Clippers Trade Jamal Crawford, 2018 Houston 1st and Diamond Stone for Danilo Gallinari

[esqtvd]

late picks are nice but


Patty Mills WAS DRAFTED #55 by Portland
Danny Green WAS DRAFTED #46 by Cleveland
Jonathon Simmons PAID $150 TO TRY OUT FOR THE D-LEAGUE

http://www.ksat.com/sports/nba/spurs/jonathon-simmons-once-paid-150-for-d-league-tryout-now-breaking-out-for-short-handed-spurs

The Spurs legend is getting a little long in the tooth

Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2017 NBA 1 29 Derrick White University of Colorado
2017 NBA 2 59 Jaron Blossomgame Clemson University
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2016 NBA 1 29 Dejounte Murray University of Washington 38 322 130 42 48 .431 .391 .700 8.5 3.4 1.1 1.3 0.0 .004 -4.8 -0.2
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2015 NBA 1 26 Nikola Milutinov
2015 NBA 2 55 Cady Lalanne University of Massachusetts Amherst
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2014 NBA 1 30 Kyle Anderson University of California, Los Angeles 183 2623 670 524 242 .442 .341 .753 14.3 3.7 2.9 1.3 6.5 .119 1.1 2.1
2014 NBA 2 58 Jordan McRae University of Tennessee 59 579 260 61 44 .404 .384 .774 9.8 4.4 1.0 0.7 0.5 .043 -5.7 -0.5
2014 NBA 2 60 Cory Jefferson Baylor University 58 581 205 161 16 .444 .125 .583 10.0 3.5 2.8 0.3 0.9 .071 -4.6 -0.4
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2013 NBA 1 28 Livio Jean-Charles
2013 NBA 2 58 Deshaun Thomas Ohio State University
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2012 NBA 2 59 Marcus Denmon University of Missouri
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2011 NBA 1 29 Cory Joseph University of Texas at Austin 364 7083 2479 821 904 .458 .317 .768 19.5 6.8 2.3 2.5 15.2 .103 -0.5 2.7
2011 NBA 2 59 Adam Hanga
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2010 NBA 1 20 James Anderson Oklahoma State University 247 4320 1422 560 291 .411 .321 .755 17.5 5.8 2.3 1.2 3.3 .037 -2.8 -0.9
2010 NBA 2 49 Ryan Richards

[Ranma]

pretty sure the outgoing pick is a rivers move so I definitely would agree. caution against giving west credit for everything.

even though doc is still a scum lord IMO

Sure, but when has Doc Rivers ever traded to get a first-round pick? Doc may have advocated for sending the pick out in order to acquire Gallinari, but West likely was the one who got it for him to deal away in the first place.

If anything, we're doing a better job of getting a better return for trading away first-rounders. Doc traded away one of our actual first-round picks in order to erase the mistake that was the Jared Dudley signing and subsequent mishandling. He then traded another of our own future first-rounders in order to rent Jeff Green for less than half the regular season. All short-sighted moves at the cost of our future.

Now we're about to send away Houston's first-round pick (not our own) to acquire a player who is offensively efficient and under team control for at least 3 seasons whether as a player or trade asset. Granted, the pick from the Rockets still holds value in its own right, but at least it doesn't prevent us from drafting in the first-round beyond Doc's previously ill-advised squandering of draft picks. Again, at least the benefits of dealing away such an asset is anticipated to last longer than the 3 months we've gotten so far from Doc's previous wheeling and dealings.

Yeah, there's only so much West can do with Doc still possessing significant influence of our team's direction. We're at the very least executing our plans better.

