Trade Idea Thread II

[og15]

Oh wow, yea, I wasn't thinking of the draft positions properly, so yea, still need another team, and that isn't likely to happen.

Yea, Philly has little reason to get rid of such a nice contract.

[QRich3]

Yeah I'm rooting hard for the Bulls every game, jumping from the 56th to the 33rd pick would be a lot of value. Either for the prospect we can take there, or to trade the pick along with our 1st rounder and Lance's expiring on draft day, suddenly we'd have enough assets to trade for the competent rotation player we've been looking for all over this thread. But that's still a big if.

[nickhx2]

does jennings make any sense for this team?

kinda thinking they could use some SG help and a lance/jennings swap works well, since we seem to have given up on stephenson, and it'd be nice to have a scoring threat from the PG position.

i don't know their cap situation either but maybe lance/jamal for jennings/pick to give us an extra roster slot, as we'd want to have something open for a midseason buyout. at the same time i'm not sure they want to part with him since they probably can't trust steve blake to run their bench.

[Quake Griffin]

Yeah I'm rooting hard for the Bulls every game, jumping from the 56th to the 33rd pick would be a lot of value. Either for the prospect we can take there, or to trade the pick along with our 1st rounder and Lance's expiring on draft day, suddenly we'd have enough assets to trade for the competent rotation player we've been looking for all over this thread. But that's still a big if.

So we CAN trade that pick on draft day?

[og15]

Yea, you can't trade consecutive picks during the season, but on draft day you can trade the pick.

nickhx, do you know when Jodie Meeks is scheduled to return for them? KCP is a pretty excellent two way player at SG for them, so if Meeks gets healthy, I don't think they would want a SG.

If the Lakers are interested in trading Brandon Bass for a 2nd round pick for example, Clippers could do a 3 way where Jamal goes somewhere, Bass comes to Clippers and Lakers get the pick, so for them it really is just a salary dump.

Clippers trade: Lance Stephenson, Jamal Crawford, 2nd round pick
Clippers get: Brandan Wright, Gerald Henderson

Lakers Trade: Brandon Bass
Lakers Get: Clippers 2nd, Grizzlies 2nd

Grizzlies Trade: Courtney Lee, Brandan Wright
Grizzlies Get: Jamal Crawford, Brandon Bass

Portland Trades: Gerald Henderson
Portland Gets: Lance Stephenson, Courtney Lee

Not sure how much Memphis likes it, and Portland would likely want a pick, though the real world savings of being closer to the salary floor is there for them.

[nickhx2]

yeah i wasn't sure on meeks's return timeline. i hadn't heard anything recently but having him back would definitely put a damper on any potential trades.

[nickhx2]

just checked espn and as far as i can tell, when he got the surgery two months ago his estimated recovery was supposed to have been between 3-4 months. there's no peep other than he's gotten out of his walking boot, which means progress but doesn't mean a whole lot else.

another thing on espn, even though it's dated in november, says that it's 3-4 months minimum and he could be potentially out for much longer. if they decide his progress is too slow i could see them maybe wanting some extra SG depth to push in the playoffs. that said, i don't know how much they value jennings's PG play vs having actual SG depth.

[Ranma]

I've said my previous proposal to acquire Eric Gordon was unrealistic wishful thinking and that may still hold true, but with both the Pelicans and Nets currently second-to-last in their respective conferences and residing in the bottom four in the overall standings, things seem to be more open to acquiring both Gordon and Joe Johnson. This scenario, of course, hinges on Johnson eventually being bought out in Brooklyn.

I figured that Stephenson would not appeal to the Pelicans before the season started because they were thought to be contenders, but they're currently a long way from that as a highly positioned lottery team. It's unlikely they'll re-sign Gordon so maybe getting a bunch of new bodies to see what sticks might shake things up. Stephenson's contract with the team option probably holds more appeal than the player himself, but he does provide similar things to what Tyreke Evans gives them, good or bad. Crawford would add more scoring punch off their bench albeit with bad defense, but they'd also get a young asset in Wilcox to add to their rebuild with a lottery pick.

Josh Smith could be included in the deal if the Pelicans are so inclined but the Clippers would have to take another player back since New Orleans only has one open roster spot. The Clippers would get back old friend Gordon albeit in a more weathered state, plus, Doc would also get old favorite Kendrick Perkins. Perkins wouldn't be counted on for much in the way of contribution but he'd be the 3rd string center on the roster.

