An early summer 2024 thread

[jengmann3]

I know it's more of a flyer but watching the highlights kp, himj alongside Harden is kinda interesting, handling the ball handling responsibilities. He seems like he can really use ball screens and play downhill. So if the team went kpj, jh, kawhi, djj, zu, it would be kinda interesting. It would also mean 40 mil (norm, tmann, pj tucker); would be coming off the bench.

[KL2]

Clippers announce official signing of Harden and Batum. What timing. I guess they think we’ll forget about the Kawhi news.

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[clipsfever]

Anybody have a sketch of how Westbrook gets to Denver?

We buy him out or... Kris Dunn is sign-and-traded for him and we send cash/2nd rounder to Utah and they buy him out, or they get a player they like from the end of Denver's roster in a 3-way trade?

(and then that leaves us w/ zapping PJ, and probably Bones, on the final to-do list - plus filling their roster spots?)

[KL2]

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[Colbinii]

Anybody have a sketch of how Westbrook gets to Denver?

We buy him out or... Kris Dunn is sign-and-traded for him and we send cash/2nd rounder to Utah and they buy him out, or they get a player they like from the end of Denver's roster in a 3-way trade?

(and then that leaves us w/ zapping PJ, and probably Bones, on the final to-do list - plus filling their roster spots?)

Denver has a TPE from the Reggie Jackson trade and Westbrook fits in it.

However, Denver is playing hard-ball. They don't want to pay Westbrook. They want Westbrook bought out by the Clippers and then can pay him the minimum since Denver's ownership is cheap.

[Colbinii]

What are the expectations for Clippers fans on the season? Where do you see the Clippers ranking in the Western Conference Power Rankings? What is the range of expectations this fan base expects?

[KL2]

Only business not taken care of now is Kris Dunn. That was all ready reported at least.

What are the expectations for Clippers fans on the season? Where do you see the Clippers ranking in the Western Conference Power Rankings? What is the range of expectations this fan base expects?

I was feeling good until the Leonard news. I like what they’re building on paper. Leaning into a defensive type team. Younger and more athletic.

But …

You let PG walk and Leonard is still not ready to go after months off. What is the plan to score?

[Ballings7]

Paul Reed off to waste away in Detroit..

Trendon Watford stays with Brooklyn: https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/276621/Trendon-Watford-Signs-$27M-Qualifying-Offer-With-Nets





I don't think they're done yet past the current agreements with named players.

Maybe big forward just gets resolved in pre-season, but, I don't think it'll be that resolved if its someone whose either been in the rotation already, or is expected to be.

DJJ as a undersized PF with of course Batum playing a bigger role situationally, would be the best bet, and in reality in the long-term, I just don't think that'll work out too well against the top 4-5 teams in a playoff series. Batum positionally on defense not a concern, but the rebounding is where its more of a concern.

PF may just have to be the team's main weak point again, in virtually all main categories -- bigger frontcourt player defense, rebounding; limited, spotty offensive output & ability, which is more expected. The former (defense and rebounding being more important as a strength in the least, with the offense being passable from the big forward (aka PF) position at least (which right now it is).

Jerami Grant is a guy who'd be very solid on both ends, and can play some wing as well.. think his salary is too big though.

DJJ was also the SF for Dallas and guards more 1/2/3. PJ Washington was the one playing and guarding 4's, and Grant Williams before that.

At a skinny 6'5 DJJ is even a small SF, so yea, definitely still need a bigger forward on the team (Batum is there but he's older and can only play so many minutes). There should be opportunity to do something like move Mann for a player like that during the season for example.

Bey who TrueLAfan has mentioned is a good option a s a bigger guy, but he would be a signing for the future as he probably isn't playing much this season.

At this point why rush PF situation? wait 2 weeks for the summer league. Check what Kobe Brown cooking. If he's overmatch and it's too easy you know he's ready for rotation. You roll with Batum/Kobe rotation to the season. If he's not takeover games, then you know Kobe is for to trade along with PJ+Russ. Might be another team willing to take Kobe for couple 2nd round picks which could helps you unload PJ.

Would be great if Kobe Brown or Moussa Diabate stepped up enough to be in the rotation.. who knows, but I'm not getting my hopes up too much.

[KL2]

Sorry to those who were hoping the Clippers would grab him.

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[og15]

Paul Reed off to waste away in Detroit..

Trendon Watford stays with Brooklyn: https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/276621/Trendon-Watford-Signs-$27M-Qualifying-Offer-With-Nets





I don't think they're done yet past the current agreements with named players.

Maybe big forward just gets resolved in pre-season, but, I don't think it'll be that resolved if its someone whose either been in the rotation already, or is expected to be.

