Around the NBA II
Re: Around the NBA II
- esqtvd
- RealGM
- Posts: 10,969
- And1: 3,964
- Joined: Jun 24, 2017
- Location: LA LA LA LAND
- Contact:
Re: Around the NBA II
THIS is the problem with "developing talent" that isn't NBA-ready.
The Sixers have been educating and nursing Basketball Paul along for 3 years. G-League MVP 2 years ago. 10 mpg, 4 ppg, 4 rpg last year.
By the time he finally gets good enough to play consistent NBA minutes, you gotta PAY.
Same thing happened with the Clippers and 2nd-rounder DeAndre Jordan. Great "find" except the Dubs signed him as a RFA and we had to match $10M a year before he was worth even half that. One of the best picks in Clipper history at #35--and he was overpaid every step of the way.
The Sixers have been educating and nursing Basketball Paul along for 3 years. G-League MVP 2 years ago. 10 mpg, 4 ppg, 4 rpg last year.
By the time he finally gets good enough to play consistent NBA minutes, you gotta PAY.
Same thing happened with the Clippers and 2nd-rounder DeAndre Jordan. Great "find" except the Dubs signed him as a RFA and we had to match $10M a year before he was worth even half that. One of the best picks in Clipper history at #35--and he was overpaid every step of the way.
Are We Having Fun Yet?
Re: Around the NBA II
-
- Forum Mod - Clippers
- Posts: 47,828
- And1: 29,577
- Joined: Jun 23, 2004
- Location: NBA Fan
Re: Around the NBA II
DJ was a different level contract, Reed is cheap, remember we have to think of contracts relative to cap, not in a vacuum.
I wouldn't really call having to pay them a problem either, it's a benefit you get productive players for cheap for a while, it's one of the biggest bargains in the NBA, then you decide if you want to pay or not based on how good they are. You have to pay someone. If you don't think they are good enough, you don't pay them, and then you can spend on vet FA's who you think are better if you are able.
If you keep the pipeline of young players flowing, then you can have replacements as guys price out of your range. For example Denver couldn't pay Brown, but they luckily drafted the other Braun and it extends their ability to have a productive defensive bench player for another 3 seasons (even though they are a bit different skillsets). So now they can push off having to pay big for that type of player for another 3 seasons, and when that time comes they might have created some flexibility to be able to pay him, or they could find another young guy and keep the cycle going.
$7.7m/year is a few million below MLE. This is the equivalent of a $3-4 million contract back in 13-14 when the cap was $56 million. Current cap is $136 million, so about 2.44 times more.
DJ's contract would be an equivalent of around $24 million per year right now. It's always about deciding which contracts makes sense for a team or not.
I wouldn't really call having to pay them a problem either, it's a benefit you get productive players for cheap for a while, it's one of the biggest bargains in the NBA, then you decide if you want to pay or not based on how good they are. You have to pay someone. If you don't think they are good enough, you don't pay them, and then you can spend on vet FA's who you think are better if you are able.
If you keep the pipeline of young players flowing, then you can have replacements as guys price out of your range. For example Denver couldn't pay Brown, but they luckily drafted the other Braun and it extends their ability to have a productive defensive bench player for another 3 seasons (even though they are a bit different skillsets). So now they can push off having to pay big for that type of player for another 3 seasons, and when that time comes they might have created some flexibility to be able to pay him, or they could find another young guy and keep the cycle going.
$7.7m/year is a few million below MLE. This is the equivalent of a $3-4 million contract back in 13-14 when the cap was $56 million. Current cap is $136 million, so about 2.44 times more.
DJ's contract would be an equivalent of around $24 million per year right now. It's always about deciding which contracts makes sense for a team or not.
Re: Around the NBA II
- esqtvd
- RealGM
- Posts: 10,969
- And1: 3,964
- Joined: Jun 24, 2017
- Location: LA LA LA LAND
- Contact:
Re: Around the NBA II
og15 wrote:DJ was a different level contract, Reed is cheap, remember we have to think of contracts relative to cap, not in a vacuum.
