The Board Man Cometh!! Kawhi Leonard Signs 3 Year (2+1), $103 Million Deal

[QRich3]

Which is why I was against the "build a little engine that could team to attract a star and when any success comes, claim you dont care about anything else that happens next/ it was all worth it because that little success was enough" from the jump. If it's not Kawhi or KD coming, I dont want it. Oh great, Klay and/ or Kyrie on max deals. Maybe a WCF trip once in the next 5 years. ZZZZzzz

Could it work? Sure.
But traditionally, stars are joining stars. Very rare they just say, "oh wow...45 wins? What a culture. I want that."
I've even made the case that there is more history of players joining "lesser" teams if they can look and see star players on the horizon....Nash-Suns...Paul-Griffin...Bron-Cryrie.

Yah, I'm with you on that, but there's a case to be made about how winning is good not only to make you attractive to FA, but it also improves everyone's value. Shai and Sham have more value because of it, Lou and Harrell as well, Gallo is now a guy you can trade without having to attach a pick to him, etc. Now maybe you don't want to trade any of those guys, but if a great opportunity arises (say AD wants to come and there's no one offering a ton), you have the liquidity to make the most of it. So you maybe lose a lot of value by not having a good pick, but you build back value in other places.

But yeah, if it was up to me, we'd be praying for luck in tonight's lottery.

[Vae Victus]

Which is why I was against the "build a little engine that could team to attract a star and when any success comes, claim you dont care about anything else that happens next/ it was all worth it because that little success was enough" from the jump. If it's not Kawhi or KD coming, I dont want it. Oh great, Klay and/ or Kyrie on max deals. Maybe a WCF trip once in the next 5 years. ZZZZzzz

Could it work? Sure.
But traditionally, stars are joining stars. Very rare they just say, "oh wow...45 wins? What a culture. I want that."
I've even made the case that there is more history of players joining "lesser" teams if they can look and see star players on the horizon....Nash-Suns...Paul-Griffin...Bron-Cryrie.

Yah, I'm with you on that, but there's a case to be made about how winning is good not only to make you attractive to FA, but it also improves everyone's value. Shai and Sham have more value because of it, Lou and Harrell as well, Gallo is now a guy you can trade without having to attach a pick to him, etc. Now maybe you don't want to trade any of those guys, but if a great opportunity arises (say AD wants to come and there's no one offering a ton), you have the liquidity to make the most of it. So you maybe lose a lot of value by not having a good pick, but you build back value in other places.

But yeah, if it was up to me, we'd be praying for luck in tonight's lottery.

The team playing well and individual players values improving due to said play is why im bullish on trading for AD. I too was on team tank, but it is what it is, and at least the team did about as well as could be expected where everyone looked pretty damn good in the process before falling to GSW (who i hope wins it all).

SEGA and Shamet's trade value wont be any higher than they are, short of a massive 2nd year jump. Theyre avg to above avg starters with potential for more growth while still having 3!!! dirt cheap years left on their rookie deals. Theyre the perfect trade pieces to use to go after AD for a rebuilding NOP (although i'd prefer to send only of them 1 and make up the rest of hte value with FRPs).

If the Kawhi + KD then trade for AD dream scenario doesnt happen, the fallback scenario of Kawhi + Gallo + AD or KD + Gallo + AD, are both feasible. Gallo can be a nice 3rd wheel PF floor spacer either super duo AND there's the salary cap to have all 3 and keep most of the bench.

Ideally the trade would be something like Gallo + SEGA + PHI 2020 prot FRP + LAC 2021 FRP for AD

But realistically it'll prolly be something like SEGA + Lou Will + PHI 2020 prot FRP + MIA 2021 MIA FRP for AD + Hill

[MartinToVaught]

I'm against trading for AD at all. He's the wrong player to build around in today's league, and he's constantly getting injured. I also don't trust that he wouldn't just walk to the Lakers after we trade our entire future away for him. No thanks.

[Quake Griffin]

He's just not that guy. I'm not sure he ever was.

I fully expect him to shrink on a super team and take a "reduced role" in order to win. I do not expect him to do like cream and rise to the top in that situation. I fully expect playoff games where we don't hear from him at all in that situation.

I already said I wouldn't trade Shai for him. It's mostly because of who Anthony Davis is or isn't.

I'm over it. I've pulled for a team with a bunch of hoopla and expectations.
Give me some substance and some grit.

[Quake Griffin]

Well....

Zion and Anthony Davis?

[Vae Victus]

Kawhi literally ran out of steam tonight. Other than Lowry having the playoff game of his life, the rest of the Raptors were a no show tonight.

He cant possibly be happy being FORCED to carry this hard, night in and night out.... he's gotta be thinking, "i need another superstar to share this load".

Just need the Logo to work his magic on KD again and make this crazy dream happen....

[playaloc916]

Kawhi literally ran out of steam tonight. Other than Lowry having the playoff game of his life, the rest of the Raptors were a no show tonight.

