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2018 NBA Draft Talk

Moderators: og15, TrueLAfan

What do you predict the Clippers will do on Draft Night? (vote for up to 2 options)

Poll ended at Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:37 am

Remain at 12 & 13
7
39%
Trade up into the 3-6 range
2
11%
Trade up into the 7-9 range
0
No votes
Trade down
2
11%
Buy into the 2nd round
7
39%
Trade picks to acquire a big name
0
No votes
Danilo Gallinari is traded
0
No votes
Tobias Harris is traded
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 18

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Re: 2018 NBA Draft Talk 

Post#361 » by TucsonClip » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:09 pm

Dunken Dave wrote:The Detroit is top 4 protected, which means if Detroit moves into the top 3 we won't get the pick this year. Really would love for the Clippers' pick to wind up in the top 3----opens up so many possibilities-----move down via trade or stay put. I think we need wing players but the guy who would best for us is Mikal Bridges------he won't be there at 12/13. Zhaire Smith, depending on work effort, will turn out to be an excellent player; doesn't force the game and will be a top notch defender----his offensive game will grow tremendously as he's still very young. I really like Hutchinson as well------he's a worker that has greatly improved in college.


Im all about swinging for the fences with 12 and 13. But if we were able to trade up for Bridges, that would be amazing.
Plus, why would I want to go to the NBA? Duke players suck in the pros.

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ESPN's Mock Lottery Tool 

Post#362 » by Ranma » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:41 pm

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Re: 2018 NBA Draft Talk 

Post#363 » by MartinToVaught » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:39 pm

Looks like they have us drafting Ayton over Doncic if we miraculously win the lottery with our pick. Can't go wrong either way, but I feel like Doncic would be more of a Jerry West type of player.

If we pick #2, they have us drafting Doncic. At #3, they have us drafting Bagley.
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Uehara's Scouting Report on Miles Bridges 

Post#364 » by Ranma » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:06 pm

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Ordered Possibilities of ESPN's Lottery Generator 

Post#365 » by Ranma » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:48 am

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Nature vs. Nurture 

Post#366 » by Ranma » Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:38 pm

TrueLAfan wrote:Count me in on Gilgeous-Alexander. I’ve read a couple of commentaries that ask whether he’s a “true” PG. Maybe it’s because of his size. This is a guy who averaged over 5 assists a game as a freshman with an A/TO ratio of close to 2:1. The final point for me is how he improved over the course of the season, and what it meant for the team. People forget that, in February. Kentucky lost four in a row and was far from being considered a lock to even make the tournament. Gilgeous-Alexander played well in the losses—14.5 ppg, 5.7 apg—but he ramped it up to get the team into the tournament and in the tournament itself. In the last 11 games of the season, against high quality opposition, he put up 17.8 ppg, 5.2 rpg, and 6.5 apg, on 49/48/84. Ran the offense, led the team--as an 18 year old that doesn't turn 19 until late July.

The thing is, we’ve got this glut at the G position where we’ve got lots of players, but none of them is a great or even very good player—which Gilgeous-Alexander really could end up being. Now, we have a case where having so many players is really bad. Consider what we’ve got—

Lou—Bench player, one dimensional—but very good at what he does. Good contract.
Bradley—Good player coming off a bad year. FA. Like almost all of our guards, small. Combo guard, questionable decision making at times. Good defender. Could get good contract for trade.
Milos—Useful when he plays; a true point. Older, injured a lot. We only got 1150 minutes out of him last year. Not what you would call a building block.
Beverly—Looked good before his injury; seems like he wants to stay and be a leader. Great contract. Small, pesky, good defender and rebounder.
Austin—He is what he is. Would be useful on a team as a 3rd or 4th guard. Can play either guard slot, has some skills without being particularly skilled. Polarizing. Overpaid.
Evans—Has upside. Needs work in a lot of areas.
Thornwell—Has upside; already gets minutes as a 3 and D guy. Lacks offensive game. Upside?
Williams—See Thornwell.

That’s eight players, which is—really—three or four too many for players of the caliber. And, like I said, the bigger issue is that none of those player is a star. You can get away with starting a mediocre or one dimensional guy if your other guard is someone like Ben Simmons. We don’t have that. We have a glut of mediocrity and players whose skills aren’t really complimentary.

Several of our players have trade value, particularly Lou, Beverly, and a resigned Bradley. I’d like to keep the first two and go for Gilgeous-Alexander. I‘m not as big on Milos as some others here…I just can’t see a 31 year old European player with an injury history being a cornerstone. Thing is, if we packaged a couple/few of our guards with good contracts for a $15-25 million player, we could get someone useful—and we could go after someone who would help us more.


