Jimmy Butler Showed Interest in Clippers; Traded To Philadelphia

[TLand0026]

I thought the problem was that KAT is a dog...?

Except that there was just as much drama with Jimmy in Chicago. Can't blame KAT for that. The common denominator in all the drama is Jimmy.

Yep this is his 2nd team that he would be leaving on a bad note and he's only played for two teams in his career.

-on another note Minny hiring Thibs was a huge huge blunder. Almost feel bad for them

Wolves fan here...Flip Saunders was the GM/Coach the year before last, also a minnesota native and our old coach from the Garnett era. He got cancer, died(RIP Filp) and was a huge blow to the minnesota sports community. That was probably what you should 1st feel the worst for us for in the GM/Coaching area. 2nd was the David Khan era...a guy that knew nothing about basketball. I won't go into the countless reasons but the ownership really screwd up that one. 3rd is Thibs well the jury is still out. Lets not forget that at this time last year the wolves were certain to be a competing team. Now 1 year out with Thibs it feels like it is going to be another huge step backwords. Butler wants out but thibs is a win now coach. This Situation has really taken a Nose Dive for the Wolves and we are not even in training camp yet?

[mttwlsn16]

another basketball deep throat

maybe Chris should have been more outspoken

"We just gotta get tougher. We gotta play like some dogs with a sense of urgency," Butler said Tuesday. "Teams just do whatever they want against us. I don't like it. Ain't no coach in the world that can make somebody play hard. Ain't no coach in the world that can make anybody want it."

It's a blunt attack on his teammates, but probably deserved considering the Wolves' lifeless performance in a blowout loss at home to Ricky Rubio and the Utah Jazz on Sunday.

"Everybody is playing for the fight of their life, we gotta realize that," he continued. "As a whole, we gotta go out there and be the tougher team every single night, every single possession."

So who's to blame for the lack of effort? According to Butler, it's not head coach Tom Thibodeau.

"We gotta have that will to want to guard. We haven't done that all year," he said. "We've had stretches where it's looked solid, and then we go back to what you've been seeing. All in all, we just gotta want to play defense. Thibs, he don't got too much to do with that."

KAT is a dog. So is Wiggins. Maybe Butler's bad rap will undercut his trade value. Ask Lee Jenkins if it's a bad rap. That's what he's getting the big Ballmer Bucks for.

That said, I don't really want to build around a 30-yr-old. I just hate to see people get unjustly accused. Butler isn't dogging his team's talent, only its desire and professionalism. Most bad teams can trace their suckage to that.

Wiggins is a lazy overpaid sack of **** lol

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[esqtvd]

Andrew Wiggins' brother



there it is


This really does remind me of CP3's frustration with the Clippers, namely Blake and DJ
Chris took Austin's side in separate incidents when AR25 gave them sh*t about complaining to the refs and loafing, respectively

Butler had the same problem in Chicago with the younger players
he formed a phalanx with D-Wade, who is--not coincidentally--a 3-time champion

so you can blame Butler as the malcontent but maybe it's that the people he had problems with are losers

this is what's behind the Lee Jenkins hire
winning championships is not just a matter of talent

Butler does have a bad rep now
and the Bulls got a disappointing haul for him

Trade Grades: Wolves Fleece Bulls In Jimmy Butler Blockbuster

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/06/22/jimmy-butler-trade-bulls-wolves-nba-draft-grades-zach-lavine-kris-dunn

there could be opportunity here

[Ranma]

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[Ranma]

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[TucsonClip]

Can I just say, there is no coincidence between the Jenkins hiring and this development. Same with the Kawhi thing. That's speculation on my part, but the pieces fit.

That said, if Minnesota refuses to take on Gallo in a Butler deal, I'm hanging up. Not saying I would shut down talks, but he has to be part of package a - x. Y and Z are where it gets tricky.

I'd be fine moving any combo of Gallo, Bev, Jerome, Bradley, however it likely requires another deal/team. Ideally we hold on to Lou, but he's not off the table. Tobias is a more complicated package, imo.

[mkwest]

I'd be fine moving any combo of Gallo, Bev, Jerome, Bradley, however it likely requires another deal/team. Ideally we hold on to Lou, but he's not off the table. Tobias is a more complicated package, imo.

