2019 - 2021 Free-Agents

[mttwlsn16]

The Knicks can have him now.

[Wammy Giveaway]

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And with Anthony Davis restricting his trade demands to Lakers and Knicks, the Clippers backup plan better be good.

[mkwest]

Gotcha. Likewise, I don't have interest in Irving either. Obviously, the last thing I want is Anthony Davis on the Lakers, so I guess him going east would be best even if he were to team up in Brooklyn with Irving. Hopefully, the Knicks won't be able to secure AD and KD together.

Speaking of big free agents, I've been on record as saying that I think Kawhi comes to the Clippers regardless of what happens in the Finals and Kawhi himself has just come out and said that his free-agency plans will not be affected one way or the other by the current series against the Warriors regardless of the outcome. You would think this has to bode well for the Clippers' chances given that we've been the odds-on favorite to sign him for practically all of the postseason and beyond, plus, he reportedly and specifically wanted to be traded to the better Los Angeles team (the one without LeBron).

On the flip side, I think the Raptors winning the championship would actually hurt our chances at signing Durant assuming we sign Kawhi first. KD hasn't found happiness riding or even driving the bandwagon in Golden State because of his insecurity of the Warriors not being his team. Can you imagine him leaving Golden State amid criticisms of front-running only to join Kawhi on the Clippers after the Klaw carried the Raptors to a title? I'm not sure KD's fragile psyche can handle that.

At the same time, Jerry West and Doc Rivers may be able to convince him to see it differently. Even if he wants to lead his own team to a championship, he can't be as dense or cocky to think he'll be able to do so by himself. LeBron needed to team up with Wade in Miami and Irving in Cleveland. Unless he wants to join Irving in Brooklyn, it may be a matter of Durant choosing one or the other: share the glory with Kawhi in Los Angeles or lead a hapless Knicks team to nowhere.

Durant has admired and respected the Logo, so he would certainly benefit from West's advice just as Kobe and Shaq have in the past. For all the criticisms I have of Doc Rivers, I certainly recognize Rivers's inclination and adept ability to manage star players, especially those in need of ego boosts. Remember when he absurdly compared DeAndre Jordan to Bill Russell? Well, that got DJ to care about and excel in defense even as he selfishly padded his rebounding stats at the expense of the team. Rivers is probably the most qualified coach in the NBA to manage Durant's psyche while massaging his ego.

If we miss out on Kawhi, it may actually increase our chances at Durant. Although, I would certainly be disappointed in not getting K. Leonard regardless of whether we sign Durant or not.

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I'm not going to pretend to act like I know what is or isn't Kawhi's motivation this offseason. It can be spun based on whatever criteria (finances, loyalty, residential, winning potential, front office, etc.) someone is using at the moment. For example, if Toronto wins, he clearly chooses to stay, because why would he leave a ready-made contender? or...Toronto wins, so Kawhi can leave guilt-free having delivered a championship to them for taking the risk on him.

Obviously, I would love for him to come here, but I can't really make myself read into something one way or the other. I trust in this FO to make the most out of however it plays out.

It's a damned shame for KD.

[Ranma]

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[mkwest]

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[Vae Victus]

Well...... this changes EVERYTHING....

I'm now legit thinking Kawhi joining Lebron is now a strong possibility. Honestly, the Clippers best pitch was Kawhi being able to team up with KD, but with KD's severe injury where he'll likely be out a year and no one knows how strong he'll come back, it makes teaming up with Lebron seem more enticing. Lakers are on the record for tossing EVERYTHING for AD... and well by winning the #4 pick, their trade package got a huge boost.

NYK pretty much got gut shot, as KD + Kyrie then trade for AD was their plan. But without KD, a Kyrie + Buter? or Harris? (both of whom im now sure are gonna re-sign as i'm sure they'd want to run it back) dont seem to be so cheery anymore for Kyrie to jump ship from BOS. Hell if anything, maybe the path forward for LAC is pairing up Kawhi + Kyrie... then go after AD using SEGA as the headliner. If Kyrie decides to stay in BOS after all... then BOS needs to go for AD and offer up their own godfather offer to beat the Lakers own go for broke offer IF Kawhi decides to team up with Lebron.

Man, the FA landscape is gonna be nuts. KD next year wont be a factor. GSW took a crippling blow and it's gonna end their dynastic run. Basically whoever scores Kawhi + AD is gonna be the odds on favorite next year. The Lakers can legit be that team, especially if Kyrie leaves BOS out in the cold as they retool for a future run.