[esqtvd]

FTR, the Jeff Green pick has already been dumped by Memphis for two 2nd rounders
and Milwaukee dumped the Jared Dudley pick for the immortal Greivis Vasquez, who's now out of the league

yes, the Memphis 2nd rounders would be nice but the butcher's bill was not as big a tragedy as it seems

[Ranma]

late picks are nice but


Patty Mills WAS DRAFTED #55 by Portland
Danny Green WAS DRAFTED #46 by Cleveland
Jonathon Simmons PAID $150 TO TRY OUT FOR THE D-LEAGUE

I've mentioned previously likely before your first post here that drafting is at least a 2-part measure. Identifying talent and developing it. Of course, putting yourself in a position to draft said identified talent is another component but that rests more on the maneuvering side of transactions in being a GM.

Late first-round picks obviously aren't as valuable as lottery picks given the difference in probabilities of finding quality talent at those respective positions on the draft board, but even still, late first-rounders provide opportunities on occasion when players fall for whatever reason or to grab a coveted player before they reach the second round.

In 2011, Jimmy Butler was taken 30th overall as the last pick in the first round. In 2015, Larry Nance, Jr. was taken 27th overall in the first round. Both drafts were years the Clippers didn't have a draft pick. In 2015, Doc tried to buy back in but could only muster purchasing the 56th overall pick in the second round that was 5 picks away from the end of draft. Instead of getting a player a lot of us on this board were actually high on in Nance, Jr., the Clippers had to settle for Branden Dawson, who has since been out of the NBA. Butler was definitely a guy I wanted back in 2011 and thought was a great value late in that draft.

There's also something to be said for the value of second-round picks, which have lowered expectations and less commitment required, but even here, positioning provides advantages when opportunities present themselves. Malcolm Brogdon was taken 36th overall and Patrick McCaw was taken 38th overall in the second round of the 2016 draft. Doc instead traded down from 33rd overall in the same draft in order to settle for David Michineau (39th overall) and Diamond Stone (40th).

We can continue this exercise and even point to Isaiah Thomas as the very last player taken in the 2011 draft, but the point is that IT's case is an absolute anomaly and that the higher in the draft, the better you have a chance to capitalize in drafting a quality player. It's an obvious outlook, but one I want to emphasize that talent can be found anywhere on the draft board, but we have to invest the time and resources to put ourselves in position to make the most of the opportunities presented to us in a process described as a crapshoot. Draft picks may be lottery tickets but the ones that pay off big are the ones where teams typically invest in preparation for those picks.

This brings me to the development aspect of talent that I mentioned earlier. Finding talent alone is wasted when you don't bother to cultivate it by developing skills or providing playing time for confidence to build or experience to learn from. Doc has thoroughly failed at this with young players not related to him.

You cited the Spurs and Kawhi Leonard represents a crowning achievement in that regard. He was not only identified by the scouts as a talented player, but one who would specifically fit their system. On top of that, the organization famously provided him with training to refine his mechanics, which coupled with Leonard's own personal drive to succeed resulted in a player that far exceeded even Gregg Popovich's expectations of him. Again, you're not always going to hit on every player or pick, but the best organizations make the most out of the ones that do.

With an established G-League affiliate and Jerry West aboard, the Clippers have the opportunity of moving toward following in the footsteps of the Spurs or the Warriors, for that matter, but we're still a ways away as I've previously noted how we need to upgrade our methodologies and staff in the areas of medical, training, skills development, and the like. Under Doc, we've even seemingly ignored scouting or at least signing talent from the previously titled D-League. We have to explore more avenues available to us as well as invest in finding new ways to progressively improve not only our prospects but our veteran players as well. Hiring Kevin Garnett as a practice/team consultant is another good sign, but there is more to be done.

[Ranma]

FTR, the Jeff Green pick has already been dumped by Memphis for two 2nd rounders
and Milwaukee dumped the Jared Dudley pick for the immortal Greivis Vasquez, who's now out of the league

yes, the Memphis 2nd rounders would be nice but the butcher's bill was not as big a tragedy as it seems

Like I said, it's unreasonable to expect to hit on every draft pick, but the draft is more than just a matter of luck. After all, luck favors the prepared and, as I've illustrated above, teams are best served by investing in preparation for the draft in order to capitalize big when opportunities present themselves. Taking a dismissive attitude to the draft is quite a dangerous and foolhardy game that Doc has played and miserably lost over the years. Even with its misses, it's undoubtedly the most cost-efficient avenue of adding talent to an NBA roster, especially in light of shrinking projected salary caps.

