Around the NBA II

[MartinToVaught]

CP3's over the hill now? That's weird, a few weeks ago, he was turning back the clock with his vegan diet. But suddenly when the pressure was on in the playoffs and he actually had to face the other team's best players, he became "over the hill." Never mind that he choked the same way in his 20s and early 30s as he did at 37.

Chauncey owned him, Parker owned him, DWill owned him, Curry owned him, etc. CP3 just isn't as feared or respected as some of his peers when it matters most. None of this is anything new, the only thing new is that the media invited Pat on to say it for a change instead of just pretending it never happened and moving on to trashing more accomplished players for lesser failures instead.

[nickhx2]

basically beverley is your average poster on the GB

Lol, basically.

I mean Beverley said he's like Giannis on defense except 6'0 tall. That's why the more he says, the more it's like wait, now you are just making yourself look dumb.

Luka hunted him and took him out of our rotation last season in the playoffs, DNP-CD type of out of the rotation, that's why it's odd to hear him call someone else out for not being able to guard Luka when he was equally as bad or worse. When you wait until guys are over the hill to start talking a big game, it's like, well...

Bev is actually a good teammate, but I said it when he was here, his problem is that he doesn't know when to draw the line, and that's also in games where he'll get stupid techs or do unnecessary things to erase the good things he does. It might get him an ESPN gig in the future though, he can certainly get you clicks, so whether deliberate or not, he's smart in that sense.

ya, honestly he has mouth-breather takes that are a perfect fit for TV (and for those realGM GB acolytes). but it's his willingness to say them unfiltered, no matter how mouth-breathy they are, that'll get him paid on ESPN lol

[og15]

CP3's over the hill now? That's weird, a few weeks ago, he was turning back the clock with his vegan diet. But suddenly when the pressure was on in the playoffs and he actually had to face the other team's best players, he became "over the hill." Never mind that he choked the same way in his 20s and early 30s as he did at 37.

Chauncey owned him, Parker owned him, DWill owned him, Curry owned him, etc. CP3 just isn't as feared or respected as some of his peers when it matters most. None of this is anything new, the only thing new is that the media invited Pat on to say it for a change instead of just pretending it never happened and moving on to trashing more accomplished players for lesser failures instead.

I think the vegan diet thing started 3 years ago in OKC. Yea...over the hill means past your prime, it's pretty self explanatory, the peak of the hill is the prime, when you go past that (over), you are no longer there and are now "over the hill". Do we think Lebron is also still in his prime too? Paul averaged his lowest ppg of his career and had a career low 3.4% of shot attempts at the rim compared to a career average 15.4% and you were analyzing all season and saying, "yea, this guy is definitely in his prime?"

Not everyone just drops off to oblivion when they pass their prime though. Over the hill is not the same as being done.

[MartinToVaught]

Straight facts:

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[clipperlover]

I think Jimmy Butler deserves mad respect for going to Miami. The guy could have went to L.A. and joined with LeBron or Kawhi. Instead, he said "I'm nobody's Robin, I'm Batman". The guy has led his team to the WCF two times in 3 years and the Finals once (could be twice soon). Jimmy deserves a lot more credit than he gets.

[Dynamix]

Ok, so I just watched a YouTube clip where John Wall did the same thing in a game against the Cavs, but still, pretty damn rare.

[esqtvd]

I don't regret the trade for Paul George--it netted us Kawhi as well. Two-for-one.

It cost us Shai, who is a nice player but even if he manages to start staying healthy, is looking like a Kemba, the best player on a nowhere team. And the draft picks will turn out to be monkey picks--this year's pick will probably end up being the highest at #12 and the rest in the 20s.

But where Jerry and Ballmer f**ked up was not making a strong run at Jimmy Butler instead of trading for PG and keeping Shai and all the picks. The man is a winner. My hometown 76ers f**ked up even worse by letting Jimmy go as an UFA. And keeping "good soldier" Tobias Harris, ffs.

Jimmy is Pat Bev except he can actually play basketball. And we MISS Pat Bev, make no mistake. No way Pat Bev loses our TWO play-in games without being thrown out of the arena and suspended into next year.

