An early summer 2024 thread

[Clemenza]

Sure hope a trade can open up a roster spot for Miler.

Brown has done a lot of right things but had a mostly rough night.

Diabate has been active and looks more comfortable. A battle between him and Jones could get interesting.

Jordan Miller has to be on the 15 man roster. He was killing it last season as well. He's also has defense and doesn't need the ball in his hands at all times to be effective. I'm hoping he could end all the "Get Lavine" talk and Coffey or Mann better watch out, their minutes could get snatched away. Moussa outplayed Kobe. A couple good showings and Moussa could maybe be brought back. Cam Christie has good mechanics but will need a year in the G League and weight room. We'll see what Sunday's game looks like before we jump to conclusions

[TucsonClip]

Huge yes on Tyus Jones and then trade for a solid PF.

Wouldn't mind adding in Diallo as well. Athletic, rebounds, gets to the line and finishes at the rim.

[KL2]

I’m iffy about this source. Scrolling through the page it looks like they’ve gotten some stuff right. Some stuff they’re reporting that hasn’t happened yet. Rumors/guessses that others have put up like Precious and Kennard returning to their respective teams.

Anyway, it’s slow so why not. Seems a weird thing to put out there but this is the internet.

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[Ballings7]

Good to hear on Moussa

I would really like to see him get in the rotation a bit next season.. if he develops his three pointer, and gets a polished paint move or two, will be a very nice option at PF

I’m iffy about this source. Scrolling through the page it looks like they’ve gotten some stuff right. Some stuff they’re reporting that hasn’t happened yet. Rumors/guessses that others have put up like Precious and Kennard returning to their respective teams.

Anyway, it’s slow so why not. Seems a weird thing to put out there but this is the internet.

Read on Twitter

Well, Pistons are trying to get vets and salary hunting this offseason, maybe they'll take on PJ Tucker? Gotta spend that cash..

[wakelaunch1]

I wonder if they are trying to do some Harden off the ball lineups with all this interest in point guards. Harden did seem to wear down in games having to take the ball up everytime. PG was terrible at taking the ball up. Mann can do it but didnt seem comfortable doing it. Bones is ok at it but doesnt really start the offense

[esqtvd]

Clippers 41.5 wins?
easy money

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[TrueLAfan]

Of course, I’d like to see Diabate keep improving, which is a possibility (he’s 22, and bigs keep improving a little longer). But as much I wish he could/would be, I didn’t see him as a needle mover. He’s help us because he plays a position where we need reinforcement(s) … but I don’t see him becoming a high rotation player. I’ll wish for it, but my expectations aren’t high.

Same is true with Miller. I really like and respect the way he played last season, and the way he’s approached and performed in summer league. Good for him. But he’ll turn 25 before the break and he's a Jack of all trades guy. Without a standout skill he’s not going to help that much. Esqtvd is right; his realistic goal is to become the new Amir Coffey. And that’s great for him; Coffey got a multi year, multi million dollar deal to be a low bench guy that can hold things down when better players can’t play. That’s a useful player, just not a super valuable one. 13th men can have 10 year careers and have some individual games and circumstances where they have impact. I think Miller’s ceiling is Coffey. Again, not a needle mover.

The Detroit things is interesting. Said it in another thread. I think the goal is to ship P.J. and cash out for nothing, so he can get bought out at the break. That opens us up for a Westbrook trade and, salary wise, for Dunn and maybe Jones.

[KL2]

I can’t believe there’s a chance we might have to waive him.

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[Clemenza]

Of course, I’d like to see Diabate keep improving, which is a possibility (he’s 22, and bigs keep improving a little longer). But as much I wish he could/would be, I didn’t see him as a needle mover. He’s help us because he plays a position where we need reinforcement(s) … but I don’t see him becoming a high rotation player. I’ll wish for it, but my expectations aren’t high.

