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The Board Man Cometh!! Kawhi Leonard Signs 3 Year (2+1), $103 Million Deal

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Counterpoints 

Post#501 » by Ranma » Wed May 8, 2019 2:09 am

Personally, I appreciate Tomhomes33's civil contributions in providing Raptors fans' perspective on the Kawhi situation. It helps to allow us to have realistic expectations on the matter. In any case, I'm going to respond to the Raptors fans' list.

Tomhomes33 wrote:As Raptors fan who comes in piece I find this hillariois (copy paste from Raptors board)
but half of it is true:)

The reasons Kawhi stays and does not join Clippers


- More money
True but negligible given AAV differential is at $2.75 million. Plus, the tax rate in Canada is still higher than California's.
- Clips don't have anyone as good as Siakam
True but Clippers also have flexibility to add another 1st-tier free agent like Durant.
- East isn't as loaded top to bottom
True but road to championship may be more difficult if KD goes to East and still have to deal with Bucks and 76ers, especially if Kawhi continues to single-handedly carry Raptors in postseason.
- Better fanbase
I'm not sure about that. Die-hard Clippers fans have been around for years even before the Raptors' inception. Having entire nation unite behind Kawhi is impressive but having true-blue, long-time fans in his hometown area is also appealing.
- Nobody cares about the Clippers in LA or the rest of the league
While that might be true in Los Angeles where Lakers fans severely outnumber Clippers fans, this regular season and postseason has opened up eyes on the Clippers among NBA fans across the nation.
- Raptors have one of the best training staffs in the league and will do whatever you want
I'll have to concede this point given our own possibly questionable staff and what the Raptors have done to cater to Kawhi's needs during his rehabilitation of the quad injury.
- Nick Nurse is a chill coach that won't yell at you or embarrass you and wants your feedback
Nurse has done an impressive job and, while I'm not exactly Doc's biggest fan, Rivers is actually adept at managing stars and getting everyone on the same page to win.
- You already live in SoCal in the offseason why not have the best of both worlds and have a 50/50 split
That might appeal to a free-swinging bachelor, but Kawhi is big on family and both his and his baby mama's family reside in Southern California. Having his family close by at all times for support would serve him well, especially in raising his children.
- You're already on pace of being the best player for a franchise ever and could break most of the franchise records possibly
Kawhi could do even more or have an easier time continuing on such a pace with more support with a team better equipped to provide him with such help in breaking records for the Clippers. And he could conceivably be the first player ever to have his jersey retired by the Clippers franchise.
- The media is chill and won't harass you or bug you
I'm going to concede this one even though coverage of the Clippers has not nearly been as much of a circus as it has been with the Lakers. Plus, having TMZ's headquarters in L.A. doesn't help our cause in that respect either.
- You have burgeoning friendships with Powell, Lowry, Ibaka and Danny Green if he comes back is a long time friend
I'm not familiar enough with Kawhi's relationships with those aforementioned Raptors teammates but it seems to me that Lowry is still mourning over the loss of his good buddy DeRozan. Ibaka is a weird dude with a phallic obsession feeding Kawhi bull-penis pizza when he's not punching opponents in their junk.
- Won't have police officers trying to shoot you because you're black
I might have to concede this one slightly but Kawhi is a celebrity and LAPD wouldn't dare risk laying a finger on him.
- Weed is legal
It's also legal here in Southern California now.
- Away from family and friends bugging you for tickets and you can only concentrate on basketball
That's not a selling point because all indications on Kawhi is that he is big on family with that being likely his top priority in determining his decision in free agency.
- Monas parties
I have no idea who or what this is. Also, if Kawhi is interested in partying, which I doubt he is, I don't think he could do much better than having access to the abundant Hollywood parties or the social scene in Los Angeles.
- Drakes parties
Drake seems a bit of a d-bag and/or overzealous fanboy. Dude sings about Lou Williams's two girlfriends, then proceeds to engage in an affair with one of them breaking up the amicable love triangle.
- Team is willing to go over the cap and spend on luxury tax
Have you met Mr. Ballmer? Clippers would be too for the right situation.
- We have the assets to trade for Anthony Davis
So do the Clippers and I would argue more so than the Raptors unless you're willing to give up Pascal Siakam.
- Lowry, Gasol and Ibaka are coming off the books next year and we can add some real talent beside you and Siakam
For whatever reason, Toronto has had problems attracting premier free agents in the past. Hopefully, that will change but not at the Clippers' expense. In any case, the Raptors can create salary cap space for the summer of 2020 but the Clippers can do so right now for the upcoming summer where there will be the most anticipated class of premier free agents available for quite some time. The Clippers are already considered by most to be the destination franchise for star players.
- No Earthquakes
True. Nothing we can do about mother nature, though there hasn't been any major instances for quite some time. Having said that, Kawhi should be well aware of the risks and used to them having grown up in So. Cal.
- To much exposure to sun can give you a greater risk at skin cancer
True but Kawhi should be able to afford the necessary amount of sunscreen needed to mitigate such risks and the benefit of more comfortable sunny climate outweighs the minor inconvenience of having to apply protection, which is exhibited by most people preferring to vacation in such climates over colder ones.
- Won't be playing in Lebrons shadow in the same city
Maybe but LeBron's shadow ain't what it used to be. King James is actually now a part of arguably the NBA's most dysfunctional organization in the Lakers and things don't look to get better for them at the moment. Plus, he's older and continues to age at 34 years old with 2 more years and an option for a 3rd on his current contract.
- They don't have Jurassic Park
I'm not entirely familiar with the Raptors' Jurassic Park but I'll concede this point given that the Clippers share the Staples Center with the Lakers and are currently dealing with legal issues with regards to their own stadium project in Inglewood.
- Don't have to wear the same jersey all the time
I'm not a fan of the Clippers' jerseys or sloppily constructed rebranded logo, so I'll concede this point for now.
- Don't have to deal with some crazy eccentric owner
Steve Ballmer may be excitable and demonstrably enthusiastic but he's the kind of owner most, if not every, team should want. He's the richest owner in North American professional sports and also engaged as well as willing to let top basketball people do their jobs and invest in the team's success. What exactly is the problem here?
- Better downtown core that has everything you need and is easier accessible
I'll take your word for it having ventured to Downtown Los Angeles myself and not being particularly impressed.
- Winter clothes expand your wardrobe and make your fashion more impressive
While I agree that tends to be true, it gets both cold and sunny in California so Kawhi's wardrobe should be even more expansive having to account for different seasonal weather. Plus, one can expand one's wardrobe through variances of style in similar articles of clothing.
- Toronto more diverse
I'm not sure about that. Los Angeles is one of the most diverse communities in the world given it's reputation for being a melting pot of culture and race.
- No Trump
Unfortunately true, but that should only be temporary with maybe a year or so under Trump influence.
- Next to no annoying Laker fans here
True but they're everywhere. The problem is Los Angeles is indeed ground zero for that particular affliction.
- Clippers best player is a 6th man in his early 30's
I've personally argued that Danilo Gallinari has been the Clippers' best player this season, but the point stands. However, that would no longer be the case if Kawhi joined the Clips and his arrival would increase the likelihood of bringing in more stars (likely better than Siakam) to join him in Los Angeles whether that'd be Kevin Durant, Anthony Davis or even the recently bandied about Klay Thompson.
- Doc Rivers has been rumored to possibly leave and could bail if things don't work
False. Doc just signed an extension after the Clippers were eliminated from the playoffs and stated, for the record, that he plans on being here until Ballmer tells him to get out.
- 1 less road game in front of those unruly Spurs fans in San Antonio
I don't know but I'll go ahead and concede that point.
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Klawsome Cuts 