[Galloisdaman]

Well...... this changes EVERYTHING....

I'm now legit thinking Kawhi joining Lebron is now a strong possibility. Honestly, the Clippers best pitch was Kawhi being able to team up with KD, but with KD's severe injury where he'll likely be out a year and no one knows how strong he'll come back, it makes teaming up with Lebron seem more enticing. Lakers are on the record for tossing EVERYTHING for AD... and well by winning the #4 pick, their trade package got a huge boost.

NYK pretty much got gut shot, as KD + Kyrie then trade for AD was their plan. But without KD, a Kyrie + Buter? or Harris? (both of whom im now sure are gonna re-sign as i'm sure they'd want to run it back) dont seem to be so cheery anymore for Kyrie to jump ship from BOS. Hell if anything, maybe the path forward for LAC is pairing up Kawhi + Kyrie... then go after AD using SEGA as the headliner. If Kyrie decides to stay in BOS after all... then BOS needs to go for AD and offer up their own godfather offer to beat the Lakers own go for broke offer IF Kawhi decides to team up with Lebron.

Man, the FA landscape is gonna be nuts. KD next year wont be a factor. GSW took a crippling blow and it's gonna end their dynastic run. Basically whoever scores Kawhi + AD is gonna be the odds on favorite next year. The Lakers can legit be that team, especially if Kyrie leaves BOS out in the cold as they retool for a future run.

Dont know if you are saying the Lakers get all 3. Dont think that is possible. If I'm the Pelicans I trade AD were I want not to who he demands.

[Quake Griffin]

Imagine if our whole season was about trying to sign Kevin Du.....

Know what?
Nvm.

[MartinToVaught]

Raptors fans showed their true colors by cheering for Durant's injury last night.

Not happening, but it would be instant karma for them to lose this series and then Kawhi leaves them for the Clippers.

[Quake Griffin]

Would you sign Kevin Durant to a 4 year deal knowing he is going to miss essentially an entire season?

Would you pay $35 million to ensure you had Kevin for 3 more seasons?

[Galloisdaman]

I thought AD said he wanted to win? Why NY and LA Lakers if he wants to win?

[Ranma]

It's funny how all this public talk coming from Myers about Kevin Durant being the most understood player in basketball is now coming out after the injury instead of before when there was pressure for him to play and talk of him not caring and frustration within the organization. It's a clear attempt to control the narrative in the media.

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[Ranma]

Would you sign Kevin Durant to a 4 year deal knowing he is going to miss essentially an entire season?

Would you pay $35 million to ensure you had Kevin for 3 more seasons?

While I don't agree with going all in one way or the other whether it's free agency or the tanking for the draft a la Hinkie's "Process", I'm not going to accept paying $38 million to a guy who got hurt for another team just to give us the privilege of paying him big money in future years.

It would effectively mean tanking an entire season to do so for a single player and Ballmer and the Clippers have come out previously to say that they are about giving it their all each and every season. It's hard to justify such talk if you're going to sign KD to a max deal while he's hurt when you won't tank for lottery picks. I even understand that there are varying degrees to each situation, but to effectively tank a single season for one reason but not another would not sit well with me.

[playaloc916]

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Him getting injured just makes this tweet even more painful for Durant... His image is shot, now suffered a devastating career-altering injury in the middle of his prime, things can't get much worse for him at this point...

I'm not sure if KD was ever really a possibility to team up with Kawhi, but it seems like that's now basically 0% chance now.

I mentioned before that I think Kawhi is going to wait it out and see where the other FA's land before making a decision. This for sure will factor into his decision. Kyrie is also probably scratching his head at this point.

[madmaxmedia]

Would you sign Kevin Durant to a 4 year deal knowing he is going to miss essentially an entire season?

Would you pay $35 million to ensure you had Kevin for 3 more seasons?

While I don't agree with going all in one way or the other whether it's free agency or the tanking for the draft a la Hinkie's "Process", I'm not going to accept paying $38 million to a guy who got hurt for another team just to give us the privilege of paying him big money in future years.

It would effectively mean tanking an entire season to do so for a single player and Ballmer and the Clippers have come out previously to say that they are about giving it their all each and every season. It's hard to justify such talk if you're going to sign KD to a max deal while he's hurt when you won't tank for lottery picks. I even understand that there are varying degrees to each situation, but to effectively tank a single season for one reason but not another would not sit well with me.

