2016 NBA Draft

[QRich3]

Teams with smart management get stuck 5+ years in rebuild phase all the time. When/if that happens to the Clippers, people like MTV will just attribute it to more incompetence from whoever is Doc's successor, like it was just so easy but ineptitude wasted it all away. People like him love to call ineptitude in everything that doesn't go their way, but the truth is they don't have the capacity to analyze what a rebuild means compared to what we have now.

You see what one year of Ibaka got on the open market? We wouldnt have even had to trade the entire Big Three....just one of em could have yielded us a whole lot and it wouldn't even be like starting over.


People keep championing building around this core but our 2 stars can opt out and play elsewhere after next year. We need something for ourselves as a franchise and Doc backed us into this position by burning assets. I'd take 2 stars (with the potential of one leaving next year) + assets over 3 stars (2 with the potential to leave next year) and no assets....nvm that it would free us up to take a run at FAs this summer.

Sam Presti has the same problems as us.
Lmao. Yeah right. He just beat the Warriors 3 more times than we have in 2 years and pulled off a heist in the draft that has everybody looking at Durant like, "if you leave, you're stupid as hell or hate Westbrick."

I really don't see it the same way. Ibaka was probably the biggest key in why they won 3 games against the Warriors, and the biggest reason (other than Durant) why they always give the Spurs problems. I think it's a clear step back for them and they'll suffer for it next year. I wouldn't trade Blake for Oladipo and a late lottery pick either, that'd also be a step back in my book. Far from a heist imo.

And you can't make moves with the idea that all of your free agents might leave, specially not if you're trying to win a championship. If you do that, you're only gonna have a constant retread of rookie contracts that never get to reach their prime with you. Blake and DJ are all-NBA players just entering their prime, you don't trade that sort of guys away unless you plan on taking a step back. Never.

[Quake Griffin]

Teams with smart management get stuck 5+ years in rebuild phase all the time. When/if that happens to the Clippers, people like MTV will just attribute it to more incompetence from whoever is Doc's successor, like it was just so easy but ineptitude wasted it all away. People like him love to call ineptitude in everything that doesn't go their way, but the truth is they don't have the capacity to analyze what a rebuild means compared to what we have now.

You see what one year of Ibaka got on the open market? We wouldnt have even had to trade the entire Big Three....just one of em could have yielded us a whole lot and it wouldn't even be like starting over.


People keep championing building around this core but our 2 stars can opt out and play elsewhere after next year. We need something for ourselves as a franchise and Doc backed us into this position by burning assets. I'd take 2 stars (with the potential of one leaving next year) + assets over 3 stars (2 with the potential to leave next year) and no assets....nvm that it would free us up to take a run at FAs this summer.

Sam Presti has the same problems as us.
Lmao. Yeah right. He just beat the Warriors 3 more times than we have in 2 years and pulled off a heist in the draft that has everybody looking at Durant like, "if you leave, you're stupid as hell or hate Westbrick."

I really don't see it the same way. Ibaka was probably the biggest key in why they won 3 games against the Warriors, and the biggest reason (other than Durant) why they always give the Spurs problems. I think it's a clear step back for them and they'll suffer for it next year. I wouldn't trade Blake for Oladipo and a late lottery pick either, that'd also be a step back in my book. Far from a heist imo.

And you can't make moves with the idea that all of your free agents might leave, specially not if you're trying to win a championship. If you do that, you're only gonna have a constant retread of rookie contracts that never get to reach their prime with you. Blake and DJ are all-NBA players just entering their prime, you don't trade that sort of guys away unless you plan on taking a step back. Never.

1) Blake would fetch more than Ibaka on the open market. You wouldn't have to take that package

2) If I felt Doc and his buddies created an environment that made the Clippers the best option for our stars, I wouldn't feel that way.

3) I'd gladly take a step back (though I dont think trading Ibaka will be a step back for the Thunder AT ALL) to take 2 steps forward. Do you have any proposals for us to get better????

Ive heard the "other teams have the same problems" thing before...but never any actual proposals to get better.