Post#502 » by Ranma » Wed May 8, 2019 4:05 am

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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#503 » by Tomhomes33 » Wed May 8, 2019 9:30 am

Did not have any intention to trash your board. I found those reasons more funny than anything else.
Thought some points are a really good laugh:)
However, I am certain Kawhi wants to be the man rather than to share spotlight with KD or LBJ.
It will be either Raptors or Clippers. If somehow Kawhi leads Raps to the ring, I dint even mind he leaves for LA:)
It will be interesting summer though
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#504 » by mttwlsn16 » Wed May 8, 2019 11:42 am

Tomhomes33 wrote:Did not have any intention to trash your board. I found those reasons more funny than anything else.
Thought some points are a really good laugh:)
However, I am certain Kawhi wants to be the man rather than to share spotlight with KD or LBJ.
It will be either Raptors or Clippers. If somehow Kawhi leads Raps to the ring, I dint even mind he leaves for LA:)
It will be interesting summer though
Your previous post definitely didn't come across as trolling to me.

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Re: Counterpoints 

Post#505 » by NBAWestFan » Wed May 8, 2019 6:02 pm

Ranma wrote:Personally, I appreciate Tomhomes33's civil contributions in providing Raptors fans' perspective on the Kawhi situation. It helps to allow us to have realistic expectations on the matter. In any case, I'm going to respond to the Raptors fans' list.

Tomhomes33 wrote:As Raptors fan who comes in piece I find this hillariois (copy paste from Raptors board)
but half of it is true:)