Unfortunately, Bradley can't be moved until January 15th.

[simon24]

Can I just say, there is no coincidence between the Jenkins hiring and this development. Same with the Kawhi thing. That's speculation on my part, but the pieces fit.

That said, if Minnesota refuses to take on Gallo in a Butler deal, I'm hanging up. Not saying I would shut down talks, but he has to be part of package a - x. Y and Z are where it gets tricky.

I'd be fine moving any combo of Gallo, Bev, Jerome, Bradley, however it likely requires another deal/team. Ideally we hold on to Lou, but he's not off the table. Tobias is a more complicated package, imo.

Got to keep JR.

[Don Tommy]

Here's the thing for me. When we traded Blake, all we heard was that no one would ever want to come and sign with us because of how we hung his jersey in the rafters then a few months later showed him the door. Now, the first time an All Star (Not superstar, but an All Star) is looking to get traded, we are the first team on his list. Do players have as big of short term memory issues as me or... do they understand that we actually made a good trade?

And the other thing I am wondering, something Neddy touched on. It's been widely reported that Butler and Kyrie are a package deal next year. I truly believe that the reason this meeting came so close to the regular season is because Jimmy and Kyrie talked, much like LeBron, Bosh and Wade did before their free agency in 2010. This tells me that if we trade Gallo for Butler that next year Kyrie is signing with us. So whatever trade we make, don't look at it as players A, B and C for Jimmy Butler, but those players for Jimmy Butler and Kyrie Irving.

Thank God we have Jerry West assisting our front office instead of Doc making the call on this. I trust West's knowledge more than I trust the opinion of each and every person on this forum and in Doc's entourage. And like others have said, I am curious what impact Lee Jenkins will have in our free agency / trade decisions!

So where does that leave us in our hunt for Kwahi? I had given up on the NBA after the Golden Knights swept threw Vegas last year, but this drama is bringing me back in! I may make it past year 30 just to see where we are going!

[QRich3]

Ugh I don't like this much. I don't want to pay him whatever he's gonna ask for next summer, even if we got him for free.

But I'd be ok giving a package around Tobi, since I'm not a fan of keeping him next summer anyway. Add any of the veterans they want: Bradley, Bev, Lou, Gallo, Gortat, whatever. But draw a red f*cking line around Shai, Jerome or any picks. If they include any of those I'm gonna be pissed.

This offer sucks for the T-Wolves by the way, I don't see how they'd accept it. Hopefully they'll trade him to some other team.

[Galloisdaman]

There may be other factors but reportedly Butler wants an additional 4 years and 155 mill over those 4 years. That looks to be play a big role in Butlers mindset. If he wants another star there are other options team wise. He is a really good player but his personality reportedly drives some players in the other direction.

[Ranma]

Strange 3 team selection. Why would a guy pick 3 teams that were not in the playoffs? Does he only care about $$$?

Usually guys his age want a good chance at winning.

Big markets and the possibility of teaming up with Irving in NY/BK or Leonard here next season.

I talked to a co-worker, who is another big Clippers fan, yesterday about the Butler-to-Clippers speculation and he pointed out something that I didn't even realize. He said that Jimmy Butler and Kyrie Irving are close and, while he also acknowledged that Jimmy B was not worth a max contract, he advocated that having him on the team would attract other star players such as Kawhi and Kyrie.

As mkwest pointed out, a Kyrie and Butler team-up makes sense in New York given Kyrie's previously stated preference to play in Madison Square Garden and Butler naming the Knicks among the teams on his preferred list. I had no idea that they had a deeper connection than that. Upon a cursory Google search, I've found that they've each stated that they would like to play with each other and that the New York media has been running wild with such speculation.

As my co-worker pointed out, who's to say that Butler couldn't bring Kyrie with him to Los Angeles instead of New York? Personally, that's not a preferred scenario in my master plan, but it does give us a replacement for Chris Paul while also rectifying a bone-headed move by Sterling in trading the first-round pick that eventually became Kyrie in order to unload the last year of Baron Davis's bloated body and contract.

Apparently, my co-worker was not the only one thinking along similar lines as Doc's son Austin apparently just Instagrammed a reaction to the Butler trade demand. Notice how he knows his dad so well in citing a Celtic joining Butler's new team, but in this case, Mr. Irving happens to play for Boston as of right now. I highly doubt that's a coincidence.

