Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas)

[Galloisdaman]

Was that a Rolls? Not to many cars have suicide doors now. I'm really curious about his car lol

[Ranma]

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Kevin Barrios, TheBirdRights.com (11/15/18)

Unfortunately, the Clippers matched his offer for Tyrone Wallace and Kenrich Williams was chosen over Troy Williams.

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With a clear need for additional playmaking and with Wallace only appearing in five games for the Clippers (getting only 5.5 minutes per game in those games), I would hope and expect that Demps is keeping a close eye on that situation. While the Clippers are likely planning to move one of Patrick Beverley or Milos Teodosic to open up more minutes for rookie stud Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Jerry West may also be hoping to keep cheap useful talent like Wallace around. However, a 2nd rounder or two could possibly be enough to entice The Logo into setting him free — afterall, Gilgeous-Alexander is the future for the Clippers.

Wallace fits into any of the three trade exceptions the Pelicans have in their back pockets, allowing them to use 2nds and/or cash to bring Wallace into the nest by waiving Kenrich Williams (and then possibly signing him as a 2-way) or Tim Frazier.

New Orleans Pelicans Should Explore Trade Market for Help at Point Guard

Spoiler:

[Ranma]

I'd love to have Beal in a Clippers uniform, but only if we can trade Gallo and Rome for him. A big 3 of Beal, Tobias and hopefully Kawhi would be great. Unfortunately, the Wizards can and should get more for him and I'm not willing to give up Shai, Tobias or Trezz in a trade package.

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[GeetIt]

Question. Is it possible for the Clippers to max out their salary cap this off season with FAs and then resign Tobias by going over the cap?

[Ranma]

Question. Is it possible for the Clippers to max out their salary cap this off season with FAs and then resign Tobias by going over the cap?

I'm not sure what you mean by "max out", but Tobias Harris would be assigned a cap hold 20% greater than his current salary in order to retain his Bird rights. That cap hold remains until we sign him to a contract extension, which could be more or less, or we rescind his Bird rights in order to clear more salary cap space. If we rescind his Bird rights, the Clippers won't be able to re-sign Harris by going over the cap.

There may be ways to game the system a by agreeing to free-agent deals before actually signing them, but for the most part, the best way to retain Tobias and possibly "max out" our salary cap this off-season by going after 2 max-level free agents would be to trade Danilo Gallinari without taking back salary back.

[GeetIt]

Question. Is it possible for the Clippers to max out their salary cap this off season with FAs and then resign Tobias by going over the cap?

I'm not sure what you mean by "max out", but Tobias Harris would be assigned a cap hold 20% greater than his current salary in order to retain his Bird rights. That cap hold remains until we sign him to a contract extension, which could be more or less, or we rescind his Bird rights in order to clear more salary cap space. If we rescind his Bird rights, the Clippers won't be able to re-sign Harris by going over the cap.

There may be ways to game the system a by agreeing to free-agent deals before actually signing them, but for the most part, the best way to retain Tobias and possibly "max out" our salary cap this off-season by going after 2 max-level free agents would be to trade Danilo Gallinari without taking back salary back.

I do know that a team can not exceed the salary cap if signing a free agent like Kawhi unless they have cap space. So let's say clippers sign Kawhi and Durant and they are right below the salary cap for that season before resigning their current players. Is it possible for the clippers to then resign Tobias to go over the cap and pay the luxury tax? Because if clippers flip it the other way around and resign Tobias, Beverly, etc. before signing FAs they wont have the cap space to sign the likes of Kawhi, Klay, Durant unless a sign and trade is in place. So is there like a deadline to resign current team players before free agency?

[Ranma]

I do know that a team can not exceed the salary cap if signing a free agent like Kawhi unless they have cap space. So let's say clippers sign Kawhi and Durant and they are right below the salary cap for that season before resigning their current players. Is it possible for the clippers to then resign Tobias to go over the cap and pay the luxury tax? Because if clippers flip it the other way around and resign Tobias, Beverly, etc. before signing FAs they wont have the cap space to sign the likes of Kawhi, Klay, Durant unless a sign and trade is in place. So is there like a deadline to resign current team players before free agency?