The reasons Kawhi stays and does not join Clippers


- More money
True but negligible given AAV differential is at $2.75 million. Plus, the tax rate in Canada is still higher than California's.
- Clips don't have anyone as good as Siakam
True but Clippers also have flexibility to add another 1st-tier free agent like Durant.
- East isn't as loaded top to bottom
True but road to championship may be more difficult if KD goes to East and still have to deal with Bucks and 76ers, especially if Kawhi continues to single-handedly carry Raptors in postseason.
- Better fanbase
I'm not sure about that. Die-hard Clippers fans have been around for years even before the Raptors' inception. Having entire nation unite behind Kawhi is impressive but having true-blue, long-time fans in his hometown area is also appealing.
- Nobody cares about the Clippers in LA or the rest of the league
While that might be true in Los Angeles where Lakers fans severely outnumber Clippers fans, this regular season and postseason has opened up eyes on the Clippers among NBA fans across the nation.
- Raptors have one of the best training staffs in the league and will do whatever you want
I'll have to concede this point given our own possibly questionable staff and what the Raptors have done to cater to Kawhi's needs during his rehabilitation of the quad injury.
- Nick Nurse is a chill coach that won't yell at you or embarrass you and wants your feedback
Nurse has done an impressive job and, while I'm not exactly Doc's biggest fan, Rivers is actually adept at managing stars and getting everyone on the same page to win.
- You already live in SoCal in the offseason why not have the best of both worlds and have a 50/50 split
That might appeal to a free-swinging bachelor, but Kawhi is big on family and both his and his baby mama's family reside in Southern California. Having his family close by at all times for support would serve him well, especially in raising his children.
- You're already on pace of being the best player for a franchise ever and could break most of the franchise records possibly
Kawhi could do even more or have an easier time continuing on such a pace with more support with a team better equipped to provide him with such help in breaking records for the Clippers. And he could conceivably be the first player ever to have his jersey retired by the Clippers franchise.
- The media is chill and won't harass you or bug you
I'm going to concede this one even though coverage of the Clippers has not nearly been as much of a circus as it has been with the Lakers. Plus, having TMZ's headquarters in L.A. doesn't help our cause in that respect either.
- You have burgeoning friendships with Powell, Lowry, Ibaka and Danny Green if he comes back is a long time friend
I'm not familiar enough with Kawhi's relationships with those aforementioned Raptors teammates but it seems to me that Lowry is still mourning over the loss of his good buddy DeRozan. Ibaka is a weird dude with a phallic obsession feeding Kawhi bull-penis pizza when he's not punching opponents in their junk.
- Won't have police officers trying to shoot you because you're black
I might have to concede this one slightly but Kawhi is a celebrity and LAPD wouldn't dare risk laying a finger on him.
- Weed is legal
It's also legal here in Southern California now.
- Away from family and friends bugging you for tickets and you can only concentrate on basketball
That's not a selling point because all indications on Kawhi is that he is big on family with that being likely his top priority in determining his decision in free agency.
- Monas parties
I have no idea who or what this is. Also, if Kawhi is interested in partying, which I doubt he is, I don't think he could do much better than having access to the abundant Hollywood parties or the social scene in Los Angeles.
- Drakes parties
Drake seems a bit of a d-bag and/or overzealous fanboy. Dude sings about Lou Williams's two girlfriends, then proceeds to engage in an affair with one of them breaking up the amicable love triangle.
- Team is willing to go over the cap and spend on luxury tax
Have you met Mr. Ballmer? Clippers would be too for the right situation.
- We have the assets to trade for Anthony Davis
So do the Clippers and I would argue more so than the Raptors unless you're willing to give up Pascal Siakam.
- Lowry, Gasol and Ibaka are coming off the books next year and we can add some real talent beside you and Siakam
For whatever reason, Toronto has had problems attracting premier free agents in the past. Hopefully, that will change but not at the Clippers' expense. In any case, the Raptors can create salary cap space for the summer of 2020 but the Clippers can do so right now for the upcoming summer where there will be the most anticipated class of premier free agents available for quite some time. The Clippers are already considered by most to be the destination franchise for star players.
- No Earthquakes
True. Nothing we can do about mother nature, though there hasn't been any major instances for quite some time. Having said that, Kawhi should be well aware of the risks and used to them having grown up in So. Cal.
- To much exposure to sun can give you a greater risk at skin cancer
True but Kawhi should be able to afford the necessary amount of sunscreen needed to mitigate such risks and the benefit of more comfortable sunny climate outweighs the minor inconvenience of having to apply protection, which is exhibited by most people preferring to vacation in such climates over colder ones.
- Won't be playing in Lebrons shadow in the same city
Maybe but LeBron's shadow ain't what it used to be. King James is actually now a part of arguably the NBA's most dysfunctional organization in the Lakers and things don't look to get better for them at the moment. Plus, he's older and continues to age at 34 years old with 2 more years and an option for a 3rd on his current contract.
- They don't have Jurassic Park
I'm not entirely familiar with the Raptors' Jurassic Park but I'll concede this point given that the Clippers share the Staples Center with the Lakers and are currently dealing with legal issues with regards to their own stadium project in Inglewood.
- Don't have to wear the same jersey all the time
I'm not a fan of the Clippers' jerseys or sloppily constructed rebranded logo, so I'll concede this point for now.
- Don't have to deal with some crazy eccentric owner
Steve Ballmer may be excitable and demonstrably enthusiastic but he's the kind of owner most, if not every, team should want. He's the richest owner in North American professional sports and also engaged as well as willing to let top basketball people do their jobs and invest in the team's success. What exactly is the problem here?
- Better downtown core that has everything you need and is easier accessible
I'll take your word for it having ventured to Downtown Los Angeles myself and not being particularly impressed.
- Winter clothes expand your wardrobe and make your fashion more impressive
While I agree that tends to be true, it gets both cold and sunny in California so Kawhi's wardrobe should be even more expansive having to account for different seasonal weather. Plus, one can expand one's wardrobe through variances of style in similar articles of clothing.
- Toronto more diverse
I'm not sure about that. Los Angeles is one of the most diverse communities in the world given it's reputation for being a melting pot of culture and race.
- No Trump
Unfortunately true, but that should only be temporary with maybe a year or so under Trump influence.
- Next to no annoying Laker fans here
True but they're everywhere. The problem is Los Angeles is indeed ground zero for that particular affliction.
- Clippers best player is a 6th man in his early 30's
I've personally argued that Danilo Gallinari has been the Clippers' best player this season, but the point stands. However, that would no longer be the case if Kawhi joined the Clips and his arrival would increase the likelihood of bringing in more stars (likely better than Siakam) to join him in Los Angeles whether that'd be Kevin Durant, Anthony Davis or even the recently bandied about Klay Thompson.
- Doc Rivers has been rumored to possibly leave and could bail if things don't work
False. Doc just signed an extension after the Clippers were eliminated from the playoffs and stated, for the record, that he plans on being here until Ballmer tells him to get out.
- 1 less road game in front of those unruly Spurs fans in San Antonio
I don't know but I'll go ahead and concede that point.


Everyone things they might know but no one knows.

Cippers will be a Western Contender with Kawhi but will they be better than the current Toronto team?