Same is true with Miller. I really like and respect the way he played last season, and the way he’s approached and performed in summer league. Good for him. But he’ll turn 25 before the break and he's a Jack of all trades guy. Without a standout skill he’s not going to help that much. Esqtvd is right; his realistic goal is to become the new Amir Coffey. And that’s great for him; Coffey got a multi year, multi million dollar deal to be a low bench guy that can hold things down when better players can’t play. That’s a useful player, just not a super valuable one. 13th men can have 10 year careers and have some individual games and circumstances where they have impact. I think Miller’s ceiling is Coffey. Again, not a needle mover.

The Detroit things is interesting. Said it in another thread. I think the goal is to ship P.J. and cash out for nothing, so he can get bought out at the break. That opens us up for a Westbrook trade and, salary wise, for Dunn and maybe Jones.

Diabate has improved a lot, but without a three point or mid range shot I guess he would be a small ball center which Ty Lue likes. Would the Clipps become interested in him all over again is the question since they declined to give him a new deal? If so that would mean Kai Jones is out. We'll see.

Jordan Miller will definitely get compared to Coffey. With Coffey it seems like he got his guaranteed deal and it was mission accomplished-no more improvements needed on his part. We needed some points from him badly against Dallas in the playoffs. Jordan is an older young guy, but he seems to have a chip on his shoulder-hunger games-lunch pale type mentality. And he was the last guy I figured that would do anything from the crop of youngsters that we had. With a heavy load management year for Kawhi incoming(not even sure if he's starting the season healthy), Mann & Coffey hesitancy and coasting on offense, there might be a lane for Jordan and it could more than being the 15th guy on the bench. He seems like a guy who would take advantage if given the opportunity. IMO, I think he brings more to the table overall than Mann, Norm, and Coffey. We'll see though.

[Clemenza]

I can’t believe there’s a chance we might have to waive him.

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He would be perfect on the team if it was a mentor role and accepting some DNP's, but Russ wants to start and have a major role on the team. That still would've been possible if he had a decent jumpshot. How does that work if we wave him? We still pay the $4 million or does say Denver(?) pick that up?

[TrueLAfan]

I can’t believe there’s a chance we might have to waive him.

Read on Twitter

He would be perfect on the team if it was a mentor role and accepting some DNP's, but Russ wants to start and have a major role on the team. That still would've been possible if he had a decent jumpshot. How does that work if we wave him? We still pay the $4 million or does say Denver(?) pick that up?

Pretty sure that if a player is claimed off of waivers, the new team pays his (previous) salary. If he clears waivers without being claimed, his former team is on the hook for his salary, regardless of where he ends up.

[KL2]

How does that work if we wave him? We still pay the $4 million or does say Denver(?) pick that up?

If we waive him then we owe him the money. I doubt anyone would claim him off waivers.

Denver guys seem to think the team hopes we trade him elsewhere, he gets bought out, then sign him to the vet minimum.

So close. So far away.

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[og15]

Of course, I’d like to see Diabate keep improving, which is a possibility (he’s 22, and bigs keep improving a little longer). But as much I wish he could/would be, I didn’t see him as a needle mover. He’s help us because he plays a position where we need reinforcement(s) … but I don’t see him becoming a high rotation player. I’ll wish for it, but my expectations aren’t high.

Same is true with Miller. I really like and respect the way he played last season, and the way he’s approached and performed in summer league. Good for him. But he’ll turn 25 before the break and he's a Jack of all trades guy. Without a standout skill he’s not going to help that much. Esqtvd is right; his realistic goal is to become the new Amir Coffey. And that’s great for him; Coffey got a multi year, multi million dollar deal to be a low bench guy that can hold things down when better players can’t play. That’s a useful player, just not a super valuable one. 13th men can have 10 year careers and have some individual games and circumstances where they have impact. I think Miller’s ceiling is Coffey. Again, not a needle mover.

The Detroit things is interesting. Said it in another thread. I think the goal is to ship P.J. and cash out for nothing, so he can get bought out at the break. That opens us up for a Westbrook trade and, salary wise, for Dunn and maybe Jones.

