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Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas)

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Hopefully, West Working on DJ Package for PG13 

Post#501 » by Ranma » Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:20 am

As futile as it may be, I'm going to do some spitballing to devise a strategy of putting together a feasible offer that may appeal to the Pacers. Before I do that, I have to acknowledge that the Celtics have the sheer firepower to blow any offer we present out of the water. We can only hope that Paul George's desire to play in L.A. would cause him pause in being reluctant to pay a premium price for a rental player. I'm also going to use the theoretical proposal from the Warriors cited in the article below as a framework for a Clippers offer.

First, I noticed that the Pacers drafted UCLA big men with both of their draft picks in the just concluded draft in power forward T.J. Leaf (first round) and center Ike Anigbogu (second round), so I'll assume that they would like a big man to man the paint in order to allow Myles Turner to play the PF spot. DeAndre Jordan should fit the bill here, although his player option for 2018-19 might present concerns for Indiana.

Now Draymond Green is a better player now, but DJ is more accomplished than either Draymond or Harrison Barnes were at the time Kevin Love was traded from Minnesota. A future draft pick could be the Clippers 2020 first-round selection, though I'd be loathe to give that up unless PG13 agreed to a T&E (trade-and-extend) deal.

Now since we are lacking much in the way of assets outside of Austin Barnes and Jamal Crawford (as an expiring deal with a team option for 2018-19), this proposal hinges on getting something for Blake Griffin in a S&T (sign-and-trade) deal. While teams may be reluctant to give Griffin a full max offer, the projected reduction in the salary cap could play in our favor if teams are competing for his services while trying to fit him under their payroll.

Maybe we can get draft picks or a young player like Justice Winslow, Jaylen Brown, or Jae Crowder from Miami or Boston to facilitate a deal for either of those two teams to build up a team to compete in the East. If the Celtics prefer to go with Griffin and Gordon Hayward instead of pairing George and Hayward due to PG's aforementioned desire to come "home", we could be in position to leverage the situation to extract the necessary asset(s) to help put together a package with DJ that might appeal to the Pacers.

I acknowledge this is a longshot and contingent upon factors outside of our control, but it is at least a pathway to a possibility.


Kevin O' Connor, TheRinger.com (6/26/17)
The Pacers find themselves in virtually the same spot that the Timberwolves were when they traded Kevin Love to the Cavs for the 2014 no. 1 pick (Andrew Wiggins), the 2013 no. 1 pick (Anthony Bennett), and Thaddeus Young (from the Sixers). Love was set to hit free agency in 2015, so the return was muted, though Minnesota was still able to create enough leverage to get something of value. Wiggins has developed into a solid player, but the deal pales in comparison to what one league front-office executive told me was on the table at the time from the Warriors: Draymond Green and Harrison Barnes, plus a draft pick. Zach Lowe reported a similar trade structure in 2015 at Grantland. The Wolves obviously would’ve been better off taking the deal with younger players and a pick, rather than all draft picks. Green is clearly the best player in that deal, and Barnes, still only 25, is currently better than Wiggins.
...

The Pacers would be wise to target a package that resembles what the Warriors might have offered the Wolves back in 2014: a mixture of players entering their primes and future picks. The problem is finding a team capable and willing to do it. Fortunately for the Pacers, two of the handful of teams reportedly interested in George could meet those criteria.

The Clippers could dangle DeAndre Jordan, but they don’t have much else. The Cavaliers would have to flip Love for assets, unless the Pacers are fine with running on the playoff treadmill of mediocrity. The Wizards don’t have much to offer other than a sign-and-trade involving Otto Porter. However, both the Rockets and Celtics can put together a mixed bag of assets, greater than any other team rumored to be chasing George. Houston has tradable veterans like Ryan Anderson, Eric Gordon, and Patrick Beverley, and younger talents like Clint Capela and Sam Dekker. Similarly, the Celtics have Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, Marcus Smart, and a long list of future draft picks they can put on the table.

Paul George, Blake Griffin, and More Unanswered NBA Questions
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Re: Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas) 

Post#502 » by ejftw » Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:21 am

With George and Doc's off court issues, would he really be a good get unless we get a new coach?

Which is something I want anyway.
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Daddy Doesn't Know Best 

Post#503 » by Ranma » Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:02 pm

ejftw wrote:With George and Doc's off court issues, would he really be a good get unless we get a new coach?