It's not tanking though, it's deciding the good (KD for 3 years) is better than the bad (missing a year.) It's of course more complicated than that, in that we don't know how his recovery is going to go, what he's going to lose from his game, etc.

But, let's say we have a hypothetical best case scenario, where A) Kevin Durant returns at the end of next season in time for the playoffs, and B) Kevin Durant recovers to almost the same basketball player he was before getting hurt. Would you sign him to a 4 year max deal?

I think I would, if we aren't able to sign Kawhi. I think the Clippers have the ideal situation for taking it on. They can sign him without needing him to make the playoffs, and at least get some KD to maybe help them get into the second round. After that, they are in a really good position for the next 3 years.

That's the ideal scenario of course, and you can't assume the best case scenario. I'm less worried about how much time he'll miss (because at most it will be all of next season) than I am what kind of player he is going to be for the 3 years after that. Will he be at 60%? 80%? 90%? I think he will recover to at least roughly max salary level production, if you consider right now he's much better than other guys that are going to earn max contracts.

[madmaxmedia]

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Him getting injured just makes this tweet even more painful for Durant... His image is shot, now suffered a devastating career-altering injury in the middle of his prime, things can't get much worse for him at this point...

I'm not sure if KD was ever really a possibility to team up with Kawhi, but it seems like that's now basically 0% chance now.

I mentioned before that I think Kawhi is going to wait it out and see where the other FA's land before making a decision. This for sure will factor into his decision. Kyrie is also probably scratching his head at this point.

Ironically this terrible injury has changed the narrative around him overnight. I think people are now rushing to his support, and in general fans are going to respect that he came back to play and risked what ultimately happened to him. It's fun to joke about his burner accounts, but he suffered a terrible injury at almost the worst time for him personally (and for the team.) Also, the Warriors have struggled without him against the Raptors which is a reversal from the Portland sweep.

[wco81]

So Windhorst says some executives still expect him to opt out.

Bobby Marks said he's talked to 3 teams who still plan to pursue him. Whether they will offer a full 4 year 140 million is unknown but they wouldn't put in any injury exceptions in their contracts.

[Ranma]

It's not tanking though, it's deciding the good (KD for 3 years) is better than the bad (missing a year.) It's of course more complicated than that, in that we don't know how his recovery is going to go, what he's going to lose from his game, etc.

But, let's say we have a hypothetical best case scenario, where A) Kevin Durant returns at the end of next season in time for the playoffs, and B) Kevin Durant recovers to almost the same basketball player he was before getting hurt. Would you sign him to a 4 year max deal?

I think I would, if we aren't able to sign Kawhi. I think the Clippers have the ideal situation for taking it on. They can sign him without needing him to make the playoffs, and at least get some KD to maybe help them get into the second round. After that, they are in a really good position for the next 3 years.

That's the ideal scenario of course, and you can't assume the best case scenario. I'm less worried about how much time he'll miss (because at most it will be all of next season) than I am what kind of player he is going to be for the 3 years after that. Will he be at 60%? 80%? 90%? I think he will recover to at least roughly max salary level production, if you consider right now he's much better than other guys that are going to earn max contracts.

Call it whatever you like, but like I said, you're effectively giving up the season or at the very least a roster spot and the accompanying vast resources in salary-cap space to better the team in the short term for a gamble on the long-term game, which is what the purpose of tanking is, by the way. I've already acknowledged the varying degrees of difference between the two situations. The promise of a Kevin Durant even in a reduced state is considered more valuable than a late lottery pick, but the fact remains that signing an injured Durant is a tank job regardless of what you call it.

Ironically this terrible injury has changed the narrative around him overnight. I think people are now rushing to his support, and in general fans are going to respect that he came back to play and risked what ultimately happened to him. Also, the Warriors have struggled without him against the Raptors which is a reversal from the Portland sweep.

I concur. The pendulum of public opinion and media narrative swings heavily one way over to the other side. Regardless of the injury, Durant is still a petty and insecure guy, That doesn't change because of the injury. In fact, his insecurities were used against him to pressure him into playing.

Not only that, when he did get hurt he willingly and casually turned the ball over for a prime scoring opportunity for the other team during an NBA Finals game. Yes, I know that he likely ruptured his Achilles at that point, but he had enough presence of mind and was not in excruciating pain to where he was able to calmly hop to the side and take a seat as the play continued on. So why didn't he just throw the ball out of bounds (he was already at the sideline) or land on the ball to call a time out?

