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Westbrook is here! How do we make this work?

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Re: Westbrook is coming! How do we make this work? 

Post#41 » by madmaxmedia » Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:54 am

nickhx2 wrote:btw i would wanna note that when you have a situation where the number of "ifs" required to make it work are beyond count

that's not a good thing


There are definitely basketball pros and cons here, and I agree with others concerns about how Ty is gonna use him. But TBH does Bones Hyland propel us to the conference finals this year? (as much as I want to see him play.)

One thing I’m fairly confident of is that Russ is not going disrupt our locker room. He needs this to work even more than we do, if he wants to find a decent situation next year.
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Re: Westbrook is coming! How do we make this work? 

Post#42 » by mttwlsn16 » Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:55 am

As long as he doesn't try to play hero ball, jacking up stupid 3s every night, I'm all for this. I think as a drive and kick PG he could really thrive here.

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Re: Westbrook is coming! How do we make this work? 

Post#43 » by esqtvd » Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:55 am

nickhx2 wrote:btw i would wanna note that when you have a situation where the number of "ifs" required to make it work are beyond count

that's not a good thing


It's a dice roll now but I agree the dice had to be rolled with the Suns getting Durant. And I'll never count out GSW, who pulled it off again last year. And we may have to get through the Mavs with Kyrie to boot and the Grizz and Nugs are always a meatgrinder too. The Grizz have won 5 of the last 7 against us and the Nugs have beaten us 8 out of the last 9.

I love the addition of Plumlee--even to the point of sacrificing my man Reggie--and EJ looks like he may be helpful but he's 34 years old, and he's not really a point guard either.


I like Powell and [yes!] I like Mann but their plus/minus stinks. And Batum is struggling too. [And Marcus is not the problem currently.]

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?LastNGames=10&TeamID=1610612746&dir=A&sort=PLUS_MINUS

[last 10 games]

Terance Mann -0.9
Nicolas Batum -3.0
Robert Covington -3.3
Norman Powell -3.3


It was right to push the panic button.
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Re: Westbrook is coming! How do we make this work? 

Post#44 » by ERClips » Tue Feb 21, 2023 2:11 am

If nothing else this signing shows that the Clippers are in it to win it. Against odds and some better teams we are not folding, taking chances and hopefully taking names
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Re: Westbrook is coming! How do we make this work? 

Post#45 » by donemilio21 » Tue Feb 21, 2023 2:29 am

This move basically means both RoCo and Coffey are gonna be benchwarmers most of the time, #12 and #13 in the rotation. They are both nothing but injury insurance at this point. RoCo was already easily averaging lowest minutes of his career this season, after having averaged lowest minutes in his career with us last year. I hope this doesn't cause issues in the locker room, especially if we are not winning.
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Re: Westbrook is coming! How do we make this work? 

Post#46 » by nickhx2 » Tue Feb 21, 2023 2:33 am

madmaxmedia wrote:
nickhx2 wrote:btw i would wanna note that when you have a situation where the number of "ifs" required to make it work are beyond count

that's not a good thing


There are definitely basketball pros and cons here, and I agree with others concerns about how Ty is gonna use him. But TBH does Bones Hyland propel us to the conference finals this year? (as much as I want to see him play.)

One thing I’m fairly confident of is that Russ is not going disrupt our locker room. He needs this to work even more than we do, if he wants to find a decent situation next year.


if people were out here saying "oh no, it's all over because bones isn't gonna get the burn he deserves" then you know, i suppose you could make that argument.

but i haven't seen it and i'm certainly not saying that myself. moreover, presented that way, that argument relies on a few things

a: bones doesn't contribute in just enough of a way to help us contend for WCF+
b: we didn't have the pieces before the westbrook addition to contend for WCF+
c: the addition is a straight up static VORP equation of a player's value added to the team that doesn't greatly impair other dynamics going on with the team.

so...

A - i mean, we don't know. like sure i'll go with not likely, and i'm sure most would agree. but maybe it coulda been enough? we can't really know. what we do know is that the second unit looks transformed, and that alone may have been enough to push the team over the top. and bones may have been just enough of a contributor to that that you can count him as an impact player in that regard.

B - i guess again, we don't really know. but that argument of bones vs westbrook still relies on that premise, and that's proving my point. and again, i'd point to the overall improvements over the past 3 games to say "well, sure looks like we fixed some of our biggest issues, and this team with few weaknesses is absolutely a contender." if you asked me, i'd say we were pretty much set and ready to go for the rest of the season.