[Dloading99]

I think you guys are actually better then you were Last year. Danillo Gallinari is an upgrade over Chris Paul. great three point shooter great free throw shooter. can score in the post. Length. you can run offense through him. and you've never had a three like him. put him with Blake and now you can actually play Blake at five or sometimes play Danillo at the five. it just makes your team deeper.

Paul was great but with his regression at the position and his height it was harder for him to score this is coming from a guy who had him on his fantasy basketball team and drafted him number one overall. I watched every game. I watched all his games.

Now you got Lou Williams who is younger can score from three you can still run pick and roll with Lou and Blake like you did with Paul and you still got Gallinari and now you run pick and roll with Gallenari and Lou it's going to be impossible to defend. This is Jerry West at his best assessing a team and doing what makes the most basketball sense. now You still have Austin. and you still have Patrick Beverly for lock down Defense.

I like this lineup best. pg Beverly sg Williams Sf Gallanari pf Griffin c Jordan

Why I like it against the Warriors is because you give them something many teams don't give them including the Rockets Length in Gallanari a guy Durant has to defend and a Guy who will get Durant in foul trouble. now Gallanri is Very tall and he's strong.

You got Beverly a guy who can get under curry. and if you want to score with them you still got Lou Williams or you can get that griddy defense from Austin Rivers. now you still gotta defend Klay Lol.

But this team is a way Deeper team and better then running Chris Paul Blake Griffin and Deandre out there again. you can still put Sam Decker on Klay Thompson. so you got a lot of Lanky guys.

[og15]

I think you guys are actually better then you were Last year. Danillo Gallinari is an upgrade over Chris Paul. great three point shooter great free throw shooter. can score in the post. Length. you can run offense through him. and you've never had a three like him. put him with Blake and now you can actually play Blake at five or sometimes play Danillo at the five. it just makes your team deeper.

Paul was great but with his regression at the position and his height it was harder for him to score this is coming from a guy who had him on his fantasy basketball team and drafted him number one overall. I watched every game. I watched all his games.

Now you got Lou Williams who is younger can score from three you can still run pick and roll with Lou and Blake like you did with Paul and you still got Gallinari and now you run pick and roll with Gallenari and Lou it's going to be impossible to defend. This is Jerry West at his best assessing a team and doing what makes the most basketball sense. now You still have Austin. and you still have Patrick Beverly for lock down Defense.

I like this lineup best. pg Beverly sg Williams Sf Gallanari pf Griffin c Jordan

Why I like it against the Warriors is because you give them something many teams don't give them including the Rockets Length in Gallanari a guy Durant has to defend and a Guy who will get Durant in foul trouble. now Gallanri is Very tall and he's strong.

You got Beverly a guy who can get under curry. and if you want to score with them you still got Lou Williams or you can get that griddy defense from Austin Rivers. now you still gotta defend Klay Lol.

But this team is a way Deeper team and better then running Chris Paul Blake Griffin and Deandre out there again. you can still put Sam Decker on Klay Thompson. so you got a lot of Lanky guys.

Gallo is in no way better than Paul, we're happy they made some moves to improve, but we aren't delusional. Paul has averaged like 25 PPG in the playoffs the last two seasons, he's been pretty great, but injuries to himself and Blake and lack of help due to injury the past two seasons have been the issue. At least in terms of getting past the first time but also in regular season wins which set them up to play GS in the second round even if they did advance.

[Quake Griffin]

late picks are nice but


Patty Mills WAS DRAFTED #55 by Portland
Danny Green WAS DRAFTED #46 by Cleveland
Jonathon Simmons PAID $150 TO TRY OUT FOR THE D-LEAGUE

I've mentioned before likely before your first post here that drafting is at least a 2-part measure. Identifying talent and developing it. Of course, putting yourself in a position to draft said identified talent is another component but that rests more on the maneuvering side of transactions in being a GM.