[og15]

Anyone is tradeable for the right return, the question is always what the right return is for the specific teams situation. So I won't say we don't trade DJ or Blake, it just depends on what they would be traded for. Blake for the return OKC got for Ibaka is not good for this team. DJ would be fine in terms of the talent level of return, but it couldn't be that specific trade as the Clippers would create some holes they can't afford to create.

[Ranma]

When I initially heard that the Clippers were down to 2 targets by the time the Sixers drafted before us at 24th overall, I initially thought it was Timothe Luwawu and Brice Johnson with Deyonta Davis getting last-minute consideration. As it turned out, it looks like Doc was referring to Guerschon Yabusele as the other consideration to Brice Johnson.

However, since Yabusele was drafted at 16th overall, that means Doc would have passed over both Timothe Luwawu and possibly DeAndre Bembry had they still been available. Doc even mentions in the post-draft Q&A video below that the two guys under consideration around that time were big men, which doesn't apply to either Bembry or Luwawu.

As I've mentioned, I like Brice Johnson, but I would have preferred to draft him at 33rd overall when the consensus had him likely to be available then. Further, I am in disagreement with Doc's draft board based on what I'm hearing. I get passing on Skal Labissiere as I was never sold on him and had fears he'd be the next Nikoloz Tskitishvili or Andrea Bargnani with maybe an upside of Channing Frye. I don't know much about Luwawu and I understand the concerns about Bembry's lack of length and shot, but passing on either of them had he gotten the opportunity strikes me as questionable. This on top of passing on Deyonta Davis and Furkan Korkmaz.

Even with this, it doesn't sound like either Yabusele or Johnson was the player the the Clippers were trying to trade up for. Based on the pre-draft rumors, it probably was Taurean Prince. However, Bembry was also rumored to get consideration along with Prince as a top target but neither were invited to the NBA Draft green room. Based on the context of the post-draft Q&A, Doc's reference of his targeted big men at 25th overall were based on the anticipation of availability, which would explain a brief consideration of Davis, who surprisingly fell into our laps. Davis, Labissiere, and Korkmaz as well as Ben Bentil among others were all listed ahead of Johnson on Jay Bilas's BPA ticker at the time of our draft selection.

To be fair, if Johnson was the top guy on their board, then you have to take BPA. However, they apparently also had David Michineau as BPA at 33rd overall and chose to trade down on the gamble to also get Diamond Stone. Obviously, Doc felt it was riskier that Johnson would not be available but this all still seems like somewhat questionable asset management to me, especially when we could have purchased the 38th overall pick that Golden State ended up acquiring to get Patrick McCaw, another promising prospect who possibly could have addressed our needs as a SG.

I guess Doc bought into the idea that Yabusele could be a Draymond Green type player and that Johnson could be a solution for us as a SF down the line. I actually like the idea of developing Johnson into a SF to fill the Jeff Green role. I even like the fact that we currently have multiple young players to fill out roster spots in C.J. Wilcox, Branden Dawson, Brice Johnson, David Michineau, and Diamond Stone, especially given that we will be without a draft pick next year.

The bottom line is that Brice Johnson better be playing and contributing to next season's team. There were just too many other options and alternatives Doc could have pursued even without being able to trade up the draft board for him to waste another 1st-round draft pick.

Watch on YouTube

Rowan Kavner, Clippers.com (6/23/16)

It could’ve been enticing for the Clippers to grab one of the projected lottery picks who started falling late in the first round.

But the guy they wanted all along was still right there, and head coach Doc Rivers said the Clippers stayed true to their board selecting North Carolina power forward Brice Johnson with the No. 25 overall pick in the first round.

“We had a ranking, and we pretty much stuck to it, to be honest,” Rivers said. “Brice was the guy.”
...

Rivers said the Clippers had a couple guys they were particularly interested in as the 25th pick drew closer. When one of the two players they liked was selected shortly before they were on the clock, the Clippers knew the Tar Heel forward would be the choice.

