see it down to its nubs rather than admit he was wrong.

In fact, Headhunter TVD [who made serious dollars leaping to brilliant conclusions about organizations from very little evidence] says that's JUST what happened last night:

Read on Twitter

Sets your heart aflutter, don't it? The coach is the last one to know Kawhi ruled himself out of playing the second half and Ty's the one who should get fired.

Donald Sterling's Clippers are starting to look normal. At least he didn't pretend he knew anything about basketball.

You are so vindictive towards Ballmer. Unnecessary.

I'm all onboard if he wants to reset with 213 era(unless there is insulting offers only, he should trade both tbh). But if he willing to go for another year, at least I hope he builds a team that can play(win) without Kawhi for most of the season.

Like Toronto, We never get a below average center because of small ball addictions. For that we let Hartenstein go, kept Covington though he wasn't even in the rotation for back up 5. We never address Playmaking issues with 213 will be healthy in mind. They haven't healthy much at all and we put to many loads on guards with narrow shoulders.

We lost to many winnable regular season games with the way we build this roster and hoped 213 take care of the rest. Last season we were eliminated during play-in with the 2nd most highest salary ever assembled team. This season we hardly make it into top 6 thanks to Kawhi playing almost 40 mpg last month of the season, even playing last couple of btb that probably leads to weakened knees bumped in 1st playoff game etc.

Get a more skilled big, get playmakers. no more reclamation projects like Reggie, Batum, Wall, Bledsoe, Winslow.

Role players are role players. Better ones are better, but the reality is that we knew what we were getting with Kawhi but we took the risk.

We expected to be getting a far more durable player with Paul George and we got something totally different. The good thing about George is that theoretically he is still young enough to be able to have multiple healthy seasons in the future, but his Clippers seasons have been a health disaster.

In the end, of course we always want better and better role and supporting players, but this league is won by stars. If the stars can't play, it just is what it is.

In playoffs yes, we need stars healthy. But for regular season you don't need full star power to win games. You just need decent role players that won't cost you game. I mean Lakers right now up 3 to 1 big thanks to Austin Reaves, Vanderbilt and Hachimura. They save their season when they found decent role players. How many times we witnessed our role players just utterly sucked and cost us games this season?

We need a mentality change when we build a roster if 213 era continues. we played with 200 million USD payroll, exclude 213, there is still 120 million USD left. There are quite a lot of teams put serious product with that much payroll. Just get players who can help you in the regular season, get you comfortable to 50 win without worrying play-in, without leaning on Kawhi's health. Than hope for the best in April-May. Kawhi win it with Spurs like this. Did it with Raptors like this.

We have to realize our stars are not LBJ, Giannis, Jokic, Doncic level of heliolistic players. They can't carry you full season. For that reason alone Westbrook should be in the team and skilled bigs who can strecth to floor to accompany them for next season. Bye Zu, Bye Batum, Bye Morris, Bye Gordon, Bye Preston.

[Roscoe Sheed]

Good discussion!

Let's never forget it's all up to Ballmer. And his feelings. And his MONEY. HE started this whole Kawhi thing. HE paid the price to get PG, traded away our--HIS--draft future. Maybe he will never admit he was wrong and he will see it down to its nubs rather than admit he was wrong.

In fact, Headhunter TVD [who made serious dollars leaping to brilliant conclusions about organizations from very little evidence] says that's JUST what happened last night:

Read on Twitter

Sets your heart aflutter, don't it? The coach is the last one to know Kawhi ruled himself out of playing the second half and Ty's the one who should get fired.

Donald Sterling's Clippers are starting to look normal. At least he didn't pretend he knew anything about basketball.

Ballmer has followed the advice of the people he put in the basketball positions, not sure where you're getting this pretending he knows about basketball from. His role is and continues to be to decide whether he wants to commit his money and assets to the recommendations they give him.