Which is something I want anyway.


While Jerry West made a point to emphasize that he's here to help and not replace, the hope is to have Doc pushed out of the influential role of decision-making with West reporting directly to owner Steve Ballmer. The general consensus on this board seems to be that we'd be fine with Doc just focusing on his coaching duties with more qualified and competent people doing the front office wheeling and dealings, which is why we're all hoping to bring in son of the Logo, Ryan West, as well as possibly former Cavs GM David Griffin after his contract expires on July 1st.

Like you said, if the complications of Doc and PG13 causes pushes Doc further out the door, all the better. With Golden State's projected dominance over the next few years, we may be better off going through a transitioning period as we attempt a sort of rebuild on the fly by pursuing different star players.


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Ranma wrote:While teams may be reluctant to give Griffin a full max offer, the projected reduction in the salary cap could play in our favor if teams are competing for his services while trying to fit him under their payroll.

Maybe we can get draft picks or a young player like Justice Winslow, Jaylen Brown, or Jae Crowder from Miami or Boston to facilitate a deal for either of those two teams to build up a team to compete in the East. If the Celtics prefer to go with Griffin and Gordon Hayward instead of pairing George and Hayward due to PG's aforementioned desire to come "home", we could be in position to leverage the situation to extract the necessary asset(s) to help put together a package with DJ that might appeal to the Pacers.
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Re: Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas) 

Post#504 » by Don Tommy » Sat Jul 1, 2017 6:49 pm

What about this trade? DJ to the Celtics for Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder and Jordan Mickey, plus our 2019 first back. That get the center they need that frees up Horford to play the stretch 4, and we have Beverly and Bradley as our back court. This gives us two defensive minded players to offset the chuckers that are slated to come off our bench.
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Re: Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas) 

Post#505 » by Neddy » Sat Jul 1, 2017 10:51 pm

Don Tommy wrote:What about this trade? DJ to the Celtics for Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder and Jordan Mickey, plus our 2019 first back. That get the center they need that frees up Horford to play the stretch 4, and we have Beverly and Bradley as our back court. This gives us two defensive minded players to offset the chuckers that are slated to come off our bench.


I love the idea, except we should still dump those chuckers.

also, I don't think Doc's gonna go get a 2 guard. he will start his son no matter what. but Avery and Patrick backcourt will be not only great defensively but they both can shoot the spot up 3 ball, which would compliment Blake's game well.

Patrick Beverly - Avery Bradley - Jae Crowder - Blake Griffin will be a pretty potent lineup. but who plays center? should we run Blake out there as a small ball 5 and surround him with 4 catch and shoot players? his wingspan really comes to hinder our plans...
ehhhhh f it.
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Re: Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas) 

Post#506 » by og15 » Sat Jul 1, 2017 11:47 pm

Don Tommy wrote:What about this trade? DJ to the Celtics for Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder and Jordan Mickey, plus our 2019 first back. That get the center they need that frees up Horford to play the stretch 4, and we have Beverly and Bradley as our back court. This gives us two defensive minded players to offset the chuckers that are slated to come off our bench.

Don't know if that is worth if for Boston, but Ainge doesn't seem to want to make any trades unless he's getting back draft picks. A lot of rumors, but Boston doesn't do anything.
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Re: Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas) 

Post#507 » by Don Tommy » Sun Jul 2, 2017 7:47 am

Neddy wrote:
Don Tommy wrote:What about this trade? DJ to the Celtics for Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder and Jordan Mickey, plus our 2019 first back. That get the center they need that frees up Horford to play the stretch 4, and we have Beverly and Bradley as our back court. This gives us two defensive minded players to offset the chuckers that are slated to come off our bench.


I love the idea, except we should still dump those chuckers.

also, I don't think Doc's gonna go get a 2 guard. he will start his son no matter what. but Avery and Patrick backcourt will be not only great defensively but they both can shoot the spot up 3 ball, which would compliment Blake's game well.

Patrick Beverly - Avery Bradley - Jae Crowder - Blake Griffin will be a pretty potent lineup. but who plays center? should we run Blake out there as a small ball 5 and surround him with 4 catch and shoot players? his wingspan really comes to hinder our plans...