Late first-round picks obviously aren't as valuable as lottery picks given the difference in probabilities of finding quality talent at those respective positions on the draft board, but even still, late first-rounders provide opportunities on occasion when players fall for whatever reason or to grab a coveted player before they reach the second round.

In 2011, Jimmy Butler was taken 30th overall as the last pick in the first round. In 2015, Larry Nance, Jr. was taken 27th overall in the first round. Both drafts were years the Clippers didn't have a draft pick. In 2015, Doc tried to buy back in but could only muster purchasing the 56th overall pick in the second round that was 5 picks away from the end of draft. Instead of getting a player a lot of us on this board were actually high on in Nance, Jr., the Clippers had to settle for Branden Dawson, who has since been out of the NBA. Butler was definitely a guy I wanted back in 2011 and thought was a great value late in that draft.

There's also something to be said for the value of second-round picks, which have lowered expectations and less commitment required, but even here, positioning provides advantages when opportunities present themselves. Malcolm Brogdon was taken 36th overall and Patrick McCaw was taken 38th overall in the second round of the 2016 draft. Doc instead traded down from 33rd overall in the same draft in order to settle for David Michineau (39th overall) and Diamond Stone (40th).

We can continue this exercise and even point to Isiah Thomas as the very last player taken in the 2011 draft, but the point is that IT's case is an absolute anomaly and that the higher in the draft, the better you have a chance to capitalize in drafting a quality player. It's an obvious outlook, but one I want to emphasize that talent can be found anywhere on the draft board, but we have to invest the time and resources to put ourselves in position to make the most of the opportunities presented to us in a process described as a crapshoot. Draft picks may be lottery tickets but the ones that pay off big are the ones where teams typically invest in preparation for those picks.

This brings me to the development aspect of talent that I mentioned earlier. Find talent alone is wasted when you don't bother to cultivate it by developing skills or providing playing time for confidence to build or experience to learn from. Doc has thoroughly failed at this with young players not related to him.

You cited the Spurs and Kawhi Leonard represents a crowing achievement in that regard. He was not only identified by the scouts as not only a talented player but one who would specifically fit their system. On top of that, the organization famously provided him with training to refine his mechanics, which coupled with Leonard's own personal drive to succeed resulted in a player that far exceeded even Gregg Popovich's expectations of him. Again, you're not always going to hit on every player or pick, but the best organizations make the most out of the ones that do.

With an established G-League affiliate and Jerry West aboard, the Clippers have the opportunity of moving toward following in the footsteps of the Spurs or the Warriors, for that matter, but we're still a ways away as I've previously noted how we need to upgrade our methodologies and staff in the areas of medical, training, skills development, and the like. Under Doc, we've even seemingly ignored scouting or at least signing talent from the previously titled D-League. We have to explore more avenues available to us as well as invest finding new ways to progressively improve not only our prospects but our veteran players as well. Hiring Kevin Garnett as a practice/team consultant is another good sign, but there is more to be done.

Thank you for understanding that the spirit of what I was saying had to do with finding talent, developing it, and the draft is one of the ways to find those players....not that Patty specifically was a draft pick.

What I envy about Pop isnt Patty Mills the player per se. Not Kyle Anderson per se. But it's his ability to develop these players on contending teams without using the coward's excuse that they aren't ready to win now.



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[TucsonClip]

Im going to stay out of the draft pick discussion, because esqtvd and I have had it 1,000,000 times on the scout forum.

Ideally I would have liked to keep Houston's pick, but Gallo is a guy well worth the price, not to mention offloading Jamal in the process. Ive posted my takes on what I like about Gallo here a few times, and his offensive efficiency and ability to draw fouls was worth the pick. Im still "meh" on the entire deal, but we certainly could have done worse.

