An early summer 2024 thread

[MartinToVaught]

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If we take PG's side of the story at face value, I don't know how you can draw any conclusion other than that he wanted to leave. Why else would he have moved the goalposts immediately when the Clippers offered him Kawhi's deal?

[KL2]

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Um. With what?

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[jengmann3]

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If we take PG's side of the story at face value, I don't know how you can draw any conclusion other than that he wanted to leave. Why else would he have moved the goalposts immediately when the Clippers offered him Kawhi's deal?

Another thing that's tough about it, is James Harden was a free agent. It seems like with the new CBA Boston is the only team that can just pay everyone crazy money jk. But basically by extending him to 3 yr 150 at all star break, I'm not sure what that says to James harden.

[Clipp312s]

I don't see how we get Brandon Ingram unless a third team is involved and willing to take our expiring contracts.

The Pelicans need a center badly unless they think Yves Missi is their Derek Lively Jr. Maybe a 3-way w/ the Bulls and Vuc? We prob have to give up Bones + Terance Mann though for Bulls to help us.

Just hoping we have one more splashy move like this remaining. Not looking forward to a slightly better than play-in tournament team as it stands.

[Roscoe Sheed]

The clippers should have traded pg at the deadline- they should have known that playing hardball like that would alienate him and that they would lose him for nothing

[esqtvd]

The clippers should have traded pg at the deadline- they should have known that playing hardball like that would alienate him and that they would lose him for nothing

I think that was in the realm of possibility but then they hit that incredible 26-5 streak and were at the top of the Power Rankings. Ballmer's 213 wet dream finally seemed to have come together at the last possible minute but then...

[KL2]

The clippers should have traded pg at the deadline- they should have known that playing hardball like that would alienate him and that they would lose him for nothing

I think they tried. There were certainly enough rumors about it. I’m guessing packages were not good enough considering he could walk. Let him walk for nothing is better than being hamstrung with a crappy return.

It’s always possible they fumbled but I think they were eyeing this reset of sorts. So far I like the way they’re moving forward. We gotta see the finish line though.

[Ksny13]

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If we take PG's side of the story at face value, I don't know how you can draw any conclusion other than that he wanted to leave. Why else would he have moved the goalposts immediately when the Clippers offered him Kawhi's deal?

You need to listen to his entire pod. He was on board to sign the contract they offered but with out the NTC. Balmer kept saying that they wanted him to retire as a Clipper but didn't want to add the NTC.

[esqtvd]

Bill Simmons and Ryan Rusillo talk a bit about the Clippers in Simmon's latest podcast.

Simmons said he'd have pointed out to Ballmer that they don't have picks. But maybe the Clippers think they can go in on a big free agent next summer or the summer after that.

I'm convinced Ballmer is convinced that LAC will continue to be a FA destination and he can still function under the new [brutal] CBA. He's probably right, but the question is how much.

His initial equation holds--he intends all those FRPs he traded for PG [therefore landing Kawhi] will continue to be of low value, in the butt end of the first round where difference-makers are few and far between.

[esqtvd]

It was a fascinating listen. I like the transparency. I wish someone would disrespect me with a 60 million dollars contract lol. Also it's more than Demar DeRozan is getting annually. But I get it, it does sound low. I think the fact that he eventually did get Kawhi's number is interesting. It makes it kinda funny, one minute it's offer me the same as kawhi, then he literally got the same as kawhi. lol. I get his logic it just sounded funny. At the end of the day he got an extra year and 60+ million that he can't ever get back. I think it's ok to say that.

If we look at a lot of the discussion among us as fans, the idea of re-signing him was to re-sign him and then trade him for the best offer possible when he becomes eligible and when it presents itself. We all remember the FO did it with Blake, and he was actually someone that meant something to the franchise, so Paul George and his agent aren't going to be dumb and know he's not anyone special to the Clippers, and who the team won't trade for the best deal possible if it comes and it makes sense for them.

So, yea, considering most of us wanted to sign him and then have him traded for the best deal possible when eligible, if he returned, he would be agreeing to take less money and basically be open to getting sent to a team like Charlotte (just giving an example). There's no way him and his agent were not aware of this reality, and everyone was aiming to do what is best for themselves.

Sounds like the clippers didn’t really want to keep pg- they lowballed him and they also refused to give him the ntc. I actually liked pg in some ways and will always credit him for pushing the team to the wcf in 21. However, I do like the new flexibility the team has with him gone though. I also think Philly will regret the contract they gave him as he is clearly declining- still a very good player, but likely just be a decent starter toward the end of the contract

Philly had no choice in a way either. The window on Embiid is closing and frankly the window on Daryl Morey is closing too, lol. Paul George was the best option out there that wouldn't mortgage the future. The owner, Josh Harris, is unpopular in Philly and just got even more unpopular by buying the Eagles' division rival Washington Commanders, so no doubt he was fine with throwing money at the problem.

@OG--As for PG, yes. To have to sign with Ballmer without a no-trade-clause was a Sword of Damocles, that he could be dumped in NBA Siberia at any time like Blake.