The Lakers with Kawhi will they be better than the current Toronto team? I tend to think so.

Only the future will tell.
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Re: Counterpoints 

Post#506 » by Neddy » Wed May 8, 2019 8:03 pm

Ranma wrote:Personally, I appreciate Tomhomes33's civil contributions in providing Raptors fans' perspective on the Kawhi situation. It helps to allow us to have realistic expectations on the matter. In any case, I'm going to respond to the Raptors fans' list.

Tomhomes33 wrote:As Raptors fan who comes in piece I find this hillariois (copy paste from Raptors board)
but half of it is true:)

The reasons Kawhi stays and does not join Clippers


- Better fanbase
I'm not sure about that. Die-hard Clippers fans have been around for years even before the Raptors' inception. Having entire nation unite behind Kawhi is impressive but having true-blue, long-time fans in his hometown area is also appealing.

LOL. we may not outnumber the laker fan base but LA is a big city. we have guys from even SD Clips days who still cheer for this team. I myself date back to the LA Sports Arena days. we have the most loyal fan base according to the Wall Street Journal when you plot the loyalty versus team performance.

- Weed is legal
It's also legal here in Southern California now.

so is here in Oregon, just saying.

- No Earthquakes
True. Nothing we can do about mother nature, though there hasn't been any major instances for quite some time. Having said that, Kawhi should be well aware of the risks and used to them having grown up in So. Cal.

I've been to Toronto during winter storms. I would prefer earthquakes. it's short, and far less people die from it. I remember when a few dozens of people froze to death in Montreal when elderly care facility lost power over night while I was visiting Toronto some 20 years back.

- To much exposure to sun can give you a greater risk at skin cancer
True but Kawhi should be able to afford the necessary amount of sunscreen needed to mitigate such risks and the benefit of more comfortable sunny climate outweighs the minor inconvenience of having to apply protection, which is exhibited by most people preferring to vacation in such climates over colder ones.

Kawhi is black. he has melanin. skin cancer isn't on his priority list to avoid.

- Toronto more diverse
I'm not sure about that. Los Angeles is one of the most diverse communities in the world given it's reputation for being a melting pot of culture and race.

haha, this is another big no. a ton of Chinese and Indians in Toronto, but you guys do not have nearly close the level of diversity and certainly not as many choices of ethnic cuisine/restaurants like LA. in fact, no place I have ever been to over 4 countries and their biggest cities has as much as LA. maybe New York.

- No Trump
Unfortunately true, but that should only be temporary with maybe a year or so under Trump influence.


give it aboout 18 months.
ehhhhh f it.
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Educated Fortune Telling 

Post#507 » by Ranma » Wed May 8, 2019 9:08 pm

NBAWestFan wrote:Everyone things they might know but no one knows.

Cippers will be a Western Contender with Kawhi but will they be better than the current Toronto team?

The Lakers with Kawhi will they be better than the current Toronto team? I tend to think so.

Only the future will tell.


You can play the "nobody knows what's really going to happen with absolute certainty" card, but there is such a thing as educated guessing. Nobody knows for certain that the Earth will not be bombarded by an asteroid tomorrow, but it's a pretty safe assumption that it won't happen.

Based on the contents of this very thread, which includes reporting from multiple credible sports journalists, Kawhi will choose between signing with the Clippers or remaining with the Raptors. Do you honestly think he'd choose the Lakers over the Clippers or even the Raptors when the LAL are considered the most dysfunctional organization in the league right now? Despite all the public wooing by LeBron and his camp, let's also not forget that Kawhi remembers LeBron expressing to people in the past that Kawhi was not on the same level as him or Durant. Why would Kawhi play Robin to LeBron's Batman when he's arguably better than the so-called King right now? Monty Williams chose to sign on with the Suns over the Lakers, for crying out loud.

Yeah, the Lakers would be better than the Raptors if Kawhi joined them with LeBron, but monkeys could also fly out of Wayne Campbell's butt. Also, despite not currently having a player better than Pascal Siakam, the Clippers would most certainly be a better team than the Raptors even if you take Kawhi out of the equation entirely for both clubs. The difference is that the Clips have the flexbility to be even better as the most-admired destination franchise with the most anticipated free agency period ever.

Anything can happen, but let's keep the discussion in the realm of reasonable expectations, shall we? After all, I'm sure the Lakers board is open to pie-in-the-sky dream scenarios. I could win the Powerball lottery jackpot tonight, but that doesn't mean I should be putting a down payment on a McLaren Speedtail sports car at this very moment.


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Re: Counterpoints 

Post#508 » by mttwlsn16 » Wed May 8, 2019 9:28 pm

NBAWestFan wrote:
Ranma wrote:Personally, I appreciate Tomhomes33's civil contributions in providing Raptors fans' perspective on the Kawhi situation. It helps to allow us to have realistic expectations on the matter. In any case, I'm going to respond to the Raptors fans' list.

