JOSH SMITH to Clippers

[MarszalA]

Great signing for you for the vet minimum.
You got a player who played well and could play on at least 3 positions. I don't understand why you are complaining on him but it's up to you.

[The High Cyde]

I...I can't believe we have an actual respectable bench now, given how limited our flexibility was. This season can't start soon enough, it's gonna be wild. A+ offseason for sure.

Just some quick thoughts:
Spurs reloaded in a huge way and they sacrificed depth for a star, but that Pop system is proven to make scrubs into good-to-very good role players. I'll only expect greater things when an actual star signs there. The antithesis to the Spurs is athleticism, and I think we have that now more than ever.
The Warriors are still the team to beat, but I don't think they'll pass last years dominance, albeit that'd be hard for any elite team to do, they were just that damn good. Still, I don't see them repeating.
I think we can handle OKC, but that goes out the window if Durant and Westbrook detonate on the league.
I believe we're in the top tier in the WC, and that means a decent gamblers shot at the Finals and the title. Even if we make it there, that one guy who wears 23 will be hell bent on getting his third ring. So...we'll see.

It all depends on defense and team cohesion.

And the guy that sent us home signs with us, ha! Though I don't quite understand why Smith didn't resign with Houston given that they offered him more money, they got to the conference finals, and his friendship with Dwight. What gives?

Plus I agree with the common consensus that Jamal has to go. Like, yesterday. That guy is putrid to watch.

First time posting on this board, I expect to learn a ton of stuff here.

[QRich3]

That's not what I'm saying at all. If there's a deal out there that makes sense, then by all means trade Jamal. Something like Taj Gibson or Markieff Morris. Not something like Marvin Williams.

If there isn't, then keep him. Something will come up closer to the trade deadline.

It isn't smart to trade Jamal without knowing which Lance shows up. He could be a disaster.

Wow seriously? Marvin Williams would be a home run for Jamal, not only because of their overall value but because what Williams brings to the table, we need a lot more than what Jamal does. You're a clever poster but I have to seriously doubt your evaluation here. Remember we still don't have a SF that we can rely on for the whole season. Pierce will be injured a lot or needing to rest during the RS, and Wes is a very good candidate to be Doc's doghouse resident. Marvin is not a stopper but he's nowhere that bad a defender as you paint him. Numbers actually put him as plus on defense, a minus on offense. If we didn't get him in the Hawes trade was because the Hornets were only taking his contract if we got Lance off their hands. He was a big distraction for them.

Forgetting about all the resentment for his past performances, about all the hate he gets for his decision-making and his defense, let's leave it aside and focus on his main skills. Jamal is an on-ball shot-creator who can work some as a spot up shooter. That is the one skill the current Clippers need less, nearly half our roster are guys whose main skill is to create with the ball in their hands. Plus we're too guard heavy and too offense-oriented. It's just not about him, it's about what we need to round up the roster. We need a bench guy who can play 10-20 minutes a game and not need to touch the ball a lot, play hard defense, and either be a SF or a C. Basically the opposite of what he brings to the table. Webster would be a good bet, if he can be healthy he's just what we need, if he can't then we waive him next year and he's about as useful as playing Jamal for 5 minutes a game would be.

We don't need to land a Gibson caliber player, that's unrealistic, we need to shore up our bench now. And Jamal doesn't bring anything to the table that we don't have a surplus of.

[Mr Gametime]

Great move getting Josh Smith, the Clippers are as good as any team in the NBA.

[KDRE]

What does Marvin Williams do?

To be honest he left college too soon and til this day he still looks like it

[og15]

PERFECT and we keep craw (or trade him for more parts)

he can come of the bench so blake dont got to play 45+ in playoffs.
he also can sub in for dj when they go hacka dj end of games.

if blake works on his shot more he can shift to sf(for a big line)

also he can heat up just remember what he did to us.
he also not great defender but underrated. i do remember him going 1-1 vs blake and doing really good job defending him.



GOOOOO CLIPPERS!

Mmmmm....

well rules wont change and dj prob wont start shooting 60% fts so ya

Lol, you missed my point:

http://registerguard.com/rg/sports/32967332-81/hack-a-smith-pays-off-for-spurs.html.csp

Josh Smith was a 49.8% FT shooter last season...

