Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas)

[esqtvd]

Sixers aren't going to give up on Zhaire Smith just to dump Fultz, or trade anything of value for Avery until he proves he's somewhere near back to his old self [if ever].

[TucsonClip]

Ive been telling you guys for over a year, Fultz needs surgery. This entire fiasco with Philly is getting out of hand. Dude is hurt.

I would absolutely trade for him.

[esqtvd]

Ive been telling you guys for over a year, Fultz needs surgery. This entire fiasco with Philly is getting out of hand. Dude is hurt.

I would absolutely trade for him.

Or it's in his head. In any case, his handlers are not serving him well.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/11/13/18090592/markelle-fultz-jump-shot-history-injury-free-throw

The other thing is, even if it's an injury a) How long will it take to get back to normal? b) Did you ever get your 3-pointer out to NBA range? [Trying to get out to NBA range could have caused the injury in the first place.]

[TucsonClip]

Ive been telling you guys for over a year, Fultz needs surgery. This entire fiasco with Philly is getting out of hand. Dude is hurt.

I would absolutely trade for him.

Or it's in his head. In any case, his handlers are not serving him well.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/11/13/18090592/markelle-fultz-jump-shot-history-injury-free-throw

The other thing is, even if it's an injury a) How long will it take to get back to normal? b) Did you ever get your 3-pointer out to NBA range? [Trying to get out to NBA range could have caused the injury in the first place.]

I have it on very good authority, he needs surgery and it is believed he will return to 100% when he has it.

[esqtvd]

Ive been telling you guys for over a year, Fultz needs surgery. This entire fiasco with Philly is getting out of hand. Dude is hurt.

I would absolutely trade for him.

Or it's in his head. In any case, his handlers are not serving him well.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/11/13/18090592/markelle-fultz-jump-shot-history-injury-free-throw

The other thing is, even if it's an injury a) How long will it take to get back to normal? b) Did you ever get your 3-pointer out to NBA range? [Trying to get out to NBA range could have caused the injury in the first place.]

I have it on very good authority, he needs surgery and it is believed he will return to 100% when he has it.

OK, let's stipulate that.

The other thing is, even if it's an injury a) How long will it take to get back to normal?

He's signed through 2021-22 at a team-friendly average of about $11M a year. Not bad. So, OK, we can wait. But part deux of the equation remains.

b) Did you ever get your 3-pointer out to NBA range? [Trying to get out to NBA range could have caused the injury in the first place.]

I see a lot of Sixers games and leaving the shooting out, he was OK, nothing that really amazed you. He's no DeRozan attacking the hoop and for brute ballhandling and defensive effort, TJ McConnell, the scrub's scrub, was about to take his minutes. He proved in college he's a plus mid-range jump shooter, but that doesn't mean much in 2018. What separates the men from the boys, like most every other guard in the NBA, is whether you can stick the 3. That's a complete unknown re Fultz at the moment, and he may well have hurt himself trying to acquire that skill.

[TucsonClip]

I mean he basically hasnt been able to shoot for an entire year. I dont know the reason he hasnt had surgery ( I dont know the actual injury either, but he needs some form of shoulder surgery), but I was told a lot of what is going on with/around him doesnt really involve him directly, or isnt his fault. That obviously isnt good, but should provide much more hope. This dude is getting killed everywhere you look, and it definitely isnt all his fault (from what I was told).

[esqtvd]

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and then of course there's...

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[Ranma]

I've seen this injury mostly in baseball players, but with apologies for my possible insensitivity, I don't see how this would significantly limit his physical ability to shoot a basketball as oppose to a baseball player throwing a pitch very hard. I know there's some nerve damage that could lead to numbness but my skepticism comes from never seeing it diagnosed in a basketball player before.

Maybe Fultz is doing a service to his fellow basketball players by opening up a new area of study for physical health in the sport, but it comes off as an excuse for his own failings and psychological fragility. At least until I know more about how this particular injury is viewed in relation to basketball activity.

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[Wammy Giveaway]

There are rumors that Markelle Fultz was involved in a motorcycle accident prior to being selected. Found this:

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Players entering the NBA Draft are not allowed to drive motorcycles for fear of injury. From Michael McCaan:

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As another source of intrigue, there remains uncertainty as to the origin of Fultz’s shoulder woes. There has been uncorroborated speculation that Fultz might have suffered the injury in a motorcycle accident that occurred at some point in 2017. If such speculation is true and if the injury occurred after Fultz signed with the 76ers on July 8, 2017, the 76ers would arguably have grounds to suspend Fultz or even void his contract. The NBA’s uniform player contract expressly prohibits players “driving or riding on a motorcycle or moped or four-wheeling/off-roading of any kind” without the written consent of the team. However, a reasonable interpretation of this provision is that if the 76ers previously learned of the cause of Fultz’s injury and decided not to punish him at that time, the team probably waived its chance to do so.