I wouldn't really call having to pay them a problem either, it's a benefit you get productive players for cheap for a while, it's one of the biggest bargains in the NBA, then you decide if you want to pay or not based on how good they are. You have to pay someone. If you don't think they are good enough, you don't pay them, and then you can spend on vet FA's who you think are better if you are able.
If you keep the pipeline of young players flowing, then you can have replacements as guys price out of your range. For example Denver couldn't pay Brown, but they luckily drafted the other Braun and it extends their ability to have a productive defensive bench player for another 3 seasons (even though they are a bit different skillsets). So now they can push off having to pay big for that type of player for another 3 seasons, and when that time comes they might have created some flexibility to be able to pay him, or they could find another young guy and keep the cycle going.
$7.7m/year is a few million below MLE. This is the equivalent of a $3-4 million contract back in 13-14 when the cap was $56 million. Current cap is $136 million, so about 2.44 times more.
DJ's contract would be an equivalent of around $24 million per year right now. It's always about deciding which contracts makes sense for a team or not.
All true. The thing is, the first two years of these longshots is usually unproductive; if you're lucky, their third season is productive and you see some payoff. Paul Reed was only marginally productive for the Sixers in the last half of his third year. Yes, you get something of value for "cheap," but average it out, add in all the misses, and the numbers start to not be the bargain they appear to be.
And DJ was offered that big money--which he wasn't worth--by a somewhat desperate GSW based on potential, not production. The Clippers, equally desperate, matched. But DJ was overpaid for most of the years of his contracts with the Clippers.
And DJ was the greatest draft "steal" in our history!
Another case in point: Bol Bol. 2 teams, 1800 NBA minutes, and $6M in salary later, nothing. He will catch on somewhere and maybe even become a legit player NBA player someday, but the teams that helped develop him will have jackspit for their time, trouble and money.
Your example of Bruce Brown is another perfect case in point. Detroit [who drafted him at #42] and Brooklyn got little out of developing him. His 3rd year with the Nets was good [9 ppg], then he promptly left for Denver as a UFA. After giving the Nugs a VERY good return, he promptly opted out to go join his FOURTH team.
So far, the only real bargain was Denver signing him as a UFA. And they only got one year's worth. Now the Pacers will pay out $22 million a year and hope that a 11/4/3 guy will blossom into something worth that.
The "develop your own talent" mantra is a lot truer for baseball and the NFL, with their more restrictive labor arrangements and informal pay scales for different positions. In the NBA, a max contract guy can play any position as long as he's good. This makes for a much freer labor market, which favors the players, and the NBAPA has the players getting full market value [and more, lol] almost every step of the way.
Look, if you get a generational talent in the lottery and treat him nice, he'll probably stay. Maybe you'll hit a winner outside the lottery, but there aren't that many. After you get past the top 5 here, there's nothing to write home about.
https://www.betus.com.pa/nba/news/top-10-players-drafted-outside-of-the-lottery-since-2010/
The draft is no free lunch. As you dig through the history, productive young talent is more the work of trades and FA signings, often guys on their third or fourth team.
Are We Having Fun Yet?
Re: Around the NBA II
-
- Analyst
- Posts: 3,286
- And1: 1,775
- Joined: Jul 09, 2019
- Location: California
Re: Around the NBA II
- esqtvd
- RealGM
- Posts: 10,969
- And1: 3,964
- Joined: Jun 24, 2017
- Location: LA LA LA LAND
- Contact:
Re: Around the NBA II
Are We Having Fun Yet?
Re: Around the NBA II
- esqtvd
- RealGM
- Posts: 10,969
- And1: 3,964
- Joined: Jun 24, 2017
- Location: LA LA LA LAND
- Contact:
Re: Around the NBA II
Like Sam LoPresti, as long as David Griffin shuffles neverwases and wannabees and 1000 future draft picks, he will never be fired.