[nickhx2]

i mostly agree. i like the deal more than i hate it, and i think watching the team will be a lot more free and entertaining to watch for the first time in a while. at least for me.

the thing that is easiest to take down is that the team hasn't made any disastrous long term deals or terrible trades and going into the next couple years that is a really good thing for us.

[esqtvd]

FTR, the Jeff Green pick has already been dumped by Memphis for two 2nd rounders
and Milwaukee dumped the Jared Dudley pick for the immortal Greivis Vasquez, who's now out of the league

yes, the Memphis 2nd rounders would be nice but the butcher's bill was not as big a tragedy as it seems

Like I said, it's unreasonable to expect to hit on every draft pick, but the draft is more than just a matter of luck. After all, luck favors the prepared and, as I've illustrated above, teams are best served by investing in preparation for the draft in order to capitalize big when opportunities present themselves. Taking a dismissive attitude to the draft is quite a dangerous and foolhardy game that Doc has played and miserably lost over the years. Even with its misses, it's undoubtedly the most cost-efficient avenue of adding talent to an NBA roster, especially in light of shrinking projected salary caps.

No, you're not going to hit on every draft pick but the point here is that when it comes to late 20s picks, you're going to MISS on them most often. Finding the 1 in 10 exception who happened to hit is not probative. The 9 who miss are.

And the point here is putting the mourning over Doc's traded FRPs into proper perspective. Because also FTR, the FRP we traded to genius GM Danny Ainge to acquire Doc turned into RJ Hunter---who's also out of the league! "First round pick" sounds like a big deal, but all FRPs are not created equal, and two of three we traded are already out of the NBA! [And the third was already flipped for two 2nd-rounders.]

As for the rest of Doc's trades, 3 of 5 of our missing 2nd rounders were traded by previous regimes before he got here, and he even managed to swindle ORL for a 2nd in return for CJ Wilcox. And we bought 2nd rounders higher than our own would have been for cash, so that's their value.

As for a "dismissive" attitude toward the draft, it's more a counterbalance to overvaluing 19-yr-olds who are years away from being playoff contributors. A prime example is Jerami Grant--whom many in Clipperdom were interested in, and in whom the 76ers invested 3500 minutes of NBA playing time, and OKC another 1500 after that. Now it's time to pay him, and he's still middling at best.

The real question--and where we agree--is whether the big $$ I assume we threw at development guru John Welch in September 2016 pays off. As we see, the Spurs didn't draft Mills, Green or Simmons--they developed them. But that's a different story than the draft. Frankly, with the way our bench leaked points, we never had the luxury to invest PT in kids. Hopefully, especially with the new 17-man roster, this will change.

[Ranma]

No, you're not going to hit on every draft pick but the point here is that when it comes to late 20s picks, you're going to MISS on them most often. Finding the 1 in 10 exception who happened to hit is not probative. The 9 who miss are.

What are you talking about? I just cited 2 instances in 2015 and 2011 where the Clippers could have had Larry Nance, Jr. and Jimmy Butler had we had first-round picks in those drafts. So even if we were to go with the simplified assumption that we'd have all our first-rounders in each year from 2017 through 2011, which we didn't, and that we missed on every other pick, that's a success rate of 2 out of 7.

Of course, your argument would be that it was no sure thing that we would have drafted them given that they were passed over and given Doc's track record, but hold onto that for my subsequent response to that point. The point is that there were opportunities to get impact players. It's on teams to do the proper preparation to limit the guesswork to make the right call just like it is to invest millions of dollars in a long-term contract for NBA players. I even pointed out that us armchair GMs on this board favored Nance, Jr. at the time and that Butler even stood out to me.

Heck, by your logic, the Clippers are 50 - 1 odds to win the championship. Why do we even bother playing the season then? Why do other NBA teams pay big-money to free agents when they can collect revenue-sharing cash and split tax money from luxury-tax-paying teams?