Clippers Select UNC’s Brice Johnson at No. 25


Dan Woike, Orange County Register (6/24/16)

The 6-foot-10, 230-pound Johnson, one of the most productive players in college basketball last season, shot 61.4 percent while averaging 17 points and 10.4 rebounds per game. He was a consensus First-Team All-American and the Most Outstanding Player of the NCAA East Regional.

Johnson had the fifth-highest player efficiency rating in Division I last season (33.04), a kind of catch-all metric, and the highest of any player selected in the first round Thursday.
...

“We had a ranking and we pretty much stuck to it. Brice was the guy,” Rivers said. “We had a lot of guys on the board, but who we thought at No. 25, who would be there, the main guy we wanted to be there was Brice and one other guy.”

That other guy, it turns out, was French power forward Guerschon Yabusele, who went to the Boston Celtics with the No. 16 pick.

By the time they were on the clock for No. 25, the Clippers were faced with a decision between Johnson and Michigan State freshman Deyonta Davis, a projected lottery pick who eventually slid all the way to No. 31.

And Johnson, who topped their board for much of the process, was their choice.

Clippers Select North Carolina Forward Brice Johnson with 25th Pick, Add French Point Guard, Maryland Center

[Ranma]

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thats gotta hurt

I saw his interview during the draft after he was selected. His sullen body language and comments did not do him any service. Yeah, he's young and has some maturing to do, but I was unconvinced with his claim of playing with a chip on his shoulder. Obviously, it was a shock to him but he just missed on being a 1st-round pick, which is a decent accomplishment for someone so young. The kid needs to develop some mental toughness if he wants to fulfill his potential, which is appealing since he was invited to the green room based on interviews with NBA personnel evaluators. I wonder if Tom Izzo gave any insight into the kid's makeup during his and Denzel Valentine's visit to Doc's office during our playoff game.

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The Hawks actually came away with a draft that I wanted for the Clippers by getting both Taurean Prince and DeAndre Bembry. However, Juan Hernangomez and Bembry was my more preferred scenario.

It's wishful thinking on my part, but I wonder if a deal can be made with Atlanta for Bembry and/or Prince in a possible swap of our recent draftees if it helps the Hawks' aim of re-signing Al Horford. It can't be a coincidence that they drafted the players we were supposedly interested in when it was reported that they were looking to trade both picks prior to the draft proceedings, right? Right?

Also, I wonder if the Clippers had enough information to actually consider Deyonta Davis when he surprisingly fell to our draft slot. He wasn't among those who were publicly listed to have attended a workout with the Clippers. Then again, neither were Brice Johnson, David Michineau, and Diamond Stone.

Public list of players the Clippers have worked out so far.

Zach Auguste
Brandon Austin
Anthony "Cat" Barber
Malik Beasley
DeAndre Bembry
Ben Bentil
Jaron Blossomgame (Withdrawn)
Joel Bolomboy
Isaiah Briscoe (Withdrawn)
Malcolm Brogdon
Robert Carter Jr.
Isaiah Cousins
Tre Demps
Cheick Diallo
Perry Ellis
AJ English
Yogi Ferrell
Patricio Garino
Michael Gbinije (Scheduled)
Daniel Hamilton
Shaquille Harrison
Josh Hart (Withdrawn)
Danuel House
Tonye Jekiri
Damion Lee
Jameel McKay
Georges Niang
Chinau Onuaku (Interview)
Gary Payton II
Dyshawn Pierre
Marshall Plumlee
Malik Pope (Withdrawn)
Alex Poythress
Taurean Prince
Kevin Punter
Josh Scott
Wayne Selden
Kaleb Tarczweski
Isaiah Taylor
Melo Trimble (Withdrawn)
Fred VanVleet (Cancelled)
Tyrone Wallace
Isaiah Whitehead
Troy Williams (Cancelled)
Guerschon Yabusele
Zhou Qi
Stephen Zimmerman (Scheduled)

[mkwest]

It's wishful thinking on my part, but I wonder if a deal can be made with Atlanta for Bembry and/or Prince in a possible swap of our recent draftees if it helps the Hawks' aim of re-signing Al Horford. It can't be a coincidence that they drafted the players we were supposedly interested in when it was reported that they were looking to trade both picks prior to the draft proceedings, right? Right?

