2018 NBA Draft Talk

[Quake Griffin]

Kevin Knox’s off ball game is ridiculous. It would be bettee if he didnt use it for 15-18 footers but it’s stilla crazy asset to have in your arsenal.


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[Ranma]

I know very little about him but that helps us no matter what, another mid-1st round pick potentially for us or to bounce another guy to us (twice since we have 2 mid 1st picks!!)

Ranma and Tucson are big on him.

I’m less thrilled given his physical profile but I want to learn a little more about him before I make a final judgment whether I like him as a pick.

It's actually Anfernee Simons, but it's my fault since I'm the one who kept calling him "Simmons" for whatever reason. The thing is there seems to be more "swing for the fences" prospects with more upside and higher ceilings than Simons throughout the first round in this draft class.

If you're looking at his current physical profile and maybe even his projection, he's really not going to measure up in terms of ceiling. However, he's considered a safe bet to be at least a solid pro and IMO has a good-to-decent chance of developing into a Ray Allen or Klay Thompson type shooting guard.

The problem is that some or maybe even most people are looking at him as a point guard prospect, which if that were the case, I wouldn't be sold on him at all. He's supposedly a legit 6'4" having gained maybe a quarter of an inch during this past season but I anticipate that he'll grow even more. It's all about projection with him, but the difference is that his makeup and mechanics seem to hold real promise with encouraging signs of development.

Right now, he's comparable to Austin Rivers as a combo guard. While he has handles and playmaking ability, I don't personally anticipate that to be his bread-and-butter as I consider his shooting and burgeoning athleticism to be his strengths. He's not as quick as Rivers and I doubt he'll ever reach that stage but he should be a better shooter than Doc Jr. Like Austin and Tony Parker when they respectively entered the NBA, Simons reportedly needs to work on his finishes at the rim. Also, I don't think he'll be an explosive leaper like a Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter or Anfernee Hardaway, which is partially why I've used the Allen and Thompson comps.

He'll need years of development so patience is required. I'm still high on Simons but I'll need to read more in-depth scouting reports on him, so my opinion can change, but his progress has been meeting my expectations so far since I thought he was a lock as a first-round pick and his declaration seems to confirm that he's gotten legitimate interest and promising feedback from NBA personnel evaluators. At the same time, it could be an impatient high school kid jumping the gun in making a hasty judgment call, but based on early reports, he's been mindful about making sure he's making the right decision. He's considered quite mature for someone in his age group, but so was Harrison Barnes.

[MartinToVaught]

It's bad enough that we have the real Austin Rivers. I certainly hope we don't use a first-round pick on the next Austin Rivers.

[wco81]

How is he getting into the draft directly out of high school?

[Forte IV]

How is he getting into the draft directly out of high school?

He's a 5th year Senior, having technically already graduated a year ago. So he's eligible because he's technically 19 and a year removed from graduating High School, which is the requirement.

[Ranma]

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[Forte IV]

I really like Zhaire Smith. Pretty much a Ty Wallace that potentially, key word here, can shoot.

[Quake Griffin]

I’m gonna draw a line here but I’m gonna do it because I have years of No 3 and D PTSD.

My threshold for a wing is 6’6” with arms longer than that. That is the rule for me. The 6’6” is for a 2 guard as well. It’s short for what I want at the 3.

Once you start going under 6’6”, I need to see reasons why you are the exception to the rule: long arms, athleticism, and skill set. Prove to me that at 6’4” you can guard Thompson, Booker, Middleton, Beal.

What I don’t want is a team full of exceptions to the rule (my rule) where we don’t have any natural athletic/length advantages on a night in, night out basis.

Simons imo may not be quick enough to be the 6’4” guard I take a shot at in the late lottery range.

Zhaire doesnt have the ball skills I’d like in a guard under 6’6” and has a slow release on his jumper, so I can’t even suggest that he could be a Danny Green type.