Hitting on the draft is a much more successful venture than playing for a championship and it's also the most cost-effective resource available to teams to build rosters, if used properly. If they were such bad investments, other teams besides Doc, would be giving away first-rounders like candy. Even when Doc finally realized the error of his ways, he found a hard time buying back into the draft these past few years. This isn't debatable.

And the point here is putting the mourning over Doc's traded FRPs into proper perspective. Because also FTR, the FRP we traded to genius GM Danny Ainge to acquire Doc turned into RJ Hunter---who's also out of the league! "First round pick" sounds like a big deal, but all FRPs are not created equal, and two of three we traded are already out of the NBA! [And the third was already flipped for two 2nd-rounders.]

Why are you lumping all teams together? Yes, taken as a whole the draft is a crapshoot and you're not always going to find good players. If it was a sure thing, players wouldn't be getting the big-money contracts in the NBA. However, some teams do a better job at utilizing the draft than others.

Just because Doc does it worse than anyone else, you don't do what he does and dismiss the draft. You fire the moron doing a crappy job and find someone who has a better proven track record. Hello, Jerry West. West not only put together the "Showtime" Lakers, but he drafted Kobe Bryant, a player Elgin Baylor (prompted by Bill Fitch) told at a dinner that the Clippers wouldn't draft out of fear of not being taken seriously. We were left with Lorenzen Wright instead.

Certain teams and executives do a better job at drafting than others and it's not by luck, so cherry-picking failures from other teams means nothing without context. Yes, draft picks are not the be all and end all, which is why I was okay this time giving up the pick acquired from Houston given its anticipated low draft position. However, that doesn't mean it doesn't hold significant value. Even the Hawks' new GM, Travis Schlenk--someone I've advocated to be the Clippers new GM during his time with Golden State, BTW--just came out and stated how valuable that pick was to his organization as they are undergoing their rebuild.

I've mentioned before that picks are opportunities to hit big. Just because they're not sure things doesn't make them negligible in value. It's quite the contrary if in the possession of capable talent evaluators in progressive organizations. It's obvious to practically everybody including NBA teams. You only have to look at how the dynasties of the Celtics and Lakers were built through the draft and that was before the salary-cap era, which places even more value on draft picks.

Yes, not all first-round picks are created equal, but I've already illustrated multiple times that there have always been opportunities to hit no matter what draft slot you're selecting from and, again, certain teams have a tendency to hit on those picks more than others. To borrow your premise, not all teams are created equal either.

As for the rest of Doc's trades, 3 of 5 of our missing 2nd rounders were traded by previous regimes before he got here, and he even managed to swindle ORL for a 2nd in return for CJ Wilcox. And we bought 2nd rounders higher than our own would have been for cash, so that's their value.

Doc's draft record has been a shambles of ineptitude and I've previously discussed at extended length how flawed and antiquated his approach has been on multiple occasions when he doesn't even go with the Best-Player-Available strategy. Doc has been vilified as a GM for good reason and only his apologists see otherwise.

As for a "dismissive" attitude toward the draft, it's more a counterbalance to overvaluing 19-yr-olds who are years away from being playoff contributors. A prime example is Jerami Grant--whom many in Clipperdom were interested in, and in whom the 76ers invested 3500 minutes of NBA playing time, and OKC another 1500 after that. Now it's time to pay him, and he's still middling at best.

The cool thing about the draft is that teams don't have to commit to a player on his rookie deal if he doesn't prove to be worth it. First-round picks are under team control for at least 5 years but only 3 of those years are guaranteed with a team option for the 4th year and a qualifying offer for the 5th year for restricted free agency. It's quite possibly the most team-friendly proposition at a general manager's disposal. Even ignoring the fact that Doc doesn't play young players without the "Rivers" surname, you forget that the Clippers finally have a G-League affiliate now to help further develop young players without taking time on an NBA roster.