It's great to hear from you here, TrueLAfan! Hopefully, we'll be treated to more of your posts in the future.

I've watched some video clips on Gilgeous-Alexander last night and I'll say that he's adept at the hesitation dribble to shift gears while showing a fondness for the Euro-step in drives to the basket. His finishing ability and perimeter shot needs work, but his game and body require projection to justify a lottery selection as he's far from a finished product. He's also shown glimpses of solid playmaking ability, especially on his drives to the hoop but I still don't see a natural playmaker in him. Like I said, I don't think he'll ever be as good as Shaun Livingston because of those lack of innate instincts. Maybe he'll be a better version of Michael Carter-Williams but MCW was much more polished as a playmaker as a college sophomore than SGA as a freshman on a deeper Kentucky team.

It may be unfair to compare the two and the statistics you cited are impressive, but it seems a lot to anticipate that Shai will have a similar impact coming into the league as Michael did. Right now, I still see him more as developing into a capable utility player off the bench, but he certainly has raw ability to do more.

I agree with you about our current backcourt situation and I neglected to include Milos Teodosic in my initial assessment, but like you said, he's not the long-term answer given his age and inability to stay healthy thus far. Since the PG position carries the burden of playmaking and facilitating as the floor general, I prefer my point guards to have natural, if not preternatural, instincts for the position while also providing at least solid defense, which again is why I advocated strongly for trading for Ricky Rubio when he was available, who only cost the Jazz OKC's lottery-protected 2018 first-round pick. I'd even make due with someone like Jrue Holiday, which is why keeping Patrick Beverley makes sense to me for now unless we're offered a deal we just can't refuse.

As I said, I'm just lacking confidence overall in this draft class for a long-term answer to be found for the Clippers. Trevon Duval arguably has the best profile for what I want out of a PG in this draft class and he's far from perfect right now. I was high on Duval as a 2017 McDonald's All-American and consensus 5-star recruit given his playmaking ability, athleticism, and length in a 6'2" frame. However, he's disappointed thus far at Duke with inconsistent play, questionable decision-making and a lacking perimeter game with shot mechanics that have not shown much of any progress towards improvement as a college freshman. Duval currently projects to be a late first-round or second-round pick.

Personally, I'm more inclined to nab Duval in the second round (if we somehow acquire one) as a reclamation project with tools than I am to spend a lottery pick on Gilgeous-Alexander, but I'm going against consensus opinion at the moment.
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Re: Nature vs. Nurture 

Post#367 » by TrueLAfan » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:50 pm

Ranma wrote:It's great to hear from you here, TrueLAfan! Hopefully, we'll be treated to more of your posts in the future.

I've watched some video clips on Gilgeous-Alexander last night and I'll say that he's adept at the hesitation dribble to shift gears while showing a fondness for the Euro-step in drives to the basket. His finishing ability and perimeter shot needs work, but his game and body require projection to justify a lottery selection as he's far from a finished product. He's also shown glimpses of solid playmaking ability, especially on his drives to the hoop but I still don't see a natural playmaker in him. Like I said, I don't think he'll ever be as good as Shaun Livingston because of those lack of innate instincts. Maybe he'll be a better version of Michael Carter-Williams but MCW was much more polished as a playmaker as a college sophomore than SGA as a freshman on a deeper Kentucky team.

It may be unfair to compare the two and the statistics you cited are impressive, but it seems a lot to anticipate that Shai will have a similar impact coming into the league as Michael did. Right now, I still see him more as developing into a capable utility player off the bench, but he certainly has raw ability to do more.

I agree with you about our current backcourt situation and I neglected to include Milos Teodosic in my initial assessment, but like you said, he's not the long-term answer given his age and inability to stay healthy thus far. Since the PG position carries the burden of playmaking and facilitating as the floor general, I prefer my point guards to have natural, if not preternatural, instincts for the position while also providing at least solid defense, which again is why I advocated strongly for trading for Ricky Rubio when he was available, who only cost the Jazz OKC's lottery-protected 2018 first-round pick. I'd even make due with someone like Jrue Holiday, which is why keeping Patrick Beverley makes sense to me for now unless we're offered a deal we just can't refuse.

As I said, I'm just lacking confidence overall in this draft class for a long-term answer to be found for the Clippers. Trevon Duval arguably has the best profile for what I want out of a PG in this draft class and he's far from perfect right now. I was high on Duval as a 2017 McDonald's All-American and consensus 5-star recruit given his playmaking ability, athleticism, and length in a 6'2" frame. However, he's disappointed thus far at Duke with inconsistent play, questionable decision-making and a lacking perimeter game with shot mechanics that have not shown much of any progress towards improvement as a college freshman. Duval currently projects to be a late first-round or second-round pick.