Tomhomes33 wrote:As Raptors fan who comes in piece I find this hillariois (copy paste from Raptors board)
but half of it is true:)

The reasons Kawhi stays and does not join Clippers


- More money
True but negligible given AAV differential is at $2.75 million. Plus, the tax rate in Canada is still higher than California's.
- Clips don't have anyone as good as Siakam
True but Clippers also have flexibility to add another 1st-tier free agent like Durant.
- East isn't as loaded top to bottom
True but road to championship may be more difficult if KD goes to East and still have to deal with Bucks and 76ers, especially if Kawhi continues to single-handedly carry Raptors in postseason.
- Better fanbase
I'm not sure about that. Die-hard Clippers fans have been around for years even before the Raptors' inception. Having entire nation unite behind Kawhi is impressive but having true-blue, long-time fans in his hometown area is also appealing.
- Nobody cares about the Clippers in LA or the rest of the league
While that might be true in Los Angeles where Lakers fans severely outnumber Clippers fans, this regular season and postseason has opened up eyes on the Clippers among NBA fans across the nation.
- Raptors have one of the best training staffs in the league and will do whatever you want
I'll have to concede this point given our own possibly questionable staff and what the Raptors have done to cater to Kawhi's needs during his rehabilitation of the quad injury.
- Nick Nurse is a chill coach that won't yell at you or embarrass you and wants your feedback
Nurse has done an impressive job and, while I'm not exactly Doc's biggest fan, Rivers is actually adept at managing stars and getting everyone on the same page to win.
- You already live in SoCal in the offseason why not have the best of both worlds and have a 50/50 split
That might appeal to a free-swinging bachelor, but Kawhi is big on family and both his and his baby mama's family reside in Southern California. Having his family close by at all times for support would serve him well, especially in raising his children.
- You're already on pace of being the best player for a franchise ever and could break most of the franchise records possibly
Kawhi could do even more or have an easier time continuing on such a pace with more support with a team better equipped to provide him with such help in breaking records for the Clippers. And he could conceivably be the first player ever to have his jersey retired by the Clippers franchise.
- The media is chill and won't harass you or bug you
I'm going to concede this one even though coverage of the Clippers has not nearly been as much of a circus as it has been with the Lakers. Plus, having TMZ's headquarters in L.A. doesn't help our cause in that respect either.
- You have burgeoning friendships with Powell, Lowry, Ibaka and Danny Green if he comes back is a long time friend
I'm not familiar enough with Kawhi's relationships with those aforementioned Raptors teammates but it seems to me that Lowry is still mourning over the loss of his good buddy DeRozan. Ibaka is a weird dude with a phallic obsession feeding Kawhi bull-penis pizza when he's not punching opponents in their junk.
- Won't have police officers trying to shoot you because you're black
I might have to concede this one slightly but Kawhi is a celebrity and LAPD wouldn't dare risk laying a finger on him.
- Weed is legal
It's also legal here in Southern California now.
- Away from family and friends bugging you for tickets and you can only concentrate on basketball
That's not a selling point because all indications on Kawhi is that he is big on family with that being likely his top priority in determining his decision in free agency.
- Monas parties
I have no idea who or what this is. Also, if Kawhi is interested in partying, which I doubt he is, I don't think he could do much better than having access to the abundant Hollywood parties or the social scene in Los Angeles.
- Drakes parties
Drake seems a bit of a d-bag and/or overzealous fanboy. Dude sings about Lou Williams's two girlfriends, then proceeds to engage in an affair with one of them breaking up the amicable love triangle.
- Team is willing to go over the cap and spend on luxury tax
Have you met Mr. Ballmer? Clippers would be too for the right situation.
- We have the assets to trade for Anthony Davis
So do the Clippers and I would argue more so than the Raptors unless you're willing to give up Pascal Siakam.
- Lowry, Gasol and Ibaka are coming off the books next year and we can add some real talent beside you and Siakam
For whatever reason, Toronto has had problems attracting premier free agents in the past. Hopefully, that will change but not at the Clippers' expense. In any case, the Raptors can create salary cap space for the summer of 2020 but the Clippers can do so right now for the upcoming summer where there will be the most anticipated class of premier free agents available for quite some time. The Clippers are already considered by most to be the destination franchise for star players.
- No Earthquakes
True. Nothing we can do about mother nature, though there hasn't been any major instances for quite some time. Having said that, Kawhi should be well aware of the risks and used to them having grown up in So. Cal.
- To much exposure to sun can give you a greater risk at skin cancer
True but Kawhi should be able to afford the necessary amount of sunscreen needed to mitigate such risks and the benefit of more comfortable sunny climate outweighs the minor inconvenience of having to apply protection, which is exhibited by most people preferring to vacation in such climates over colder ones.
- Won't be playing in Lebrons shadow in the same city
Maybe but LeBron's shadow ain't what it used to be. King James is actually now a part of arguably the NBA's most dysfunctional organization in the Lakers and things don't look to get better for them at the moment. Plus, he's older and continues to age at 34 years old with 2 more years and an option for a 3rd on his current contract.
- They don't have Jurassic Park
I'm not entirely familiar with the Raptors' Jurassic Park but I'll concede this point given that the Clippers share the Staples Center with the Lakers and are currently dealing with legal issues with regards to their own stadium project in Inglewood.
- Don't have to wear the same jersey all the time
I'm not a fan of the Clippers' jerseys or sloppily constructed rebranded logo, so I'll concede this point for now.
- Don't have to deal with some crazy eccentric owner
Steve Ballmer may be excitable and demonstrably enthusiastic but he's the kind of owner most, if not every, team should want. He's the richest owner in North American professional sports and also engaged as well as willing to let top basketball people do their jobs and invest in the team's success. What exactly is the problem here?
- Better downtown core that has everything you need and is easier accessible
I'll take your word for it having ventured to Downtown Los Angeles myself and not being particularly impressed.
- Winter clothes expand your wardrobe and make your fashion more impressive
While I agree that tends to be true, it gets both cold and sunny in California so Kawhi's wardrobe should be even more expansive having to account for different seasonal weather. Plus, one can expand one's wardrobe through variances of style in similar articles of clothing.
- Toronto more diverse
I'm not sure about that. Los Angeles is one of the most diverse communities in the world given it's reputation for being a melting pot of culture and race.
- No Trump
Unfortunately true, but that should only be temporary with maybe a year or so under Trump influence.
- Next to no annoying Laker fans here
True but they're everywhere. The problem is Los Angeles is indeed ground zero for that particular affliction.
- Clippers best player is a 6th man in his early 30's
I've personally argued that Danilo Gallinari has been the Clippers' best player this season, but the point stands. However, that would no longer be the case if Kawhi joined the Clips and his arrival would increase the likelihood of bringing in more stars (likely better than Siakam) to join him in Los Angeles whether that'd be Kevin Durant, Anthony Davis or even the recently bandied about Klay Thompson.
- Doc Rivers has been rumored to possibly leave and could bail if things don't work
False. Doc just signed an extension after the Clippers were eliminated from the playoffs and stated, for the record, that he plans on being here until Ballmer tells him to get out.
- 1 less road game in front of those unruly Spurs fans in San Antonio
I don't know but I'll go ahead and concede that point.