Plus, rookies--even underdeveloped ones--provide more value with NBA playing time even if only for the experience gained than the walking corpse of Paul Pierce, constant net-negative Jamal Crawford, or the previous multitude of "winners" hand-picked by Doc such as Byron Mullens, Antawn Jamison, Alan Anderson, Josh Smith, Lance Stephenson, Jeff Green, and Hedo Turkoglu and at a fraction of the cost of their respective NBA contracts and cap space.

Even if a player is too costly, there's always the possibility of trading that player in a sign-and-trade scenario, which is becoming more prevalent in a shrinking projected cap space environment. This shows that the draft provides options in addition to opportunities.

If you can't see all the benefits the draft affords, then I don't know what more to say when practically every NBA fan, observer, and team personnel already knows how valuable that it is to their teams. Quite frankly, I've discussed this matter too much and for too long and, after dealing with myopic Miami Heat fans over their lowered standard of retiring numbers, I'm not in a particularly patient mood to argue over something that is so evident with all due respect.

[TucsonClip]

Been having this same discussion for years, Ranma. It was a valiant effort though.

[Quake Griffin]

Small piggy back. Ranma covered it all. Forgot to say...

Don't forget that Kawhi Leonard is really just the offspring of the 26th pick of the 2008 draft if you follow the trail.


73-9 Warriors and 2017 Championship Warriors thought it was important to get back into consecutive drafts.

Spurs value late picks.
2/3 rings. 73-9 Warriors value them.
I'll stick with valuing those picks.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Neddy]

i have given this a thought and I think I see a consistent pattern and the difference between the fans on the rebuild side, and the other fans on the retool side.

those that are on our side ( the rebuild side) are mostly the fans who have been with this franchise for more than a decade or two, some going 3, even 4. we have seen the worst and remember all the little jubilant moments when we hit the jackpot or make it to the playoffs ( remember the Larry Brown Clips? or when we won the #1 pick BEFORE that pick turned into Olowokandi?) for us, we see how significantly, and fundamentally this franchise has changed for the better. we went from having the worst pro sports owner in history of sports in DTS to the best, richest one over night in Steve. we have had the most crappy front office people to getting the almighty Jerry West to oversee things. from Elton Brand and Cat Mobley days to current Blake era, we have seen rather consistent results. this group, we trust the mechanism we have been provided by Steve and Co.
I suppose the analogy I can give, is that under DTS, we were basically a 1993 Toshiba Satellite lab tap that took about 5 minutes to just to boot up. we also had some **** softwares in that machine( and let's say the software are the players that the lab tap is running) but every once in a while, something good comes along and you didn't mind waiting for it to function. you know you own a **** computer, but there was some joy of owning that piece of junk when that happens. suddenly, your rich uncle Steve bought you the latest, best hardware machine money can buy. it is so fast that you can run multiple programs simultaneously and each one of them are all fascinating, memory eating, incredibly talented, well made top of the line softwares. if you knew you can trust the hardware, then you wound't mind if some of the fascinating softwares you tried out for a short 'trial period' is over with, because you know uncle Steve will get you those or even better ones to run on the top machine he just got you.

the retool crowd, and there is nothing wrong with being part of it, seems to me at least that they are the younger crowd, if not by age, by their clipper fandom. they were hooked by our beloved when they saw flying dunking man in jersey #32, and the point god CP3 were throwing lobs from all over the court. for this crowd, because, as at least one particular poster from that crowd puts it, that we are "nostalgic" and "comfortable" to our losing ways, believes in this way because they have never been through such conditions and not knowing, at whichever the topic, creates fear. they fear we will spiral down and go right back into the deep abyss we came from and may never recover, or soon enough for them to enjoy it. these are the folks who would not even remember what 1993 Toshiba Satellite was. they have always had relatively newer machines, and always enjoyed solid to excellent software to go with it. you can even say they have good taste, or have been privileged, depending on how you look at it. there is nothing wrong with these folks to say they will not downgrade. if one was born and raised not to accept nothing but the best, that's fine. that's the same reason why I moved my children to rural Oregon, away from my urban LA childhood memories. what this crowd do not see however, is that we already have the best hardware. nobody in pro sports have a deeper pocket than Steve. nobody has proven to be a best executive than Jerry West. even with having basic, start up programs in your machine, if you have the experience to understand the context, you know it is only a matter of time until things get better. but even this idea, only comes with having gone through the bad machines and times.