After a very competitive season, when the chips counted, we went down like dogs. Meanwhile, over in the East...

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[esqtvd]

[TrueLAfan]

I like Butler, but he’s a very much a “does not always play well with others” sort of guy. He’s the man in Miami and he’s showing he can be that player. And I do think Butler would have liked playing with Kawhi, who complements his strengths very well. I also think the fact that Kawhi is largely silent would have fine by Butler, who is … not silent. Historically, Butler reminds me of Oscar Robertson. They aren’t alike as players, but they are in temperament. Oscar was very much a no BS player and would kind of viciously chew out teammates and management who didn’t work as hard or weren’t committed to the game as he was. And since Oscar worked very hard and had terrific commitment, it meant he was hard on a lot of teammates and teams. When he got to the Bucks, he found a player as talented and committed and hardworking as him with Kareem, and they got a title. But it’s a risk with Butler.

But I’m totally with you on the draft picks. Draft picks are about guesswork. Their primary strength is as trade chips—which is just what we used them for. The odds of getting a PG level player, or two player who could combined to give you Paul George level impact with, say, 3 or 4 mid teens/early 20s draft picks isn’t that high. And you have to wait for it, which closes windows as another one starts to open. It is what it is.

[MartinToVaught]

Flopping's been around since Red Auerbach, but he's right that it's gotten a lot worse.

[esqtvd]

I like Butler, but he’s a very much a “does not always play well with others” sort of guy. He’s the man in Miami and he’s showing he can be that player. And I do think Butler would have liked playing with Kawhi, who complements his strengths very well. I also think the fact that Kawhi is largely silent would have fine by Butler, who is … not silent. Historically, Butler reminds me of Oscar Robertson. They aren’t alike as players, but they are in temperament. Oscar was very much a no BS player and would kind of viciously chew out teammates and management who didn’t work as hard or weren’t committed to the game as he was. And since Oscar worked very hard and had terrific commitment, it meant he was hard on a lot of teammates and teams. When he got to the Bucks, he found a player as talented and committed and hardworking as him with Kareem, and they got a title. But it’s a risk with Butler.

CP3?

[esqtvd]

Flopping's been around since Red Auerbach, but he's right that it's gotten a lot worse.

[MartinToVaught]

Hockey has plenty of divers over the years. The Sedin twins were like having two James Hardens on one team, and don't even get me started on Brad Marchand.

[TrueLAfan]

I like Butler, but he’s a very much a “does not always play well with others” sort of guy. He’s the man in Miami and he’s showing he can be that player. And I do think Butler would have liked playing with Kawhi, who complements his strengths very well. I also think the fact that Kawhi is largely silent would have fine by Butler, who is … not silent. Historically, Butler reminds me of Oscar Robertson. They aren’t alike as players, but they are in temperament. Oscar was very much a no BS player and would kind of viciously chew out teammates and management who didn’t work as hard or weren’t committed to the game as he was. And since Oscar worked very hard and had terrific commitment, it meant he was hard on a lot of teammates and teams. When he got to the Bucks, he found a player as talented and committed and hardworking as him with Kareem, and they got a title. But it’s a risk with Butler.

CP3?

Same with CP3. Chris Paul is a wonderful player, a top 30 AT player. But he has the same trajectory with every team--1-3 years of adulation, a year or two of cooling off, and then the sense that things keep happening that stop him/us. It's happened real fast in Phoenix; this was the "cooling off" year--largely because they did so well last year, and it seemed to be going well into the playoffs. CP3 has two other factors going against him with other players (including teammates):

- He's a dirty player, and is totally willing to cross lines to get an advantage.
- He's got a tendency to get/take more credit for success, and deflect frustration about losses. That's not 100% his fault, but it's still there.

#2 is the reason why teammates kinds cool off on him after a while--so, between those two, I'll definitely say "doesn't play well with others."

[MartinToVaught]

Another problem with CP3 is that he screeches at his teammates all season like a yapping chihuahua, and then when the biggest games of the season come around, he disappears. He carries himself like a ten-time champion when he's actually won nothing and never made it past the second round as the first option of a team.