In the end, it didn't matter as the Warriors were able to rally from that moment on as the Raptors were the ones more shell-shocked by the injury, but it does show that he'll always prioritize himself first even in the heat of battle. Also, it's not like I have don't have some sympathy for the guy but I'm not exactly broken up over his self-inflicted injury albeit one he was pressured into.

This is exactly why I was willing to give Kawhi Leonard the benefit of the doubt when there was question about his injury. You can also refer to Grant Hill before that and how the Pistons ran him into the ground to shorten his Hall-of-Fame career. We can even look to how the Clippers have handled Blake Griffin's injury as an example of not always siding with the organizations over the players.

[madmaxmedia]

It's not tanking though, it's deciding the good (KD for 3 years) is better than the bad (missing a year.) It's of course more complicated than that, in that we don't know how his recovery is going to go, what he's going to lose from his game, etc.

But, let's say we have a hypothetical best case scenario, where A) Kevin Durant returns at the end of next season in time for the playoffs, and B) Kevin Durant recovers to almost the same basketball player he was before getting hurt. Would you sign him to a 4 year max deal?

I think I would, if we aren't able to sign Kawhi. I think the Clippers have the ideal situation for taking it on. They can sign him without needing him to make the playoffs, and at least get some KD to maybe help them get into the second round. After that, they are in a really good position for the next 3 years.

That's the ideal scenario of course, and you can't assume the best case scenario. I'm less worried about how much time he'll miss (because at most it will be all of next season) than I am what kind of player he is going to be for the 3 years after that. Will he be at 60%? 80%? 90%? I think he will recover to at least roughly max salary level production, if you consider right now he's much better than other guys that are going to earn max contracts.

Call it whatever you like, but like I said, you're effectively giving up the season or at the very least a roster spot and the accompanying vast resources in salary-cap space to better the team in the short term for a gamble on the long-term game, which is what the purpose of tanking is, by the way. I've already akcnowledged the varying degrees of difference between the two situations. The promise of a Kevin Durant even in a reduced state is considered more valuable than a late lottery pick, but the fact remains that signing an injured Durant is a tank job regardless of what you call it.

I guess to me it's more a evaluation of total return, than just about next season. Would you rather sign KD or Jimmy Butler, etc.

To me, Kevin Durant is still a significant FA prospect for us. OTOH the scenario I described was just hypothetical, the reality is a lot trickier and there are a lot of other options. Before the injury I considered KD and KL in a class by themselves as FA targets, with maybe a nod to KD if that meant preventing him from re-signing in GSW. That obviously changes now. Kawhi is the one everyone wants, but is a complete cipher and not your typical star either in terms of personality- so we just don't know what he's going to do. The last 2 days before FA starts everyone could be saying he's coming here, then he re-signs in Toronto- or vice versa. And after him, there are guys that are either redundant position-wise, older, questionable personality-wise, or arguably not worth a max, or a some combination of those traits. And then you have AD, who you have to give up pieces for and may not be able to get a long-term commitment from.

If we don't sign Kawhi, I don't think signing KD is any more tanking than not signing anyone, or signing a guy we will regret in 2 years. Everyone besides KL is a judgement call right now.

But yeah, I get your point, I'm not disagreeing so much as just generally discussing.

[madmaxmedia]

So Windhorst says some executives still expect him to opt out.

Bobby Marks said he's talked to 3 teams who still plan to pursue him. Whether they will offer a full 4 year 140 million is unknown but they wouldn't put in any injury exceptions in their contracts.

I think if you're going to sign him, then you're going to give him a full 4 years so you hopefully get 3 good years out of the deal. I mean you could do a 3 + 1 year team deal or something like that, but you're competing against other teams. What could change is the amount of money perhaps. I don't know, it's gonna be complicated...

You obviously don't offer him a deal unless you think he's going to make a full recovery, in which case it seems like 3 or 4 years is better than 2 (which would be wasting 1 year to get 1 year after that.) If you have serious doubts about how his recovery is going to go, then you're not going to go after him at all given the timing.

People are reporting he'll be out all next season, but I don't know if it's possible he could return late in the season or for the playoffs. He'd obviously be rusty and not 100% effective, but I think anticipating a late season return also changes the calculus somewhat.