Around the NBA II

[Quake Griffin]

Mike Budenholzer didn't work as coach/GM. Demoted. Then part ways.
SVG didn't work as coach/GM. Parted ways.

Clippers? Give Doc an extension.

[MartinToVaught]

And you all spent months laughing at the Pistons after the Blake trade. They're about to get a better coach than us now. And just watch as they somehow keep their pick this year too, since the Clippers can never have nice things.

[Dynamix]

Spamming every thread with Doc hate is starting to get really old. What exactly is the point, other than it being your calling card? It's not like our owner and front office hang out here and will suddenly see the light. All you're doing is building a case for some people to ignore you. And just to make it clear, I really wouldn't mind if we moved on from Doc (and throw in Austin and DJ while we're at it).

I never laughed at Detroit, actually rooted for them, because I'll always cheer for Blake. SVG made a desperate move, took on a huge contract, and it didn't pan out right away. There were rumours that Gores talked to him about reducing his role, just like Doc, but SVG refused. So yeah, he was shown the door. Will they end up with a better coach than us? We'll see in about a year.

Since we're throwing fantasy scenarios out there, what if Doc does get canned, but the Pistons still end up keeping their pick? Would it be fair to call it divine retribution for letting him go?

[MartinToVaught]

Spamming every thread with Doc hate is starting to get really old.

I'm not "spamming every thread with Doc hate." I was adding on to Quake's point in the post above mine.

For the record, it's not like there's much else to talk about with the Clippers right now besides the coaching situation. The lottery hasn't even happened yet, let alone the draft, and free agency is still a long way off.

There were rumours that Gores talked to him about reducing his role, just like Doc, but SVG refused.

According to the Pistons, SVG wanted to stay. They just didn't want him back.

Read on Twitter

Unlike the Clippers, the Pistons aren't satisfied with mediocrity.

[esqtvd]

Spamming every thread with Doc hate is starting to get really old. What exactly is the point, other than it being your calling card? It's not like our owner and front office hang out here and will suddenly see the light. All you're doing is building a case for some people to ignore you. And just to make it clear, I really wouldn't mind if we moved on from Doc (and throw in Austin and DJ while we're at it).

the coaching question is settled

[og15]

Mike Budenholzer didn't work as coach/GM. Demoted. Then part ways.
SVG didn't work as coach/GM. Parted ways.

Clippers? Give Doc an extension.

These aren't proper comparisons Quake. Bud left because the Hawks didn't want to win and it was rumored the he was criticized by management for winning a game late in the season. He didn't want to be part of that kind of plan.

SVG left because the Pistons wanted to take away his POBO role and make him coach only and he did not want that.

Doc stayed because he accepted his demotion, and because there was no conflict about wanting to win or not. The details are definitely quite important here.

[og15]

Spamming every thread with Doc hate is starting to get really old.

I'm not "spamming every thread with Doc hate." I was adding on to Quake's point in the post above mine.

For the record, it's not like there's much else to talk about with the Clippers right now besides the coaching situation. The lottery hasn't even happened yet, let alone the draft, and free agency is still a long way off.

There were rumours that Gores talked to him about reducing his role, just like Doc, but SVG refused.

According to the Pistons, SVG wanted to stay. They just didn't want him back.

Read on Twitter

Unlike the Clippers, the Pistons aren't satisfied with mediocrity.

SVG wanted to stay with his dual role is what I've read. Also the Pistons not wanting to tank and wanting to have just enough talent to make the playoffs and maybe compete is exactly why they made the Blake trade and are where they are right now. Don't know if they've truly changed from that, and not sure their contract situation allows for much more than mediocre.

[wco81]

Wait, KD leaving OKC for the Warriors was a despicable act but CP3 leaving for Houston is different?

Houston also beat the Clippers after being down 3-1.

[QRich3]

Wait, KD leaving OKC for the Warriors was a despicable act but CP3 leaving for Houston is different?

Houston also beat the Clippers after being down 3-1.

lol the amount of absurd "comparisons" Warriors fans make up to justify Durant's decision in everyone else's eyes will never cease to amaze me

[wco81]

I'm not justifying anything.

What exactly is the difference?

I guess far fewer people cared about what CP3 did at the time because the Clippers just haven't got the same kind of attention in recent years.

Hell they don't even get the most attention in their own market.

[QRich3]

lol don't get butthurt and start with the 'little brother' comments, most here got thicker skin than that. If you don't want to see the difference I see no point in explaining it to you, but the fact that pretty much no one sees it like that should tell you something. Or you can keep convincing yourself people don't like KD cause he and the Warriors are so popular.