He cant possibly be happy being FORCED to carry this hard, night in and night out.... he's gotta be thinking, "i need another superstar to share this load".

Just need the Logo to work his magic on KD again and make this crazy dream happen....

Yup, i saw that yesterday, he was slouched over, breathing pretty hard... all while Giannis was chilling on the bench... Commentators were mentioning it too. Not only did he not get enough time to rest, he's basically always the focal point when his teammates aren't contributing as much as they should be.

I'm pretty sure he would appreciate a guy like Lou Will or Trezz right about now...

[Galloisdaman]

Kawhi literally ran out of steam tonight. Other than Lowry having the playoff game of his life, the rest of the Raptors were a no show tonight.

He cant possibly be happy being FORCED to carry this hard, night in and night out.... he's gotta be thinking, "i need another superstar to share this load".

Just need the Logo to work his magic on KD again and make this crazy dream happen....

Yup, i saw that yesterday, he was slouched over, breathing pretty hard... all while Giannis was chilling on the bench... Commentators were mentioning it too. Not only did he not get enough time to rest, he's basically always the focal point when his teammates aren't contributing as much as they should be.

I'm pretty sure he would appreciate a guy like Lou Will or Trezz right about now...

Sikiam is usually a pretty good player. If Toronto gives up 29points-11rebounds to Brook Lopez they are not going to win often. Brook is not usually a big rebounder. The Bucks really controlled the boards.

[Vae Victus]

Raptors had dead legs. Hard to shoot 3s and hustle 100% on the boards when you're dying from playing 42+ mins and playing at a high pace.

BroLo played like a beast that game, he was 100% hustling hard and went after the boards like a mad man. It's hard and tiring af to box out a hugeass dude determined to get rebounds.

[simon24]

He's just not that guy. I'm not sure he ever was.

I fully expect him to shrink on a super team and take a "reduced role" in order to win. I do not expect him to do like cream and rise to the top in that situation. I fully expect playoff games where we don't hear from him at all in that situation.

I already said I wouldn't trade Shai for him. It's mostly because of who Anthony Davis is or isn't.

I'm over it. I've pulled for a team with a bunch of hoopla and expectations.
Give me some substance and some grit.

I agree.

I expect SGA to make a leap like Fox did in his 2nd year this past season. Got to keep him and Shamet. The GS way.

[simon24]

[quote="MartinToVaught"]I'm against trading for AD at all. He's the wrong player to build around in today's league, and he's constantly getting injured. I also don't trust that he wouldn't just walk to the Lakers after we trade our entire future away for him. No thanks.[/quote]

Right! As we see in this season's final 4 starting 4s (Aminu, Mirotic, Draymond, Siakam) you don't need a guy like him.

LAC do need to upgrade at the 4 after seeing how Gallo played in the playoffs. It's amazing he stayed healthy and don't want to risk him getting hurt.

[QRich3]

Yeah I don't think I'd give Shai and the full picks package for Davis either, that was just an example of what having liquidity is useful for. Forget about AD, maybe it's Towns that's on the block next year, or maybe it's Ben Simmons. Maybe you can have Lebron at a good price or maybe it's Embiid or maybe even Giannis. In this league you never know when someone is gonna be available and having your players with perceived value is always useful. Winning helps that value improve significantly, although it does decrease it somewhere else.

I suspect they have this in mind as much as free agency when they trace the direction of the team.

[UKClipperfan]

I'm against trading for AD at all. He's the wrong player to build around in today's league, and he's constantly getting injured. I also don't trust that he wouldn't just walk to the Lakers after we trade our entire future away for him. No thanks.

Right! As we see in this season's final 4 starting 4s (Aminu, Mirotic, Draymond, Siakam) you don't need a guy like him.

LAC do need to upgrade at the 4 after seeing how Gallo played in the playoffs. It's amazing he stayed healthy and don't want to risk him getting hurt.

I'm glad the lottery ended that pipe dream, not just for us but for a number of teams. The amount of trade packages that would entice the Pels now is very small since they get Zion. If they're forced to trade AD then i guess the Knicks #3 pick to reunite Zion & Barrett with other stuff. But Zion might be good enough to get AD to stay.

I just view Gallo as more of a trade piece than anything. For a few good role players that fit or ideally straight cap space for free agency. Might sound harsh. He's a really good player but only at about half his current salary. Also not as good in the playoffs.

[Galloisdaman]

You guys may regret judging Gallo so largely on 3 really bad playoff games (16pts-9pts-15pts rumor is he was playing through injury) while ignoring the 3 solid playoff games (29pts-26-pts-24pts) and full 2018-19 season (20ppg-6rpg-21PER).

[NBAWestFan]

Kawhi literally ran out of steam tonight. Other than Lowry having the playoff game of his life, the rest of the Raptors were a no show tonight.

He cant possibly be happy being FORCED to carry this hard, night in and night out.... he's gotta be thinking, "i need another superstar to share this load".