Personally, I'm more inclined to nab Duval in the second round (if we somehow acquire one) as a reclamation project with tools than I am to spend a lottery pick on Gilgeous-Alexander, but I'm going against consensus opinion at the moment.


Thanks for the kind words, Ranma. We’re still diehard Clipper fans. :o

I agree with you to some extent about Alexander. I don’t know if he’s a 7-10 apg guy (supernatural passer); he could be, but he’s probably not. But I can see his ceiling being a somewhat better Tyreke Evans—less of a scorer, but better range and better D and better leadership (and, knock on wood, fewer injuries). One thing we all need to remember is that the chances of getting a superstar at #12 or #13—even in a deep draft—are not good. But I do think Alexander’s ceiling is fairly achievable given his age and physical/mental makeup. A 16/4/6 guy that shot and defended pretty well would be a valuable player. It’s nice to dream about drafting the next Kobe or MJ—but I’d be very, very happy to get the next Derek Harper, and that’s more possible in this case.

I totally agree about Beverley, who is a flawed but useful player—and wants to be here. Notice that neither of us are really talking about Bradley. There are aspects of his game I like, but I continue to see his value to us being a sign-and-trade piece. Bradley was talking about asking for $16 million at the beginning of the year; I feel for him. He had a bad, injury riddled year and he’s going into free agency in a year where few teams are more than the MLE under the cap…and I’m sure that’s where he’d like to be. Still, you have to think that a 27 year old two-time All-D player that is one season removed from being a rising star on a good to very good team has value. I think he does—just not for us as a player. But in a sign-and-trade? The name of Bradley Beal has been tossed around. Beal is better than any SG we have because … well, he just is. He’s probably worth his salary. Is he worth it to Washington, who has Satoransky on board … and had Jodie Meeks play 77 games as a rotation player? Would Bradley and the expiring contract of Austin be tempting to them given their financial situation?

I hear you about Duval; I wish his shot would come around. The FT% makes me worry. Of course, if it did, he’d be a lottery pick. My sleeper pick is Jontay Porter. He skipped his final year of high school to play alongside his brother, so he’s the youngest person in the draft. He’s moving up on boards now, unfortunately—I think he’s going to be a very good player in just a couple of years. 6’11”, 240, good rim protector, hits threes, passes well … as a 17 year old.
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Ayton Versus Doncic 

Post#368 » by Ranma » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:55 am

Quake Griffin wrote:But seriously, what do we do if we land in the 1,2, and 3 slots?

I've not given it much thought since we weren't taking tbh.
I wouldn't know what to do with it if we had it.

Ayton if top 2?
Luka?

Trade back with a crappy organization for their top pick and next year's 1st unprotected?

TucsonClip wrote:My draft board would be:

1. Ayton
2. Doncic
3. Jackson Jr. / Bagley / Bamba

I can dive deeper into my scouting reports on them, perhaps at a later date. However, once we get to that third choice(s) it all depends on what we want to do with DJ.

Jackson Jr. would spend time next to him on the floor after we see his jumper continue to develop, but hes a modern day, two-way center, albeit much better defensively.

Bagley isnt going to provide much defensively, but plays his ass off, I think he has more off the bounce game than he was able to show at Duke, and a stud rebounder/athlete.

Bamba is the shoot for the moon replacement for DJ.

I obviously love Ayton, but we provide a great opportunity for Doncic to thrive. He would be able to share ball handling duties with guys like Bev and Lou, would be our ace PNR creator, and I think his jumper/spotting up off the ball is going to play quite well with some fine tuning.

MartinToVaught wrote:Looks like they have us drafting Ayton over Doncic if we miraculously win the lottery with our pick. Can't go wrong either way, but I feel like Doncic would be more of a Jerry West type of player.

If we pick #2, they have us drafting Doncic. At #3, they have us drafting Bagley.


This is an interesting thought exercise as I'm actually surprised there hasn't been more of a consensus in favor of Deandre Ayton going 1st overall in the ESPN mock lottery generator. Both Ayton and Luka Doncic present risks for different reasons. Ayton for his inconsistent focus and drive and Doncic for his relative lack of athleticism compared to NBA players, however, you have to think Doncic is the safer proposition of the two prospects given his experience and success overseas as a youngster playing against men in high-level professional leagues.