Sterling had the team trade the pick that became Kyrie (it was expected top 10) along with Baron Davis because he didn't like Baron. You don't remember the Sterling heckling of Davis? Why are you in the game? Etc? Sterling constantly had the team making bad basketball decisions for the sake of saving money. Please don't let your dissappointment about the team and the situation with injuries lead to start making wild claims.

Obviously then you forget that by the end of the Sterling era, he had built a very nice practice facility and either paid or was willing to pay some luxury tax! He started to enjoy having a real team and not a chop shop.

But he was still a hands-off owner. Ballmer is VERY hands on. Literally.

Read on Twitter

Ballmer may have not decided to keep Covington over Hartenstein [probably THE key roster mistake this season] but the buck stops with him. 213 is HIS baby, and it's his baby moving forward about the fate of the 213 Era, which on the whole has NOT been enjoyable. We had a lucky run into the WCF but otherwise we haven't even put together a 50-win season.

[The last non-50 game winner to win an NBA championship was the 1995 Houston Rockets; however they were repeating from the 58-win title team the year before. Continuity counts.]

No, I'm sure not worshipping at the Ballmer altar, sorry. He tried to buy a championship with a 'damn the torpedoes' open wallet and it appears to have failed. I think we have mostly a good culture despite the two guys making most of the money, and I credit the coach more than the owner. Except for the admittedly mysterious benching of RoCo, everybody else has got their full shot even when they've struggled.

winning % wise- they would have won more than 50 games twice but the 19-20 and 20-21 seasons were shortened

[Roscoe Sheed]

You are so vindictive towards Ballmer. Unnecessary.

I'm all onboard if he wants to reset with 213 era(unless there is insulting offers only, he should trade both tbh). But if he willing to go for another year, at least I hope he builds a team that can play(win) without Kawhi for most of the season.

Like Toronto, We never get a below average center because of small ball addictions. For that we let Hartenstein go, kept Covington though he wasn't even in the rotation for back up 5. We never address Playmaking issues with 213 will be healthy in mind. They haven't healthy much at all and we put to many loads on guards with narrow shoulders.

We lost to many winnable regular season games with the way we build this roster and hoped 213 take care of the rest. Last season we were eliminated during play-in with the 2nd most highest salary ever assembled team. This season we hardly make it into top 6 thanks to Kawhi playing almost 40 mpg last month of the season, even playing last couple of btb that probably leads to weakened knees bumped in 1st playoff game etc.

Get a more skilled big, get playmakers. no more reclamation projects like Reggie, Batum, Wall, Bledsoe, Winslow.

Role players are role players. Better ones are better, but the reality is that we knew what we were getting with Kawhi but we took the risk.

We expected to be getting a far more durable player with Paul George and we got something totally different. The good thing about George is that theoretically he is still young enough to be able to have multiple healthy seasons in the future, but his Clippers seasons have been a health disaster.

In the end, of course we always want better and better role and supporting players, but this league is won by stars. If the stars can't play, it just is what it is.

In playoffs yes, we need stars healthy. But for regular season you don't need full star power to win games. You just need decent role players that won't cost you game. I mean Lakers right now up 3 to 1 big thanks to Austin Reaves, Vanderbilt and Hachimura. They save their season when they found decent role players. How many times we witnessed our role players just utterly sucked and cost us games this season?

We need a mentality change when we build a roster if 213 era continues. we played with 200 million USD payroll, exclude 213, there is still 120 million USD left. There are quite a lot of teams put serious product with that much payroll. Just get players who can help you in the regular season, get you comfortable to 50 win without worrying play-in, without leaning on Kawhi's health. Than hope for the best in April-May. Kawhi win it with Spurs like this. Did it with Raptors like this.