While I think it's great that the Clippers are generating all this buzz as a destination for notable pending free agents, the grand scheme still needs to be centered around getting at least 2 undoubtedly worthy max-level players.

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[Ranma]

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Andrew Sharp, SI.com (9/20/18)

I really do love Butler as a fan, but he is 29 years old, he's played 70 games just once in the past five years, and the track record of 30-something Thibs survivors is not encouraging. Also, Butler is a free agent next summer, which means he's about to be eligible for a deal worth somewhere between $140 million over four years and $190 million over five. If a team like the Lakers "lost" these sweepstakes, that could be a blessing. There are some significant risks in play here. It's a good thing that Butler didn't throw any desperate, traditionally impulsive teams onto his... Oh, what's that?!

It still seems crazy that Kyrie Irving could walk away from a superteam in Boston, but there has been speculation pointing that direction for months now. Half the rumors say that Kyrie would love to return to New York City, and half say that he could team up with Kevin Durant and long-time friend Jimmy Butler. While LeBron tries to recruit stars to Los Angeles, it's at least possible that Kyrie is already playing the same game for next summer. (Related: Who has the advantage if LeBron gets Anthony Davis, but Kyrie is playing with Jimmy Butler and Kevin Durant?)

6. So, the Clippers? They can offer win-now players like Tobias Harris and Patrick Beverley, they can throw in a mid-2020s first round pick, and Butler is "most determined" to find his way to L.A. While Butler/Kyrie/Durant superteams will probably never go further than New York Post fan fiction, the Clippers assembling a Butler/Kawhi foundation is very much in play. Given the list we have from Butler, a deal with the Clips this seems like the most sensible outcome for everyone involved. Of course, Kyrie Irving's list last summer began with the Knicks, Wolves, Spurs, and Heat, so there is always the chance that all of this speculation is meaningless.

In general, NBA news is always a little bit stranger than anything we could have scripted. Jimmy Butler demanding a trade to the Clippers less than a week before training camp is one more reminder. It's also a great excuse to spend the rest of the week poring over IG gossip and reckless speculation about 2019 superteams. Welcome back, basketball.

Six Degrees of the Jimmy Butler Trade Demand

[MartinToVaught]

Andrew Wiggins' brother



there it is


This really does remind me of CP3's frustration with the Clippers, namely Blake and DJ
Chris took Austin's side in separate incidents when AR25 gave them sh*t about complaining to the refs and loafing, respectively

Butler had the same problem in Chicago with the younger players
he formed a phalanx with D-Wade, who is--not coincidentally--a 3-time champion

so you can blame Butler as the malcontent but maybe it's that the people he had problems with are losers

this is what's behind the Lee Jenkins hire
winning championships is not just a matter of talent

Butler does have a bad rep now
and the Bulls got a disappointing haul for him

Trade Grades: Wolves Fleece Bulls In Jimmy Butler Blockbuster

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/06/22/jimmy-butler-trade-bulls-wolves-nba-draft-grades-zach-lavine-kris-dunn

there could be opportunity here

What exactly has that "winner" Jimmy Butler ever won that makes him so much more accomplished than the "loser" teammates he's been feuding with? Rondo has a ring and Butler couldn't get along with him in Chicago, so that alone disproves your narrative.

[madmaxmedia]

I’m all for it if Gallonari is sent out and it helps draw another max guy.

Even if Butler is a bit old for a max/supermax, there is significance to the idea that he might help bring in a big FA next offseason. The whole "saving up money to sign 2 max FA's" is nice in principle, but needs too many moving parts to work out (Has it ever? Trades don't count.) It's like pitching your movie script, simultaneously telling producers you already have a star attached, and telling stars you already have a production deal.

That might be the biggest upside to trading for him now, next to however many prime years Butler has left. Of course that's only if the right trade can be made- Harris is off the table, as is SGA. Also, Butler will obviously push hard for a supermax, but that extra year is a killer.