Also, I wonder if the Clippers had enough information to actually consider Deyonta Davis when he surprisingly fell to our draft slot. He wasn't among those who were publicly listed to have attended a workout with the Clippers. Then again, neither were Brice Johnson, David Michineau, and Diamond Stone.

I haven't looked at their cap situation, but clearing up room to re-sign their players should have been accomplished by trading away Teague.

[Ranma]

I haven't looked at their cap situation, but clearing up room to re-sign their players should have been accomplished by trading away Teague.

That would make the timing of Stein's report of Atlanta trying to trade both the newly acquired 12th and their own 21st overall picks even stranger. Personally, I don't see why they should even consider doing such a thing. They may have potentially the most cap space of any team to play with in upcoming free agency, but unless they can lure Hassan Whiteside with thoughts of being the man with a max deal a la DeAndre Jordan or convince DeMar DeRozan to leave the higher taxes and cold weather of Canada for Hotlanta, I don't see the point of shopping their low-salaried draft picks right away.

[QRich3]

1) Blake would fetch more than Ibaka on the open market. You wouldn't have to take that package

2) If I felt Doc and his buddies created an environment that made the Clippers the best option for our stars, I wouldn't feel that way.

3) I'd gladly take a step back (though I dont think trading Ibaka will be a step back for the Thunder AT ALL) to take 2 steps forward. Do you have any proposals for us to get better????

Ive heard the "other teams have the same problems" thing before...but never any actual proposals to get better.

My proposal is pretty clear, don't do anything stupid just to make a move. I'd love to have the formula for being next years championship favorite, but such a thing doesn't exist.

Problem with taking a step back is there isn't any realistic scenario that gets us two steps forward after it. You either trade Blake for some mediocre package like Crowder+Bradley or Gallinari+Jokic that will transform us into a worse treadmill team fighting for the 6th to 8th seed, or you blow it up completely, in which case you won't be able to get any blue chip or high pick because both our stars are on an expiring contract.

And we're gonna see next year with OKC. Ibaka has been the biggest culprit of their defensive performance for half a decade. And their defensive length has been the biggest reason for their playoff success in the past. Not Durant's scoring, not Westbrook's triple doubles. They still have some length, but they don't have a rim protector that can stretch the floor now. I'm not even sure Blake's gonna have that much value than Ibaka, he's the only 3&D player in the league where the D part is rim protection, that makes the fit so attractive for so many teams.

Anyone is tradeable for the right return, the question is always what the right return is for the specific teams situation. So I won't say we don't trade DJ or Blake, it just depends on what they would be traded for. Blake for the return OKC got for Ibaka is not good for this team. DJ would be fine in terms of the talent level of return, but it couldn't be that specific trade as the Clippers would create some holes they can't afford to create.

The problem's exactly that, there's not a realistic return that'll transform us into a better team, either now or for the future. Not with Blake's value the way it is (seriously, has everyone completely forgotten how Blake Griffin plays basketball??), and not with Paul on an expiring contract. If someone has a realistic proposal that works for that purpose, I'd love to hear it.

[Quake Griffin]

1) Blake would fetch more than Ibaka on the open market. You wouldn't have to take that package

2) If I felt Doc and his buddies created an environment that made the Clippers the best option for our stars, I wouldn't feel that way.

3) I'd gladly take a step back (though I dont think trading Ibaka will be a step back for the Thunder AT ALL) to take 2 steps forward. Do you have any proposals for us to get better????

Ive heard the "other teams have the same problems" thing before...but never any actual proposals to get better.

My proposal is pretty clear, don't do anything stupid just to make a move. I'd love to have the formula for being next years championship favorite, but such a thing doesn't exist.

Problem with taking a step back is there isn't any realistic scenario that gets us two steps forward after it. You either trade Blake for some mediocre package like Crowder+Bradley or Gallinari+Jokic that will transform us into a worse treadmill team fighting for the 6th to 8th seed, or you blow it up completely, in which case you won't be able to get any blue chip or high pick because both our stars are on an expiring contract.