[og15]

You're missing the point I'm trying to make here. I'm saying on average how many minutes will he get. There's 48 minutes at SG. He's getting zero minutes at PG when the team is healthy with Paul and Rivers there.

He's no longer going to play any SF because you have Pierce, Johnson and Smith who can also move the SF, and also Stephenson when he isn't at SG. At SG you already have Redick and Stephenson. Let's make a fake scenario where Redick plays 20 mins and Stephenson plays 20 mins, there's only 8 mins for Jamal.

There is no reasonable way to make everyone happy, and Jamal will be the odd man out on the roster, that's my point. Right now he's the 3rd PG, 3rd SG and 5th SF on the likely rotation.

I knew what point you were trying to make. Sorry but I just don't think its all that relevant. I'm sure Jamal will be more happy getting 8 minutes a game on a playoff team like the Clippers than 35 minutes a game on a lottery team like the Sixers. (If he's hypothetically traded for Jason Thompson)

Minutes will open up one way or another. We know PP will have his minutes capped. Wes is an end of the bench guy anyway. I take your point about our newly acquired (feels weird to say) SF depth, but small ball will open up some minutes. JJ will have his bad shooting nights. We know Austin will fall off at some point. You never know with Lance. Injuries will happen. There will be blowouts. And guys will be need to be rested. Don't worry, if Jamal stays he will get his minutes.

Even if you factor in all those things, you're still at best looking at 12-15 mpg for Jamal, and that's likely stretching it unless someone gets injured for a long period of time. He hasn't played <26.6 mpg since 03-04.

The idea that value increases as time goes in isn't universally true, it is situation dependent. Jamal will get less minutes, there will be rumblings, whether true or not about him being disgruntled, and if you're waiting until the trade deadline, you might end up finding no takers. The reason will be that teams would see you as more desperate then, and your only option might be a 2nd round pick. You could end up with a worst case scenario where you have to waive him so that he can go to a team whose roster has more room for him.

As much as we think everyone is happy as long as they win, it just isn't true, and players want to feel like they were at least a decent contributor to that success. Jamal isn't likely to be happy with sporadic PT that could be 8 minutes, 14 minutes or DNP-CD even.

[madmaxmedia]

Lol, you missed my point:

http://registerguard.com/rg/sports/32967332-81/hack-a-smith-pays-off-for-spurs.html.csp

Josh Smith was a 49.8% FT shooter last season...

So...MASSIVE improvement over DJ!!

[mttwlsn16]

What does Marvin Williams do?

To be honest he left college too soon and til this day he still looks like it

Ya he really should've stayed at UNC at least one more year.

[illastrate]

Anxious to see the different types of lineup this team can trot out. They can go traditional, small ball, all shooters, all defenders, athletic lineup, big lineup. Many options.

[TheNewEra]

Suicide squad

[mkwest]

Suicide squad

It's totally a fitting name on many levels. It would be cool if they embrace the nickname.

[Neddy]

I...I can't believe we have an actual respectable bench now, given how limited our flexibility was. This season can't start soon enough, it's gonna be wild. A+ offseason for sure.

Just some quick thoughts:
Spurs reloaded in a huge way and they sacrificed depth for a star, but that Pop system is proven to make scrubs into good-to-very good role players. I'll only expect greater things when an actual star signs there. The antithesis to the Spurs is athleticism, and I think we have that now more than ever.
The Warriors are still the team to beat, but I don't think they'll pass last years dominance, albeit that'd be hard for any elite team to do, they were just that damn good. Still, I don't see them repeating.
I think we can handle OKC, but that goes out the window if Durant and Westbrook detonate on the league.
I believe we're in the top tier in the WC, and that means a decent gamblers shot at the Finals and the title. Even if we make it there, that one guy who wears 23 will be hell bent on getting his third ring. So...we'll see.

It all depends on defense and team cohesion.

And the guy that sent us home signs with us, ha! Though I don't quite understand why Smith didn't resign with Houston given that they offered him more money, they got to the conference finals, and his friendship with Dwight. What gives?

Plus I agree with the common consensus that Jamal has to go. Like, yesterday. That guy is putrid to watch.

