Westbrook is here! How do we make this work?

[clipperlover]

I'm afraid RoCo quite [diplomatically] agrees.



That said, the Clippers have historically suffered from too much passivity back to LobCity and even before. The only guys who STEP UP have been PG and the late, great, dearly departed Reggie Jackson. The rest are content to be "role players" and spend a lot of time watching.

Frankly, the problem is our superstar and "leader," Kawhi Leonard. The Clippers org is flummoxed as to what to do with The Sphinx. A Hall of Fame talent who only shows up and puts it on the line when he absolutely has to. And sometimes, not even then.



Kawhi has a 3-1 choke on his resume too.

People can douche Playoff/Wayoff/Pandemic P all they want [and I do lol] but he gives it all every night, every quarter. That's why Kawhi wanted him and why Kawhi now wanted Russ. Reggie gave it his all but he's simply not good enough. Russ is a HOFer, and even at 34 is instantly the Clippers' 3rd most talented player.

Can Russ play winning basketball? That is the question. Melo couldn't. Wall couldn't, and a dozen other HOFers too.

Stop struggling so much bro. You're reaching now by saying Kawhi has a 3-1 choke on his record.
Kawhi is a two time NBA champion and finals MVP while Doc is a fraud at best.
The Clippers are flummoxed? Who told you that? Lawrence Frank? Or Lue?

Um, actually I ran across the Kawhi thing on the internet from a semi-credible reporter, didn't make it up. And it adds up. He is NO leader. The best and highest-paid player is NO face of the franchise. We're not even going to win 50 games ffs. The Kawhi Era has been a fckn MISERY, man. Without at least a Finals appearance, Ballmer has gambled on The Sphinx and he lost. So he's doubling down.

Do you really think they make the Westbrook move without Kawhi's nod and a wink? He's been passive-agressing his desire for a REAL point guard even after Mann was elevated and he IS in private contact with Russ.

Duh. With Kawhi's option to bail after next year BEFORE Ballmer opens his $2 Billion Intuit Pleasure Dome in 2024? Ballmer has his d**K in his hand after dropping another $2B on his arena? There was no choice.

C'mon. get off my back. I made a lot of money analyzing corporation politics. Believe it or don't. IDGAF. There's no mystery here.

Not struggling at all bruh. Just answering the tiresome blame of Doc Rivers when it was Pandemic P and Kawhi who went AWOL and blew the 3-1 against Denver in the Bubble. Doc took the fall because Ballmer could hardly fire Kawhi and George after trading away the Clippers future for the next decade to get them.

I thought Doc was unfairly blamed but I AGREED with the decision. Ballmer's back was against the wall--as it is now.

Because to return to the present--you should be worrying about PG, not Ty or Lawrence Frank or Westbrook or glorified scrubeenie Terance Mann's PT. PG's stats this year are really up and down. I think the whole thing rides on him. If we get last year's Playoff P, we're gold. If not, it's all over but the scapegoating.

Clippers didn't make the playoffs last year. We lost the 2nd play-in game partly because PG had Covid.

Are we failing to realize that Kawhi tearing his ACL and Zubac getting a knee sprain in Game 5 of the WCF are the primary reasons we didn't make it to the NBA Finals. We also had that ridiculous stretch of playoffs games because of the Covid schedule. The team in 2021 probably still loses to the Bucks, but they were good enough to be there.

If you want to blame Kawhi for a freak injury, feel free. However, Kawhi is a 2 time Finals MVP. He know what it is going to take. Watch out for this team out of the All-Star break. In 2020, they were 6-5 heading into the break and were 7-2 after the break. Then Covid shut everything down. They were peaking at the right time. We have a very favorable stretch of games in front of us. We can take out any team in the West.

We are adding a guy to the roster that has played with 3 of the other guys on this roster. A line-up of Westbrook, Gordon, PG, RoCo and Zubac/Plumlee would be a very solid unit that has some level of experience together (other than Zubac/Plumlee). Let that be one unit and Mann, Powell, Kawhi, Batum and Zu/Plumlee be the other.