I suffered though Sam Hinkie's The Process--the 76ers going like 200-400 while they tanked for top FRPs and took on garbage contracts for even more draft picks. Look at them now. A gimpy Embiid and Harden [traded for Ben Simmons].
What a joke.
David Griffin Says Pelicans Never Had Trade Talks Involving Zion Williamson
Do you really think Zion Williamson will EVER lead a team to a title?? He makes Blake Griffin look like Bill Russell.
I suffered though Sam Hinkie's The Process--the 76ers going like 200-400 while they tanked for top FRPs and took on garbage contracts for even more draft picks. Look at them now. A gimpy Embiid and Harden [traded for Ben Simmons].
What a joke.
David Griffin Says Pelicans Never Had Trade Talks Involving Zion Williamson
Do you really think Zion Williamson will EVER lead a team to a title?? He makes Blake Griffin look like Bill Russell.
Are We Having Fun Yet?
Re: Around the NBA II
-
- Forum Mod - Clippers
- Posts: 47,828
- And1: 29,577
- Joined: Jun 23, 2004
- Location: NBA Fan
Re: Around the NBA II
Lead a team to a championship? I'd like to see him even lead a team to the playoffs. The one playoffs his team made he was in street clothes.
Look, injuries happen, not everyone is born with a body that can withstand NBA basketball. I'm not going to criticize a player for injuries happening to him, EXCEPT if the player is doing something egregiously bad like Zion's weight issues which are contributing to the injuries. Zion hasn't simply been a little overweight, he's had really bad weight issues, just very disappointing.
Zion has played 114 games in 4 seasons, 28.5 games/year. So sad. Are we saying he would be a 70+ game/season guy? No, but he certainly could be a 65 game/year guy who is able to be there in the playoffs.
Look, injuries happen, not everyone is born with a body that can withstand NBA basketball. I'm not going to criticize a player for injuries happening to him, EXCEPT if the player is doing something egregiously bad like Zion's weight issues which are contributing to the injuries. Zion hasn't simply been a little overweight, he's had really bad weight issues, just very disappointing.
Zion has played 114 games in 4 seasons, 28.5 games/year. So sad. Are we saying he would be a 70+ game/season guy? No, but he certainly could be a 65 game/year guy who is able to be there in the playoffs.
Re: Around the NBA II
- esqtvd
- RealGM
- Posts: 10,969
- And1: 3,964
- Joined: Jun 24, 2017
- Location: LA LA LA LAND
- Contact:
Re: Around the NBA II
og15 wrote:Lead a team to a championship? I'd like to see him even lead a team to the playoffs. The one playoffs his team made he was in street clothes.
Look, injuries happen, not everyone is born with a body that can withstand NBA basketball. I'm not going to criticize a player for injuries happening to him, EXCEPT if the player is doing something egregiously bad like Zion's weight issues which are contributing to the injuries. Zion hasn't simply been a little overweight, he's had really bad weight issues, just very disappointing.
Zion has played 114 games in 4 seasons, 28.5 games/year. So sad. Are we saying he would be a 70+ game/season guy? No, but he certainly could be a 65 game/year guy who is able to be there in the playoffs.
Yeah, Barkley is eternally grateful to Moses Malone and the other vets who told him to get his rookie butt in shape if he wanted to last in this game.
This is also why you need veteran leadership. You just can't throw a dozen rookies into the deep end of the pool and expect gold medals.
"You're gonna screw up your future" - Charles Barkley urges Zion Williamson to get back in shape
Charles Barkley thinks Zion Williamson has no one around him who cares enough to call him out for his weight issues.
"You know, this is professional basketball. We're not babysitters. To make the kind of money that these guys are making today, I don't think it's a lot to tell guys to get in shape," Barkley said. "Your family and friends should say, 'Yo man, you're gonna screw up your future.' And it's not fair to the Pelicans. It's not fair to the NBA. But the bottom line, he just gotta get in shape. Plain and simple. He just got to grow up."
https://www.basketballnetwork.net/latest-news/charles-barkley-urges-zion-williamson-to-grow-up-and-get-in-shape
Are We Having Fun Yet?
