POLL: Tobias Harris Turns Down $80 Million | What's the Right Price?

[Quake Griffin]

Lol. Crippler Cross Face ftw.
I’ll relax.

No objection from me to a winning season and the 9th seed.

Would be awesome.

Just making sure the best front office mind of all time has another crack at improving our talent base with a cheap cost controlled player....before he gets too old to do his job/ retires. Viable. Respectable. Multiple avenues to get better next offseason.

Thanks Wammy.

Quake.
Over and out.


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[esqtvd]

Guys, cut it out. You're ruining the flow of the board, you leave me no choice but to be a mediator.

Esq, what do you want from Quake?

Quake, are you trying to goad Esq into a submission?

I can tell you right now that the arguments you're having on Tobias Harris is a moot point. It's not just about upping his stat production, it's helping the Clippers to defeat some of the tougher opponents. Be the guy to defeat the Warriors without requiring a career high 50 PTS from Lou Williams, a bench player. Be the guy to defeat the Rockets without taking things personally, like with Chris Paul and Blake Griffin who now hate each other. Be the guy to defeat the LeBron Lakers in a world that is selfishly predicting a Lakers-Celtics Finals series because the league operates in legacy terms. Harris may not be a superstar, the Clippers may see another lost season, but they're not going to pretend that they don't matter. This is the season where they can prove to the sports world they still belong, and if they have a winning record as a 9th seed, and the other pieces on the roster perform to their optimal standards, they will be in the running for superstars in the 2019 off-season and become the elite team they should have been when David Stern vetoed the Chris Paul trade.

If you continue to argue about Tobias's worth, a mod is gonna have to step in.

I'm not arguing and neither are you. We agree. So do Ballmer and West. We are not gonna tank. We are gonna play to win, not to suck just to preserve some middling draft pick.

Neither is there any flow in the board to disrupt at this time. All the threads are pretty dead. Thank you for your participation.

[Quake Griffin]

Just for clarification.

And then I’m done...frfr.
He can have the last word.

None of them have said, “we are playing this season and DGAF about the draft pick.” I’ve heard Ballmer say no to tanking (which I’m not advocating for). I’ve heard the fans mentioned. Not this pick.

If they did, the quote would have been produced over and over and over. I’d have been billy clubbed in the head with it 50 times.

We look poised to play hard and keep our lottery pick. Cool with me.

“Drafting is the lifeblood of an organization”
- Jerry.

He’s been on my side for over 30 years.

Good day.



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[esqtvd]

He can have the last word.

Meh.

History of the NBA Draft – Pick Number 14
Number 14

Year Player School/Country – Team

2017 Bam Adebayo, Kentucky – Miami HEAT
2016 Denzel Valentine, Michigan State – Chicago Bulls
2015 Cameron Payne, Murray State – Oklahoma City Thunder
2014 TJ Warren, NC State – Phoenix Suns
2013 Shabazz Muhammad, UCLA – Utah Jazz
2012 John Henson, UNC – Milwaukee Bucks
2011 Marcus Morris, Kansas – Houston Rockets
2010 Patrick Patterson, Kentucky – Houston Rockets

2000’s

2009 Earl Clark, Louisville – Phoenix Suns
2008 Anthony Randolph, LSU – Golden State Warriors
2007 Al Thornton, Florida State – L.A. Clippers
2006 Ronnie Brewer, Arkansas – Utah Jazz
2005 Rashad McCants, North Carolina – Minnesota Timberwolves
2004 Kris Humphries, Minnesota – Utah Jazz
2003 Luke Ridnour, Oregon – Seattle Supersonics
2002 Fred Jones, Oregon – Indiana Pacers
2001 Troy Murphy, Notre Dame – Golden State Warriors
2000 Mateen Cleaves, Michigan State – Detroit Pistons

1990’s

1999 William Avery, Duke – Minnesota Timberwolves
1998 Michael Dickerson, Arizona – Houston Rockets
1997 Maurice Taylor, Michigan – L.A. Clippers
1996 Predrag Stojakovic, Serbia & Montenegro – Sacramento Kings
1995 Eric Williams, Providence – Boston Celtics
1994 Yinka Dare, George Washington – New Jersey Nets
1993 Scott Haskin, Oregon State – Indiana Pacers
1992 Malik Sealy, St. John’s – Indiana Pacers
1991 Rich King, Nebraska – Seattle Supersonics
1990 Travis Mays, Texas – Sacramento Kings

[Quake Griffin]

It’s too addictive.

We certainly are destined to be the best team to miss the playoffs.

The pick most certainly WILL be #14.