C - honestly pretty exhausted going over all this stuff ad nauseum, not necessarily with you, just over the past couple weeks in general. but here i go again anyway. dumb turnovers. dumb shots in critical moments. stagnant offenses. players dorking around on defense. lue playing russell westbrook 35 MPG and mann his customary role-player 15mpg : why? "BECAUSE F*** ROBERT COVINGTON, AND NOW F*** TERANCE MANN, TOO, THAT'S WHY" - says ty lue. i could go on but, eh. i mean we fixed the thing, and then now we're re-introducing a worse version of reggie jackson to unfix the thing. adding westbrook spins all kinds of gears at once, a couple in an ok direction, but many others in the opposite.

like, sure it's only 3 games, but this was a totally different team in those three games. and now it's gonna be totally different again. and we have what, 21 games left? with a coach who's spent two years overplaying the wrong guys based off of namesake?

all of this is my idea of a bad time. it's one thing to take a gamble because you didn't have much choice anyway. and maybe before the trade deadline, i think we are at that point. but it's another to take a gamble when you're already doing well enough that if you simply don't mess with the program, you're in great shape. i think we clearly distanced ourselves from the former to be in the latter, and going backwards is just the absolute worst.
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Re: Westbrook is coming! How do we make this work? 

Post#47 » by clipperlover » Tue Feb 21, 2023 3:27 am

MartinToVaught wrote:Hopefully the fact that this might be his last chance in the NBA,.


What absolute nonsense. Westbrook AVERAGED a triple double two seasons ago. The guy can still play. Is he worth $47M? No, but he can still play. Mann is going to be able to pick up from Russ the intensity that will take him to another level.

If you actually look at Westbrook's numbers this season. A few things stand out:
1. When he has a positive +/-, the Lakers were 15-6 (14-2 with +4 or above).
2. When he had 5rbs or more in a game, the Lakers were 19-11.
3. When he had 8+ assists, the Lakers were 17-8.


Westbrook played 52 games for the Lakers this year and was on the roster for 55:
1. 0-3 without Westbrook
2. 3-7 with Westbrook and AD, LeBron out
3. 11-11 with Westbrook and LeBron, AD out
4. 1-3 with Westbrook, LeBron and AD out
5. 11-6 with Westbrook, LeBron and AD - Considering there are only 4 teams in the West 5 games above .500 currently

Russ will be an asset.
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Re: Westbrook is coming! How do we make this work? 

Post#48 » by UKClipperfan » Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:05 am

Well now that it's actually happening, we're gonna see if it's gonna work pretty soon. Around 10 games? I've seen him play a few times this season. He's not washed, still has alot to offer. Felt like he was shackled if anything, and the fit want there with that roster. On paper it should work, but championships aren't won on paper. It could backfire, who knows.

We probably weren't good enough to win the championship anyway, even after acquiring EJ, Plum and Bones, so I guess it's good the FO were willing to make this move. All in all, this is signing an MVP, multiple time all star, with multiple WCF & Finals appearances, to a vet min contact. That's as low risk high reward as you can get.
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Re: Westbrook is coming! How do we make this work? 

Post#49 » by playaloc916 » Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:08 am

madmaxmedia wrote:
nickhx2 wrote:btw i would wanna note that when you have a situation where the number of "ifs" required to make it work are beyond count

that's not a good thing


There are definitely basketball pros and cons here, and I agree with others concerns about how Ty is gonna use him. But TBH does Bones Hyland propel us to the conference finals this year? (as much as I want to see him play.)

One thing I’m fairly confident of is that Russ is not going disrupt our locker room. He needs this to work even more than we do, if he wants to find a decent situation next year.

I think Russ will end up having a similar outcome like Melo with the Blazers, which was to swallow his pride and focus on being a role player. I could be totally wrong, but my guess is he'll play "safe" so as to not rock the boat too much, and repair his reputation for his next contract.

The team basically got Russ for free. It gives the team options. If he plays well, it's a great value pickup and adds even more depth. If he sucks like 90% of people are predicting, he'll be out with an "injury" and it will be like he never joined the team. At least that's how I hope it turns out.
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Re: Westbrook is coming! How do we make this work? 

Post#50 » by MartinToVaught » Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:19 am

clipperlover wrote:
MartinToVaught wrote:Hopefully the fact that this might be his last chance in the NBA,.


What absolute nonsense. Westbrook AVERAGED a triple double two seasons ago. The guy can still play. Is he worth $47M? No, but he can still play. Mann is going to be able to pick up from Russ the intensity that will take him to another level.