And we're gonna see next year with OKC. Ibaka has been the biggest culprit of their defensive performance for half a decade. And their defensive length has been the biggest reason for their playoff success in the past. Not Durant's scoring, not Westbrook's triple doubles. They still have some length, but they don't have a rim protector that can stretch the floor now. I'm not even sure Blake's gonna have that much value than Ibaka, he's the only 3&D player in the league where the D part is rim protection, that makes the fit so attractive for so many teams.

Anyone is tradeable for the right return, the question is always what the right return is for the specific teams situation. So I won't say we don't trade DJ or Blake, it just depends on what they would be traded for. Blake for the return OKC got for Ibaka is not good for this team. DJ would be fine in terms of the talent level of return, but it couldn't be that specific trade as the Clippers would create some holes they can't afford to create.

The problem's exactly that, there's not a realistic return that'll transform us into a better team, either now or for the future. Not with Blake's value the way it is (seriously, has everyone completely forgotten how Blake Griffin plays basketball??), and not with Paul on an expiring contract. If someone has a realistic proposal that works for that purpose, I'd love to hear it.

So in the end, you dont have a proposal to make the team better?

Got it.

We're up against the cap. We have no assets to make the big 3 better, yet you characterize a move that would bring in assets a move just to make a move.

Of course you make a caricature if it all by proposing a garbage deal that isnt close to anything a Clipper fan would want in Bradley and Crowder, while Presti got a great return.

Propose moves to make this team better.
We know you know how to pick other people's ideas apart. Provide your own...

Inb4 staying pat is good enough.
ZZZZzzz

[QRich3]

Eh, I'm not trying to be king of trades here, if I think there's no realistic move to make us better, I'll tell you there's no realistic move to make us better. Bradley and Crowder is arguably a better return than OKC got from Ibaka, and I doubt there would be much more on the table for expiring Blake after a season off. If there is, I'd love to be surprised.

If you wanna daydream about getting some underappreciated star for Blake that'll solve all of our problems, go on. Then you can bitch about how Doc didn't make this made up move that you yourself agreed would solve all our problems, and he's clueless for it.

Edit- Since you seem to need to know what I'd do so you can criticize it, I've already said a few times here that I'd go on as best we can with the offseason (trying to keep Cole, go after guys like Solomon Hill, Donald Sloan, etc.) and prioritize keeping capspace open for next year before anything else. Then try to get Paul, Blake and Redick to take a paycut to make a run at Gordon Hayward. If all fails and everyone signs elsewhere (I'd very much doubt it), trade DJ for the highest pick available and get into a full rebuild. Simple and to the point, with no need to convert a #1 pick that evolved into a superstar into assets because assets make you better. Best case scenario for any asset is to evolve into what Blake is now. And it doesn't happen very often.

[Quake Griffin]

Eh, I'm not trying to be king of trades here, if I think there's no realistic move to make us better, I'll tell you there's no realistic move to make us better. Bradley and Crowder is arguably a better return than OKC got from Ibaka, and I doubt there would be much more on the table for expiring Blake after a season off. If there is, I'd love to be surprised.

If you wanna daydream about getting some underappreciated star for Blake that'll solve all of our problems, go on. Then you can bitch about how Doc didn't make this made up move that you yourself agreed would solve all our problems, and he's clueless for it.

Edit- Since you seem to need to know what I'd do so you can criticize it, I've already said a few times here that I'd go on as best we can with the offseason (trying to keep Cole, go after guys like Solomon Hill, Donald Sloan, etc.) and prioritize keeping capspace open for next year before anything else. Then try to get Paul, Blake and Redick to take a paycut to make a run at Gordon Hayward. If all fails and everyone signs elsewhere (I'd very much doubt it), trade DJ for the highest pick available and get into a full rebuild. Simple and to the point, with no need to convert a #1 pick that evolved into a superstar into assets because assets make you better. Best case scenario for any asset is to evolve into what Blake is now. And it doesn't happen very often.