It depends. Did we have to renounce Tobias Harris (and his cap hold) in order to sign Kawhi and Durant? If so, then no it would be unlikely that we would be able to go over the cap to re-sign Tobias unless he took a mid-level exception or something, which is highly unlikely for him to accept given that he'll be in demand on the open market.

If we somehow retained the Bird rights to Harris while signing both Kawhi and Durant, then yeah, we can go over the the cap and into luxury tax territory in order to re-sign him. The thing is, as it stands right now, we'd have to renounce Tobias and others in order to free enough cap space (about $65 million) to offer close to max-level contracts to both Kawhi and Durant, which presumes that they'd be willing to take a slight discount.

I guess we could theoretically agree to a deal with both Kawhi and Durant while still retaining Tobias's cap hold, then look to dump Gallo's expiring salary for a low draft pick in order to fit all 3 in, but it depends on how much Tobias will demand on the open market and whether or not Kawhi and/or Durant are willing to take a little bit less than the max offers they'd be able to get from other teams.

Also, I'm not sure there's a deadline to renounce a player. The player can choose to wait for the team that holds his Bird rights to make moves or sign with another team offering him a deal he doesn't think his previous team would give him. There are risks involved for a player to do that, especially if other teams are spending their cap space on other players.

[mkwest]

Question. Is it possible for the Clippers to max out their salary cap this off season with FAs and then resign Tobias by going over the cap?

Durant is a 10+ year vet, so he'll command 35% of the cap (~$109M). ~$38.15M

Leonard is at 30%. ~$32.7M

You have to free up around $70.85M if you want them both.



Let's assume we make the playoffs: Draft Pick is conveyed to the Celtics

Renounce: Gortat, Beverley, Marjanovic, Teodosic, Mbah a Moute & Scott
Waive: Thornwell and Wallace
Salary Dump Trades (Take back no 2019 salary): Gallinari, Bradley, Lou Will & Robinson

This would leave us with Harrell and SGA. We'd be able to max both KD and Kawhi. It would also allow us to offer Harris up to 5 years @ ~$120.5M. Harris' contract would start a little over $1M below his cap hold.


SGA
Leonard
Harris
Durant / Motley
Harrell


We would have a $4.7M roop exception ($9.67M/2 Years) and then nothing but minimum contracts.



------------------------------------

It's possible, but extremely complicated and highly unlikely.

[Ranma]

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[Ranma]

Khris Middleton looks like he'd be a good addition to the team on a reasonable salary, but he's not worth a full max contract. At best, he's probably along the lines of Tobias Harris. Having two of those types of players on the Clippers wouldn't be a bad thing unless they are both significantly overpaid.

I'm not at all interested in overpaying Harris or Middleton by a large margin, but I'm certainly open to retaining Tobias and signing Khris along with Kawhi Leonard to deserving contracts. We'd have to trade Gallinari's contract to pull it off but that would be a really nice off-season as we'd get our premier free agent in Kawhi and surround him with two really good complementary stars while biding time and acquiring an asset to pursue Anthony Davis and Giannis Antetokounmpo once they become available.

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Sean Deveney, Sporting News (11/21/18)

Middleton has developed into one of the top two-way wings in the game. He’s averaged 19.3 points, 5.4 rebounds and 4.4 assists this year, making 42.4 percent from the 3-point line. He is ranked sixth in the league with 3.1 3-point makes per game, a career high.

Those are star-quality numbers, and they’re the reason Middleton has max-deal buzz. There will be opportunities to explore — both the Lakers and Clippers, sources say, will have interest in Middleton, and he’ll have options with rebuilding teams such as New York, Dallas and Cleveland. Either way, Middleton will get something around a five-year, $190 million deal from Milwaukee, or a four-year, $140 million contract to sign elsewhere.

The Bucks, a source told Sporting News, are prepared for that reality and prepared to be aggressive when it comes to re-signing Middleton.