DJJ as a undersized PF with of course Batum playing a bigger role situationally, would be the best bet, and in reality in the long-term, I just don't think that'll work out too well against the top 4-5 teams in a playoff series. Batum positionally on defense not a concern, but the rebounding is where its more of a concern.

PF may just have to be the team's main weak point again, in virtually all main categories -- bigger frontcourt player defense, rebounding; limited, spotty offensive output & ability, which is more expected. The former (defense and rebounding being more important as a strength in the least, with the offense being passable from the big forward (aka PF) position at least (which right now it is).

Jerami Grant is a guy who'd be very solid on both ends, and can play some wing as well.. think his salary is too big though.

DJJ was also the SF for Dallas and guards more 1/2/3. PJ Washington was the one playing and guarding 4's, and Grant Williams before that.

At a skinny 6'5 DJJ is even a small SF, so yea, definitely still need a bigger forward on the team (Batum is there but he's older and can only play so many minutes). There should be opportunity to do something like move Mann for a player like that during the season for example.

Bey who TrueLAfan has mentioned is a good option a s a bigger guy, but he would be a signing for the future as he probably isn't playing much this season.

At this point why rush PF situation? wait 2 weeks for the summer league. Check what Kobe Brown cooking. If he's overmatch and it's too easy you know he's ready for rotation. You roll with Batum/Kobe rotation to the season. If he's not takeover games, then you know Kobe is for to trade along with PJ+Russ. Might be another team willing to take Kobe for couple 2nd round picks which could helps you unload PJ.

Yea, that's a solid way to address it

[og15]

Sorry to those who were hoping the Clippers would grab him.

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If he regains health and form he will be a real nice bargain for them.

[Bobbymcgee]

For better or worse I just want to see the young guys play. Even if it gets ugly at times, let them figure it out and get better through on the court experience. Hopefully this will be the year we finally start to see that.

[esqtvd]

For better or worse I just want to see the young guys play. Even if it gets ugly at times, let them figure it out and get better through on the court experience. Hopefully this will be the year we finally start to see that.

In the last decade or three, NOT ONE of our "young guys" ever went elsewhere and thrived except for Shai, who was already thriving and was the CENTERPIECE of the PG deal. SRP T-Mann is a solid but middling pro; we fleeced the Lakers of seldom-used Zubac who's just a cut above middling.


Throwing kids who can't swim into the deep end of the pool simply doesn't work. Look at the Pistons and Hornets. The blind leading the blind. And the G-League just dissolved the Ignite, a bunch of high school kids pretending to be pros. What a clusterf**k. Nobody learns anything by playing bad basketball.

And our "kids" [some turning 25 now] got burn last year when we'd go up by 20 or 30 and they'd cough it away in 5 minutes and the starters would have to come back in. We had the worst 3rd string in the league. Rookies with talent make enough mistakes--rookies without much talent get creamed.

And experienced pros are NOT good about being used as Daddy Day Care, especially for kids who lack NBA talent. They have pride, and are there to win every night--just like you hope they will be--and they are not interested in using what's left of their prime as part of some process or experiment to train their replacements.

If developing young talent were just a matter of will, everyone would do it instead of paying broken-down geezers like Paul George $40 million a year.

Hey look, people remember these guys fondly, but they never even won 40 games. And our G-Leaguers don't even belong on the same court with guys like this.



https://www.gq.com/story/darius-miles-quentin-richardson-clippers-knuckleheads-interview

[Bobbymcgee]

For better or worse I just want to see the young guys play. Even if it gets ugly at times, let them figure it out and get better through on the court experience. Hopefully this will be the year we finally start to see that.

In the last decade or three, NOT ONE of our "young guys" ever went elsewhere and thrived except for Shai, who was already thriving and was the CENTERPIECE of the PG deal. SRP T-Mann is a solid but middling pro; we fleeced the Lakers of seldom-used Zubac who's just a cut above middling.


Throwing kids who can't swim into the deep end of the pool simply doesn't work. Look at the Pistons and Hornets. The blind leading the blind. And the G-League just dissolved the Ignite, a bunch of high school kids pretending to be pros. What a clusterf**k. Nobody learns anything by playing bad basketball.

And our "kids" [some turning 25 now] got burn last year when we'd go up by 20 or 30 and they'd cough it away in 5 minutes and the starters would have to come back in. We had the worst 3rd string in the league. Rookies with talent make enough mistakes--rookies without much talent get creamed.

And experienced pros are NOT good about being used as Daddy Day Care, especially for kids who lack NBA talent. They have pride, and are there to win every night--just like you hope they will be--and they are not interested in using what's left of their prime as part of some process or experiment to train their replacements.