[MartinToVaught]

Mike Budenholzer didn't work as coach/GM. Demoted. Then part ways.
SVG didn't work as coach/GM. Parted ways.

Clippers? Give Doc an extension.

These aren't proper comparisons Quake. Bud left because the Hawks didn't want to win and it was rumored the he was criticized by management for winning a game late in the season. He didn't want to be part of that kind of plan.

SVG left because the Pistons wanted to take away his POBO role and make him coach only and he did not want that.

Doc stayed because he accepted his demotion, and because there was no conflict about wanting to win or not. The details are definitely quite important here.

If we're really being honest, Doc stayed to keep coaching his son.

[wco81]

So you obviously don't have an explanation about the difference.

Because outside of people on RealGM, nobody cares.

Not like NBA fans stopped buying Durant shoes or jerseys because he committed some horrible offense.

[og15]

Mike Budenholzer didn't work as coach/GM. Demoted. Then part ways.
SVG didn't work as coach/GM. Parted ways.

Clippers? Give Doc an extension.

These aren't proper comparisons Quake. Bud left because the Hawks didn't want to win and it was rumored the he was criticized by management for winning a game late in the season. He didn't want to be part of that kind of plan.

SVG left because the Pistons wanted to take away his POBO role and make him coach only and he did not want that.

Doc stayed because he accepted his demotion, and because there was no conflict about wanting to win or not. The details are definitely quite important here.

If we're really being honest, Doc stayed to keep coaching his son.

That could be 100% true

[Quake Griffin]

Mike Budenholzer didn't work as coach/GM. Demoted. Then part ways.
SVG didn't work as coach/GM. Parted ways.

Clippers? Give Doc an extension.

These aren't proper comparisons Quake. Bud left because the Hawks didn't want to win and it was rumored the he was criticized by management for winning a game late in the season. He didn't want to be part of that kind of plan.

SVG left because the Pistons wanted to take away his POBO role and make him coach only and he did not want that.

Doc stayed because he accepted his demotion, and because there was no conflict about wanting to win or not. The details are definitely quite important here.

Disagree.

I can compare anything based on WHERE they are similar. You have every right to point out where they are different. That's why it's called a comparison, not a "Quake points out 3 situations that are carbon copies of each other."

Budenholzer DID in fact accept his demotion like Doc did and it ended up not working out.

The "details" answer different questions than the one that interest me the most.

What championship team/ dynasty/ perennial deep playoff run teams in the history of this league have a coach that has been demoted from the POBO role? I guess we're supposed to be the first???? I really don't know.


edit:
And I've been alright with Doc being demoted in the past. I'm second guessing that as of now.

[Quake Griffin]

Wait, KD leaving OKC for the Warriors was a despicable act.

Yes.

but CP3 leaving for Houston is different?

Yes.

Houston also beat the Clippers after being down 3-1.

2 seasons ago.
A coach ago.
A less mature Harden ago.
A Dwight Howard ago.
A not 73-9 ago.

[QRich3]

So you obviously don't have an explanation about the difference.

Because outside of people on RealGM, nobody cares.

Not like NBA fans stopped buying Durant shoes or jerseys because he committed some horrible offense.

Yeah, so if everyone loves him what's the problem then?

I'm afraid pretty much every basketball fan that knows what he did dislikes him, and the harder he keeps trying to fake it doesn't matter to him, the more they're gonna dislike him. Doubt he's gonna find a way to switch the narrative like Lebron did when he went back to Cleveland either.

You already know this, but let's play your game, people dislike Durant because he didn't go to the Spurs or the Heat or some team he lost to years before, like Paul did, he went to the 73-win team which he had a big part in choking a 3-1 lead to weeks before his decision. The "weeks before" part is very important, but so is that he went to an already all-time-great team that was poised to win multiple championships without him, and single handedly made the league a lot more boring. And then it doesn't help that he keeps getting caught having 12 year old mistakes on social media and generally being an insecure child. If you want to pretend that's the exact same situation as Paul because one thing vaguely coincides, be my guest, but you're gonna have a hard time explaining to yourself why a lot of the Clippers fandom are gonna be rooting hard for the Rockets in a couple of weeks. Maybe it's because of the Lakers lol

[og15]

So you obviously don't have an explanation about the difference.

Because outside of people on RealGM, nobody cares.

Not like NBA fans stopped buying Durant shoes or jerseys because he committed some horrible offense.