Everyone things they might know but no one knows.

Cippers will be a Western Contender with Kawhi but will they be better than the current Toronto team?

The Lakers with Kawhi will they be better than the current Toronto team? I tend to think so.

Only the future will tell.
Lol the flakers are a mess. Zero chance Kawhi goes there.

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Re: Counterpoints 

Post#509 » by MartinToVaught » Thu May 9, 2019 12:02 am

NBAWestFan wrote:The Lakers with Kawhi will they be better than the current Toronto team? I tend to think so.

The Lakers right now are a trainwreck. Forget Kawhi, they need to start worrying about whether LeBron is going to demand a trade.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#510 » by Quake Griffin » Thu May 9, 2019 12:13 am

The Lakers are a front office hire away from not being dysfunctional.

Broussard floated the idea of the Lakers going after Ujiri and then Kawhi coming along to follow Ujiri.
Is it really that far fetched for Jeanie Buss to give Ujiri a blank check and the keys to one of sports' most revered franchises, for him to say yes and for Kawhi to think it wise to sign there?

This idea that he's just coming here is ridiculous to me. He's one of the best players in the league. A franchise will rearrange a ton of furniture to bring him on. No way I think this is as simple as it being the Clippers and Raptors just because of twitter rumors.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#511 » by MartinToVaught » Thu May 9, 2019 12:19 am

Quake Griffin wrote:The Lakers are a front office hire away from not being dysfunctional.

No they aren't. Remember when Magic was going to save the Lakers and convince every star in the league to play for them? How did that turn out?

The Lakers are a new owner away from not being dysfunctional - and even then, it depends on whether the new owner is actually competent.

Is it really that far fetched for Jeanie Buss to give Ujiri a blank check and the keys to one of sports' most revered franchises, for him to say yes and for Kawhi to think it wise to sign there?

Jeanie Buss couldn't even hire Ty Lue. How's she going to convince Ujiri to leave a possible Finals team for their mess?
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#512 » by Quake Griffin » Thu May 9, 2019 12:33 am

MartinToVaught wrote:
Quake Griffin wrote:The Lakers are a front office hire away from not being dysfunctional.

No they aren't. Remember when Magic was going to save the Lakers and convince every star in the league to play for them? How did that turn out?

The Lakers are a new owner away from not being dysfunctional - and even then, it depends on whether the new owner is actually competent.

Is it really that far fetched for Jeanie Buss to give Ujiri a blank check and the keys to one of sports' most revered franchises, for him to say yes and for Kawhi to think it wise to sign there?

Jeanie Buss couldn't even hire Ty Lue. How's she going to convince Ujiri to leave a possible Finals team for their mess?

Magic Johnson was never a front office mind and never in the business of being anything other than a figure head that pitched free agents. He had no interest in scouting, understanding the cap, or really building a roster.

Giving the keys to an idiot POBO/ GM does not mean you need a new owner or that your franchise is in permanent dysfunction (See Steve Ballmer era Clippers), particularly if you have an owner who is searching for ways to do things better and not a do-it-all, know--it-all like Jerry Jones.
__________________________
GM/ POBO for Lakers is a dream job. Give Ujiri the:
Keys.
A Blank Check.
Get out of his way.

Not a hard sell at all. In fact, I'm not even really sure why that kind of question is on the table.
If it's not Ujiri today (again, that was just an idea...not a legit rumor), someone will come along and value that role along those lines.

They're the Lakers, not the Knicks.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#513 » by MartinToVaught » Thu May 9, 2019 12:43 am

Quake Griffin wrote:Magic Johnson was never a front office mind and never in the business of being anything other than a figure head that pitched free agents. He had no interest in scouting, understanding the cap, or really building a roster.

He was still a shiny new front-office hire who was supposed to save the Lakers. He did not.

Giving the keys to an idiot POBO/ GM does not mean you need a new owner or that your franchise is in permanent dysfunction (See Steve Ballmer era Clippers), particularly if you have an owner who is searching for ways to do things better and not a do-it-all, know--it-all like Jerry Jones.

The Lakers were already dysfunctional before they gave Magic the keys, and somehow, they're even more dysfunctional since he left. They've been the most entertaining reality show in the NBA ever since the Dwight Howard trade, all the way back in 2012. And there are no signs of that changing anytime soon.

GM/ POBO for Lakers is a dream job.