If you actually look at Westbrook's numbers this season. A few things stand out:
1. When he has a positive +/-, the Lakers were 15-6 (14-2 with +4 or above).
2. When he had 5rbs or more in a game, the Lakers were 19-11.
3. When he had 8+ assists, the Lakers were 17-8.


Westbrook played 52 games for the Lakers this year and was on the roster for 55:
1. 0-3 without Westbrook
2. 3-7 with Westbrook and AD, LeBron out
3. 11-11 with Westbrook and LeBron, AD out
4. 1-3 with Westbrook, LeBron and AD out
5. 11-6 with Westbrook, LeBron and AD - Considering there are only 4 teams in the West 5 games above .500 currently

Russ will be an asset.

Let's be real now, Russ' reputation is at rock bottom and he's getting older. He's not Mr. Triple-Double anymore, but the knock on him now is that he still thinks he is and hasn't adjusted his game. If he comes in here, still refuses to adjust his game, and plays poorly, I wouldn't be surprised if teams are reluctant to give him any more chances after that, especially with all the media and fan toxicity that seems to come with him.

You are right about his intensity, though. That's one thing I've always liked about Russ and it's a dimension that our lethargic and old team desperately needs.
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Re: Westbrook is coming! How do we make this work? 

Post#51 » by playaloc916 » Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:19 am

esqtvd wrote:
Read on Twitter

As much as I like Bev, I'd still take the gamble on Russ too. The biggest asset Bev brings is morale, rather than actual on court production. Good for a young team, but for a team competing for a title, its on court production that matters the most.
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Re: Westbrook is coming! How do we make this work? 

Post#52 » by TrueLAfan » Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:07 pm

Russ played well for the Lakers this year. He provides two things we desperately need, especially on our bench; passing and rebounding. The Lakers are so poor from the perimeter and don't have strong scoring from the bench in general. It's the worst possible scenario for Westbrook, who couldn't slash to the basket as often because the interior was
more clogged. He couldn't pass it out to perimeter players to schoot and score because ... not many of them could shoot and score. On paper, the Clippers are a (much) better fit.

I hope Westbrook will be able to give up some of his shooting/scoring tendencies. He's shooting less than before, which is good--he should reduce it further. He was a 16-6-7.5 guy in 29 mpg. If he "drops" to 25 mpg, and puts up 13-5-6, he'll make us (much) better.
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Re: Westbrook is coming! How do we make this work? 

Post#53 » by clipperlover » Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:29 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:Let's be real now, Russ' reputation is at rock bottom and he's getting older. He's not Mr. Triple-Double anymore, but the knock on him now is that he still thinks he is and hasn't adjusted his game. If he comes in here, still refuses to adjust his game, and plays poorly, I wouldn't be surprised if teams are reluctant to give him any more chances after that, especially with all the media and fan toxicity that seems to come with him.

You are right about his intensity, though. That's one thing I've always liked about Russ and it's a dimension that our lethargic and old team desperately needs.


Russ was #1 in the NBA in triple doubles in 20-21 (38), #4 in 2021-2022 (4) and #5 this year (4). This year, he has the same as Harden, 1 less than Ja and 1 more than LaMelo. 16, 7.5 and 6 aren't bad numbers. They just aren't $47M yr numbers. Those numbers were playing alongside Lebron and AD.

Here is how they would rank for us:
Pts - #4
Rbs - #2
Asts - #1
Stls - Tied for 3rd

Russ isn't a 3 pt shooter, but that is fine. We waste too many good scoring opportunities relying on the 3. Russ will attack and then dump to Zu or Plumlee for easy buckets. Then, Mann can do the same. Russ will bring the intensity and open the floor.

Highlights from his last game:
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Re: Westbrook is coming! How do we make this work? 

Post#54 » by donemilio21 » Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:53 pm

from Law Murray:

Leonard is the reason why the Clippers should feel better about Westbrook’s presence than his other previous teams. Westbrook may start games, but he is not going to be promised to finish them. Leonard was not an All-Star, but he still has a healthy chance for an All-NBA selection with the way he has played since he last missed consecutive games in early December. This isn’t Westbrook’s team. This is Leonard and George’s team, and the success of the Clippers will be determined by the two star wings. Westbrook’s impact shouldn’t cost the Clippers games because Leonard and George are leading the team on the floor.

It will be easy for some to compare Westbrook’s potential impact to that of Wall, who is the same archetype of point guard. After all, Westbrook and Wall were both traded for each other in the 2020 offseason. But the roster is better suited for Westbrook than it was for Wall, especially in the second unit.