Oh so you've daydreamed as well with Hayward and paycuts?
Cool. Takes a little bit of the bite out of that one.

Yes. I will bitch about Doc being here for 3 calendar years and not making our roster any better. He is the guy who was flippant and laughed at the roster he inherited right? We could always make excuses for him and say "it's difficult" or say that other teams are having the same problems and ignore that he is paid the big bucks to circumnavigate those difficulties.

I never said we needed a star to match Griffin's level btw. You did. I think we can create a better roster by trading him for assets, renouncing a player or 2 and being active in FA. If we had assets to make this team better, I wouldnt even be having this discussion with you.

[Ranma]

My disdain for Doc Rivers is widely known around here, so I'll try not to repeat myself. Now is not the time for a rebuild because we are close to seriously contending for a championship. The problem is that we've been that way in a stuck-in-neutral position ever since our illustrious leader took charge. We haven't moved forward while our window is closing. Given how rare superstar players are, we could also find a taker for Griffin or Paul should the need ever arise to actually deal them. Even as pending free agents, we'd still have the option of doing sign-and-trade deals, but that doesn't assure us of getting anything of much quality back.

Doc was not hired to rebuild a franchise. In fact, he left Boston because he didn't have the patience and wherewithal to go through another and risk being exposed as an incompetent team builder sooner. Flash forward to today and we see the Celtics on the upswing from a rapid rise while it's been pretty much status quo for Lob City. Even so, as was illustrated earlier, it is hard for teams to position themselves to be in serious contention, so we can't take this opportunity albeit deflated for granted even if we're still waiting for Doc to put us over the top. We're not quite a middling team just yet. The fact that we're still seen as a dangerous threat is a testament to how stacked this team was when Doc took over just as it is to his overwhelming failure to move us forward in any significant fashion as a team.

Due to Doc's malpractice as wannabe GM, he's mortgaged our future by giving away future 1st-round picks to other teams to have Bird rights to sign mediocre free agents and cover up past mistakes. This alone doesn't put us in an ideal situation to start over in a rebuild movement even if we were to relieve him of his President of Basketball Operations duties, which should have been done yesterday. Even his biggest accomplishment as a GM (trading for Redick) was done in half measure (see Jared Dudley). Doc wanted to get to championship contention as soon as possible, which is why he was so eager to unload assets in Eric Bledsoe and 1st-round picks to take the shortcut route.

I've said before, that for better or worse, we are basically stuck with Doc because he's not going anywhere in the near future, so we'll have to rely on him to hopefully figure things out. His clout as a recruiter has certainly faded but we're still one of the few teams granted an audience with Kevin Durant even if we're only going to lay the groundwork for his anticipated free agency in 2017 instead of this summer.

I'm not going to stop criticizing Doc for his shortcomings only because he'll provide plenty of opportunities and has been slow to learn. The silver lining is that he's added more young players to potentially having 5 who will be on their rookie contracts in Wilcox, Dawson, Johnson, Michineau, and Stone, so it seems to point to an emphasis for talent development. It's likely out of necessity given his previous failed transactions messing up our cap situation, but it's something that should have been done earlier, nonetheless. It also seems to point to progress of finally having our own NBDL team as well, but we'll see.

The bottom line is that we have to keep moving forward even if we're continuing on at a snail's pace. To do otherwise would require a real commitment toward tearing everything down in starting over and I don't see that happening. Personally, I'm in favor of trading DJ over Blake in our pursuit of Durant, but if we had to trade Blake, especially to open up cap space for our primary free-agent target, I previously proposed something along the lines of D'Angelo Russell, Brandon Ingram, and future draft pick(s) in addition to swapping Branden Dawson for Larry Nance, Jr.

[Ranma]

There's been something that's been bugging me, so I thought I'd make a quick remark about it. It's been noted that Doc & the Clips were targeting 2 players with the 25th overall selection in the 2016 NBA Draft. It has since been reported that the two players were Brice Johnson and Guerschon Yabusele. What bugs me is that Doc has come out and said that the other guy besides Johnson was taken "a little bit before" we were able to make the pick. Yabusele was taken 16th overall by the Celtics. That's 9 picks before our selection slot as 25th overall, which hardly qualifies as " a little bit".