Ballmer should have built the new arena in San Diego. Now, he can't build the team organically through the draft. He is going to have to build future teams through spending in order to have the star power to fill it regularly. Maybe he can change the name to the "Westside" Clippers of Los Angeles or the "Los Angeles Clippers of Inglewood" to cater to the locals.

[clipperlover]

Read on Twitter

[Ballings7]

Stop struggling so much bro. You're reaching now by saying Kawhi has a 3-1 choke on his record.
Kawhi is a two time NBA champion and finals MVP while Doc is a fraud at best.
The Clippers are flummoxed? Who told you that? Lawrence Frank? Or Lue?

Um, actually I ran across the Kawhi thing on the internet from a semi-credible reporter, didn't make it up. And it adds up. He is NO leader. The best and highest-paid player is NO face of the franchise. We're not even going to win 50 games ffs. The Kawhi Era has been a fckn MISERY, man. Without at least a Finals appearance, Ballmer has gambled on The Sphinx and he lost. So he's doubling down.

Do you really think they make the Westbrook move without Kawhi's nod and a wink? He's been passive-agressing his desire for a REAL point guard even after Mann was elevated and he IS in private contact with Russ.

Duh. With Kawhi's option to bail after next year BEFORE Ballmer opens his $2 Billion Intuit Pleasure Dome in 2024? Ballmer has his d**K in his hand after dropping another $2B on his arena? There was no choice.

C'mon. get off my back. I made a lot of money analyzing corporation politics. Believe it or don't. IDGAF. There's no mystery here.

Not struggling at all bruh. Just answering the tiresome blame of Doc Rivers when it was Pandemic P and Kawhi who went AWOL and blew the 3-1 against Denver in the Bubble. Doc took the fall because Ballmer could hardly fire Kawhi and George after trading away the Clippers future for the next decade to get them.

I thought Doc was unfairly blamed but I AGREED with the decision. Ballmer's back was against the wall--as it is now.

Because to return to the present--you should be worrying about PG, not Ty or Lawrence Frank or Westbrook or glorified scrubeenie Terance Mann's PT. PG's stats this year are really up and down. I think the whole thing rides on him. If we get last year's Playoff P, we're gold. If not, it's all over but the scapegoating.

Clippers didn't make the playoffs last year. We lost the 2nd play-in game partly because PG had Covid.

Are we failing to realize that Kawhi tearing his ACL and Zubac getting a knee sprain in Game 5 of the WCF are the primary reasons we didn't make it to the NBA Finals. We also had that ridiculous stretch of playoffs games because of the Covid schedule. The team in 2021 probably still loses to the Bucks, but they were good enough to be there.

If you want to blame Kawhi for a freak injury, feel free. However, Kawhi is a 2 time Finals MVP. He know what it is going to take. Watch out for this team out of the All-Star break. In 2020, they were 6-5 heading into the break and were 7-2 after the break. Then Covid shut everything down. They were peaking at the right time. We have a very favorable stretch of games in front of us. We can take out any team in the West.

We are adding a guy to the roster that has played with 3 of the other guys on this roster. A line-up of Westbrook, Gordon, PG, RoCo and Zubac/Plumlee would be a very solid unit that has some level of experience together (other than Zubac/Plumlee). Let that be one unit and Mann, Powell, Kawhi, Batum and Zu/Plumlee be the other.

Ballmer should have built the new arena in San Diego. Now, he can't build the team organically through the draft. He is going to have to build future teams through spending in order to have the star power to fill it regularly. Maybe he can change the name to the "Westside" Clippers of Los Angeles or the "Los Angeles Clippers of Inglewood" to cater to the locals.

Great post. Well said.

There's been some very encouraging runs over the last 3-4 years. I think its going to be the start of another one after thursday.