With regard to Johnson, the Nets would have to negotiate a buyout with him for us to sign him to a minimum vet deal and we'd have to compete with other teams for his services. On top of that, if trading for Gordon is contingent upon getting Johnson, it wouldn't work because the Nets are unlikely to buy him out until after the trade deadline.

I'm under no illusion that both Gordon and Johnson are the players they once were. Both have fallen off defensively and their offense has been increasingly inefficient. Still, I'm banking on a bit of rejuvenation with them coming here and the Clippers wouldn't really be losing anything by shipping off players Doc currently doesn't use (and purportedly actively shopping) along with Crawford, who's still an overall net negative presence even if he has been making improvements lately.

The Nets have no incentive to tank since the Celtics own the rights to their 2016 first-rounder, but New Orleans would still preserve their lottery chances while adding more skilled players to the roster for this season and the rights to a young player for further development. Both teams would likely hold out at least until the trade deadline before waving the white flag on their respective seasons.

If we were to somehow pull this off, the roster would be set up as follows:

Starting Lineup

• PF - Griffin
• SF - J. Johnson
• C - Jordan
• SG - Redick
• PG - Paul

Second Unit

• PF - Pierce
• SF - W. Johnson
• C - Aldrich
• SG - Gordon
• PG - Rivers

Reserves

• Prigioni
• Mbah a Moute
• Smith (assuming not traded)
• Perkins
• Dawson

[Wammy Giveaway]

This is just a hypothetical I want to ask, Ranma, but let's pretend more players get traded. For example, let's assume Doc has no choice but to break up the Big 3 in order to get past the 2nd round hurdle - and to save his job.

As you know, Danny LeRoux wrote the article that suggested the Clippers should trade Chris Paul. Clips Nation writer Taylor Smith (not Taylor Swift) proposed a counter-article in that if the Clippers are going to trade anybody, it should be DeAndre Jordan.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/TaylorBojangles/status/684919535879716864[/tweet]

If Doc pulls an about face by trading DeAndre, chances are he'll want a superstar in return. Either a superstar center to replace Jordan's production, or a superstar small forward to fix the problems at the 3 spot. Candidates for small forwards are far and few between - the couplet of Kevin Durant and Paul George. The only superstar center in the league is Dwight Howard. There's a remote possibility that Carmelo Anthony might even be in the mix as well, and possibly DeMar DeRozan (The Starters discussed on The Drop Podcast today that Masai Ujiri might consider moving in a different direction just because DeRozan is an inconsistent 3-point shooter). And if Joe Johnson gets bought out and wants to come to the Clippers, Doc may have to do some additional tinkering such as removing J.J. Redick from the equation. Or worse, give up his son Austin.

For now, I'm going to predict that Lance Stephenson, Josh Smith, C.J. Wilcox, Branden Dawson, Jamal Crawford and DeAndre Jordan are the chips. Let's look at each player:

1. Kevin Durant - Second best player in the world next to LeBron James. Wizards want him. Lakers want him. Warriors want him - and Clippers will do anything to prevent their arch nemesis from continuing their dynasty. Thunder might counter by forcing Griffin into the bargain table, as Griffin's birthplace is OKC. One of three Team USA teammates Chris Paul has played with.

2. Carmelo Anthony - One of the best NBA scorers in history. Only conference finals appearance was with a superstar point guard in Chauncey Billups. Talks of him wanting out of New York have all been rumors, and may be put to rest if the Knicks make the playoffs. Currently assisting rookie Kristaps Porzingis in his development. Second teammate of Team USA to play with Chris Paul.

3. Paul George - New face of the Pacers franchise. Knows Lance Stephenson, and might be the only one who can help the Clippers on how to use him. Has made the conference finals. George might also trigger a Roy Hibbert buyout on the Lakers part (or via 76ers trade and pending buyout). Will be the ultimate test of integrity and ego management as Doc has a reported personal grudge against George.

4. Dwight Howard - The only superstar center who can at least mimic - not match - DeAndre's production. Has made one Finals appearance. Talking point is the city of Houston, DeAndre's birthplace. Rockets also possess Trevor Ariza, a small forward Chris Paul has played with before in his days as a Hornet. Like with George and Stephenson, Howard may be the key to get Smith back on track. To add insult to injury, Howard has defeated Doc's teams twice, one of which is the 3-1 collapse. A trade for Howard forces Smith and Prigioni (and Redick) to stay put. The last guy to have played with Chris Paul in Team USA.