Re: Around the NBA II
-
- Forum Mod - Clippers
- Posts: 47,828
- And1: 29,577
- Joined: Jun 23, 2004
- Location: NBA Fan
Re: Around the NBA II
esqtvd wrote:og15 wrote:Lead a team to a championship? I'd like to see him even lead a team to the playoffs. The one playoffs his team made he was in street clothes.
Look, injuries happen, not everyone is born with a body that can withstand NBA basketball. I'm not going to criticize a player for injuries happening to him, EXCEPT if the player is doing something egregiously bad like Zion's weight issues which are contributing to the injuries. Zion hasn't simply been a little overweight, he's had really bad weight issues, just very disappointing.
Zion has played 114 games in 4 seasons, 28.5 games/year. So sad. Are we saying he would be a 70+ game/season guy? No, but he certainly could be a 65 game/year guy who is able to be there in the playoffs.
Yeah, Barkley is eternally grateful to Moses Malone and the other vets who told him to get his rookie butt in shape if he wanted to last in this game.
This is also why you need veteran leadership. You just can't throw a dozen rookies into the deep end of the pool and expect gold medals.
"You're gonna screw up your future" - Charles Barkley urges Zion Williamson to get back in shape
Charles Barkley thinks Zion Williamson has no one around him who cares enough to call him out for his weight issues."You know, this is professional basketball. We're not babysitters. To make the kind of money that these guys are making today, I don't think it's a lot to tell guys to get in shape," Barkley said. "Your family and friends should say, 'Yo man, you're gonna screw up your future.' And it's not fair to the Pelicans. It's not fair to the NBA. But the bottom line, he just gotta get in shape. Plain and simple. He just got to grow up."
https://www.basketballnetwork.net/latest-news/charles-barkley-urges-zion-williamson-to-grow-up-and-get-in-shape
CJ McCollum has supposedly tried, but the player also has to be willing to listen
Re: Around the NBA II
- esqtvd
- RealGM
- Posts: 10,969
- And1: 3,964
- Joined: Jun 24, 2017
- Location: LA LA LA LAND
- Contact:
Re: Around the NBA II
Sixers now have 5 1/2 centers. Daryl Morey must be some kind of genius.
Three years after being selected by the Sixers, Filip Petrušev has secured an NBA contract.
The Sixers are not currently short at all on frontcourt players; Paul Reed, Mo Bamba, Montrezl Harrell, and Petrušev are on the roster behind Joel Embiid. P.J. Tucker has substantial small-ball center experience, too.
Are We Having Fun Yet?
Re: Around the NBA II
- esqtvd
- RealGM
- Posts: 10,969
- And1: 3,964
- Joined: Jun 24, 2017
- Location: LA LA LA LAND
- Contact:
Re: Around the NBA II
esqtvd wrote:Sixers now have 5 1/2 centers. Daryl Morey must be some kind of genius.Three years after being selected by the Sixers, Filip Petrušev has secured an NBA contract.
The Sixers are not currently short at all on frontcourt players; Paul Reed, Mo Bamba, Montrezl Harrell, and Petrušev are on the roster behind Joel Embiid. P.J. Tucker has substantial small-ball center experience, too.
___________
ADD:
Montrezl's numbers last season were his lowest since his rookie year, but perhaps he will get an increased opportunity under new coach Nick Nurse, who seemed to favor tough, physical players while with the Raptors. Harrell undoubtedly fits such a description.
Makes no sense otherwise. Nurse's call.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/sixers-officially-re-sign-montrezl-harrell/ar-AA1e2bT6?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=354884470dae4cba90fb112546e0470e&ei=580
Are We Having Fun Yet?
