POLL: Tobias Harris Turns Down $80 Million | What's the Right Price?

[Quake Griffin]

It WAS a pithy comment.

For which you have no answer. And hell yes, I'd have traded the Jerome Robinson pick for 29-year old, 4-time all-star Demar DeRozan. He fetched Kawhi. A lousy 13th pick certainly wouldn't. Puts the value in perspective.

And since you seem to remember everything I wrote [thank you very much], you'll remember my pet theory that the FO didn't convert Ty and CJ's two-way contracts for the express purpose of missing the 8th seed and the playoffs, getting the 9th seed [actually 10th] and thus keeping the 13th pick.

I thought that was pretty cool.

pithy
[pith-ee]
SynonymsExamplesWord Origin
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
adjective, pith·i·er, pith·i·est.
brief, forceful, and meaningful in expression; full of vigor, substance, or meaning; terse; forcible:
a pithy observation.


It was only brief. Not forceful. Not meaningful. No substance really.

You can trade a pick. Literally possessing it means your eggs are not in ONE basket or don't have to be...let alone a "VERY" (lol) "crap basket". That was answered before you responded.

Try another angle.

you don't seem to understand the argument
throwing away an entire season just for a marginal lottery pick is a very crap basket to put your eggs in

If we have a marginal pick, we didn't throw the season away. We won a lot of games and missed the playoffs. The only person who wants all of their eggs in a certain basket is you. My position has been clear the entire time. EVERY AVENUE to get better.

The worst basket is trying to sell people here that we have a chance at a guy like Durant knowing we don't....and when that fails, going, "oh well...at least we tried...it was worth the try". No more eating off of "virtue". Love doesn't get you on the bus and hoping for FAs that won't come here won't decorate our arena with a banner.

Good draft picks do win though.

[esqtvd]

until you state my position accurately, please save us both the trouble

the 13th or 14th pick is marginal, not "good"
and certainly not worth losing on purpose for

keeping Tobias is a priority and will help us attract an alpha dog

he is better than anything we are likely to get at 13 or 14

[Quake Griffin]

keeping Tobias is a priority and will help us attract an alpha dog

Until you can prove this and cite to all the times B level stars/ fringe stars/ non all stars on the cusp have attracted alpha dogs, you're just ESPNtv- a guy who hates tanking and is masking that in his argument by pretending your plan is what is best for the team.

he is better than anything we are likely to get at 13 or 14

And you'll walk away from him the moment the Pacers or Magic offer him top coin.

Some priority.

[esqtvd]

nobody has to prove anything to you

show us where superstars join dog$#*t teams

[Quake Griffin]

Wait a minute. Are we having a discussion here or are you getting butthurt? You can't ignore my question then put the ball back into my court.

This is my 3rd time. Please cite to all the times NBA players have signed with 38-45 win teams (joining that core...so don't use LeBron to Miami). Please cite to all the times they've touted organizational integrity for trying to win in their introductory press conference after signing somewhere. Please point to all the fringe all stars/ B level stars that have attracted alpha dogs.

When you do that, I'll answer your question.

[esqtvd]

nobody owes you proof of your own argument if you can't prove it
which you haven't
nobody owes you proof of anything

show us when a superstar signed with a team because they had the 13th draft pick
or signed with a dogspit team

make your argument how trashing the season for a marginal draft pick is better than winning and hopefully keeping Tobias

[Quake Griffin]

Looks like you can't provide an answer.

When you answer, I will answer.

[esqtvd]

ah the Immovable Object tactic

how sophistic
well done

there is definitive proof for neither proposition as you well know

but one makes sense and yours doesn't


fortunately Ballmer and West do not agree with you
they have decided to win and have rounded up the best team they can without committing to long-term contracts
if we lose the pick because we played too well and won too much,

so be it

a sensible course which I endorse heartily

[Quake Griffin]

So the answer to the question is that there is no precedent for your way of doing things bringing in an alpha super star?

[esqtvd]

So the answer to the question is that there is no precedent for your way of doing things bringing in an alpha super star?

ah are you starting to read what I actually wrote

at last


the other half is that there's even less support for your position
to run your franchise into the dirt just for a marginal draft pick

[Quake Griffin]

That a yes or a no?

[esqtvd]

please state your argument in the form of an argument


mine is clear: better to play to win

losing is for losers
nobody wants to join up with losers

if we play too well
and win too many games
and lose that marginal 13th [?] or 14th [?] draft pick



so be it

[Quake Griffin]

So the answer to the question is that there is no precedent for your way of doing things bringing in an alpha super star?