I'm not so worried about center. Towards the end of free agency there are always bigs available cheap. Cole one year, I think Mo was signed late last year as well. Would Bogut come cheap, and could Clipper fans stomach rooting for him? Javele McGee is already DJ lite, take a chance on him? Jared Sullinger, is he healthy? I think there can be cheap options found, or Lou Williams can be used to help get one.
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Re: Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas) 

Post#508 » by Don Tommy » Sun Jul 2, 2017 7:50 am

og15 wrote:
Don Tommy wrote:What about this trade? DJ to the Celtics for Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder and Jordan Mickey, plus our 2019 first back. That get the center they need that frees up Horford to play the stretch 4, and we have Beverly and Bradley as our back court. This gives us two defensive minded players to offset the chuckers that are slated to come off our bench.

Don't know if that is worth if for Boston, but Ainge doesn't seem to want to make any trades unless he's getting back draft picks. A lot of rumors, but Boston doesn't do anything.


The guys on Off the Dribble on NBA Radio were talking about Ainge as I was driving into work tonight, that he feels like he has to win a trade, even if it means losing out on guys like Butler and George. This is basically the same trade they were talking about making for George if the rumors are believed, and the Pacers said no cause they wanted one of the top 5 picks Boston is hoarding. We may see faults in DJ but he was still an All Star last year, three straight years making an All NBA team, and a great rebounder. Hell, he's my favorite player on the team. But I love the idea of instead of matching up against GSW with shooters, throw a strong D at them instead.
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Re: Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas) 

Post#509 » by Neddy » Sun Jul 2, 2017 5:13 pm

Don Tommy wrote:
Neddy wrote:
Don Tommy wrote:What about this trade? DJ to the Celtics for Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder and Jordan Mickey, plus our 2019 first back. That get the center they need that frees up Horford to play the stretch 4, and we have Beverly and Bradley as our back court. This gives us two defensive minded players to offset the chuckers that are slated to come off our bench.


I love the idea, except we should still dump those chuckers.

also, I don't think Doc's gonna go get a 2 guard. he will start his son no matter what. but Avery and Patrick backcourt will be not only great defensively but they both can shoot the spot up 3 ball, which would compliment Blake's game well.

Patrick Beverly - Avery Bradley - Jae Crowder - Blake Griffin will be a pretty potent lineup. but who plays center? should we run Blake out there as a small ball 5 and surround him with 4 catch and shoot players? his wingspan really comes to hinder our plans...


I'm not so worried about center. Towards the end of free agency there are always bigs available cheap. Cole one year, I think Mo was signed late last year as well. Would Bogut come cheap, and could Clipper fans stomach rooting for him? Javele McGee is already DJ lite, take a chance on him? Jared Sullinger, is he healthy? I think there can be cheap options found, or Lou Williams can be used to help get one.


I can't believe how de-valued centers are getting in this current soft- league. I miss the old NBA where guys like Robert Parish, Bill Laimbeer, Charles Oakley, Hakeem Olajuwan used to roam.

back to the topic, you are right that picking up a center has become easier than ever. (which also doesn't sit well with me. it used to be that this league was built in-side-out, but now it is the very opposite.) and with small ball philosophies, starting centers are mere a name on the lineup card. it would be nice to have some goddamn rim protection, but I wouldn't mind running out Diamond Stone just to hear his name get announced to start every game.
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Re: Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas) 

Post#510 » by Don Tommy » Mon Jul 3, 2017 8:36 am

And that's why we've always gotten along. Can you imagine what they would say about guys like Kareem, Moses Malone, and Bill Russell if they played now?
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Re: Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas) 

Post#511 » by shrink » Sun Jul 9, 2017 1:22 pm

Any interest in bringing Cole Aldrich back? He's not needed by the Wolves, and they need depth. Otherwise they could hang onto him until the trade deadline, and trade him to a team that wants more 2018 cap space.

I was thinking about Aldrich for Wes Johnson, plus some value. Aldrich contract (and play) is better than Wes.

Aldrich: $7.3 ... $6.95 mil TEAM option, $2 mil guaranteed
Johnson: $5,881,260 ... $6,134,520 PLAYER option

Salary matching would allow the LAC package to go up to $12.3

Any thoughts on how to bring Cole back to LA?
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Re: Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas) 

Post#512 » by Neddy » Sun Jul 9, 2017 5:37 pm

Don Tommy wrote:And that's why we've always gotten along. Can you imagine what they would say about guys like Kareem, Moses Malone, and Bill Russell if they played now?