Re: Around the NBA II
-
- Analyst
- Posts: 3,286
- And1: 1,775
- Joined: Jul 09, 2019
- Location: California
Re: Around the NBA II
- Dynamix
- Starter
- Posts: 2,056
- And1: 2,312
- Joined: Dec 26, 2011
- Location: Romania
Re: Around the NBA II
With all due respect, I'd take Doc over Mark Jackson any day of the week.
Re: Around the NBA II
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 10,502
- And1: 6,370
- Joined: Feb 13, 2014
Re: Around the NBA II
yeah, doc's actually great on tv, while mark jackson is the opposite
Re: Around the NBA II
- esqtvd
- RealGM
- Posts: 10,969
- And1: 3,964
- Joined: Jun 24, 2017
- Location: LA LA LA LAND
- Contact:
Re: Around the NBA II
ESPN/Disney are such pigs. Did they have to humiliate Mark Jackson like this? What, did they save a couple bucks by axing him now instead of letting him get lost in the shuffle and quietly fade into the background as the season approached?
https://www.si.com/nba/2023/08/01/mark-jackson-shares-message-for-espn-after-unexpected-layoff-nba-booth
I'm not a fan of Jackson's work as a commentator in the least, but as one of the near-greats of the game as a player [6th all-time in assists] and a winning NBA coach, you just don't kick him to the curb like that.
I see he had 2 years left on his contract but the news stories are saying he's been "laid off," like he's just the same as all the other casualties of the Disney meltdown. But of course he's not "laid off" since Doc's taking his place.
Anyway, I hope Jackson's getting paid in full.
https://www.si.com/nba/2023/08/01/mark-jackson-shares-message-for-espn-after-unexpected-layoff-nba-booth
Jackson released a statement on Monday night confirming the news.
“This morning, unexpectedly, I was informed that my services were no longer needed at ESPN,” the statement began. “Although shocked and dismayed with the suddenness of it all, I would like to thank ESPN and all the staff of the NBA ESPN crew for allowing me to be part of the organization for the past 15+ years. I would also like to thank the NBA fans watching at home and in the arenas throughout the league for all of your support. To the NBA, a heartfelt thank you for allowing a kid to continue to accomplish his dreams.
I'm not a fan of Jackson's work as a commentator in the least, but as one of the near-greats of the game as a player [6th all-time in assists] and a winning NBA coach, you just don't kick him to the curb like that.
I see he had 2 years left on his contract but the news stories are saying he's been "laid off," like he's just the same as all the other casualties of the Disney meltdown. But of course he's not "laid off" since Doc's taking his place.
Anyway, I hope Jackson's getting paid in full.
Are We Having Fun Yet?
Re: Around the NBA II
-
- Analyst
- Posts: 3,286
- And1: 1,775
- Joined: Jul 09, 2019
- Location: California
Re: Around the NBA II
- esqtvd
- RealGM
- Posts: 10,969
- And1: 3,964
- Joined: Jun 24, 2017
- Location: LA LA LA LAND
- Contact:
Re: Around the NBA II
Trevelin Queen is one of the great names in basketball history.
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/272775/Trevelin-Queen-Signs-One-Year-Deal-With-Magic
My personal favorite though, is Baskerville Holmes.
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/272775/Trevelin-Queen-Signs-One-Year-Deal-With-Magic
My personal favorite though, is Baskerville Holmes.
Are We Having Fun Yet?
Re: Around the NBA II
- esqtvd
- RealGM
- Posts: 10,969
- And1: 3,964
- Joined: Jun 24, 2017
- Location: LA LA LA LAND
- Contact:
Re: Around the NBA II
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 4,618
- And1: 1,712
- Joined: Feb 21, 2015
Re: Around the NBA II
- esqtvd
- RealGM
- Posts: 10,969
- And1: 3,964
- Joined: Jun 24, 2017
- Location: LA LA LA LAND
- Contact:
Return to Los Angeles Clippers