We have to realize our stars are not LBJ, Giannis, Jokic, Doncic level of heliolistic players. They can't carry you full season. For that reason alone Westbrook should be in the team and skilled bigs who can strecth to floor to accompany them for next season. Bye Zu, Bye Batum, Bye Morris, Bye Gordon, Bye Preston.

what's wrong with Gordon? I think he has played fairly well since rejoining the Clippers

[Captain Ballmer]

Role players are role players. Better ones are better, but the reality is that we knew what we were getting with Kawhi but we took the risk.

We expected to be getting a far more durable player with Paul George and we got something totally different. The good thing about George is that theoretically he is still young enough to be able to have multiple healthy seasons in the future, but his Clippers seasons have been a health disaster.

In the end, of course we always want better and better role and supporting players, but this league is won by stars. If the stars can't play, it just is what it is.

In playoffs yes, we need stars healthy. But for regular season you don't need full star power to win games. You just need decent role players that won't cost you game. I mean Lakers right now up 3 to 1 big thanks to Austin Reaves, Vanderbilt and Hachimura. They save their season when they found decent role players. How many times we witnessed our role players just utterly sucked and cost us games this season?

We need a mentality change when we build a roster if 213 era continues. we played with 200 million USD payroll, exclude 213, there is still 120 million USD left. There are quite a lot of teams put serious product with that much payroll. Just get players who can help you in the regular season, get you comfortable to 50 win without worrying play-in, without leaning on Kawhi's health. Than hope for the best in April-May. Kawhi win it with Spurs like this. Did it with Raptors like this.

We have to realize our stars are not LBJ, Giannis, Jokic, Doncic level of heliolistic players. They can't carry you full season. For that reason alone Westbrook should be in the team and skilled bigs who can strecth to floor to accompany them for next season. Bye Zu, Bye Batum, Bye Morris, Bye Gordon, Bye Preston.

what's wrong with Gordon? I think he has played fairly well since rejoining the Clippers

He's contract has amazing value for teams looking to shred some salary, more value than his performance. So If we going to get a decent pieces we have to deal him to a team to get us a pick with dead salary or usefull player on a longer contract.

[Clemenza]

Imo if we don't win tonight and our season is over how does the team sell load management to the fans next season and possibly the season after that? It's only going to get worse from here with Kawhi's knees and health issues going forward. PG too. Are they willing to open up the new arena with $80 plus million in street clothes for half of our home games? Keeping old washed players in front of the youth cause they fit the stars better but look absolutely horrible when the stars don't play which is the majority of the time. At some point in time the front office has to face reality and ask themselves do they want to move forward as a franchise. With some fans having Kawhi and PG on the team is like having the hot girlfriend or trophy wife. Sexy in theory and great on paper but it's all appearance and flash and not really building anything of significance. If we flame out I'd see who or what he could get for them. Their value might be low but we desperately need to get from under all this load management. It's killing the team

[Akklaim1]

I honestly only see Mann as the only current Clipper to be on the team once the team moves to the 310. Maybe possibly PG because dude seems to be proud to represent the Clips even in street clothes.

[MartinToVaught]

Are they willing to open up the new arena with $80 plus million in street clothes for half of our home games?

Said this last week, but attendance was already pretty dismal this year. Kawhi and PG aren't putting butts in seats for regular season games anymore when they never actually play. At this point, it's even going to be hard to sell tickets for the playoffs. If Ballmer and the FO don't trade these guys while they still have any value because they're worried about ticket sales at Intuit two years from now, they are making a huge mistake. Just imagine how bad this situation is going to be in two years. We'll have two Orlando Grant Hills warming the bench all season and a new arena that sounds more like a library.

[madmaxmedia]

If we do trade 1 or both of 213, we definitely need Russ back as a innings eater to get us through the season. We have no one else that can approach his production level, even if he's not the most efficient player. I'd like to think he wants to come back too.

[Cyclips]

I honestly only see Mann as the only current Clipper to be on the team once the team moves to the 310. Maybe possibly PG because dude seems to be proud to represent the Clips even in street clothes.

I'd hope Powell will be around for the length of his contract