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[Quake Griffin]

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[Ranma]

I’m gonna draw a line here but I’m gonna do it because I have years of No 3 and D PTSD.

My threshold for a wing is 6’6” with arms longer than that. That is the rule for me. The 6’6” is for a 2 guard as well. It’s short for what I want at the 3.

Once you start going under 6’6”, I need to see reasons why you are the exception to the rule: long arms, athleticism, and skill set. Prove to me that at 6’4” you can guard Thompson, Booker, Middleton, Beal.

What I don’t want is a team full of exceptions to the rule (my rule) where we don’t have any natural athletic/length advantages on a night in, night out basis.

Simons imo may not be quick enough to be the 6’4” guard I take a shot at in the late lottery range.

Zhaire doesnt have the ball skills I’d like in a guard under 6’6” and has a slow release on his jumper, so I can’t even suggest that he could be a Danny Green type.

This is a good rule of thumb and similar to my own initial prerequisites in order to intrigue me for unknown prospects. This is similar to the tools and physical profiling we've previously discussed with regards to the Dodgers' draft philosophy under someone like, say Logan White.

The key is the exception to the rule you've pointed out where we have to be careful not to ignore things like intangibles that are a bit harder to define. Such consideration include things Travis Schlenk discussed when he and Jerry West worked together with the Warriors. I'm not sure if West shares the same exact philosphy as Schlenk, who is now the GM for the Hawks, but they seemed to agree more often than not based on previous interviews from both. West has even gone on record as to recommend him for a GM position.

Still, you've laid out a good checklist of things that should generally be looked out for, particularly, length (wingspan) that should be longer than a prospect's height measurement. Also, I agree with your notion of avoiding having a team full of the "exceptions to the rule" where we have a bunch of Eric Gordon's on the team. EJ by himself is a great player to have and certainly someone I wished was still on the Clippers, but we'd surround him with teammates with more length even though he was underrated as a defender. Pairing him with say J.J. Redick both in their respective primes would make for a dangerous offense on the floor, but ideally we'd make up for their respective lack of height and athleticism at the other positions whether it is at C, PF or even PG and on the bench, obviously.

It's bad enough that we have the real Austin Rivers. I certainly hope we don't use a first-round pick on the next Austin Rivers.

It's too early for me to make a strong case for Simons right now, especially given that I've acknowledged that this draft class is full of prospects with high ceilings due to athleticism and physical profile, but my comparison of him to Austin Rivers has more to do with Simons, as a prep prospect, being what Rivers is right now as a pro. Obviously, Simons is not as good as Rivers right now but my projection of him has him evolving beyond that into a Ray Allen type of player.

Like I said, I doubt he'll be as quick as Rivers, but he actually doesn't lack quickness. Simons looks to be a better shooter than Austin because he just has better mechanics than Doc Jr. and is anticipated to improve further as a player in development. Basically, Simons has a headstart on Austin despite Doc Jr. being the more celebrated high school prospect. Why? Because Simons has better fundamentals and mental makeup than Austin does even right now despite Doc's boy being the son of a coach.

While we're unlikely to see Rivers improve significantly more right from this point on, Simons still has plenty of projection left in him and quite possibly will grow even taller to exceed Austin, which is part of why I anticipate for his game to evolve into a different type of player than what Doc Jr. is right now. Simons is already a better leaper than Austin and will improve athletically with more physical development likely to come.

To touch on Quake's concern above about Simons' length, NBAdraft.net notes that his wingspan was 6'7" with a standing reach of 8'2" when he was 6'3.5". I've also heard that he has good length from a couple of reports from people who've watched him in person. Plus, he's supposedly a legitimate 6'4" now, which if true, indicates that he's not finished growing.