Bill Russell may not even be in the league, as 6-9 defensive centers are not valued today. Kareem will probably have a place as he was a great offensive player, and his skyhook is timeless. Moese Malone might dominate any center today and punish them in low post. problem is, guards nowadays won't give him a pass to get the job done. and that Barkley rule David Stern introduced which limits how long a low post player can back up somebody, will majorly affect his game too. but physically? he will dominate. I think Laimbeer would be the one that may still excel. he was one of the very few centers with a legitimate 3 point range, good pick and roll player with Thomas/Dumars which were one of the early combo guards starting. they were smaller, but along with Hawkins/Dawkins, they weren't too many two starting guards who both can dribble and lead an offense back then.
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Re: Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas) 

Post#513 » by Don Tommy » Sun Jul 9, 2017 5:55 pm

shrink wrote:Any interest in bringing Cole Aldrich back? He's not needed by the Wolves, and they need depth. Otherwise they could hang onto him until the trade deadline, and trade him to a team that wants more 2018 cap space.

I was thinking about Aldrich for Wes Johnson, plus some value. Aldrich contract (and play) is better than Wes.

Aldrich: $7.3 ... $6.95 mil TEAM option, $2 mil guaranteed
Johnson: $5,881,260 ... $6,134,520 PLAYER option

Salary matching would allow the LAC package to go up to $12.3

Any thoughts on how to bring Cole back to LA?



What about the TE we got from the Chris Paul trade? I know it was over $7 million but not sure how much over
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Re: Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas) 

Post#514 » by Neddy » Sun Jul 9, 2017 7:37 pm

Don Tommy wrote:
shrink wrote:Any interest in bringing Cole Aldrich back? He's not needed by the Wolves, and they need depth. Otherwise they could hang onto him until the trade deadline, and trade him to a team that wants more 2018 cap space.

I was thinking about Aldrich for Wes Johnson, plus some value. Aldrich contract (and play) is better than Wes.

Aldrich: $7.3 ... $6.95 mil TEAM option, $2 mil guaranteed
Johnson: $5,881,260 ... $6,134,520 PLAYER option

Salary matching would allow the LAC package to go up to $12.3

Any thoughts on how to bring Cole back to LA?



What about the TE we got from the Chris Paul trade? I know it was over $7 million but not sure how much over


hold on, wasn't Wes drafted by the Wolves? why would they try him again?

but I would love to go get Cole. he was great for us. loved his defense and pick and roll plays.
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G.O.A.T. Winner 

Post#515 » by Ranma » Sun Jul 9, 2017 8:17 pm

Neddy wrote:Bill Russell may not even be in the league, as 6-9 defensive centers are not valued today. Kareem will probably have a place as he was a great offensive player, and his skyhook is timeless. Moese Malone might dominate any center today and punish them in low post. problem is, guards nowadays won't give him a pass to get the job done. and that Barkley rule David Stern introduced which limits how long a low post player can back up somebody, will majorly affect his game too. but physically? he will dominate. I think Laimbeer would be the one that may still excel. he was one of the very few centers with a legitimate 3 point range, good pick and roll player with Thomas/Dumars which were one of the early combo guards starting. they were smaller, but along with Hawkins/Dawkins, they weren't too many two starting guards who both can dribble and lead an offense back then.


I'm going to have to disagree about Bill Russell. If Ben Wallace could do it, then Russell could. Russell may have been only 6-9 but he was a noted leaper and had huge length in his limbs with a 7'4" wingspan and huge hands. Let's also not forget that he went toe-to-toe with the dominant force in the league back then in Wilt Chamberlain and usually got the better of him. He was the ultimate team player and winner as the epitome of the Celtics' dynasty.

He won 11 NBA titles as a player as well as 2 NCAA championships. He also won 2 NBA championships as a coach. On top of that,
he won 2 state high school championships despite starting out as a raw player who didn't understand the game by being cut from his junior high team and almost cut again as a high school freshman.

I would not hesitate for a single moment to have Bill Russell in his prime be our starting center even in today's game. In fact, I think his worth in today's game would be even more valuable with so much small ball going around and 7-footers gravitating towards the 3-point line. He'd be much better than Draymond Green despite not having his perimeter offensive skills.