If 76ers knew about this, then they were afraid of losing a trade asset that would lead them into acquiring a superstar. Definitely the team would be receiving damaged goods. This would prompt the NBA into putting a sanction on Philadelphia for covering up the injury. Imagine if Donald Sterling were still the owner of the Clippers; he would do this trade without question. Now it becomes conspiracy.

On the side of Fultz, he's afraid of losing his money. This injury should now force Fultz into disclosing what really happened. If he admits to a motorcycle accident, and the 76ers knew, would the NBA throw the book on Fultz with a year of exile from the league?

[Ranma]

On the side of Fultz, he's afraid of losing his money. This injury should now force Fultz into disclosing what really happened. If he admits to a motorcycle accident, and the 76ers knew, would the NBA throw the book on Fultz with a year of exile from the league?

It's highly doubtful that the NBA would suspend Fultz for life for not fully disclosing how he was injured. That would just set up a lawsuit against the league and the NBA has no particular interest in whether Fultz gets his money or not. The Sixers voiding his contract would be enough, but that assumes that he did suffer a motorcyle accident a la Jay Williams and that the 76ers organization didn't already know about it beforehand.

[Wammy Giveaway]

It's highly doubtful that the NBA would suspend Fultz for life for not fully disclosing how he was injured. That would just set up a lawsuit against the league and the NBA has no particular interest in whether Fultz gets his money or not. The Sixers voiding his contract would be enough, but that assumes that he did suffer a motorcyle accident a la Jay Williams and that the 76ers organization didn't already know about it beforehand.

I originally planned on writing "a year or two of exile" in the text, but I left it vague because I wasn't sure if the NBA would see it as temporary. O.J. Mayo got two years for a drug violation and is now eligible to return. He's currently playing for the Dacin Tigers of Taiwan's Super Basketball League (not that I'm trying to make recruiting pitches for him, but an example of exile not being permanent).

EDIT: So I did write "a year of exile," my bad. I need to learn how to word my thoughts a little better.

[Ranma]

EDIT: So I did write "a year of exile," my bad. I need to learn how to word my thoughts a little better.

Weird. I thought I read "lifetime ban" but my quoting of your post shows otherwise. My apologies.

Even still, I don't see a suspension being warranted.

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[TucsonClip]

I was told surgery is needed. This is not surgery. That said, there is a physical injury and it has been debilitating. I obviously am coming with likely second or third-hand information, but I 100% trust the person who told me.

[Quake Griffin]

I thought most guys get a rib removed to relieve the pressure on their nerve when they have thoracic outlet syndrome?

[esqtvd]

I had a problem in my shoulder whenever I'd shoot, I think it was this
they gave me some exercises and it went away
it's a "syndrome," not a specific muscle or tendon

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it would affect his shooting a bit but I'm not sure this made him made him suck so bad across the board

Fultz is a physiological wonder with unearthly talents, but he's just not much of a basketball player right now. He's bewildered on defense, or lazy, or both. He's skittish on offense, or clueless, or both. Blessed with unbelievable jumping ability, he's Charmin-soft at the rim. He was timid. Toothless. Looking for a place to hide.

Hide him on the bench.

Fultz is a young, weak 20. He was playing in his 18th NBA game, and his 43rd game since high school, and he looked like a scared kid. He is nowhere near ready to contribute to a backcourt on a top-tier team. It's unfair to his teammates. It's unfair to the fans. It's unfair to Fultz himself.

Fultz might have played so badly because he had a touch of Tatum-itis. Tatum torched Sixers again on Tuesday: 23 points, nine rebounds. This time, Fultz was on the court for most of it.

Tatum once agreed that Fultz might be the next James Harden, but that comparison no longer holds. Harden is the most cold-blooded shooter in a league full of gunners and a punishing finisher who invites fouls. On Tuesday, Fultz refused to take wide-open jump shots six times. Worse, he consistently shrank from contact at the rim.

This is grown-folks basketball. You get paid to shoot no matter how ugly your shot is. You get paid to get hit at the rim no matter how much it might hurt, and no matter how weird your free-throw motion might be.

Brown was right. This was painful. Painful to watch.

http://www2.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/markelle-fultz-sixers-76ers-celtics-shot-brett-brown-nba-20181017.html

[esqtvd]

[TucsonClip]

The article and image (while pretty funny), are exactly what ive been talking about. The 76ers have done Fultz no favors, and have not really backed him up despite all this "misinformation" (not my words). Many around him believe he needs surgery, and still do.

[esqtvd]

The article and image (while pretty funny), are exactly what ive been talking about. The 76ers have done Fultz no favors, and have not really backed him up despite all this "misinformation" (not my words). Many around him believe he needs surgery, and still do.