If developing young talent were just a matter of will, everyone would do it instead of paying broken-down geezers like Paul George $40 million a year.

Hey look, people remember these guys fondly, but they never even won 40 games. And our G-Leaguers don't even belong on the same court with guys like this.



https://www.gq.com/story/darius-miles-quentin-richardson-clippers-knuckleheads-interview

Derrick Jones Jr. went undrafted in 2016, played an important part in helping the Dallas Mavericks reach the NBA Finals last season, and the Clippers signed him to a three year 30 million dollar deal in 2024. You don't need to be a top 3 pick to be an NBA caliber starter or contributor in the league.

Personally, I don't care what the Clippers vets think anymore. Leonard is always hurt, Harden is old, and Batum is practically retired. The Clippers need to start playing young guys and see if they have another Derrick Jones Jr. type player on their hands. Look at teams like the Miami Heat or the Indiana Pacers, they are not afraid to play their young players alongside their vets, so why should the Clippers be?

[Clemenza]

For better or worse I just want to see the young guys play. Even if it gets ugly at times, let them figure it out and get better through on the court experience. Hopefully this will be the year we finally start to see that.

In the last decade or three, NOT ONE of our "young guys" ever went elsewhere and thrived except for Shai, who was already thriving and was the CENTERPIECE of the PG deal. SRP T-Mann is a solid but middling pro; we fleeced the Lakers of seldom-used Zubac who's just a cut above middling.


Throwing kids who can't swim into the deep end of the pool simply doesn't work. Look at the Pistons and Hornets. The blind leading the blind. And the G-League just dissolved the Ignite, a bunch of high school kids pretending to be pros. What a clusterf**k. Nobody learns anything by playing bad basketball.

And our "kids" [some turning 25 now] got burn last year when we'd go up by 20 or 30 and they'd cough it away in 5 minutes and the starters would have to come back in. We had the worst 3rd string in the league. Rookies with talent make enough mistakes--rookies without much talent get creamed.

And experienced pros are NOT good about being used as Daddy Day Care, especially for kids who lack NBA talent. They have pride, and are there to win every night--just like you hope they will be--and they are not interested in using what's left of their prime as part of some process or experiment to train their replacements.

If developing young talent were just a matter of will, everyone would do it instead of paying broken-down geezers like Paul George $40 million a year.

Hey look, people remember these guys fondly, but they never even won 40 games. And our G-Leaguers don't even belong on the same court with guys like this.



https://www.gq.com/story/darius-miles-quentin-richardson-clippers-knuckleheads-interview

Calm down, come off the soap box, and put the blow horn down. You're well aware that the team is now behind the 8ball and backed into a corner with PG's departure, Kawhi's questionable health, a pick shortage, CBA 2nd apron hell, etc. So your inflated anti-G Leaguer rants will most definitely fall upon deaf ears this season. You're worst nightmare will be coming true. Let's Go!!

[TrueLAfan]

I sure wish we'd gone after Bey. He got exactly the contract I thought he would. It's a great deal for the Wizards.

If I were guessing / betting on Dunn and Westbrook, I'd say their trades are linked. I'm guessing we want to get something tangible for Westbrook, which could be flipped to Utah with cash to get them to take PJ.

[MartinToVaught]

Throwing kids who can't swim into the deep end of the pool simply doesn't work. Look at the Pistons and Hornets. The blind leading the blind.

The Pistons were giving big minutes to 34-year-old Bojan Bogdanovic, 32-year-old Alec Burks, and 28-year-old SImone Fontenecchio to no avail.

The Hornets are an even worse example since they screwed themselves by overpaying for Gordon Hayward, who's 33, and Terry Rozier, who's 30, both of whom had to be salary-dumped, and also gave significant minutes to 35-year-old Ish Smith and 30-year-old Vasilije Micic.

Neither of those teams were fielding rosters of nothing but 19-year-old G-Leaguers like you're pretending they did. They both tried and failed to "win now" by bringing in older players who can't keep up anymore in today's league.

And the G-League just dissolved the Ignite

...because college basketball took away its only reason to exist by introducing NIL.

And experienced pros are NOT good about being used as Daddy Day Care

I couldn't care less what our veterans think. Kawhi is usually on the bench in street clothes and Harden has lost any credibility he once had by quitting on so many teams. We need to start planning for the future beyond them.

[og15]

No one over 22 played more than 1000 minutes on the Pistons, so they are a good example of a team going very young and sucking, but they also have no amazing young talent.

They had Burks and Bogie, but they both played around 900 minutes and 28/43 games respectively, so they couldn't actually have much impact on the teams record or success. Simone played under 500 minutes and less than 20 games.