[/green]


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[QRich3]

So, I know I'm gonna be in the minority in this, as most of you love Tobi, and I do too to some extent, but I think what he turned down was already an overpay that we'd end up regretting. Signing him to anything higher than that will end up being a disaster imo.

He is a nice complimentary offensive player, but nothing more than that. He is bad defensively and every +/- stat indicates he bleeds on one side most of what he gives you on the other. For me, he is not the kind of player you spend a quarter of the salary cap in, not even close.

I'd be happiest if we end up trading him for a mid 1st rounder and an expiring, if I'm honest.

[Quake Griffin]

So, I know I'm gonna be in the minority in this, as most of you love Tobi, and I do too to some extent, but I think what he turned down was already an overpay that we'd end up regretting. Signing him to anything higher than that will end up being a disaster imo.

He is a nice complimentary offensive player, but nothing more than that. He is bad defensively and every +/- stat indicates he bleeds on one side most of what he gives you on the other. For me, he is not the kind of player you spend a quarter of the salary cap in, not even close.

I'd be happiest if we end up trading him for a mid 1st rounder and an expiring, if I'm honest.

I don't think you are tbh. I think most people recognize his limitations. He's also not young enough to think there's going to be significant change in something like him on the defensive end of the basketball. Most of my contention with him being our #1 priority for us this season is that he isn't a superstar and has the weaknesses you stated. I said before, if he was LeBron, Durant, or Curry, I'd pull out all the stops for him this season.

I'd like to think maybe we could get something higher than a mid 1st. I'd also like a throw in 2nd rounder too but I realize he is an expiring.

Seems like if we went to trade him this season, the season would be going poorly. So I'd imagine we have a top 5-7 pick and the mid 1st rounder you suggested. Makings of a good package to get into the top 3/4 of next year's draft.

[TucsonClip]

Im fine taking him to free agency next summer. But I agree, im not paying him a quarter of the cap. No harm in seeing how an active market plays out next summer. Losing him for nothing (on a massive contract) wouldnt make me too upset either.

This summer is the tipping point. Either we jump start a new era via this free agency class, or we shift to the rebuild.

[nickhx2]

was kinda thinking the same thing. in a way kinda glad he didn't re-sign because he's not the guy you wanna commit that much money to, but now you have to worry about the team potentially committing even more. not sure how we're gonna handle it but i could see him just walking.

[Ranma]

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[TrueLAfan]

Great article. I do think the way the article is set up might get people that don’t think too deeply about it to think the article is stating Harris is not valuable. He is—the strengths the article notes are considerable, and offset his flaws. But this is a reminder that Tobias Harris is, IMO, a #2 player on a good (45-55 win team) and a #3 player (or co-#2 player) on a great team. Expecting him—and more importantly paying him—to be an alpha guy on a championship contending team would be a big mistake.

IMO, there are a bunch number of players in the NBA with value similar to Tobias—guys like Bradley Beal, Otto Porter, Khris Middleton, C. J. MCollum and Will Barton come to mind. All of those are very good to great players. But none of them are guys you build a team around. They’re important pieces. That’s a big distinction. You pay guys you can build around max money. You pay guys that are level or a level and a half below that less. That’s what I’m talking about here—and that’s what this article says. When it concludes:

Next summer, though, it’s likely some franchise ignores his finishing, passing and defensive troubles. It’ll ink him to lengthy, expensive deal worth far more than the one he recently turned down and make him a go-to option, lauding him as the missing link in the team’s vision. And for all the things Harris does well, I’m just not sure providing a return on that investment is going to be one of them.

it's not saying Harris isn’t a really good player. It’s saying he is what he is—a co #2 option level guy for a championship caliber team. Asking him to do more—making him a go-to option and alpha guy—is not going to go well. And he certainly shouldn’t be paid like that. I stick with what I’ve said from the start—Tobias is a really good to great player that could be an important piece of a great team. To me, that’s a 5 year/$110-$120 million player. Get two guys at that level/price and a real alpha guy at a max deal, and you’re committing $75-80 million a year to a terrific big three. We need to recognize what Tobias is and is worth while not overpaying.

[Ranma]

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[Ranma]

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Jonathan Tjarks, TheRinger.com (9/21/18)

12. Los Angeles Clippers—Tobias Harris and Montrezl Harrell

Harris has played on four teams in seven seasons in the NBA, but he’s much better than most players with his track record. He’s a 26-year-old who averaged 19.3 points on 47.3 percent shooting, 6.0 rebounds, and 3.1 assists in 32 games with the Clippers last season. At 6-foot-9 and 235 pounds, Harris is a combo forward who threatens defenses on or off the ball. He would be a great pick-and-pop partner with Lou Williams, or he could be the primary option if Clippers head coach Doc Rivers keeps Williams as the sixth man.