If he needed to, I'm sure Russell would developed a perimeter game, but he never needed to with the teammates he had dominating the league back then. Russell was not only a physically athletic freak of nature, but he was also intelligent and indomitably determined to do whatever it took to win. If you can't tell, I'm a bit of a fan.


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Re: Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas) 

Post#516 » by Neddy » Sun Jul 9, 2017 8:43 pm

^well the importance of Bill Russell can be argued and debated in every which way possible and it will never end.

what I will point out, but the large degree of separation of how the games have changed. Russell played in an era where there was no 3 point shots, the shot clock was just introduced a year before he was a rookie, only 8 teams in the league and only 1 guy who was a 7 footer, and only 4 other guys between him and the 7 footer. probably had the longest wingspan, and he shot Shaq-like free throws.

now my counter argument I can make, is that if you were to take the best players from this era and put them in the 50s league with 50s rules and referees, every dribble by Curry or Durant will be called for carrying immediately, as would MJ.

Bill Russell is undoubtedly one of the greatest of all time and best defensive center of his time, but as DonTommy and I were discussing about this, these soft kids nowadays wouldn't have lasted a season in the 80s rough and tough inside low post dominant league. I don't think Russell's game would have translated to today's game, with today's rules with today's referees. but again, debating between the greats of different era is essentially, comparing apples to oranges.
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Re: Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas) 

Post#517 » by shrink » Sun Jul 9, 2017 11:40 pm

Neddy wrote:
Don Tommy wrote:
shrink wrote:Any interest in bringing Cole Aldrich back? He's not needed by the Wolves, and they need depth. Otherwise they could hang onto him until the trade deadline, and trade him to a team that wants more 2018 cap space.

I was thinking about Aldrich for Wes Johnson, plus some value. Aldrich contract (and play) is better than Wes.

Aldrich: $7.3 ... $6.95 mil TEAM option, $2 mil guaranteed
Johnson: $5,881,260 ... $6,134,520 PLAYER option

Salary matching would allow the LAC package to go up to $12.3

Any thoughts on how to bring Cole back to LA?



What about the TE we got from the Chris Paul trade? I know it was over $7 million but not sure how much over


hold on, wasn't Wes drafted by the Wolves? why would they try him again?

but I would love to go get Cole. he was great for us. loved his defense and pick and roll plays.

Yes, and Kahn even gave up a first to get out of Wes' contract, because he had miscounted the cap space he needed to make a free agent offer, and needed to squeeze a little more! If you send Wes, MIN would want some value back, because Cole > Wes.

As for using part of the TPE, I think MIN would take that. It would become cap space for the team, and they could try to fill the bench hole on their team out of the remaining talent in free agency. Otherwise, all they can offer these players is the vet minimum.

EDIT: I just checked. If ESPN has it right, your Chris Paul trade exception is $7,273,631. Aldrich makes $7,300,000. However, even though the ESPN Trade Machine disallows it, Larry Coon says you get to add $100,000. So therefore, any player you sent our way could get you a TPE too.

Larry Coon - CBAFAQ.com wrote:In the above example, following the initial trade of the $2 million player for the $1 million player, it was like the team had a $1 million "credit" which was good for one year2, with which they could acquire salaries without having to send out salaries to match. As with simultaneous trades, teams are allowed to acquire an extra $100,000 -- so a $1 million credit can be used to acquire $1.1 million in salaries.
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Re: Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas) 

Post#518 » by PerkinsFor3 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:40 am

Sign torrey craig, forget luc mbah a moute
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Re: Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas) 

Post#519 » by jayu70 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:34 pm

Hawks fan here:
Bleacher report had this article and trade idea:
Atlanta Hawks Receive: SF Wesley Johnson, PG/SG Lou Williams, PF Kyle Wiltjer
Los Angeles Clippers Receive: SG/SF Kent Bazemore

They need another wing even after adding Danilo Gallinari. J.J. Redick left for the Philadelphia 76ers, they shipped out Jamal Crawford, and the Clippers hard-capped themselves in the Gallinari sign-and-trade, making it more difficult to keep Luc Mbah a Moute.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2721018-impact-moves-teams-should-still-pursue-during-nba-offseason

Thoughts??
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Re: Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas) 

Post#520 » by nickhx2 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:14 pm

sure

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