Here's my challenge to you, Ranma. If a trade of DeAndre were to happen, what would be the appropriate package for each said player? What's the strength and weaknesses? How would each player affect the arrival of Joe Johnson as a buyout candidate in any way?

[og15]

If you trade DJ, those aren't the players you'll be expected to get back, except maybe Dwight.

How can you expect to get a superstar SF back when DJ is not a superstar?

You would have to think more in terms of a guy like Batum for example along with some other moving players, or at C something less exciting like a Chandler and others package.

If Denver needed a C, a guy like Gallinari. At best you could maybe get Horford, but that's not too likely.

[wasteh202]

I'll keep this simple.

I like CP. But his is commanding too much salary going forward, and he is subject to sitting out with injury, and sometimes the numbers are not all that. He is on the downside of his career.

Trade CP to Boston for Isiah Thomas and David Lee. If you need to add another player, then add anybody except Blake, DeAndre or JJ. You get a young quality PG and another quality PF/C that can beef up the reserve squad.

[nickhx2]

no

[nickhx2]

i tried to keep it simple in response btw

[wasteh202]

I wish the Clips never traded Darren Collison. I felt that Darren performed at the PG just as well as CP in CP's absence, at a third of the pay. Actually DC was quicker and able to drive better. Isiah is even better in my view. David Lee could even play with the starters. Either way a win win in my view. You gotta give up something to get better, in my view... let CP3 go.

[Ranma]

This is just a hypothetical I want to ask, Ranma, but let's pretend more players get traded. For example, let's assume Doc has no choice but to break up the Big 3 in order to get past the 2nd round hurdle - and to save his job.
...

[tweet]https://twitter.com/TaylorBojangles/status/684919535879716864[/tweet]
...

Here's my challenge to you, Ranma. If a trade of DeAndre were to happen, what would be the appropriate package for each said player? What's the strength and weaknesses? How would each player affect the arrival of Joe Johnson as a buyout candidate in any way?

I've seen the Taylor Smith piece, but haven't read it. I actually agree with his premise that it would make much more sense to trade DJ to get the Clippers over the hump than dealing CP3. If Chris Paul were to be traded, we might as well start over and go full rebuild, which would likely include dealing Blake Griffin eventually. That is why it makes no sense to trade Paul, Griffin, or Redick, for that matter. Those 3 players give us the best chance at a championship in the near future. Losing any one of those 3 would unlikely return a suitable replacement to continue on with our goal of Larry's any time soon.

I've previously proposed the idea of trading DeAndre Jordan because he doesn't have that winner's mentality it takes to elevate his game consistently to the required level. I even went so far as to post a poll to initiate discussions on a DJ-for-Dwight-Howard swap. Having said that, Jordan is improving and has made progress, particularly from the free-throw line of late, so he's exhibiting more of the upside that has tantalized us lo these many years.

At this point, I agree that trading DJ for a superstar is unrealistic to happen this season with the outside chance of Dwight Howard or a star player like Al Horford. Even Howard doesn't seem to qualify any more as he has been a "superstar" in name only and the luster has definitely faded from his profile. I'll attempt to answer your query for the 4 names you cited from a hypothetical standpoint but none of them should affect a Joe Johnson buyout were we to somehow acquire any of them.

Kevin Durant: A true superstar but one who is completely off limits. The Thunder are competing for a title this season, so I don't anticipate them making him available at any point this season. Yes, he's a free agent after the season, but OKC would be better off finishing out the season and seeing what his intentions are then. If the Thunder win a championship, it would go a long way toward bringing him back to establish his legacy with the only NBA franchise (Supersonics/Thunder) he's ever played for. The Thunder have his Bird rights and are anticipated to have more cap space with the projected spike in the salary cap.

I've always had the idea of doing a sign-and-trade of DJ for Durant, but that was in a leveraged scenario where Doc successfully recruited him and he threatened to sign with the Clippers outright with our available cap space. The Clips should also see a spike in cap space and have expiring contracts, but that probably wouldn't be enough to offer him a max. Durant would have to sign for a deal just below the max, which could be possible if Paul and Griffin were likewise committed to signing extensions to lower-than-max deals similar to what LeBron, Bosh, and Wade did in their run in Miami. In this scenario, OKC would be faced with either losing Durantula for nothing or getting a highly athletic center in return for him thus allowing the Clippers to max out Durant through his Bird rights.

Otherwise, the Clippers would have to offer Blake Griffin for Durant in a homecoming move for Oklahoma City and that is a non-starter for me at this point in time. The pros include Durant's offensive skill set and increasing defensive presence while the cons would be minor injury concerns and the lack of a center on the roster outside of re-signing Cole Adrich and drafting a center prospect in the 2016 draft, which seems to be deep in big-man prospects. Domantas Sabonis, anyone?