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Fortunately for PG, the only contender who had the cap room to meet his price wanted him. That extra $60M he scored is not chump change and well beyond any reasonable hometown discount--yet still he says he was going to take it. Maybe at one point, but once he hit the open market, when not only an MVP [Embiid] but Dr. J is recruiting you and there's 60 million simoleans thrown in, to me that's a no-brainer. Now at the moment, PG and Morey are the most popular guys in town [except for Dr. J and Bryce Harper of course].

But as for the Clippers, with the core averaging 35 years old in a young man's game, it was a house of cards anyway, so it was time for Ballmer to shuffle the deck. No tears here in Clipper Nation.

[esqtvd]

Get this: Looks like the new CBA is a clusterfk all over. Caleb Martin's people seemed to misunderstand Miami's long-term package, and now he's locked in for FOUR YEARS with the Sixers for $8M a year instead of 5 years @ $13M!!


Miami Heat Were 'Dumbfounded' With Caleb Martin Contract Negotiations

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/miami-heat-were-dumbfounded-with-caleb-martin-contract-negotiations/ar-BB1pwPU0

The Miami Heat lost a major piece of their core this summer after veteran swingman Caleb Martin agreed to join the Philadelphia 76ers. According to NBA insider Barry Jackson, the Heat tried to negotiate with Martin but were left 'dumbfounded' by the decisions made by him and his camp.

"Miami could not make a similar offer after free agency started because it would have involved Martin opting in with much bigger salaries in subsequent years," wrote Jackson. "So Martin turned down 5 years, $65 million from Heat and then a week later settled for what ESPN said is 4 years topping $32M from the 76ers. Martin's rep thought the Heat's offer wasn't good enough, which dumbfounded Heat. This Heat/Martin negotiation last weekend was quite (shall we say) intense, per 2 sources. Martin's camp thought Heat was trying to force him to take what Martin's rep thought was a below market deal and made that clear. Heat thought this was a very good offer (it was) and made that very clear."

Caleb Martin was among the more minor free agents this summer but his shooting and defense on the wing are highly valuable skills in the NBA and they helped the Heat win a lot of games over the past three years.

Martin, 28, emerged as a premier frontcourt player for the Miami Heat. He initially broke out during the 2023 Finals run and went on to average 10.0 points, 4.4 rebounds, and 2.2 assists per game on 43.1% shooting last season. With his deal set to expire this summer, the Heat had been negotiating a new contract with Martin and reportedly made an offer of roughly $13 million per year for the next five years.

Martin would have had to opt into his $7.1 million player option next season to sign the extension but it was a step that he was unwilling to take. Instead, Martin had his agents play hardball with the Heat and when he opted out of his deal it essentially took Miami's $65 million offer off the table.

With nowhere else to turn, Martin had to accept a new deal with the 76ers for $32 million over four years, which is just around $8 million per year. Clearly, Martin made a mistake with his contract decision and it's something he'll have to live with for the next four years.

As for the Heat, while Martin was no star, he was a huge piece of their offense and gave them some much-needed fire-power on the perimeter. With him gone and Jimmy Butler another year older, it's fair to say the Heat will take a step back in the East standings next season.

________________________________

ADD:

According to reports, the Heat front office barely knows how to handle the new CBA and they have yet to make a trade or signing that will move the needle for them. As their core players get older, including Jimmy and Bam, it will get harder and harder for them to keep up with rising levels of competition.

https://fadeawayworld.net/miami-heat-do-not-understand-the-new-cba

I feel like every team should have a cap guy, this simply doesn't make sense that a team is so confused about this and is just stagnant.

If anything, I think Caleb Martin's agent needs a cap guy to explain what a good offer is.

Malpractice suits vs agents are not unheard of, but the problem is that few of them have enough money to pay off the damage they did. 33 million dollars! WTF.

[KL2]

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[MartinToVaught]

The clippers should have traded pg at the deadline- they should have known that playing hardball like that would alienate him and that they would lose him for nothing

If PG had any trade value at all anymore, he probably would have been traded.

[MartinToVaught]

You need to listen to his entire pod. He was on board to sign the contract they offered but with out the NTC. Balmer kept saying that they wanted him to retire as a Clipper but didn't want to add the NTC.

If he actually wanted to be here, he wouldn't have insisted on the NTC. Those are not something you just give away to any half-decent player. Look at how much of a disaster it's been with Beal. That's the kind of demand you make when you don't want to stay, but do want to be able to pretend you tried to stay on your podcast after you leave.

PG also said he wanted to stay in Indiana and OKC minutes before leaving. He has no credibility anyway.

[og15]

You need to listen to his entire pod. He was on board to sign the contract they offered but with out the NTC. Balmer kept saying that they wanted him to retire as a Clipper but didn't want to add the NTC.

If he actually wanted to be here, he wouldn't have insisted on the NTC. Those are not something you just give away to any half-decent player. Look at how much of a disaster it's been with Beal. That's the kind of demand you make when you don't want to stay, but do want to be able to pretend you tried to stay on your podcast after you leave.

PG also said he wanted to stay in Indiana and OKC minutes before leaving. He has no credibility anyway.