[TheNewEra]

Yeah still wouldn’t do Harris or SGA

[TrueLAfan]

Mmmm … I’m kind of thinking that the idea that T-Wolves “fleeced” the Bulls was big-time premature speculation. Justin Patton has potential and I’ve posted how we should/should have gone after him in trade … but Markannen is already very good and has considerable upside (dude is 20!). Zach LaVine is by no means a perfect player and he’s coming off an injury … but it’s an injury others have come back from and he’s a good to very good player. Same with Kris Dunn. And those guys are 23 and 24 respectively. If I was betting on a sleeper playoff team this season, it would be the Bulls. Considering Justin Patton played 4 minutes last year and Butler now wants out, I’d say the Bulls were the (big) winners in that trade.


A lot of this is just debatable stuff that we’ll go back and forth on—which is cool with me. But there are three things posted on here I strongly agree with:

• Butler is 30 and has already has injury issues. That takes Max money off the table
• For better or worse, Butler has had chemistry issues on teams that were pretty good. That concerns me; it kinda indicates to me he’s either not a leader, is part of the problem, or some of both.
• Flip Saunders, RIP. He was one of the really good guys in the NBA.

[madmaxmedia]

A lot of this is just debatable stuff that we’ll go back and forth on—which is cool with me. But there are three things posted on here I strongly agree with:

• Butler is 30 and has already has injury issues. That takes Max money off the table
• For better or worse, Butler has had chemistry issues on teams that were pretty good. That concerns me; it kinda indicates to me he’s either not a leader, is part of the problem, or some of both.
• Flip Saunders, RIP. He was one of the really good guys in the NBA.

I think a max is the absolute rock bottom possible extension Butler will go for, if that is too much for the Clippers then there's no way they'll be able to trade and extend him. I think the Clippers will entertain a trade for Butler, but that contract extension is the biggest obstacle. If they were pretty sure (wink wink nudge nudge) that securing Butler would dramatically improve their chances at signing a big FA next offseason, I think they would lean towards a trade. But that's a purely speculative if, nothing more.

I think Butler's chemistry issues on the current team have as much to do with KAT's and Wiggins' attitude and relative immaturity as it has to do with Butler. That team should be a lot better defensively than it is. From what I understand Butler is a true grinder, and the other 2 are not. But if we had knowledgeable info that Butler is difficult to deal with, I certainly couldn't refute it.

The other thing is this- we all know about Clippers potential 2 max FA slots next offseason, but is it feasible to sign 2 max FA's and re-sign Harris? I am guessing we have Bird rights to Harris, but even if we did then we are really getting up there in payroll/tax/etc. I guess we'd really have to move Gallinari to make things easier.

[Clemenza]

A lot of this is just debatable stuff that we’ll go back and forth on—which is cool with me. But there are three things posted on here I strongly agree with:

• Butler is 30 and has already has injury issues. That takes Max money off the table
• For better or worse, Butler has had chemistry issues on teams that were pretty good. That concerns me; it kinda indicates to me he’s either not a leader, is part of the problem, or some of both.
• Flip Saunders, RIP. He was one of the really good guys in the NBA.

I think a max is the absolute rock bottom possible extension Butler will go for, if that is too much for the Clippers then there's no way they'll be able to trade and extend him. I think the Clippers will entertain a trade for Butler, but that contract extension is the biggest obstacle. If they were pretty sure (wink wink nudge nudge) that securing Butler would dramatically improve their chances at signing a big FA next offseason, I think they would lean towards a trade. But that's a purely speculative if, nothing more.

I think Butler's chemistry issues on the current team have as much to do with KAT's and Wiggins' attitude and relative immaturity as it has to do with Butler. That team should be a lot better defensively than it is. From what I understand Butler is a true grinder, and the other 2 are not. But if we had knowledgeable info that Butler is difficult to deal with, I certainly couldn't refute it.

The other thing is this- we all know about Clippers potential 2 max FA slots next offseason, but is it feasible to sign 2 max FA's and re-sign Harris? I am guessing we have Bird rights to Harris, but even if we did then we are really getting up there in payroll/tax/etc. I guess we'd really have to move Gallinari to make things easier.

True but Butler also didn't get along with teammates in Chicago either. There's definitely a red flag about him

[Galloisdaman]

Butler to Minny did seem like a total steal for Minny at that time but sometimes we (the public) do not know what is going on behind the scenes.