While Doncic has been compared to other Euroean players like Toni Kukoc and Hidayet Turkoglu, I see him more as a Gordon Haywood type of player given his all-around ability and aptitude for defense, though the Hedo comparison is fair as well with regards to his offensive skill set. I also envision his NBA career trajectory to be similar to Ricky Rubio's in terms of adjustment but with quicker acclimation.

However, Ayton has physical tools, athletic ability and even a skill set quite similar to David Robinson's, but he's lacking in the Admiral's commitment and character. There's concern that he might get comfortable and coast once he gets his big-money contract, but there hasn't been a blatant red flag like when Hasheem Thabeet came out and said that he looked forward to the NBA lifestyle more than anything else while also snubbing the Grizzlies by refusing to work out for them prior to the 2009 NBA Draft. Despite that, Memphis still selected ThaBust over James Harden and Ricky Rubio; Stephen Curry was also available in that class, by the way.

We'd have to rely on our front office to do the proper vetting on his maturity and mindset, but having access to Jerry West should alleviate such concerns. With that said, Ayton has the potential to be a Hall-of-Fame talent with attributes that can't be taught. Such propositions are rarely presented even with 1st overall picks. It's possible that he could be the next Michael Olowokandi, Yinka Dare or Benoit Benjamin, but I have less concerns about Ayton than I did with Ben Simmons prior to the 2016 draft when I questioned his toughness and drive.

Doncic might be the safer pick, but it'd be too hard for me to pass up on Ayton's tantalizing potential when he could turn out to be a player similar to the HOFer who dropped 71 points on us 24 years ago yesterday. There is inherent risk with every draft pick, but sometimes the possible reward is just worth the gamble.


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My personal top-3 draft board would be:

  1. Deandre Ayton
  2. Luka Doncic
  3. Marvin Bagley III
Bagley's position at 3rd overall is not on as solid a footing as my top 2 picks, but for now, I really like his physique, non-stop motor, explosive athleticism and versatile offensive abilities despite his relative lack of length for a player his size. The funny thing is, despite my high regard for these three prospects, I'm not really "in love" with any of them...at least not yet. The closest players I have such sentiment for are Mikal Bridges and (potentially) Anfernee Simons but I wouldn't spend a top-3 pick on either of those two prospects. I've even reached a point of genuinely contemplating trading both the 12th and 13th overall picks in order to ensure drafting Mikal but it's a fleeting fancy since the value proposition would be absurdly out of whack...but I digress.

With regard to the idea of trading down from the top 3 picks, I'd be open to it except for the 1st overall and maybe the 2nd, depending on the offer, which is weird since like I said, I'm not really attached to either player. Maybe it's because we don't have a realistic chance of securing a top-3 pick.

This contrasts my feelings during the 1998 NBA Draft when the Clippers had the 1st overall pick back then and Olowokandi and Mike Bibby were projected to be the top 2 picks. While I did have faith that not even Elgin Baylor could mess things up at that point, I really wanted to trade down with Denver for their 3rd overall pick at the time in order to select Vince Carter, who was my favorite prospect in that draft class. That crop of talent also yielded Dirk Nowitzki and Paul Pierce. The Nuggets were known to have been interested in the Kandi Man but Baylor still went with his tired approach of predominantly drafting big men over smaller skilled players.

Even with Mikal Bridges, I don't see how it'd be worth trading down from the top-2 spots for other players in the same class unless there was a package that included other assets outside of this draft such as multiple future unprotected first-round picks and/or young, established NBA players.
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2020 Vision of None and Done 

Post#369 » by Ranma » Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:59 pm

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Re: 2018 NBA Draft Talk 

Post#370 » by ejftw » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:09 pm

#2020Tank for Johnny Juzang, Josh Green, Kyree Walker and Lamont Butler will commence.
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Re: 2018 NBA Draft Talk 

Post#371 » by esqtvd » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:29 am

ejftw wrote:#2020Tank for Johnny Juzang, Josh Green, Kyree Walker and Lamont Butler will commence.


With only a 40% chance of landing in the top 3, tanking won't be what it used to be.


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Re: 2020 Vision of None and Done 

Post#372 » by TucsonClip » Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:14 am

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Havent brought it up much here, but I have been hearing for months this is a done deal. The hope was it would be negotiated in time for the 2019 draft. Either way, this is happening, and many people in the business have been preparing for it over the last year or so.
Plus, why would I want to go to the NBA? Duke players suck in the pros.