Wall struggled in three-guard lineups, and the defensive deficiencies of sixth man Norman Powell, the departed Luke Kennard and Wall were exposed. Westbrook is better defensively than Wall, Gordon is better defensively than Kennard and Westbrook is a stronger rebounder than Wall as well. The addition of Mason Plumlee allows the Clippers to stay big if Ivica Zubac is off the floor, which was not the case when Wall was on the team.
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Re: Westbrook is coming! How do we make this work? 

Post#55 » by Clemenza » Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:00 pm

UKClipperfan wrote:Well now that it's actually happening, we're gonna see if it's gonna work pretty soon. Around 10 games? I've seen him play a few times this season. He's not washed, still has alot to offer. Felt like he was shackled if anything, and the fit want there with that roster. On paper it should work, but championships aren't won on paper. It could backfire, who knows.

We probably weren't good enough to win the championship anyway, even after acquiring EJ, Plum and Bones, so I guess it's good the FO were willing to make this move. All in all, this is signing an MVP, multiple time all star, with multiple WCF & Finals appearances, to a vet min contact. That's as low risk high reward as you can get.

This was the key question right here as I too wondered, even with the new additions playing well, if we had enough to come out the west. We got Russ for basically nothing while the Lakers gave up their best role players and a couple of first rounders to acquire him and to get rid of him. Its still a low risk high reward scenario. Basically he just needs to have a better shot selection not to mention he was playing pretty good with the Lakers this season. He was the only guy on the floor trying to win the game where Bron broke Kareem's record to become the all time leading scorer.. that's for sure.
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Re: Westbrook is coming! How do we make this work? 

Post#56 » by clipperlover » Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:35 pm

So, Russ clears waivers tomorrow and can officially sign. We don't play until Friday night and that is at home vs SAC. So, we get some practice time with him. Then, we have a 3 road games in 5 days with no game farther away than Denver.

After that, we have 11 of our last 16 at home (where we haven't played up to par). It starts with a stretch of 5 and 9 of 10 at home. We have 1 back to back during that entire stretch.

While we don't have much time to make up numbers in the loss column, we have a great shot of securing the #3 spot. Not only do they have us twice, they have 5 of the top 6 teams in the East also (including 1 and 2) and the Suns twice. They have 25 games left with 13 on the road.

We have an outside shot at #2. Memphis is 6 games under .500 on the road and 13 of their last 25 are on the road. We play them 3 times with 2 of those in Memphis. We sweep them and we can pull the #2 if they don't get better on the road. They haven't won a road game since Jan 14. 1-7 in their last 8 road games.

Russ is coming at a good time.
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Re: Westbrook is coming! How do we make this work? 

Post#57 » by donemilio21 » Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:52 pm

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Re: Westbrook is coming! How do we make this work? 

Post#58 » by donemilio21 » Tue Feb 21, 2023 7:00 pm

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/clippers-become-latest-nba-team-to-fall-victim-to-theoretical-idea-of-russell-westbrook/

Everyone makes this out to be an attack on Westbrook the person, or an attack on his career as a whole. That's not what any of this is about. He can be a great guy and a future Hall of Famer and a detrimental player in 2023. All those things can be true. By most every account, they are true. Where teams get in trouble is allowing the sentimentality of the first two to somehow cancel out the current reality of the last one.

I think this is very well put. PG and other players wanted Westbrook on the team not necessarily thinking about his fit. The FO and coaching staff should have put their foot down.

For Lue I see the appeal. If we didn't sign him, he'd have an excuse of not having a traditional point guard/playmaker. Now he has the excuse that Westbrook was a horrible fit and was brought on because the players wanted him. He at least must have learned that from Doc. :D
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Re: Westbrook is coming! How do we make this work? 

Post#59 » by The High Cyde » Tue Feb 21, 2023 7:22 pm

I think the weight of this season is evenly split between the FO on one side and Ty and the players on the other. FO has made sure to address roster issues while also assuaging the wills of their stars in filling some of those spots, over the years and even just now in Westy. Who I hope takes all of Marcus Morris’ minutes. Russ at least adds rebounding and passing at the bare minimum.
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Re: Westbrook is coming! How do we make this work? 

Post#60 » by nickhx2 » Tue Feb 21, 2023 8:02 pm

slept on it

hate it even more. the idea of lue using half our remaining season to experiment when the team is still desperately needing to build chemistry is utterly wretched. not to mention that it looked better than it ever did over the last 3 games

what can you do? that's sports i guess

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