Just need the Logo to work his magic on KD again and make this crazy dream happen....

Right but if there isn't another signing before or at the sametime,
How will he commit? It would have to be like Lebron/Wade/Bosh agreed by themselves.

[Vae Victus]

I'm sure if KD and Kawhi agree among themselves that they'd trust the Logo to put an elite team around em. The 2 of em along + the current remaining crew is easily a 60 win team with load management for both players.

If the Logo says, "trust me, i'll make it happen." Who WOULDNT trust him at this point. If Logo thinks he can get AD or doesnt need AD to win it all, who's got the cachet and balls to say he's wrong?

[madmaxmedia]

I'm sure if KD and Kawhi agree among themselves that they'd trust the Logo to put an elite team around em. The 2 of em along + the current remaining crew is easily a 60 win team with load management for both players.

If the Logo says, "trust me, i'll make it happen." Who WOULDNT trust him at this point. If Logo thinks he can get AD or doesnt need AD to win it all, who's got the cachet and balls to say he's wrong?

If both of those guys signed on this offseason and we didn’t have to give up much to move Gallo to free up space, We’d absolutely be the favorites in the West next season. Without AD.

[madmaxmedia]

Which is why I was against the "build a little engine that could team to attract a star and when any success comes, claim you dont care about anything else that happens next/ it was all worth it because that little success was enough" from the jump. If it's not Kawhi or KD coming, I dont want it. Oh great, Klay and/ or Kyrie on max deals. Maybe a WCF trip once in the next 5 years. ZZZZzzz

Could it work? Sure.
But traditionally, stars are joining stars. Very rare they just say, "oh wow...45 wins? What a culture. I want that."
I've even made the case that there is more history of players joining "lesser" teams if they can look and see star players on the horizon....Nash-Suns...Paul-Griffin...Bron-Cryrie.

Yah, I'm with you on that, but there's a case to be made about how winning is good not only to make you attractive to FA, but it also improves everyone's value. Shai and Sham have more value because of it, Lou and Harrell as well, Gallo is now a guy you can trade without having to attach a pick to him, etc. Now maybe you don't want to trade any of those guys, but if a great opportunity arises (say AD wants to come and there's no one offering a ton), you have the liquidity to make the most of it. So you maybe lose a lot of value by not having a good pick, but you build back value in other places.

But yeah, if it was up to me, we'd be praying for luck in tonight's lottery.

There are 2 sides to this for sure, but also we can’t have it both ways- develop young talent and a winning culture, but also compete for a top lottery pick.

Either you want to make the lottery, or you are happy at SGA and Landry’s progress this year, LouWill and Trez’s 6th man of year type seasons, PBev’s fire this year, etc. Because as it ended up we were simply significantly better than we needed to be to miss the playoffs.

I myself vote for the latter. We may strike out in free agency, but I will take it all as we are right now.

I would have seen the long term benefit in trading say Gallo at the deadline, but I don’t think we should resort to shenanigans like resting healthy players for the last 20 games, etc.

[Vae Victus]

I'm sure if KD and Kawhi agree among themselves that they'd trust the Logo to put an elite team around em. The 2 of em along + the current remaining crew is easily a 60 win team with load management for both players.

If the Logo says, "trust me, i'll make it happen." Who WOULDNT trust him at this point. If Logo thinks he can get AD or doesnt need AD to win it all, who's got the cachet and balls to say he's wrong?

If both of those guys signed on this offseason and we didn’t have to give up much to move Gallo to free up space, We’d absolutely be the favorites in the West next season. Without AD.

I think there are several teams that'd love to take Gallo's deal off our hands for at most a SRP.

BRK if FAs snub em
ATL if they think Collins is a C and needs an elite floor spacer at PF
Utah if they decide to move on from Favors, rightly figuring they need floor spacer more than him
SAC at the 3/4
DAL needs a PF so why not space the ever living hell out of the floor

Hell even GSW can take him back in a S&T with KD.

The key thing is the two of em agreeing that they need each other and think the rest of the Clippers are a great fit to em, or have the assets to get another major piece as needed.

As you said adding these 2 is a guaranteed Western Power, with GSW weakened and unable to get a direct replacement for KD (at best would be Gallo).

[Vae Victus]

Kawhi is most definitely gone from TOR

The more i watch the series the more i think its' really the coaching staff that's screwing the team over. TOR has talent but Nurse is an incompetent buffoon who's basically using Kawhi like he's Harden/Kobe. ISO starting from the top of the 3pt line over and over again and not draw up any sets or schemes to get easy shots for anyone.

MIL basically did a clinic on what happens when a coach trusts his bench and gets them run. A bench/role player will step up and give the team a good burst, and helping rest the starters (Giannis is basically logging 36mins a game while Kawhi has to go 42+ cuz Nurse refuses to use the bench).

I'm REAL curious to see what Doc would do with such a singular talent in Kawhi. I highly doubt he'd run him into the ground like Nurse is doing by making him earn every damn bucket the hard way.