[esqtvd]

Stop struggling so much bro. You're reaching now by saying Kawhi has a 3-1 choke on his record.
Kawhi is a two time NBA champion and finals MVP while Doc is a fraud at best.
The Clippers are flummoxed? Who told you that? Lawrence Frank? Or Lue?

Um, actually I ran across the Kawhi thing on the internet from a semi-credible reporter, didn't make it up. And it adds up. He is NO leader. The best and highest-paid player is NO face of the franchise. We're not even going to win 50 games ffs. The Kawhi Era has been a fckn MISERY, man. Without at least a Finals appearance, Ballmer has gambled on The Sphinx and he lost. So he's doubling down.

Do you really think they make the Westbrook move without Kawhi's nod and a wink? He's been passive-agressing his desire for a REAL point guard even after Mann was elevated and he IS in private contact with Russ.

Duh. With Kawhi's option to bail after next year BEFORE Ballmer opens his $2 Billion Intuit Pleasure Dome in 2024? Ballmer has his d**K in his hand after dropping another $2B on his arena? There was no choice.

C'mon. get off my back. I made a lot of money analyzing corporation politics. Believe it or don't. IDGAF. There's no mystery here.

Not struggling at all bruh. Just answering the tiresome blame of Doc Rivers when it was Pandemic P and Kawhi who went AWOL and blew the 3-1 against Denver in the Bubble. Doc took the fall because Ballmer could hardly fire Kawhi and George after trading away the Clippers future for the next decade to get them.

I thought Doc was unfairly blamed but I AGREED with the decision. Ballmer's back was against the wall--as it is now.

Because to return to the present--you should be worrying about PG, not Ty or Lawrence Frank or Westbrook or glorified scrubeenie Terance Mann's PT. PG's stats this year are really up and down. I think the whole thing rides on him. If we get last year's Playoff P, we're gold. If not, it's all over but the scapegoating.

Clippers didn't make the playoffs last year. We lost the 2nd play-in game partly because PG had Covid.

Are we failing to realize that Kawhi tearing his ACL and Zubac getting a knee sprain in Game 5 of the WCF are the primary reasons we didn't make it to the NBA Finals. We also had that ridiculous stretch of playoffs games because of the Covid schedule. The team in 2021 probably still loses to the Bucks, but they were good enough to be there.

If you want to blame Kawhi for a freak injury, feel free. However, Kawhi is a 2 time Finals MVP. He know what it is going to take. Watch out for this team out of the All-Star break. In 2020, they were 6-5 heading into the break and were 7-2 after the break. Then Covid shut everything down. They were peaking at the right time. We have a very favorable stretch of games in front of us. We can take out any team in the West.

We are adding a guy to the roster that has played with 3 of the other guys on this roster. A line-up of Westbrook, Gordon, PG, RoCo and Zubac/Plumlee would be a very solid unit that has some level of experience together (other than Zubac/Plumlee). Let that be one unit and Mann, Powell, Kawhi, Batum and Zu/Plumlee be the other.

Ballmer should have built the new arena in San Diego. Now, he can't build the team organically through the draft. He is going to have to build future teams through spending in order to have the star power to fill it regularly. Maybe he can change the name to the "Westside" Clippers of Los Angeles or the "Los Angeles Clippers of Inglewood" to cater to the locals.

Kawhi was on "load management" BEFORE tearing his ACL. And the bit about his lack of leadership holds. He is what he is and isn't what he isn't. That's why I approve of the Westbrook move and why I think he pushed for it. But I still think we sink or swim on PG's performance. Playoff P carried us to the WCF. Pandemic P got his coach fired.

BTW, the Clippers in LA are worth at least a billion more than the Clippers in San Diego or Seattle. They are currently valued at $3.7B, the Suns only $2.3 and the Blazers $2.1.