Now I understand that I might be making an overly big deal over his choice of words, but I don't see why he would use "a little bit before" when just "before" would have sufficed. Maybe Doc wanted to throw reporters off from his true target, but why go through the trouble? Maybe Doc can't count or maybe he didn't want to say how much sooner the other guy was taken for whatever reason. Maybe he didn't want to tip his hand over future negotiations in possible trade talks for that player. Maybe he didn't want to give insight into the type of player he likes. Whatever.

I don't doubt that Doc likes Yabusele, but it just makes more sense to me that the "other player" would be either Timothe Luwawu or DeAndre Bembry based on his words and our needs even though I'm a BPA-over-needs guy. Bembry, in particular, makes the most amount of sense given the previous rumors of the Clippers being split between Bembry and Taurean Prince in their draft evaluations. Then again, I might have been caught up and fooled by the pre-draft scuttlebutt used to throw teams and fans off. I'm just not convinced that is the case.

[QRich3]

Oh so you've daydreamed as well with Hayward and paycuts?
Cool. Takes a little bit of the bite out of that one.

Yes. I will bitch about Doc being here for 3 calendar years and not making our roster any better. He is the guy who was flippant and laughed at the roster he inherited right? We could always make excuses for him and say "it's difficult" or say that other teams are having the same problems and ignore that he is paid the big bucks to circumnavigate those difficulties.

I never said we needed a star to match Griffin's level btw. You did. I think we can create a better roster by trading him for assets, renouncing a player or 2 and being active in FA. If we had assets to make this team better, I wouldnt even be having this discussion with you.

I guess I just assumed the official position of Doc's advocate in this place some time in the past, but I'm not riding his dick just because. I probably end up overcompensating to counter all of the mindless moaning that goes on in here, but you're not arguing against me by saying Doc hasn't been able to improve the roster in 3 years and he probably f*cked up yet another draft. I'm on that side too, and I don't think I ever said otherwise.

That's one thing, and another is to get outraged by unreasonable things like he didn't draft Gobert like it was the obvious thing to do and a "smart" GM would've done exactly what hindsight shows as the best option. Or constantly moaning because he doesn't play Wes enough but omit that he made Aldrich happen out of thin air. And all of those obsessive things you all know about. It's cool to be a fan and get heated and stuff, but if we're all thoughtless screamers whining because things don't go our way this becomes twitter instead of a forum where there used to be rational discussion. Which I guess it's where it's headed and I'm ok with it, but I'm gonna be here arguing like the contrarian I am as long as I'm not bored with it.

Anyway, I'm not sure I follow what type of move you are exactly looking for with a Griffin trade then. Picks and capspace, even if we don't get a chance at Durant? Which young players and picks would you go after? My thing with Blake is people forgets how good he is and that means two things: that offers for him are gonna be very light from what's been reported, and that people underrates how good he makes us and assume worse players than him won't make us that bad a team just because of last season's record.

[TucsonClip]

Been out of town for a few days.

1. Damn the Spurs taking my boy Dejounte. Really wanted him to be our pick and develop as an attacking PG. He found a great home to develop, just like everyone else the Spurs select.

2. The Brice Johnson pick makes sense, but I still would have gone a different direction. Either way, we need his rebounding, he can finish at the rim and hopefully can pack on some strength and become a solid defender.

3. I know nothing about the French guard.

4. Stone seems like Doc reaching for someone to be his next Al Jefferson. Stone can definitely work on the block and is an interesting pick if he can defend at the next level. I like his post skill, but... he could flame out in 2 years or become our best offensive post presence since Kaman.

5. I liked the Diallo pick at 33, but not sure he makes sense with Johnson anyway. Those two guys are going to be fighting for development time, let alone playing time vs. each other. Diallo never seemed like a Doc pick, which does upset me a bit.