Expect the market for Middleton to reflect the market for Warriors guard Klay Thompson, a bigger name with similar skills.

“He is as good a two-way wing as Klay,” one general manager told SN. “Nearly as good a shooter, as good a defender, a better playmaker. You can run things through him more than you can do with Klay. Khris would be as big a star as Klay if he were playing in Golden State, and he’s probably going to get similar money.”

Bucks' Khris Middleton Won't Let Newfound Stardom, Max-Deal Buzz Change Him

[JayClips92]

Thoughts on this trade idea - Avery Bradley for Markelle Fultz?
Clippers take a gamble on a young player while it eats up some cap space for 2019 could pair nicely with Shai in the future
76ers get a proven wing defender and vet to help with there depth and his contract is only partially guaranteed for 2019

[MartinToVaught]

I'd do that just to dump Avery. I'll take Fultz's potential upside over Bradley's known suckitude.

[Wammy Giveaway]

I'd do that just to dump Avery. I'll take Fultz's potential upside over Bradley's known suckitude.

But you're risking taking a draft bust. The last time the Clippers had one, Wesley Johnson, it didn't really pan out. You're basically trading for Michael Olowokandi 2.0.

[DusterBuster]

I'd do that just to dump Avery. I'll take Fultz's potential upside over Bradley's known suckitude.

But you're risking taking a draft bust. The last time the Clippers had one, Wesley Johnson, it didn't really pan out. You're basically trading for Michael Olowokandi 2.0.

Draft busts at least still have a chance to improve their game and become a player. Bradley is what he is and isn't getting any better.

[MartinToVaught]

By the time we got Wes, it was already firmly established that he sucked and probably wasn't going to get much better. Fultz, on the other hand, is a total mystery at this point.

Also, trading Bradley is the only way Doc's going to stop giving him tons of minutes and playing him with Beverley. That alone is worth it, because Doc's favoritism towards Bradley makes it harder for us to win games.

[Ranma]

I was never really sold on Fultz as a #1 overall pick. I projected him to be a solid contributor and quite possibly starter-level player. He had a high floor but low ceiling. I'm even less interested in him now with his issues with the yips and talk of him looking to possibly sue the 76ers and his purported desire for a fresh start to play elsewhere despite the organization pampering him and giving him every opportunity to succeed even as he was not deserving of such favoritism.

I'm more interested in Zhaire Smith and Furkan Korkmaz. Two prospects I've been high on respectively in the 2018 and 2016 drafts.

Korkmaz was always a long-term project with aptitude for shooting from the perimeter and flashes of athleticism. The problem is that he's not physically ready for the NBA game and should have been developed in the G-League. Now he'll be an unrestricted free agent after the season.

Zhaire Smith had supreme athleticism and instinctive basketball IQ but was undersized for the wing position and needed to work on developing his perimeter shot and ball-handling. The problem is that he has a peanut allergy but suffered from a previously undiscovered allergic reaction to sesame seeds. He's lost 20 lbs. as a result of the complications with his health. The Sixers gave up the rights to Mikal Bridges in order to get Smith and Miami's unprotected 2021 first-round pick.

If the Clippers were to trade Avery for Fultz, I'd insist on getting both Smith and Korkmaz as well. I'd like draft-pick compensation likely in the form of a second-rounder if we couldn't re-sign Korkmaz to a long-term deal at low cost in order for him to properly develop in the G-League for at least a couple of years.

We'd also have to clear roster spots in order to pull this off so Milos and maybe Thornwell would have to be packaged in such a deal.

[esqtvd]

I'd do that just to dump Avery. I'll take Fultz's potential upside over Bradley's known suckitude.

But you're risking taking a draft bust. The last time the Clippers had one, Wesley Johnson, it didn't really pan out. You're basically trading for Michael Olowokandi 2.0.

Draft busts at least still have a chance to improve their game and become a player. Bradley is what he is and isn't getting any better.