If I can get a simple yes or no to this question, the conversation or argument can proceed.

Yes or no?

[esqtvd]

So the answer to the question is that there is no precedent for your way of doing things bringing in an alpha super star?

If I can get a simple yes or no to this question, the conversation or argument can proceed.

Yes or no?

what conversation?
what argument?

you are not the judge or jury
this is where internet sophists continually err
you don't get to conduct the debate
you don't get to make the rules

and asked and answered, as they say on Law & Order

there is definitive proof for neither proposition as you well know

Asked and Answered.


so now, what's your argument?
please put your argument in the form of an argument for all those who came in late
so they might figure out what you're on about

mine is this:

mine is clear: better to play to win

losing is for losers
nobody wants to join up with losers

if we play too well
and win too many games
and lose that marginal 13th [?] or 14th [?] draft pick



so be it

[Quake Griffin]

keeping Tobias is a priority and will help us attract an alpha dog

How do you know this to be true?

[esqtvd]

keeping Tobias is a priority and will help us attract an alpha dog

How do you know this to be true?

Ah, you're almost discussing now. Almost.

Could.
Much more than us simply having the 14th pick. Much. Much. Much much more. Tobias is now an established NBA pro. The $20-30 million class. The real thing, not just a prospect.

Now the burden of proof is shifted back to you, that the 13th or 14th pick in next year's draft is or even could attract a superstar free agent.

Me, if I were a superstar alpha dog, I would not remotely give a s#*t. No way a marginal FRP influences my decision.

[Quake Griffin]

For a guy that is so big on his position misstated (I never really do that. You just hate when I sarcastically state your position), you sure do have a way of whiffing.

When did I say "the 14th pick is bringing an FA here"?
Quote it or any thing of its sort here.

[esqtvd]

For a guy that is so big on his position misstated (I never really do that. You just hate when I sarcastically state your position), you sure do have a way of whiffing.

When did I say "the 14th pick is bringing an FA here"?
Quote it or any thing of its sort here.

what do you want from me?
should we waive all our best players?

Watch on YouTube

WTF man
get out of my face

[Quake Griffin]

Further, Tobias is a solid cog in a championship machine but he isn't a superstar. Having him here, while awesome, would mean we are still in search of that elusive superstar...the superstar that will put us over the top...the one that can lead a team to a ring. As long as we are looking for that superstar, we are in no position to limit the ways in which we find that star.

Don't worry. You'll pretend this position isn't abundantly clear when the reality is, you're into settling for guys like DeMar Derozan for this franchise because he made the all star team.

what do you want from me?

Thought I made this clear as well.

To please list all the times an NBA Superstar has signed with a 38-45 win team (as an addition to that core, so not LeBron to Miami)...list each time they've lauded a franchise for "staying attractive" during a season...list every time they've lauded a franchise for bringing in the Luc Mbah Moute's of the world...please list all the B level stars/ fringe stars/ talented players on the cusp of being a star who have attracted NBA Superstars to sign with their team.

^^^
In a way that is clear please and not some super sarcastic defense of your point (read: your ego) . Don't wanna misstate your positions any more.
Ex. "Superstar A signed with this team. They were 38-44 the year before"
Ex. "I have no example for any of these"

[Wammy Giveaway]

Guys, cut it out. You're ruining the flow of the board, you leave me no choice but to be a mediator.

Esq, what do you want from Quake?

Quake, are you trying to goad Esq into a submission?

I can tell you right now that the arguments you're having on Tobias Harris is a moot point. It's not just about upping his stat production, it's helping the Clippers to defeat some of the tougher opponents. Be the guy to defeat the Warriors without requiring a career high 50 PTS from Lou Williams, a bench player. Be the guy to defeat the Rockets without taking things personally, like with Chris Paul and Blake Griffin who now hate each other. Be the guy to defeat the LeBron Lakers in a world that is selfishly predicting a Lakers-Celtics Finals series because the league operates in legacy terms. Harris may not be a superstar, the Clippers may see another lost season, but they're not going to pretend that they don't matter. This is the season where they can prove to the sports world they still belong, and if they have a winning record as a 9th seed, and the other pieces on the roster perform to their optimal standards, they will be in the running for superstars in the 2019 off-season and become the elite team they should have been when David Stern vetoed the Chris Paul trade.

If you continue to argue about Tobias's worth, a mod is gonna have to step in.