Beal was traded after the NTC and was a much worse player. I agree the Clippers shouldn't have given it to him, but I also agree that if I'm him I definitely demand it when you're already telling me to take a discount lol

I'm not sure why we act like players and their agents should be stupid. You yourself would have been the first to sign off on a trade for him on January 15th, yet you're acting like he should have just out himself in a position where he loses guaranteed money AND has no control of here he ends up as an unrestricted FA, that's crazy talk. Let's get back to real life here.

The clippers should have traded pg at the deadline- they should have known that playing hardball like that would alienate him and that they would lose him for nothing

If PG had any trade value at all anymore, he probably would have been traded.

Golden State definitely wanted PG and so did Orlando. The Clippers weren't going to to take a non highly beneficial deal to trade him though.

We don't have to want him back, but we don't have to make up reality either. It's not that serious, he didn't commit a crime lol

Both sides made decisions in their best interests as they should.

[madmaxmedia]

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If we take PG's side of the story at face value, I don't know how you can draw any conclusion other than that he wanted to leave. Why else would he have moved the goalposts immediately when the Clippers offered him Kawhi's deal?

You need to listen to his entire pod. He was on board to sign the contract they offered but with out the NTC. Balmer kept saying that they wanted him to retire as a Clipper but didn't want to add the NTC.

At some point the good hometown feelings evaporate, so it's not hard at all to imagine him originally just wanting Kawhi's deal but then after protracted negotiations deciding, f- it I'm gonna enter free agency and see what is out there.

[MartinToVaught]

Golden State definitely wanted PG

If they really wanted him, they would have included Kuminga and not tried to dump every single one of their bad contracts on us. Their refusal to offer anything of worth in return for PG suggests that they didn't actually value him highly.

and so did Orlando.

Orlando threw money at KCP the minute free agency opened instead of waiting to see what PG did. I don't think they were ever seriously in the running. They were probably just used as leverage by PG's camp to make sure Morey gave him the max.

We don't have to want him back, but we don't have to make up reality either. It's not that serious, he didn't commit a crime lol

Looking at other teams' revealed preferences is not "making up reality." He has no trade value anymore. He makes too many demands and causes too much drama while consistently melting down in the playoffs, he's on the wrong side of 30 and injury-prone. As it turns out, other teams weren't as dumb as we were hoping they were. They all know he's more of a liability than an asset at this stage of his career and that they'd regret trading anything of value for him, so they didn't. The Sixers only paid him because they're desperate and because they could just sign him outright.

[TrueLAfan]

If this is true I think they wanted him to leave lol.

That or they knew he wanted to leave despite what he says. He wanted what Kawhi got plus a no trade clause. When Clippers said no he asked for the max. Negotiations started in October. Thank you Clippers for not caving.

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I actually do think it's a case of the Clippers not wanting him. You have to see both sides of it. I'm a Paul George fan and supported him on our team. He had some great playoff performances. He had just as many shaky ones, so that it balanced out as "good but not great." He missed a third of his games here (127 out of 390). He's 34 years old. There are "hometown discounts" and there is play on the court.

I think a part of the issue in general with PG is that he so clearly *wants* to be regarded as an alpha, top shelf player. (Like Kawhi.) He talks like he is one and he wants people to think of him like that. But he isn't. He's a great player. But he's had too many playoff misfires and failures to lift the team like a top shelf guy to be thought of in that tier. I don't think he was/is worth a max deal.

I also very much think the new CBA is going to bring in what I've been expecting for years--more realistic pricing for really good, but not superstar players. If PG was available 90% of the time, he might be a max guy. He isn't, so he isn't. I think a good comparison is another 34 year old that just signed a deal--DeRozan. I think if both players are at their best, PG is a measurably better player. But how much does the huge difference in availability affect that? Because DeRozan effectively signed for half of what PG did--and there's no way I think Paul George, even at his peak and if he's available as much, has twice the impact of DeMar DeRozan. I think there will be fewer deals like what PG got in the future. There will be a lot more in the $25-35 million range.

Anyway, I get why PG is saying that. I wish him well. I don't hold grudges when there isn't a serious beef, so I'm cool with moving on from PG.

[MartinToVaught]

I think a part of the issue in general with PG is that he so clearly *wants* to be regarded as an alpha, top shelf player. Like Kawhi. He talks like he is one and he wants people to think of him like that.

That's not the impression I get from him at all. PG wants to be paid like an alpha, top shelf player, but he wants to be regarded as an obscure journeyman role player with no expectations to perform when it matters. There's a difference.

If PG craved that alpha role, he'd ironically be a much better player than he is now even if he still isn't good enough for it, because he'd at least play with some aggression and confidence in big games.

If PG was available 90% of the time, he might be a max guy.

He'd be a max guy if he wasn't a consistent no-show in the playoffs and any important game.

[Colbinii]

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If we take PG's side of the story at face value, I don't know how you can draw any conclusion other than that he wanted to leave. Why else would he have moved the goalposts immediately when the Clippers offered him Kawhi's deal?

What do you mean? He said he was willing to take Kawhi's deal at first.