Again, more research needs to be done, especially with regards to his measurables, but I wouldn't readily dismiss Simons as an Austin Rivers clone. Do you honestly think that I would advocate for drafting Simons if that were the case?


p.s. Mikal Bridges and Anfernee Simons also remind me a lot of Justise Winslow and D'Angelo Russell when I advocated for both of them early on for the 2015 NBA Draft. To be clear, I'm not saying Bridges or Simons is as good of a prospect as either Winslow or Russell when they declared for the draft, but I see quite a few elements that correspond respectively to Bridges and Simons.

[Ranma]

Despite the great defensive play on Mikal Bridges' dunk attempt, I like how Bridges was fearless in taking it to the rim particularly in recognizing that the defender had 3 fouls on him. Not only that but he took off from a good bit of distance and still had plenty of elevation to slam it home if it weren't for the block. On top of that, Bridges readily collected himself to head back the other way to play defense rather than sulk about the missed highlight opportunity. I give the kid high marks for that.

[Ranma]

How is he getting into the draft directly out of high school?

He's a 5th year Senior, having technically already graduated a year ago. So he's eligible because he's technically 19 and a year removed from graduating High School, which is the requirement.

Yeah, Simons has been playing at IMG Academy for the past year as he contemplated whether to go to college as an overaged freshman or declaring for the NBA draft. He's been honing his skills and focusing on his physical development to improve his draft stock while delaying his decision on school.

Note in the video tweeted below how Seth Greenberg describes Simons, who was named after Penny Hardway (one of my favorite talents of all time), as an "extremely quick, explosive" athlete and, as a prospect, he has "transitional size, length, athleticism and skill" when he called for people to be patient with him as he anticipates Simons to be a good NBA player.

It's also mentioned that Simons is 19th overall in ESPN's current mock draft for 2018, which is done by Draft Express.

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Edit: Added excerpts from an article by DX founder regarding Simons' declaration for the NBA draft.

Jonathan Givony, ESPN.com (3/22/18)

Simons, a top-10 high school recruit according to the ESPN 100, is eligible for the 2018 draft as a postgraduate, being one year removed from his high school graduation and turning 19 in June, thus satisfying NBA requirements. He spent his fifth year of high school at IMG Academy in Bradenton, Florida, and was recently named to the prestigious Nike Hoop Summit and Jordan Brand Classic events.

While physically underdeveloped and likely a ways away from contributing at the NBA level, he's considered one of the most athletic guard prospects in the class. He has significant scoring potential due to his terrific shooting range, particularly off the dribble. NBA scouts who have watched Simons play told ESPN they view him as a mid-to-late first-round prospect, with the potential to move up with strong showings at the Nike Hoop Summit and Jordan Brand Classic and in private workouts.

Simons informed ESPN that he will sign with agent Bobby Petriella of Rosenhaus Sports Representation, a new entry in the basketball agency world, founded by prominent NFL agent Drew Rosenhaus.

Simons will spend the pre-draft process in Miami, working out with trainer Justin Zormelo.

Anfernee Simons Declares for NBA Draft, Forgoing Collegiate Eligibility

[MartinToVaught]

The latest NBADraft.net mock has us taking Mikal Bridges at 12 and Miles Bridges at 13. Too bad they aren't related, that would be a hell of a story.

[Ranma]

Again, more research needs to be done, especially with regards to his measurables, but I wouldn't readily dismiss Simons as an Austin Rivers clone. Do you honestly think that I would advocate for drafting Simons if that were the case?

...I'm going to have to walk back what I just posted above a little bit. Thinking about it some more, I think Grayson Allen is similar to what Austin Rivers is and will be in the NBA and I've considered drafting him for the Clippers in the past. However, that doesn't mean that I would select him with either one of our 2 current first-round picks or that I even like him now given his recent transgressions on the court.

Given that it's early in the draft process, particularly for armchair evaluation, I have to acknowledge that, yes, theoretically I would be open to drafting a player in a mold similar to either Grayson Allen and Austin Rivers. Excuse me. I think I threw up a bit in my mouth after typing that.