[clipperlover]

Kawhi was on "load management" BEFORE tearing his ACL. And the bit about his lack of leadership holds. He is what he is and isn't what he isn't. That's why I approve of the Westbrook move and why I think he pushed for it. But I still think we sink or swim on PG's performance. Playoff P carried us to the WCF. Pandemic P got his coach fired.

BTW, the Clippers in LA are worth at least a billion more than the Clippers in San Diego or Seattle. They are currently valued at $3.7B, the Suns only $2.3 and the Blazers $2.1.

Not really. A lot of the games Kawhi missed that season were because of a foot injury in April. He played in 5 back to back games along the way. He played in 52 of 72 games, but was #3 in minutes played. 62 less minutes in 15 less games than Batum. 164 more minutes played than Zubac who played in all 72.

Prior to the foot injury, he missed less games than the prior season over the same # of games played (45). In 2020-2021, he played 45 games in 110 days. In 2019-2020, it took him 127 days to play those same number of games. For comparison purposes, his last healthy season with the Spurs, he played his 1st 45 games in 100 days.

Doc loaded managed him in 2019-2020, but Ty wasn't really load managing Kawhi in 2020-2021 even with a compressed schedule.


San Diego and Las Vegas are rumored to be possible NBA expansion locations. Not seeing San Diego happen now because the L.A. teams will not allow it. However, there has been an outflow of people from L.A. and San Francisco, so the populations and values over the next 10 years could be much different.
https://ktla.com/news/those-leaving-los-angeles-are-now-flocking-to-these-cities-the-most/

[esqtvd]

Kawhi was on "load management" BEFORE tearing his ACL. And the bit about his lack of leadership holds. He is what he is and isn't what he isn't. That's why I approve of the Westbrook move and why I think he pushed for it. But I still think we sink or swim on PG's performance. Playoff P carried us to the WCF. Pandemic P got his coach fired.

BTW, the Clippers in LA are worth at least a billion more than the Clippers in San Diego or Seattle. They are currently valued at $3.7B, the Suns only $2.3 and the Blazers $2.1.

Not really. A lot of the games Kawhi missed that season were because of a foot injury in April. He played in 5 back to back games along the way. He played in 52 of 72 games, but was #3 in minutes played. 62 less minutes in 15 less games than Batum. 164 more minutes played than Zubac who played in all 72.

Prior to the foot injury, he missed less games than the prior season over the same # of games played (45). In 2020-2021, he played 45 games in 110 days. In 2019-2020, it took him 127 days to play those same number of games. For comparison purposes, his last healthy season with the Spurs, he played his 1st 45 games in 100 days.

Doc loaded managed him in 2019-2020, but Ty wasn't really load managing Kawhi in 2020-2021 even with a compressed schedule.


San Diego and Las Vegas are rumored to be possible NBA expansion locations. Not seeing San Diego happen now because the L.A. teams will not allow it. However, there has been an outflow of people from L.A. and San Francisco, so the populations and values over the next 10 years could be much different.
https://ktla.com/news/those-leaving-los-angeles-are-now-flocking-to-these-cities-the-most/

I'm not "blaming" Kawhi for his injuries, but he's played a lower % of his team's games than Anthony Davis. And I think that talk has driven him to get out on the court more than he'd like.

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/latest-news/paul-pierce-doesnt-understand-why-kawhi-leonard-is-not-getting-criticized-the-same-way-as-anthony-davis-for-missing-games

And the fact remains that moving out of LA would immediately cost Ballmer a billion dollars on paper. Greater Los Angeles has a population of almost 20 million and Vegas [3M] or anywhere else is not going to catch up in Ballmer's lifetime.

[MartinToVaught]

Ballmer should have built the new arena in San Diego. Now, he can't build the team organically through the draft.

I hope Ballmer doesn't think that way, or else we'll never win anything unless he changes his mind. Trying to build a team on the fly by throwing money at aging stars has given us one WCF appearance and not much else. Punting on drafting and development because "we're in LA, we need stars" is not a strategy.