Most honest Warrior fans understand exactly why people dislike Durrant's decision and how it differs from other stars changing teams. They have either just accepted it and say "well we're winning who cares", or they ignore it. Then there's a subset of Warrior fans who want to try and make it seem like it's just a run of the mill average every year star movement that's no big deal and no one should be mad.

Here's the difference:
-Durant went to a team that already had 3 stars and by their own admission didn't need him to win, Paul went to a team with just one star and which NEEDED another star to even be a consistent WCF threat, let alone win
-Durant went to the Warriors knowing full well that he was basically guaranteed a finals appearance and essentially a championship barring injury. Paul went to a team that we weren't even certain would make the WCF and is in no way guaranteed a finals let alone a championship
-Durant went to a team that in the previous two seasons had won 65+ games and won a championship and went to the finals, Paul joined a team that the previous two seasons had a first and a second round exit
-Durant joined a team that won the most regular season games in NBA history, Paul joined a 55 or 56 win team

It really should be easy to figure out unless you are trying to deliberately act oblivious. A ton of people outside of RealGM cared, don't be fooled. It was definitely a big deal when I discussed with my high school and college basketball friends. There were some who were already Warrior fans who were happy, but no neutral fan saw it as good, they saw it as unfair and echoed the same sentiments you had on RealGM. That doesn't mean the the mass of casual fans who are jumping on to a new team every year and all the kids who don't care about any of the details and just want to like good teams aren't going to keep buying jerseys and liking Durant, but to think him having continued support means that another mass of people weren't extremely disapproving, that would be naive.

You can even just look at fans on road and other social media outlets, including Durant's own Twitter and his behavior after making the decision. He very aware of the reality of how people feel, so thinking it's some RealGM phenomenon is just ridiculous.

[MartinToVaught]

Wait, KD leaving OKC for the Warriors was a despicable act but CP3 leaving for Houston is different?

Houston also beat the Clippers after being down 3-1.

I don't like either player, so I'm not biased here, but Durant's move was far worse. He joined the 73-win team that beat him in the playoffs and already won a ring without him, instead of having the confidence in his abilities as an MVP in his prime to come back stronger and beat them. He also left a team that was more stacked than any team the Clippers have had in our entire history.

It is by far the weakest and most anti-competitive free agency decision in sports history. Nothing else compares. That's why he keeps making insecure comments to try to defend himself to this day.

[og15]

Mike Budenholzer didn't work as coach/GM. Demoted. Then part ways.
SVG didn't work as coach/GM. Parted ways.

Clippers? Give Doc an extension.

These aren't proper comparisons Quake. Bud left because the Hawks didn't want to win and it was rumored the he was criticized by management for winning a game late in the season. He didn't want to be part of that kind of plan.

SVG left because the Pistons wanted to take away his POBO role and make him coach only and he did not want that.

Doc stayed because he accepted his demotion, and because there was no conflict about wanting to win or not. The details are definitely quite important here.

Disagree.

I can compare anything based on WHERE they are similar. You have every right to point out where they are different. That's why it's called a comparison, not a "Quake points out 3 situations that are carbon copies of each other."

Budenholzer DID in fact accept his demotion like Doc did and it ended up not working out.

The "details" answer different questions than the one that interest me the most.

What championship team/ dynasty/ perennial deep playoff run teams in the history of this league have a coach that has been demoted from the POBO role? I guess we're supposed to be the first???? I really don't know.


edit:
And I've been alright with Doc being demoted in the past. I'm second guessing that as of now.

I didn't say you can't compare it, I just said it's not proper comparison based on the point you seemed to be making. It seemed like you were suggesting the those two teams fired those dual role guys as coaches and the Clippers alternatively extended Doc.

So the comparison you seem to be making, and correct me if I'm wrong is that those teams were smart in moving on from their dual role guys completely and the Clippers are dumb in keeping Doc as coach. The problem I see there is that Bud left because he didn't want to be there, so he wasn't fired, so that was not anything smart by ATL. The second is that unlike Doc, Stan didn't agree with being demoted which led him to be fired, so again different situation because the Pistons wanted him as coach just not as manager, but he didn't want that. The smart part for Detroit was ending that dual role, the Clippers also did that.

If Doc wanted to leave he would be gone, and if Doc disagreed with being demoted, he would be gone. Similarly, if ATL wasn't trying to deliberately tank, Bud would still be there, and if SVG accepted just being a coach, he would likely still be there.

That dual role was not common before. For some reason teams decided to do it more recently and they are mostly realizing that it doesn't work well in the majority of cases. A coach being demoted from that role doesn't have any effect I can think of on the ability of a team to do those things you mentioned.