[Forte IV]

I'm starting to think we should only go for wings in the draft. That's our biggest flaw, is our wing depth. We have guards, we have bigs, just no 3s/combo forwards

[esqtvd]

I'm starting to think we should only go for wings in the draft. That's our biggest flaw, is our wing depth. We have guards, we have bigs, just no 3s/combo forwards

Yah. That's what was behind the desperation Jeff Green move and why ORL signed him away for $15M--and why even now, the Cavs give him 20+ mpg.

Why Boston passed over 6'4" combo guard Markelle Fultz for 6'8" Jayson Tatum. These guys are gold. If we had had Tobias during the CP/BG era I think we make the WCFs easy. Or more.

We were always a bullet short. That bullet. Ah, what might have been.

[MartinToVaught]

I'm starting to think we should only go for wings in the draft. That's our biggest flaw, is our wing depth. We have guards, we have bigs, just no 3s/combo forwards

That's what I've been thinking all season. Draft wings with our two first-round picks and buy a second-round pick to draft another wing. You can never have enough two-way wings.

[Ranma]

In a particularly peculiar move, especially coming so soon after his declaration for the draft, Anfernee Simons' camp has pulled him from both the Nike Hoop Summit and Jordan Brand Classic. Now I could possibly argue that he's received a promise from a team drafting in the first round on the condition that he not showcase himself further and risk another team taking him earlier, but it is just not realistic at such an early stage particularly with the surrounding circumstances I've gathered so far.

Shutting Simons down when he hasn't even stood out in recent high school events and before being seen by all NBA decision-makers indicate to me that his agent is shielding him from relatively poor play or an injury. Plus, committing to a promise seems like a bad strategy for both parties if the prospect is confident in his abilities. Remember Yaroslav Korolev? So much can happen before a draft with players unexpectedly becoming available at a particular draft slot or a prime prospect having tremendous helium in a rapid rise up the draft board with the accompanying bigger NBA contract.

I'll have to look into this some more, but this doesn't look like an encouraging sign for Simons right now. I get that he's a raw prospect with high upside, so he and his agent could be content with a certain team's particular plan to develop him in the G-League or something, but the fact that he hasn't elevated himself on the prep scene since his graduation seems to indicate otherwise.

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Jonathan Givony, ESPN.com (3/25/18)

The move comes as somewhat of a surprise, as Simons has yet to be seen by all NBA decision-makers. He did not play particularly well in some of the high school events in which he was widely evaluated by NBA scouts as a member of Florida's IMG Academy. Simons scored just 10 points in a season-ending loss to Tilton School (New Hampshire) in the National Prep Championship quarterfinals earlier this month.

Simons is an explosive athlete who plays above the rim with incredible ease, and he has shot 42 percent from 3-point range on 440 attempts recorded in 85 games throughout his career.

Anfernee Simons Withdraws from Nike Hoop Summit, Jordan Brand Classic Showcase Events

[Quake Griffin]

Again, more research needs to be done, especially with regards to his measurables, but I wouldn't readily dismiss Simons as an Austin Rivers clone. Do you honestly think that I would advocate for drafting Simons if that were the case?

...I'm going to have to walk back what I just posted above a little bit. Thinking about it some more, I think Grayson Allen is similar to what Austin Rivers is and will be in the NBA and I've considered drafting him for the Clippers in the past. However, that doesn't mean that I would select him with either one of our 2 current first-round picks or that I even like him now given his recent transgressions on the court.

Given that it's early in the draft process, particularly for armchair evaluation, I have to acknowledge that, yes, theoretically I would be open to drafting a player in a mold similar to either Grayson Allen and Austin Rivers. Excuse me. I think I threw up a bit in my mouth after typing that.

Oh God. I was just beginning to enjoy the peace and quiet. Dealing with all the “Flop City” hate over the years was tiresome. Drafting him would make the General Discussion Board unbearable for Clipper fans.

He does actually seem mentally tough enough to handle being hated though. I just wonder if he’d have the respect of all his teammates.




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[madmaxmedia]

Holy crap I hate that guy