The teams that win in this league generally have at least one cornerstone from the draft who grew with the franchise and set the tone. LeBron in Cleveland, Duncan in San Antonio, Curry in the Bay, Giannis in Milwaukee, etc. We've never had that. The closest we've had was Blake and he wasn't quite on that level. Right now we're like the Chiefs when they used to trade for other teams' veteran backup QBs every few years. Eventually we're going to need to find our Mahomes.

[madmaxmedia]

So this was kinda interesting:

Read on Twitter

TLDR- There are 50 players in the NBA who average at least 10 drives per game, both RW and PG are in that group.

RW- 2nd highest assist percentage in the group
PG- Worst turnover percentage in the group

I'm just crossing my fingers and hoping for the best...

[madmaxmedia]

There's literally no point to speculate on Ballmer moving anywhere, unless he wants to make $1B+ go up in smoke. That's why all the talk about moving to Seattle was nonsense. I don't think the location of his team would significantly affect roster decisions anyway.

At the time he bought the Clippers, $2B seemed like an overpay (if not dramatically so). Not any more...

[clipperlover]

Ballmer should have built the new arena in San Diego. Now, he can't build the team organically through the draft.

I hope Ballmer doesn't think that way, or else we'll never win anything unless he changes his mind. Trying to build a team on the fly by throwing money at aging stars has given us one WCF appearance and not much else. Punting on drafting and development because "we're in LA, we need stars" is not a strategy.

The teams that win in this league generally have at least one cornerstone from the draft who grew with the franchise and set the tone. LeBron in Cleveland, Duncan in San Antonio, Curry in the Bay, Giannis in Milwaukee, etc. We've never had that. The closest we've had was Blake and he wasn't quite on that level. Right now we're like the Chiefs when they used to trade for other teams' veteran backup QBs every few years. Eventually we're going to need to find our Mahomes.

Not saying I agree with that approach, but Ballmer will have an arena to fill. He has to start getting return on investment. He has to have a team getting deep in the playoffs each year. He has PSLs and Luxury boxes to sell.

Maybe being out by the airport will make it easier to get to a game (on time) for those people West of Crenshaw Blvd and South of the 10 (especially during the week). Maybe Ballmer is banking on the Rams or Chargers being at home every Sunday from Oct to Jan, so he can tap into visiting fans from the opponents.

[nickhx2]

So this was kinda interesting:

Read on Twitter

TLDR- There are 50 players in the NBA who average at least 10 drives per game, both RW and PG are in that group.

RW- 2nd highest assist percentage in the group
PG- Worst turnover percentage in the group

I'm just crossing my fingers and hoping for the best...

RE: PG

I KNEW THIS MFER WAS NEAR TOPS lol

[nickhx2]

There's literally no point to speculate on Ballmer moving anywhere, unless he wants to make $1B+ go up in smoke. That's why all the talk about moving to Seattle was nonsense. I don't think the location of his team would significantly affect roster decisions anyway.

At the time he bought the Clippers, $2B seemed like an overpay (if not dramatically so). Not any more...

the thread a long time ago here when ballmer first bought the clips is pretty entertaining. you had a few guys who were very sure ballmer was moving to seattle, in spite of all logic and evidence.

of course, people making arguments in spite of all logic and evidence is a daily occurrence on this forum, this board, and everywhere else in the world!