The bigger question for Rivers is who replaces Jordan at center. Los Angeles traded for Marcin Gortat in the offseason, but he’s a rapidly declining 34-year-old who talked about retirement last season. Harrell is an athletic rim-runner who outplayed Jordan at times last season. If the fourth-year big man can continue to improve on defense, he could easily pass Gortat. Their young frontcourt has to take a step forward for the Clippers to exceed expectations this season, unless they end up getting moved for Butler first.

The Best Frontcourt Duos in the Western Conference, Ranked

[TrueLAfan]

One of the things that’s going to be interesting with Harris this year is to see how he responds to—or if he cares about—staying with a team. Harris has been one of the guys that has shown steady growth—but with no spectacular leaps or sudden drops. As a result, he’s been considered a future asset and/or near star whose been included in multiple trades. That underscores that he is not an alpha leader of a great team—he’s best utilized a high quality piece of a championship level team. In a way, that’s bad.

But you also have to consider that, through a variety of teams and coaches (four teams, six coaches), his growth has been consistent. And, what’s kinda more surprising, he has yet to find a coach or team he hasn’t fit into. He has flaws, but is apparently able to utilize his skills in a variety of offensive situation. I don’t think Jacque Vaughn, Scott Skiles. Stan Van Gundy and Doc Rivers run very similar offenses. Tobias has played well for all of them. But he hasn’t had continuity. Does he want it? We know how Lou felt about this—is it conceivable that Tobias Harris might also pass up a few million dollars to stay with a strong franchise that wants him long term?

[Wammy Giveaway]

Maybe Tobias Harris is gone sooner than we think. Rumor has it Jazz are interested in him.

(from https://www.thesportster.com/basketball/trades-signings-during-nba-season/)

Tobias Harris remains under the radar despite having another impressive season under his belt. He had been traded to the Los Angeles Clippers earlier this year, although he declined to sign an $80 million extension with the team. Now that he is heading to free agency next summer, the Utah Jazz are said to be among the many teams interested in him. Not only would Harris make a great fit for their roster and style of play, but there is mutual interest on his part according to the Jazz radio voice David Locke. It makes sense for both sides and may very well happen next year.

[Popovich]

He is a nice complimentary offensive player, but nothing more than that.

I do not agree, he was your main go to guy since he came. He knows that team needs him desperately that is why he is sort of blackmailing the front office IMO. 80 mills is enough but at this point I would give him 100 without thinking much.

[Quake Griffin]

He is a nice complimentary offensive player, but nothing more than that.

I do not agree, he was your main go to guy since he came. He knows that team needs him desperately that is why he is sort of blackmailing the front office IMO. 80 mills is enough but at this point I would give him 100 without thinking much.

Yes. Any team in which he is the main go to guy is not going to be very good. This is why he is a nice complimentary offensive player but nothing more than that.

[esqtvd]

IOW, Tobias is the most overrated underrated player in the NBA.

Tobias has gotten better every year and is poised to cross the 20 ppg threshold. He shot over 40% from distance, and at 6'8" that's a big deal in this 21st century. You'd like to see him get to the line more often and maybe be tougher on D, but pretty much everyone in the 20 ppg club is an All-Star.

There are only 23 20 ppg scorers [plus Steph, who played too few games to make this list] and there are 30 teams, and the top teams have more than one. Yes, it's doubtful Tobias will become one of those magic 25 ppg guys, but if he continues to show this progress as a scorer [he was 29th @18.6, and @19.3 as a Clipper], you can't turn your nose up at him.

Points Per Game
1. James Harden • HOU 30.4
2. Anthony Davis • NOP 28.1
3. LeBron James • CLE 27.5
4. Damian Lillard • POR 26.9
5. Giannis Antetokounmpo • MIL 26.9
6. Kevin Durant • GSW 26.4
7. Russell Westbrook • OKC 25.4
8. Kyrie Irving • BOS 24.4
9. LaMarcus Aldridge • SAS 23.1
9. Victor Oladipo • IND 23.1
11. DeMar DeRozan • TOR 23.0
12. Joel Embiid • PHI 22.9
13. Bradley Beal • WAS 22.6
14. Lou Williams • LAC 22.6
15. Jimmy Butler • MIN 22.2
16. Kemba Walker • CHO 22.1
17. Paul George • OKC 21.9
18. Blake Griffin • TOT 21.4
19. CJ McCollum • POR 21.4
20. Karl-Anthony Towns • MIN 21.3
21. Donovan Mitchell • UTA 20.5
22. Khris Middleton • MIL 20.1
23. Klay Thompson • GSW 20.0

[Ranma]

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