Jeanie is clueless. Kurt and Linda Rambis are making the basketball decisions. Kobe's agent is their GM. They can't even hire a coach without trying to dictate his own staff to him before he signs the contract. The roster is a 34-year-old LeBron and a bunch of draft busts who no other team in the league wants. LaVar Ball is still involved with the team. I highly doubt that the Lakers are anyone's dream job at the moment.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#514 » by Quake Griffin » Thu May 9, 2019 1:33 am

She is.
So was Ballmer. People learn.

Of course it is a dream job.
You give someone a blank check and empower them to make decisions and clean house, plenty of people will lineup to bring the Lakers back to glory.

Bron, cap space, lottery pick.
Young assets with some value.
If I have the keys? The power? I’m running the show? Me?

“My way? With my people” Gene Hackman voice*

It’s a no brainer.
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Smells Like Lakers Myopia 

Post#515 » by Ranma » Thu May 9, 2019 2:38 am

Quake Griffin wrote:The Lakers are a front office hire away from not being dysfunctional.

MartinToVaught wrote:The Lakers are a new owner away from not being dysfunctional - and even then, it depends on whether the new owner is actually competent.

Quake Griffin wrote:They're the Lakers, not the Knicks.

MartinToVaught wrote:Jeanie is clueless. Kurt and Linda Rambis are making the basketball decisions. Kobe's agent is their GM. They can't even hire a coach without trying to dictate his own staff to him before he signs the contract. The roster is a 34-year-old LeBron and a bunch of draft busts who no other team in the league wants. LaVar Ball is still involved with the team. I highly doubt that the Lakers are anyone's dream job at the moment.

Quake Griffin wrote:Of course it is a dream job.
You give someone a blank check and empower them to make decisions and clean house, plenty of people will lineup to bring the Lakers back to glory.


Come on, Quake. I was actually with you in thinking before that the Lakers were a front-office leader away from turning things around. Yes, the appeal of rehabilitating a glory franchise like the Lakers is appealing in theory but the reality of the situation will not allow for that any time soon. The Lakers are operating more like the Knicks right now than any other team in the NBA. Do you seriously think Jeanie will give someone a blank check and total control when she's listening to so many people right now including her hair-drying buddy Linda Rambis, Kobe's former agent Rob Pelinka, and others all vying for influence and actually having her ear?

MartinToVaught is right. Things could change but it's not going to by this off-season at the very least. Yes, Ballmer eventually learned to hire Jerry West and relieve Doc of his PoBO powers, but how long did it take for him to do something so obvious? Even his old Microsoft buddy and fellow NBA team owner, the late Paul Allen, cautioned him against giving Doc both GM and coaching powers and yet Ballmer didn't listen. Jeanie Buss is going to give Rob Pelinka the opportunity to fail in deference to Kobe. She's also likely to move Kurt Rambis into either an assistant GM or assistant coaching role just out of loyalty to her friend Linda.

Things could and should have been solved by hiring David Griffin as the front-office leader. They even had the opportunity to get Monty Williams as head coach and yet both Griffin and Williams chose to work for other troubled locations rather than wait for the storied franchise of the Lakers. Now the Lakers can't even secure Tyronn Lue as their head coach despite him selling Jeanie hard on his love for the Lakers. Jason Kidd apparently did one hell of a Doc schmoozing job in securing a position with the Lakers. The bottom line is that there are too many chefs in the kitchen pulling at Jeanie and she's apparently listening to every one of them.

Maybe Jeanie will come to her senses one day but it's highly unlikely that it will be any time soon. Instead she's apparently given Pelinka the ultimatum of pursuing Kawhi in the off-season and the opportunity to fail. Now there are people urging her to trade LeBron, which may not actually be a bad idea, to be honest. However, as of right now she is surrounded by a den of vipers angling for increased influence and getting their share. There's no way that Jeanie is going to give anyone complete control in the front office right now, especially when she wouldn't even give Lakers' favored son Magic authorization to fire both Walton and Pelinka.

Even if by some small miracle that she somehow hired Masai Ujiri or whomever else with the task to fix everything, those changes are not going to take effect within a season, so nevermind an off-season. What premier free agent in his right mind is going to sign with the Lakers this summer when LeBron James can't even get the coach that he wants? Heck, there has been no effort to this point to even pursue GM or PoBO candidates and no coaches outside of the bottom-feeding candidates have chosen to hitch their wagons to the Lakers' mess at this very moment.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#516 » by Quake Griffin » Thu May 9, 2019 5:44 am

I don't see any real legitimate disputes about the idea that a good POBO/GM mind with full control solves many if not all of their issues. I see a perfunctory or cursory allegation that they need a new owner and then some ideas for why this would not happen this offseason. The first one is unfounded tbh. The second one leads me to believe, this is the perfect offseason for her to change what she is doing.

To think Jeanie couldn't get in a room with a guy like Ujiri, offer him a blank check, and give him full control is naive. It's also naive to view LeBron, A lottery pick, cap space, and young tradeable assets as a completely bad situation just because right now, their house is a mess. There's plenty of positives for a new POBO to work with.

Nonetheless, it's getting away from my main point - a team will move heaven and earth to sign Kawhi this offseason (which is why I brought up that example in the first place....not go down a rabbit hole about how plausible it is for Jeanie to do it). So the idea that he's just coming here because twitter said so for the last year is short sighted. In fact, much of the context we use to support the idea that he's coming here is short sighted. Ex. He bought a home in the area....when most of the LA born and bred ball players own homes here and play home games elsewhere.

