2019 - 2021 Free-Agents

[Ranma]

Read on Twitter

[Ranma]

[Ranma]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[Ranma]

Read on Twitter

[wco81]

Wow that's a lot for a 33-34 year old guy.

[mkwest]

Read on Twitter

[Galloisdaman]

Read on Twitter

I do not know if 14-15 a yer makes sense for Pat but you never know.

[esqtvd]

Read on Twitter

I do not know if 14-15 a yer makes sense for Pat but you never know.

I love the man but no can do. I had him at 3 yr/$28M. Sure, I'll go 31. But 35 and it's bye bye, well done, so long and thanks for all the fish.


And frankly, I think he's worth $15M to a gutless org like the Sixers. Or Lakers.

[Galloisdaman]

Read on Twitter

I do not know if 14-15 a yer makes sense for Pat but you never know.

I love the man but no can do. I had him at 3 yr/$28M. Sure, I'll go 31. But 35 and it's bye bye, well done, so long and thanks for all the fish.


And frankly, I think he's worth $15M to a gutless org like the Sixers. Or Lakers.

I ctually think the 76ers did pretty well. They only lost by 2 points to the eventual champs and thats with their best player playing at less than 100%.

I just don't think its wise to pay a 9 point per game guard 15 mill a year. Sure Pat can have some great moments but on a championship team I see him as much more a reserve than a 15 mill player. I can understand people disagreeing though.

[Quake Griffin]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

While I love what is being said here, I wonder if that rings true throughout the entire organization. There's a number of cooks in the kitchen now and I'm sure they have differing perspectives.

We do have a tampering fine (that I think is legitimate, sorry guys) and it was reported (wonder how true it is but it seems feasible) that the fine was more of a fine for our overall behavior over the year and not just one stand alone comment.

While I disagree with Windhorst (who I think knows nothing about what is happening in our organization) that we are hyperventilating, I was concerned with our eggs being in one basket.
Trading back into the 1st with the use of Philly's protected pick alleviates much of that concern.

Love having an organization that is into the draft and into finding talent.

[TrueLAfan]

About Bev ... This is starting to shape up like 2016 all over again. I love Pat Bev. I would absolutely love to keep him. He brings huge intangibles. His value definitely outweighs his numbers.

…Except his numbers are mediocre. And by that, I mean “below average for an NBA starter.” That’s the truth of it. I think he’s—obviously—worth more than his numbers. But I think the increase is the difference between six or seven million, which is what a 26-28 mpg point guard that is very good on D but doesn’t distribute very well, scores less than a point every three and a half minutes and is on the other side of 30 is worth by the numbers, and the $8-10 million we should offer him. He isn’t worth more. He may be able to get more this offseason because quite a few teams have money to throw around but that’s not what his actual value is. Like I said, I think his attitude and toughness and character are worth a lot. A ten million dollar difference over three years is a lot; it’s a 50 percent bump in this. That’s a testament to the character/intangibles thing. But there’s a ceiling to that.

To jump to another player we’re supposedly in the hunt for … I really like Al Horford too. And all the positive things about Pat Bev apply to Horford as well. He’s worth more than his numbers. And he’s a below average rebounder who has had a past history of injuries that is only a decent scorer and is a 33 year old that played less than 2000 minutes last year. He’s a 14-16 million dollar player by the numbers. I could see offering him 17 or 18. I think 20 million is too much, but I could see how a team that wanted his character would pony up. The rumors that someone wants to pay $112 million over 4 years are ludicrous. That’s Robin money; that’s what you pay a true second option on a championship contending team. That’s what Khris Middleton should get…and he’s got all the good attitude and defensive qualities of Horford, and he scores more, is more than five years younger and plays about 30 percent more each year. And, yeah, those differences are worth 8 million a year.

[Quake Griffin]

Is it even worth it to sign Horford on his own?

Isn't he a guy we should be looking to sign to pair with Kawhi?

[mttwlsn16]

Is it even worth it to sign Horford on his own?

Isn't he a guy we should be looking to sign to pair with Kawhi?

Correct.
Horford by himself makes zero sense.
Horford w Kawhi makes a ton of sense.

[Ranma]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[Ranma]

Is it even worth it to sign Horford on his own?

Isn't he a guy we should be looking to sign to pair with Kawhi?

No.

Yes.

As TrueLAfan eloquently pointed out, there is a limit to the premium a player should be paid due to intangibles and circumstances that go beyond the numbers (production, age and other measurables). Horford is a fine player to add to any team in a vacuum, but given his advancing age and limited on-court production, he's not worth the rumored asking price being bandied about.