The current diagnosis does not indicate surgery yet. And the fact is that Fultz played meh even outside his shooting. Undrafted TJ O'Connell--who can't shoot either--was about to take his minutes.

And if his shoulder IS messed up, I'll bet he did it trying to extend his jumper out to the NBA 3-point line. If so, I bet he still can't shoot it, which makes him suspect even if/when healthy.


BTW, the article was by Marcus Hayes, a longtime Philly sportwriter, not just some blogger. As you know, I see a lot of Sixers games, and Hayes was much harder on Fultz than I ever was.

Point guard Kyrie Irving dared him to shoot a three just past 2 minutes into the game, and Tatum dared him later. Celtics center Aaron Baynes dared him twice to shoot from 17 feet; no dice. He was a nonfactor without the ball. Terry Rozier left Fultz open on the wing twice in the first half to make defensive plays 25 feet away.

He went to the rim 2 minutes into the game and missed a bunny. At the beginning of his ruinous third-quarter cameo, Fultz gave up a chance to score or be fouled against Gordon Hayward. Hayward promptly drove hard to the rim at the other end and drew a foul. After a few decent moments in the first half, Fultz spoiled whatever good feeling he'd produced. He was disinterested, disengaged and more than a little confused. He did not play in the fourth quarter.

[TucsonClip]

The article and image (while pretty funny), are exactly what ive been talking about. The 76ers have done Fultz no favors, and have not really backed him up despite all this "misinformation" (not my words). Many around him believe he needs surgery, and still do.

The current diagnosis does not indicate surgery yet. And the fact is that Fultz played meh even outside his shooting. Undrafted TJ O'Connell--who can't shoot either--was about to take his minutes.

And if his shoulder IS messed up, I'll bet he did it trying to extend his jumper out to the NBA 3-point line. If so, I bet he still can't shoot it, which makes him suspect even if/when healthy.


BTW, the article was by Marcus Hayes, a longtime Philly sportwriter, not just some blogger. As you know, I see a lot of Sixers games, and Hayes was much harder on Fultz than I ever was.

Point guard Kyrie Irving dared him to shoot a three just past 2 minutes into the game, and Tatum dared him later. Celtics center Aaron Baynes dared him twice to shoot from 17 feet; no dice. He was a nonfactor without the ball. Terry Rozier left Fultz open on the wing twice in the first half to make defensive plays 25 feet away.

He went to the rim 2 minutes into the game and missed a bunny. At the beginning of his ruinous third-quarter cameo, Fultz gave up a chance to score or be fouled against Gordon Hayward. Hayward promptly drove hard to the rim at the other end and drew a foul. After a few decent moments in the first half, Fultz spoiled whatever good feeling he'd produced. He was disinterested, disengaged and more than a little confused. He did not play in the fourth quarter.

I do not know how the issue arose with his nerve injury. That said, it has been well known around his camp, and other places, since last year (also when I was posting that here). Many in his camp believed he needed surgery, and still does. That said, if this is the exact reason for his nerve issues, surgery is absolutely an option. I personally do not know anyone who has had this procedure, but have heard accounts of having the first rib removed in extreme cases. I am not even sure that is the issue though. However, it is a nerve issue, relating to what, I do not know.

Regarding his shooting, I would bet against him injuring his shoulder trying to "extend" the range on his jumper. He was a solid three point shooter in high school, and made 52 threes at Washington, shooting 41.3%. This isnt some extreme case of a guy desperately trying to extend his range on a broken jump shot.

And the article I referenced from Hayes, along with about 90% of the commentary I have seen today and yesterday on this matter, highlights the issues I have been bringing up. Who you blame for the "misinformation" is another story. However, the narrative has been gobbled up and run with the last 18 months, and its flat out wrong as the basis for this entire issue.

[esqtvd]

Like Sindarius, Fultz was one of those guys who hugged the college 3-pt line, not one of those who ignored it. Whether or not it hurt his shoulder [it hurt mine], he's still not proven he can hit it.

If there’s one thing that could unravel his game as a pro, it would be his shot not translating. It’s not exactly the same species of skepticism as the concern trolling over Ball’s shooting form, but there’s at least some reason to wonder if Fultz will be as lights-out from deep in the NBA. His range doesn’t extend far beyond the college line, and his release is on the slow side. Just as concerning, he shot 64.9 percent on foul shots, which ESPN Insider’s Kevin Pelton pointed out is a slightly better predictor of NBA 3-point shooting ability than college 3-point percentage on its own — and Fultz wasn’t overwhelming enough from 3 (41.3 percent) to make up for the free throws.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-makes-markelle-fultz-an-nba-draft-favorite/

And he did also stink in all the other areas, so sez me and Marcus. I've just seen nothing so far that gives me confidence he'll become a star player, and right now he's a basket case.