The Clippers keep their draft pick if they have a better record than the Rockets. If the Clippers have a worse record than the Rockets (or they are both in the lottery and the Clippers move up), then the Clippers get OKC's pick which would be somewhere in the 27-30 range based on last season's outcome.

So the Clippers can't go total "youth movement" trying to develop guys who have no superstar potential and for the most part all the young guys except for their 2nd round picks who none have shown high level ability are who they are. They have to balance being better than Houston and development. It could mean the difference between an 18th pick and the 28th pick, that's a big deal.

Clippers do still need to win this season, it's actually beneficial. But developing talent does not mean you just throw out lineups of all the young players lol.

Developing talent means giving young guys solid consistent roles. Don't know why people seem to think of it as some all or nothing.

[nickhx2]

No one over 22 played more than 1000 minutes on the Pistons, so they are a good example of a team going very young and sucking, but they also have no amazing young talent.

They had Burks and Bogie, but they both played around 900 minutes and 28/43 games respectively, so they couldn't actually have much impact on the teams record or success. Simone played under 500 minutes and less than 20 games.

The Clippers keep their draft pick if they have a better record than the Rockets. If the Clippers have a worse record than the Rockets (or they are both in the lottery and the Clippers move up), then the Clippers get OKC's pick which would be somewhere in the 27-30 range based on last season's outcome.

So the Clippers can't go total "youth movement" trying to develop guys who have no superstar potential and for the most part all the young guys except for their 2nd round picks who none have shown high level ability are who they are. They have to balance being better than Houston and development. It could mean the difference between an 18th pick and the 28th pick, that's a big deal.

Clippers do still need to win this season, it's actually beneficial. But developing talent does not mean you just throw out lineups of all the young players lol.

Developing talent means giving young guys solid consistent roles. Don't know why people seem to think of it as some all or nothing.

i think it's because human beings generally like to simplify and reduce when possible. and to me that means that many people believe that just doing a thing over and over for as much time as possible is all that's necessary.

but that completely ignores how human beings actually function, because nuance becomes entirely erased when we become reductionist, and the brain is nothing if not the literal most complex thing we have going on for us.

structure matters, as does giving time for the brain to imprint the actual effective moves and parse out the bad ones, as does putting people in a position to be challenged to develop any skills (such that they earn it and can feel empowered by their own growth and abilities). but just as all these matter, so does actually giving appropriate (play)time to develop skills, as well as an environment for meaningful progress. balance matters because it captures that human complexity, but i think people are generally really bad (and getting worse) at attempting to find the best answers to most solutions when those best answers are in the middle and require the most effort to seek out.

[esqtvd]

No one over 22 played more than 1000 minutes on the Pistons, so they are a good example of a team going very young and sucking, but they also have no amazing young talent.

They had Burks and Bogie, but they both played around 900 minutes and 28/43 games respectively, so they couldn't actually have much impact on the teams record or success. Simone played under 500 minutes and less than 20 games.

The Clippers keep their draft pick if they have a better record than the Rockets. If the Clippers have a worse record than the Rockets (or they are both in the lottery and the Clippers move up), then the Clippers get OKC's pick which would be somewhere in the 27-30 range based on last season's outcome.

So the Clippers can't go total "youth movement" trying to develop guys who have no superstar potential and for the most part all the young guys except for their 2nd round picks who none have shown high level ability are who they are. They have to balance being better than Houston and development. It could mean the difference between an 18th pick and the 28th pick, that's a big deal.

Clippers do still need to win this season, it's actually beneficial. But developing talent does not mean you just throw out lineups of all the young players lol.

Developing talent means giving young guys solid consistent roles. Don't know why people seem to think of it as some all or nothing.

Thank you. Developing talent is not just a question of will and commitment. And thanks for doing a little homework and setting the record straight about the Pistons' minutes.

Kids gotta earn PT. You just can't hand it to them or the entire team psyche collapses and nobody learns anything. The whole point was the first point--no young Clipper talent went elsewhere and thrived.

Besides the Joker, Jalen Brunson is probably the best late-pick [#33] success story out there but the Mavs enjoyed little of the benefit. He had 2 meh years followed by one ok year then one very good year. Then they lost him as a UFA to the Knicks, where he became an All-Star. And for every Jalen Brunson there are dozens of Sindarius Thornwells.

Now if by "young guys" we mean DJJ or KPJ, sure. They're already slated to join the rotation. They each have 6000 NBA minutes under their belts and have been getting them since they were 19. And let's not forget DJJ ain't so young no more. He's 27 and on his SIXTH NBA team!!