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Re: 2018 NBA Draft Talk 

Post#373 » by QRich3 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:26 am

Hopefully it means they start promoting the G-League much more. Letting it slowly become a place where raw elite prospects coming out of high school get playing time while they get ready for the NBA should be the focus here, and let the NCAA become a place for guys who are unlikely to ever go pro, as it should be.
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Re: 2018 NBA Draft Talk 

Post#374 » by wco81 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:49 pm

I'm no fan of the NCAA but G-League can't draw the attendance or ratings of the top NCAA programs.

So if the idea is to park these blue chip players for a year or two in the G-League instead of the bench of an NBA team or for one year at a top NCAA program, it would be a missed opportunity to monetize that talent.

Of course the problem with one and done is that the schools and the coaches keep all that money. Players get a scholarship so they could come back to finish their degree, even if they leave the program. But they're getting ripped off by the NCAA, which would rather lose players to the NBA or the G-Leagu than have to pay them.

Because if they paid the star players, inevitably they'd have to play all players.
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Re: 2018 NBA Draft Talk 

Post#375 » by QRich3 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:10 pm

Top talent would get playing time in the NBA too, the idea would be to alternate that with the G-League, get NBA-level coaching focused in long term development, as opposed to it focusing in winning the NCAA now, and getting eased into professional sports, instead of being thrown into a billion dollar industry that forbids them from having a normal adult life in so many aspects.

You can see it as a missed opportunity to monetize their talent, I see it as investing in preparing for when they really are gonna be able to squeeze the most of it.

The NBA should be focusing in what's best for the NBA, and that's those players in their prime. They shouldn't be focusing in the missed opportunity of cashing in on teenagers that are not really ready for most of that stuff imo.

Then the NCAA can focus into how better monetize the players that still choose to go their route.
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Uehara's Scouting Report on Marvin Bagley, III 

Post#376 » by Ranma » Tue May 1, 2018 3:50 pm

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Wheeler's Scouting Report on Jontay Porter + One-and-Done EWA Rankings 

Post#377 » by Ranma » Wed May 2, 2018 7:50 pm

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Uehara's Scouting Report on Shai Gilgeous-Alexander 

Post#378 » by Ranma » Tue May 8, 2018 2:10 pm

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Russo Discusses Zhaire Smith & Shai Gilgeous-Alexander 

Post#379 » by Ranma » Thu May 10, 2018 7:09 am

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Re: 2018 NBA Draft Talk 

Post#380 » by TrueLAfan » Thu May 10, 2018 2:47 pm

Another thing to consider about Jontay Porter is that he decided to forego his senior year of high school to play with his brother. So the “very impressive statistical profile, as he averaged 16.1 points, 11.1 rebounds, 3.7 assists and 2.7 blocks per 40 minutes” that the scouting report notes was achieved by a (just turned) 18 year old--he turned 18 in mid-November. Stop and think about that for a second. Think about what an extra year means at that age. He’s the youngest person in the draft. He’s supposed to be going into his freshman year now. Here's a comparison--Miles Bridges is a lottery pick, and a young player; barely 20. He's nearly two years older than Jontay Porter. Imagine what Jontay Porter would/will look like in two years. In two years, at the beginning of his third NBA season, Porter will be 20. Upside, upside, upside.

This is also why I’m a little bit leery of the “not that athletic or quick” label hung on him. It’s the same tag that’s placed on Wendell Carter (another player I really like and that I think will be a productive pro). You can’t add a whole lot of athleticism at 21 or 22, but you sure can at 17 or 18. And I’m not sure how the supposed lack of quicks/athleticism hurts him that much. For one thing, I live in Columbia, MO, and I watched Jontay Porter play a lot. He blocks shots, defends and rebounds well, and hits threes. He’s fluid out there, which results in what the report describes as “awareness” and “instinct.” An athletic big that lacks skills and instincts may never pick them up, or will lose athletic gifts later. I’m kinda liking a guy who’s got enough awareness and basketball smarts to be very productive as a very young 18 year old. I think he’s got at least as good of a chance to get a little quicker/stronger as Robert Williams does to be a smart, instinctive player.

The scouting ends with a comparison to Kelly Olynyk—and Olynyk is a nice player. But I think that’s off. Olynyk played three years of college ball and redshirted a year in the middle to bulk up. His senior year at Gonzaga was essentially equal to Porter’s only college year—except, again, Jontay Porter was barely 18 years old, while Kelly Olynyk was 21. I think a better idea of Porter’s comps/ceiling is, maybe, Myles Turner—who’s one and out year is pretty much the same as Porter’s was. Turner is more “athletic”—Porter is more instinctive. If it turns out that Jontay Porter has some huge physical discrepancy, then maybe good instincts aren’t enough. But if he’s as mobile as he seems to be and has a wingspan of over 7’…well, I’ve liked the kid from the start.
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