My hopes aren't up. I'll be pleasantly surprised if he comes but I'm not banking on it.
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Theoretical vs. Actual Events 

Post#517 » by Ranma » Thu May 9, 2019 6:01 am

Nobody is arguing that a good front-office leader can't fix what ails the Lakers right now if given full control, but based on stuff that's been happening up to and including today, there are absolutely no signs of Jeanie even thinking about replacing Pelinka. If there are, go ahead and point me to such signs. Have the Lakers even interviewed GM or PoBO candidates?

Do you actually think she's going to pull Ujiri out of the blue when everything the Lakers have done has been leaked including their free-agent and head-coaching targets? All signs point to the contrary.

You're arguing what could and should be done, which no one disagrees with, but everything that the Lakers actually have done has been contrary to such. They've leaked that they wanted Kawhi, Coach K, Anthony Davis, Doc, and Rick Carlisle and yet the Ujiri idea was floated by Chris Broussard of all people. Bob Myers was floated by other talking heads too. They haven't called Jerry West and I haven't even heard of them making contact with David Griffin. And we're supposed to believe that they want Ujiri when Magic left specifically because he apparently couldn't fire Pelinka?

Really, Quake. Even most Lakers fans don't see this happening.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#518 » by Fireburner » Thu May 9, 2019 6:53 am

They started an extensive coaching search without a POBO secured, which means they never intended to do so in the first place. I suppose you can't rule out them hiring one after getting a coach. That's ass backwards but they are a clown show, so... It's right to say a competent outside voice like say, Jerry West, would have fixed their problems. Instead, Jeannie insulated herself with her incompetent BFFs and it doesn't look like she intends to go outside her inner circle anytime soon. It's great.
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Plaschke Sees Writing on the Wall 

Post#519 » by Ranma » Thu May 9, 2019 7:54 am

Read on Twitter



Bill Plaschke, Los Angeles Times (5/8/19)
Let that sink in. Marinate in the idea that Lakerland is becoming a wasteland. Soak in the notion that Showtime is turning toxic. Say hello to the Los Angeles Knicks.

When Jerry Buss was alive, when the Lakers wanted someone, anyone, for any job, they got him. Under Jim Buss, their magnetic pull no longer worked for free agents. Now, under Jeanie Buss, they can’t even hire an out-of-work coach?

In Rob Pelinka’s first test as the full-time basketball boss, he flunked, and it continues to be a source of undying amazement that he has that job. In Buss and shadow owner Linda Rambis’ biggest test since Buss captured the throne a couple of years ago, they flunked, and doesn’t Buss realize she is greatly eroding a city’s trust? In Kurt Rambis’ biggest decision since retiring as a player…wait a minute, what is Kurt Rambis even doing in the room?

How do you think this chaos looks to any of the potential free agents that the Lakers desperately need to attract this summer? Stars are no longer signing with just basketball teams; they are seeking solid business partnerships, and who wants to partner with a franchise that can’t even do the easy things right?

One, the Lakers could be in for at least two more years of whispering and whining and coach-questioning by James and his camp, and just ask Walton how that will go.

Or, two, James will have to be traded, an idea that is suddenly not as crazy as it sounds. James didn’t completely invest in the team this season when he was seemingly happy, so the idea of him spending the rest of his time here in a bad mood is untenable.

Jeanie Buss, Rob Pelinka and Lakers Lose Tyronn Lue and Credibility
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Twitter Isn't Real Life 

Post#520 » by Quake Griffin » Thu May 9, 2019 11:31 am

Ranma wrote:Nobody is arguing that a good front-office leader can't fix what ails the Lakers right now if given full control

No. That is literally what MTV was arguing and there's just no basis for that.

Ranma wrote:but based on stuff that's been happening up to and including today, there are absolutely no signs of Jeanie even thinking about replacing Pelinka. If there are, go ahead and point me to such signs. Have the Lakers even interviewed GM or PoBO candidates?

And there were no signs the Clippers were going to trade Griffin (until I believe minnesota leaked the Towns thing). No signs they were going to trade Tobias. How much did we telegraph the Jerry West move? Seems like I woke up one day and it just happened.

Maybe they've learned from Doug Gottlieb to be a "ninja dad" and do their business quietly.

Ranma wrote:Do you actually think she's going to pull Ujiri out of the blue when everything the Lakers have done has been leaked including their free-agent and head-coaching targets? All signs point to the contrary.


No.
Ranma wrote:
You're arguing what could and should be done

Just could...I'm only arguing about what COULD happen.
Because a team will move heaven and earth to sign Kawhi. A team could maneuver and angle when the season is over to get into position to sign him. Oh and this is an example, look at the idea that Broussard floated out there. It's not a bad idea. It's in the universe.

Do I think the Lakers will do it? No.
Could they? Sure.
_____________________________________

Will a team move heaven and earth to sign Kawhi? I think so. It has to be respected as an option. If you were makign Vegas odds, you would certainly factor it in.
Are we front runners? According to twitter, yes.
Does that mean a team couldn't swoop in at the last minute and sign him? Absolutely not.
Do I respect the idea that there are 29 other teams in this league, and out of those 29, a bunch of competitive ones that aren't just going to concede Kawhi to the Clippers and Raptors? Yes.

^^^^^
If you address the bolded part of my post, I know you are reading my post. If you post some long diatribe about Jeanie and the Lakers not being likely to sign Ujiri, I'll know you're just talking/ arguing with air.
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