6. Damn the Spurs again

[TucsonClip]

Anybody think Brice has a chance of seeing the floor?

Blake is only 27. He's going to play a lot of minutes.
I saw a fair amount of Brice and don't think he's ready for the 3 (at least not yet).
Then theres Geoff Green's role of being garbage.

He should, but will Doc play him? He needs to be given minutes at the 4/small 5 off the bench to develop. One thing we need is his rebounding and finishing at the rim.

[TucsonClip]

A respected scout that I trust and have taken direction from over the years has a great line that applies to those expecting Johnson to evolve into a SF.

"Players who have a defined position/role and try to 'move up' a position without displaying the skills to do so, usually end up at their defined position."

Other than being able to hit a mid-range jumper out to 14 feet, what makes anyone think Brice Johnson is going to develop into a SF? We already have a more talented, elite athlete with better ball skills and is a better shooter on the roster and he's pretty much locked in as a big. His name is Blake Griffin.

We need to develop Johnson into someone who can play a role for us moving forward. That means putting him in the best position to succeed. I dont think attempting to transition him to SF as something that should be a top priority.

[Ranma]

A respected scout that I trust and have taken direction from over the years has a great line that applies to those expecting Johnson to evolve into a SF.

"Players who have a defined position/role and try to 'move up' a position without displaying the skills to do so, usually end up at their defined position."

Other than being able to hit a mid-range jumper out to 14 feet, what makes anyone think Brice Johnson is going to develop into a SF? We already have a more talented, elite athlete with better ball skills and is a better shooter on the roster and he's pretty much locked in as a big. His name is Blake Griffin.

We need to develop Johnson into someone who can play a role for us moving forward. That means putting him in the best position to succeed. I dont think attempting to transition him to SF as something that should be a top priority.

That's a good point and I generally agree with that. Also, to support your post, I read somewhere that Doc stated that he'll start Brice Johnson out at his college position at the 4 spot. Doc goes on to say elsewhere that before Johnson can develop at another position (presumably SF), he'd need to show what he can do as a PF given that was the position he's played.

However, there are plenty of examples of college players playing different positions in the pros than they did in college usually due to a lack of bulk and/or height. This typically takes the form of college centers becoming pro power forwards, college power forwards becoming pro small forwards, and even college shooting guards becoming pro point guards. It happens out of necessity given the elevated environment of bigger and more skilled competition. Prospects either adjust or lose their livelihood.

Of course, this doesn't work more often than it does (just as most college players don't become NBA players), but it's not an uncommon practice. I've discussed my reasons for why I think Brice Johnson might make a good small forward in more detail in the dedicated Brice Johnson draft pick thread, so I'll touch on a couple of points here. Doc thinks he has a smooth shooting stroke and Brice stated that the 3-point shot is actually a part of his game but was not utilized given the demands of his college team's offensive scheme. Plus, mkwest also posted a pre-draft workout video in the same aforementioned thread that showcased his ball-handling ability. Of course, it remains to be seen if he can translate those to the NBA, but it's not like he'll be Al Thornton as a ball-handler.

Further, I'm confident that he won't need to add much more to his game to be able to contribute more to the team as a SF than Wesley Johnson has, to be honest. That may not be saying much, but it'd still be a significant accomplishment for a rookie, especially a rookie under Doc's watch. I have more concerns about his mobility and lateral quickness on defense but they're minor. The biggest question mark I have with Johnson is how consistent he will be in his production given his noted makeup as a person who doesn't naturally work hard.

[og15]

I think Doc was referring to C for Johnson though and needing to get stronger, but if he has the lateral quicks he can possibly be developed into a role player level SF, but of course his main position will be PF.

[clip set]

I think Doc was referring to C for Johnson though and needing to get stronger, but if he has the lateral quicks he can possibly be developed into a role player level SF, but of course his main position will be PF.

I think that's right as well. If we're unable to re-sign Cole, I could see Doc getting fixated on running Johnson as a small ball C, like what he did to Josh Smith last year. I don't think we should be expecting Johnson to move to SF.