WeJo was always crap. Bradley is struggling to get back to form after a year of injury. He was 1st-team Defensive 3 years ago and scored 16 ppg 2 years ago and he's only 28 in a couple days. Can't really say what he "is." He's shown flashes.

That said, he's practically untradable until we and a trading partner know what he is. He may find his old self, he might continue to be craptastic. If he finds his old self, Fultz is probably an even trade [although I don't want him at any price], prospect-for-journeyman. And if Avery is only what we've seen so far, he has no trade value at all.

[QRich3]

Fultz' salary would cut into our capspace though, and might put in danger the max free agent plans. Don't think Fultz is worth that with what he's shown so far.

I'm rooting for the kid though, hope he can find himself and end up being the star he was supposed to be.

[TrueLAfan]

Fultz' salary would cut into our capspace though, and might put in danger the max free agent plans. Don't think Fultz is worth that with what he's shown so far.

I'm rooting for the kid though, hope he can find himself and end up being the star he was supposed to be.

Totally agree with this. And totally think we're not the place for him to try and discover his game.

To give the exact numbers--We think of “rookie scale deals” as being low; dude is a #1 pick. He’ll make nearly $10 million next year; more than $12 million the year after that. He may develop into a good player. I have no idea if he’ll ever be a $12-15 million dollar player … and that’s what he’ll be paid in 2020 and 2021. I do know that he’s nowhere near being worth he’s paid, and he’s a long way from getting to that point. And he’s a(nother) guard … seriously, another guard? For us, just no.

[Ranma]

Totally agree with this. And totally think we're not the place for him to try and discover his game.

To give the exact numbers--We think of “rookie scale deals” as being low; dude is a #1 pick. He’ll make nearly $10 million next year; more than $12 million the year after that. He may develop into a good player. I have no idea if he’ll ever be a $12-15 million dollar player … and that’s what he’ll be paid in 2020 and 2021. I do know that he’s nowhere near being worth he’s paid, and he’s a long way from getting to that point. And he’s a(nother) guard … seriously, another guard? For us, just no.

I concur that having Fultz's salary on the books is not worth endangering our salary cap flexibility with regards to pursuing free agents. I neglected to mention in my trade idea that, in addition to obtaining Zhaire Smith and Furkan Korkmaz, Fultz would be redirected to another team possibly in a 3-team deal. Sending him to the Phoenix Suns for a second-round pick seems like a plausible scenario to me.

Adrian Wojnarowski and Bobby Marks expressed doubt in a recent podcast that Fultz would get a first-round pick of any kind at this point, which is quite the precipitous drop in value in such a brief amount of time after going first overall.

If the Sixers hadn't already exercised his club option for 2020-21, Fultz might have been a decent reclamation project in the G-League or maybe even a pet project for Sam Cassell to work on, but given his and his agent's questionable behaviors, I'm not particularly interested in investing in Fultz.

The final result of my proposal would be to send Bradley to Philadelphia and Fultz to Phoenix while the Clippers would receive Smith, Korkmaz and a second-round pick. Another second-rounder would be added if we lose Korkmaz after this season. The Sixers would get to unload a headache and increasingly toxic asset in return for a noted defender for a postseason run in the East. The Suns would take a chance at filling their longstanding void at point guard with the #1 overall selection in last year's draft for the cost of a second-rounder.

The Clippers would free up salary cap space for free agency this upcoming summer and possibly even next while also getting draft considerations in the form of at least one and possibly two future second-round selections along with a recent first-round pick, who could develop into something substantial or, at the very least, be easy to move at an inexpensive salary once he recovers from health complications resulting from a severe allergic reaction.

This would also free up playing time while alleviating some of the glut in the backcourt, but could be viewed as hurting our postseason chances. Maybe we can wait until the off-season to pull the trigger on such a deal but I suspect Fultz will be dealt before that and I'm actually hoping to see more playing time for Jerome Robinson this season even if it's not right away.

I highly doubt Doc would sign off on such a move, but luckily, he's no longer in charge without a front-office title. The question is would Jerry West and Lawrence Frank be interested in doing such a move.

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