[nickhx2]

also, i think joey makes some good points and all we can do is fans is to wait and see if those points can effect positive changes in his play and for the team.

i'm typically a believer in the idea that you tend to get what you deserve. westbrook, for years, has not just been condescending, arrogant, and disrespectful to anyone who has questioned his play, but also oblivious/ignorant to his own flaws. that said, a lot of the media (and espn in particular) seemed to take great delight in toying with him, perhaps just wanting to get back at him for how he treated people in the past. and i do think maybe the past couple years it went overboard, so much so that i could only sympathize for this player, one whom i've had great disdain for over the years. he went from being an unbelievable dynamo to being unwanted everywhere he went (even if much of it was deserved). that can't really put you in a happy place, ever, and being in that place can make it extremely difficult for many people to find the level where they can thrive. and i certainly think westbrook has been miles and miles away from his comfort zone for several years.

i could talk about the negatives all day, even though i did say i was tired of it. and honestly i think i'm more tired of all this "wElL if hE jUsT sToPS SHooTinG aNd fOcUseS oN deFENse" qualification/justification stuff that EVERYONE is doing because we all know he's supremely flawed. but what i DO think is something we can feel GOOD and positive about is the idea that finally being wanted again might put him back in a mode where he's more willing to listen, more willing to put aside his ego, and most of all, just play from a good place in his head. i mean seriously, if he actually plays consistently good defense, actually stops taking horrible shots, plays more carefully with the ball in his hands, and generally fills the need we are asking him to fill, then i'll be absolutely shocked. but if he just is kinda who he is, except his strengths are strengthened because he's playing from a place of joy again, that is far more likely, and might be enough to help us moving forward - all of which i could accept as a fan.

we all saw how reggie was basically destitute in wanting to play again and how much it changed him just being told "hey, we need you!" - and i think the same might happen for westbrook. and in the end, that is a potential pro i can live with and say, yeah ok, that seems exciting, let's see how he does.

[madmaxmedia]

but if he just is kinda who he is, except his strengths are strengthened because he's playing from a place of joy again, that is far more likely, and might be enough to help us moving forward - all of which i could accept as a fan.

we all saw how reggie was basically destitute in wanting to play again and how much it changed him just being told "hey, we need you!" - and i think the same might happen for westbrook. and in the end, that is a potential pro i can live with and say, yeah ok, that seems exciting, let's see how he does.

Yes I think that is what we can hope for, to expect him to do a 180 in his game is unrealistic.

When our players are having fun they are generally fun to watch, hopefully Russ too more or less...

[KL2]

Read on Twitter

[clipperlover]

Official:

Read on Twitter

[nickhx2]

if we get some puff pieces soon about how jerry was integral in the process or how the FO/lue/kawhi (sorry, paul george you can eff off) defined a sensible role and vision to which he agreed then i'll find this overall more palatable

[nickhx2]

but if he just is kinda who he is, except his strengths are strengthened because he's playing from a place of joy again, that is far more likely, and might be enough to help us moving forward - all of which i could accept as a fan.

we all saw how reggie was basically destitute in wanting to play again and how much it changed him just being told "hey, we need you!" - and i think the same might happen for westbrook. and in the end, that is a potential pro i can live with and say, yeah ok, that seems exciting, let's see how he does.

Yes I think that is what we can hope for, to expect him to do a 180 in his game is unrealistic.

When our players are having fun they are generally fun to watch, hopefully Russ too more or less...

let's hope our shared vision of psycho goreman comes true, since the signing is now complete

(saw it last weekend, btw, was awesome)

[nickhx2]

if we get some puff pieces soon about how jerry was integral in the process or how the FO/lue/kawhi (sorry, paul george you can eff off) defined a sensible role and vision to which he agreed then i'll find this overall more palatable

also acceptable:

a war room decision in which the clippers declined a trade for kyrie irving because they preferred to go this route instead.

[MartinToVaught]

For Lue I see the appeal. If we didn't sign him, he'd have an excuse of not having a traditional point guard/playmaker. Now he has the excuse that Westbrook was a horrible fit and was brought on because the players wanted him. He at least must have learned that from Doc.

I'm not sure it'll work out as well for Lue. Doc was able to get away with most of his excuses because he was also the GM and president of basketball operations. If this Westbrook experiment fails, Frank can say it wasn't his fault and blame Lue because everyone knows he also wanted Russ.

Read on Twitter

Translation: "If this doesn't work out, it's Lue's fault."