anywho, I'm sorry to leave such a lengthy post about really, nothing that anyone asked about, but just wanted to say I concur with both Ranma and Quake about valuing picks. we have the best hardware, it is inevitable that we get to have our hands on some of the best softwares that will be available. it's okay if we miss some, but by also hiring the best talent evaluator, we will have a better success % wise than others. if you can have that, then it is impossible not to succeed in a long run. having more picks, gives us more chances to shoot the dart.

okay, I'm done with this post.

[Ranma]

I realized that I forgot to mention something that og15 previously brought up in our prior draft discussion, which I think is pertinent, and I don't believe has been pointed out more comprehensively before. The data is 10 years old but covers a 20-year span of draft statistics.

Based on the presented data for the first-round, even in a worst-case scenario of having the 29th overall selection slot, any team has at least a 25% chance of getting a role player at minimum for the roster with a first-round selection. However, the average rate of success based on the same criteria is approximately 36.6% for draft slots 25-30 towards the bottom of the first round. Furthermore, any pick higher than that range with the exception of the 22nd overall selection slot has an over 50% rate of success.

Of course, "success" will be defined differently the higher the draft position, but the fact remains that a team typically has a better chance than not of getting a player who will contribute just by virtue of utilizing a first-round selection.

All of Doc Rivers's picks for the Clippers, on the other hand, have so far yielded nothing but deep bench players, busts, and players who never played in the NBA. Even with regard to his self-imposed limited opportunities, Doc has drafted worse than can be expectedly probable regardless of draft position in the first round. If you can believe it, he has actually lowered the Clippers' already low historical rate of success.

I'm just saying that it takes a special kind of moron to approach the draft with such disregard as to reach such high levels of ineptitude. Congrats on this remarkable feat of failure, Doc.

Roland Beech, 82games.com (2009)

Thanks to an assist from the wonderful Basketball-Reference.com web site, which kindly publishes year by year charts of draft picks along with career basic stats next to the player, I gathered together the last twenty NBA Drafts (1989-2008) with an array of intended analysis in mind.
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NBA Draft Picks: Expected Performance


Roland Beech, 82games.com (2009)

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Then there's the Clippers of the Korolev (#12), Randy Woods (#16), Kimble (#8), Ely (#12), Dooling (#10), Livingston (#4), Olowokandi (#1) horror show. Elgin may want to rethink his discrimination lawsuit, seems like there was some just cause perhaps at work here. The Clippers had 11 top ten picks in the twenty years, and only one of these top ten guys (Odom taken at #4) became a star. Now of course, you could argue and I might that the bigger issue isn't the drafting but the player development once the player gets to the team...more on this later!

NBA Draft Analysis: Best/Worst Drafting Teams

[Vae Victus]

I kinda wonder. What if instead of Crawful being sent ATL's way, they sent Lou Will, would the HOU 1st rounder still have been sent?

If not, would ya'll still make the trade? Crawful retains his role as bench chucker of course.

[janmagn]

I kinda wonder. What if instead of Crawful being sent ATL's way, they sent Lou Will, would the HOU 1st rounder still have been sent?

If not, would ya'll still make the trade? Crawful retains his role as bench chucker of course.

I'd rather trade Crawford and a late first than LouWill

Lähetetty minun LG-H440n laitteesta Tapatalkilla

[neutralfan]

Just curious how do you guys think you will do with all the moves. If healthy I believe Clips easily make playoffs. Even without CP3 you got a lot back in return. I don't think you have lost much and don't think you go that far down if everyone remains healthy.

[donemilio21]

is this trade finalized ?