First time posting on this board, I expect to learn a ton of stuff here.

first of all, welcome.

secondly, I believe it does not matter what Houston offered versus what we offered to him. his salary comes from Detroit and whatever us or Houston would pay, would simply be negated from what Detroit owes him. so for Smith to pick us, when he is supposedly a great friend to Howard, tells me even after beating us in second round, Smoove believes we are clearly the better team that can offer him a chance at the ring.

[nickhx2]

yep. unless smith was offered greater than 5.4M, then he would be making exactly that from detroit, minus whatever his current team would be paying him.

also, imo it is quite telling when a player chooses a contender different from the one he was previously on in lieu of more money and closer ties. feels like validation on which team is more fully equipped to take it all. playing with cp3 instead of james harden doesn't hurt, either lol

[The High Cyde]

I appreciate the answers guys, thanks. It seems Smith was a believer even during the playoffs. I'd bet he saw that the Clips would've advanced to the next round with even one or two more role players to ease it up on our starters.

Also, how many minutes do you reckon Smith will play in the playoffs?

[nickhx2]

probably a good 25+. maybe more depending on matchup and cole aldrich's overall contributions throughout the season.

[Lindecision]

I'll respond with something similar I've already said in this thread. What if a Lance-Austin backcourt doesn't work? What if a Lance-Jamal backcourt works and has great chemistry? You obviously keep Jamal at that point. I don't care what the stats say. None of us know how things are going to play out until these guys actually play with each another. I want to see what we have on the court before blindly assuming a Lance-Austin backcourt will work out.

[nickhx2]

ignoring stats is just blindly ignoring logic, but that's your call i suppose.

you don't have to see two players with ball-hogging/dominant skillsets actually play together to know that their styles don't mesh. case in point: jamal and cp3 were awful together because jamal always took cp3's touches and cp3 just stood there like the 5th guy on the totem pole. so what makes you think that jamal and lance has a chance in hell to work?

let's ask some different questions just for the sake of argument:

1. do you think lance and crawford together will all of a sudden make crawford a better defender?
2. what evidence do you have that the #1 ranked offense for two years will improve offensively by putting pairing those ill-fitting guys together?
3. why do you think it's a benefit to the roster to keep 4 guards together whose main shared skill is their ball dominance?
4. lance is at his most effective with the ball and he is less effective off the ball. what benefit do you see in taking away from our most important player off the bench? keep in mind that jamal has never in his life been able to effectively morph into a consistent off the ball player.

even if you think they are some magic concoction together, crawford and lance are a redundancy that don't fit each other. you don't need to see players play together to see that some pieces just don't match.

[Neddy]

ignoring stats is just blindly ignoring logic, but that's your call i suppose.

you don't have to see two players with ball-hogging/dominant skillsets actually play together to know that their styles don't mesh. case in point: jamal and cp3 were awful together because jamal always took cp3's touches and cp3 just stood there like the 5th guy on the totem pole. so what makes you think that jamal and lance has a chance in hell to work?

let's ask some different questions just for the sake of argument:

1. do you think lance and crawford together will all of a sudden make crawford a better defender?
2. what evidence do you have that the #1 ranked offense for two years will improve offensively by putting pairing those ill-fitting guys together?
3. why do you think it's a benefit to the roster to keep 4 guards together whose main shared skill is their ball dominance?
4. lance is at his most effective with the ball and he is less effective off the ball. what benefit do you see in taking away from our most important player off the bench? keep in mind that jamal has never in his life been able to effectively morph into a consistent off the ball player.

even if you think they are some magic concoction together, crawford and lance are a redundancy that don't fit each other. you don't need to see players play together to see that some pieces just don't match.

I think sometimes that people forget that there is only one ball. CP is a very ball dominant PG, thus it takes some of the play making touches away from Blake, but it works out because CP is clearly the better play maker. once the bench gets involved, Jamal is just as ball dominant as CP except it almost always ends up with him taking the shot. Lance is a poor spot up shooter, plain and simple. it really isn't a theoretical physics math we are trying to solve here. Austin can play off the ball. Neither Lance nor Jamal can, at least while happy. I truly hope Jamal and Hamilton can bring us the Birdman and Napier.

[nickhx2]

guess i'm trying to say what neddy said but not as succinctly!