Carmelo Anthony: Melo is an inefficient superstar who bogs down an offense with his iso play. While he's shown himself to be a capable defender when the mood strikes, his contentment with going through the motions has him providing an inconsistent effort. He seems to be currently inspired to play some mentor to Euro sensation Kristaps Porzingis, but who knows how long that would last. If Phil Jackson wants to go full rebuild then trading him for DJ would make some sense, but I don't see that happening. Carmelo is too closely associated with New York, but it'd be for the best, anyway.

He is an aging player who is too similar to DJ in coasting on his abilities rather than putting in the work to expand them. The difference is that Anthony is much more naturally gifted than Jordan even if it is not athletically so. Carmelo may be inspired to play better with CP3 and BG but it is unlikely he'd provide that with any form of consistency before his play deteriorates organically outside of his prime years.

Paul George: George is simply unavailable to the Clippers; even more so than Kevin Durant only because Durant is a pending free agent. PG is young and athletic enough to build a competitive team around or a rebuilding one. There is no compromising situation to take advantage of. It would take offering Griffin for Indiana to consider it and that is a non-starter for the Clippers. The fact that he cheated on Doc's daughter just adds another nail in the coffin for this scenario.

Dwight Howard: Personally, I'd have to think Houston would be open to the possibility of acquiring hometown boy DeAndre Jordan for the soon-to-be unrestricted free agent. I've noted before that Howard is more motivated to win a championship than DeAndre Jordan and that he's a better option on offense and a better defender and possibly even rebounder. However, he's older and injury-prone on top of being a delusional diva who's proven cancerous to all 3 of the teams he's played for so far. He may be the likeliest of scenarios to be acquired in-season but it is highly questionable that he'd be worth it at this point.

[Ranma]

Trade CP to Boston for Isiah Thomas and David Lee. If you need to add another player, then add anybody except Blake, DeAndre or JJ. You get a young quality PG and another quality PF/C that can beef up the reserve squad.

I wish the Clips never traded Darren Collison. I felt that Darren performed at the PG just as well as CP in CP's absence, at a third of the pay. Actually DC was quicker and able to drive better. Isiah is even better in my view. David Lee could even play with the starters. Either way a win win in my view. You gotta give up something to get better, in my view... let CP3 go.

Dude, lay off the crack pipe. Trading Chris Paul for Isaiah Thomas and David Lee? I can't believe I'm dignifying this with a response. I'd rather trade CP3 for Brad Stevens than take that deal. We're trying to win championships and a supposed Clippers fan makes this proposal? Absurd!

Darren Collison was great off the Clippers' bench, but as it has historically been shown, he excels in playing understudy to Chris Paul whether it is with the Clippers or the Hornets (now known as the Pelicans). Collison has also shown that he can't keep a starting PG job whether it's with the Pacers, Mavericks, or Kings and you're whining about a trade that never happened? Collison signed with Sacramento for more money than the Clippers were able to offer him. Doc even outright said that he wasn't a true PG while he was playing for him.

Watch some Clippers games, do some actual research, or have a bloody clue before you come in with these ridiculous takes, "Clippers" fan.

[wasteh202]

Really ?? what has CP3 won ?

[Neddy]

Really ?? what has CP3 won ?

lmao what have barry sanders won? or steve largent? did Brad Park ever win the stanley cup? but would you give up Brad Park for Marty McSorley?

you are an idiot.

[Ranma]

Really ?? what has CP3 won ?

What has Dominique Wilkins? Pete Maravich? Elgin Baylor? Steve Nash? John Stockton? Karl Malone? Charles Barkley? Allen Iverson? Patrick Ewing? George Gervin? Chris Mullin?

There's more to being a great player than championships. Otherwise, Robert Horry would be a Hall-of-Famer. It also takes more than just great players to win championships. Go beyond the simpleton and myopic in your responses.

[wasteh202]

The Clippers need help. The starting four of Blake JJ DJ & CP are NOT the problem, I agree. The rest of the team however IS the problem. You wont get the right mix without giving up something. How many teams have an all star PF or C.... those positions are not as easy to replace with quality as a PG. There are good serviceable PG's all over the league. I can thing of at least 15. You don't need an all star PG to win. Derrick Fisher won 5 Championships as a point guard and never was an all-star one time.
You need to get two quality players for one.