[esqtvd]

I like Butler, but he’s a very much a “does not always play well with others” sort of guy. He’s the man in Miami and he’s showing he can be that player. And I do think Butler would have liked playing with Kawhi, who complements his strengths very well. I also think the fact that Kawhi is largely silent would have fine by Butler, who is … not silent. Historically, Butler reminds me of Oscar Robertson. They aren’t alike as players, but they are in temperament. Oscar was very much a no BS player and would kind of viciously chew out teammates and management who didn’t work as hard or weren’t committed to the game as he was. And since Oscar worked very hard and had terrific commitment, it meant he was hard on a lot of teammates and teams. When he got to the Bucks, he found a player as talented and committed and hardworking as him with Kareem, and they got a title. But it’s a risk with Butler.

CP3?

Same with CP3. Chris Paul is a wonderful player, a top 30 AT player. But he has the same trajectory with every team--1-3 years of adulation, a year or two of cooling off, and then the sense that things keep happening that stop him/us. It's happened real fast in Phoenix; this was the "cooling off" year--largely because they did so well last year, and it seemed to be going well into the playoffs. CP3 has two other factors going against him with other players (including teammates):

- He's a dirty player, and is totally willing to cross lines to get an advantage.
- He's got a tendency to get/take more credit for success, and deflect frustration about losses. That's not 100% his fault, but it's still there.

#2 is the reason why teammates kinds cool off on him after a while--so, between those two, I'll definitely say "doesn't play well with others."

I don't think Blake did either, which is why Ballmer dumped him 3 months into his lifetime contract--after CP was gone. Seen in that light, Lob City didn't underachieve at all.

[MartinToVaught]

I've never heard any complaints about Blake as a teammate in Detroit or Brooklyn. CP3, on the other hand, got ran out of Houston and now the honeymoon appears to be over in Phoenix.

It's obvious to anyone who isn't agenda-driven who the problems were with Lob City. Since the end of that era, Doc has solidified himself as the worst coach and biggest choke artist in sports history, CP3 has alienated even more teammates and added a few more playoff meltdowns to his resume, DJ has become unplayable now that he's lost a step and only cares about selfishly padding his rebounds, and Austin is barely clinging on to a spot in the league now that he doesn't have his dad force-feeding him minutes and touches. Meanwhile, Blake's been drama-free.

[esqtvd]

which is why Ballmer dumped his ass 3 months into his lifetime contract




everybody sucked but St. Blake
especially his HOF point guard and his HOF coach
but still Lob City underachieved
check

The Clippers gave him a max contract last year, and when the time to trade him came up, they did it without a second thought. And, they traded him to Detroit. For Tobias Harris and Avery Bradley. That is not the return you'd expect for a supposed superstar. He then proceeded to do nothing to help the Pistons get to the playoffs. The one thing he helped do was get Stan Van Gundy fired as GM and coach. Van Gundy took that risk, and it blew up in his face.

Even before the trade, he was not the star the Clippers made him out to be. He was more known for his whining, dunking, doing stupid **** to fans and getting hurt. He missed his entire rookie year due to injury. He then wasn't much of a star in his next year, even if he won Rookie of the Year. [Michael Carter Williams has also won that award by the way.] He then got paired up with Chris Paul and Deandre Jordan started to come into this own, and while the Clippers were now a playoff team, it wasn't because of Griffin, at least not to me. Chris Paul pushed that team to the playoffs. Deandre Jordan was the defensive and rebounding stalwart they needed. Griffin was there to dunk. Sure, he developed a mid range shot, but in the modern NBA, most people don't want mid range shooting. Teams want threes, which he cannot shoot or dunks, which he is only getting worse at. The Clippers never made the conference finals with him as their supposed star player.

https://www.seedsing.com/seedsing/2018/10/19/the-overrated-blake-griffin-is-finished-in-the-nba

[MartinToVaught]

"The Overrated Blake Griffin is Finished in the NBA"

Meanwhile, four years later, he's still firmly in the NBA. Imagine posting an article like that and expecting to be taken seriously.

[og15]

In line with you guys' discussion, this was hilarious:

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