I was already uncomfortable with the idea of giving him 3 years on a contract offer, but am willing to go to 4 years only if it is front-loaded with the latter years approaching $12 million. He can even have a player option for that 4th year at that price. The way I see it, his contract should be broken down as follows:

2019-20: $35 million
2020-21: $20 million
2021-22: $15 million
2022-23: $12 million (player option)

That's a base of $70 million over 3 years with a guarantee for $82 million over 4 years if he chooses to exercise his player option for his age 36 season. Obviously, that's not close to what he and his agent are apparently looking for, so there is wiggle room. However, what I've laid out is fair given that he'll start out being paid at a max-level salary during the first year of this proposed deal while still getting the long-term security his camp has been seeking since opting out of the $30-million salary with Boston. And this deal only makes sense if we get Kawhi Leonard, otherwise, it's a non-starter.

The only reason Horford is being considered is because Durant is injured and adding a second star to Kawhi helps maximize our window with a star free-agent signing, but there comes a point of diminishing returns in contract negotiations since this team is built for sustained success over the long haul and not just an all-in, go-for-broke shot during a narrow and rapidly-closing window to compete. It's why we didn't and shouldn't give up the farm for possibly renting Anthony Davis.

AD, by the way, represented a similar proposition albeit at a significantly higher level. Both Horford and Davis are great complimentary players but neither is good enough to carry a team on his own. While the Brow is deserving of a max contract, it made no sense to commit heavy resources to acquiring him unless or until we got assurances of getting a true star capable of carrying a franchise to pair him with. Recreating the situation in New Orleans pre-Zion made little to no sense, especially when AD could choose to leave afterwards and leave us in an even worse position.

[TucsonClip]

I was already uncomfortable with the idea of giving him 3 years on a contract offer, but am willing to go to 4 years only if it is front-loaded with the latter years approaching $12 million. He can even have a player option for that 4th year at that price. The way I see it, his contract should be broken down as follows:

2019-20: $35 million
2020-21: $20 million
2021-22: $15 million
2022-23: $12 million (player option)

That's a base of $70 million over 3 years with a guarantee for $82 million over 4 years if he chooses to exercise his player option for his age 36 season. Obviously, that's not close to what he and his agent are apparently looking for, so there is wiggle room. However, what I've laid out is fair given that he'll start out being paid at a max-level salary during the first year of this proposed deal while still getting the long-term security his camp has been seeking since opting out of the $30-million salary with Boston. And this deal only makes sense if we get Kawhi Leonard, otherwise, it's a non-starter.

Since we dont have Bird rights on Horford, the maximum raises we can offer are 5% off the first year salary. Same applies for decreases. I think you may have been thinking of offer sheets to restricted free agency with 1 or two years in the league (Arenas Rule). This allows for a jump in the third year of the contract to compensate for the Arenas Rule provision of year one not being more than the non-tax payer mid level.

[wco81]

Yeah isn’t it only the NFL which has the front loaded contracts?

And that’s because none of them are fully guaranteed, only the signing bonus mad maybe the first two years.

[Captain Ballmer]

I'd say no to Horford if he demands more than 15md per year. He aint worth it with his legs starting to slow. I see him like Marc Gasol in a year or two, whom plays barely 25 mpg in his best day.

Our window to compete starts in 2021. It would have started in 2019 if we had KD+KL locked on the same team this summer but that's out of the window now with KD out for 2019-2020. Overpaying Horford only cripples our future beyond 2021... We can't miss the sign our future big(prreferably under age 25) in either this summer or the next.

We should look out to Sabonis, Jonathan Isaac, DJ wilson, Zach Collins, Portis. These guys are not reached to the level where Towns-Bagley-Siakam-Turner is(untouchable). Our scouting should work on these guys and compare it with the Harrell's development and hit the jackpot according to their assessment for the best option.

[Galloisdaman]

If Horford was not a center would you ever offer any other position player coming off a 13.6 point and 6.7 rebound season 28 mill a year?

[Quake Griffin]

Read on Twitter

Either we're really confident Kawhi is coming here and we can pair the two; or

We're comfortable with adding more glue guys/ grinders/ tough/ professional etc. etc. to our Little Engine That Could team and being lauded as a team that plays hard even though we don't win.

1st idea I like....particularly since we are invested in the draft and developing young talent. I have no issue with this team pursuing veterans.

The 2nd idea...meh.

I almost forgot that we beat Golden State twice and that they were the "best wins in franchise history"
Show me a ring. Not twitter support for how hard we play.