Diabate has improved a lot, but without a three point or mid range shot I guess he would be a small ball center which Ty Lue likes. Would the Clipps become interested in him all over again is the question since they declined to give him a new deal? If so that would mean Kai Jones is out. We'll see.

Jordan Miller will definitely get compared to Coffey. With Coffey it seems like he got his guaranteed deal and it was mission accomplished-no more improvements needed on his part. We needed some points from him badly against Dallas in the playoffs. Jordan is an older young guy, but he seems to have a chip on his shoulder-hunger games-lunch pale type mentality. And he was the last guy I figured that would do anything from the crop of youngsters that we had. With a heavy load management year for Kawhi incoming(not even sure if he's starting the season healthy), Mann & Coffey hesitancy and coasting on offense, there might be a lane for Jordan and it could more than being the 15th guy on the bench. He seems like a guy who would take advantage if given the opportunity. IMO, I think he brings more to the table overall than Mann, Norm, and Coffey. We'll see though.

To be fair to Coffey, he was 26 (27 now), I think he also simply hit the maximum of his abilities at the NBA level, solid shooter, okay at some complimentary ball handling and passing on the weak side and competes on defense. He can't increase his ability to process on the floor anymore by now, as a 52% 2PT, 37% 3PT and 81% FT NBA player, he's already probably at his max in shooting ability at this level, and the physical tools to create more good shots, be a higher impact defender, any of those things don't seem to be there.

Miller on the other hand might have a higher ceiling at the NBA level, we'll have to see. He's not "young young" for the NBA at 24, but he's not old and 3 years younger than Coffey.

[esqtvd]

How does that work if we wave him? We still pay the $4 million or does say Denver(?) pick that up?

If we waive him then we owe him the money. I doubt anyone would claim him off waivers.

Denver guys seem to think the team hopes we trade him elsewhere, he gets bought out, then sign him to the vet minimum.

So close. So far away.

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FTR--Westbrook is owed $4.03M. If waived and signed as a UFA, the NBA minimum for a 10+ year player is $3.2M, which the new team would pay and the Clips only on the hook for the remainder.

I suppose it's possible the Nugs are playing games over a small amount of money, but it doesn't seem smart to me. If you really want him and he wants you, make the deal and lock it down.

[esqtvd]

Of course, I’d like to see Diabate keep improving, which is a possibility (he’s 22, and bigs keep improving a little longer). But as much I wish he could/would be, I didn’t see him as a needle mover. He’s help us because he plays a position where we need reinforcement(s) … but I don’t see him becoming a high rotation player. I’ll wish for it, but my expectations aren’t high.

Same is true with Miller. I really like and respect the way he played last season, and the way he’s approached and performed in summer league. Good for him. But he’ll turn 25 before the break and he's a Jack of all trades guy. Without a standout skill he’s not going to help that much. Esqtvd is right; his realistic goal is to become the new Amir Coffey. And that’s great for him; Coffey got a multi year, multi million dollar deal to be a low bench guy that can hold things down when better players can’t play. That’s a useful player, just not a super valuable one. 13th men can have 10 year careers and have some individual games and circumstances where they have impact. I think Miller’s ceiling is Coffey. Again, not a needle mover.

The Detroit things is interesting. Said it in another thread. I think the goal is to ship P.J. and cash out for nothing, so he can get bought out at the break. That opens us up for a Westbrook trade and, salary wise, for Dunn and maybe Jones.

Diabate has improved a lot, but without a three point or mid range shot I guess he would be a small ball center which Ty Lue likes. Would the Clipps become interested in him all over again is the question since they declined to give him a new deal? If so that would mean Kai Jones is out. We'll see.

Jordan Miller will definitely get compared to Coffey. With Coffey it seems like he got his guaranteed deal and it was mission accomplished-no more improvements needed on his part. We needed some points from him badly against Dallas in the playoffs. Jordan is an older young guy, but he seems to have a chip on his shoulder-hunger games-lunch pale type mentality. And he was the last guy I figured that would do anything from the crop of youngsters that we had. With a heavy load management year for Kawhi incoming(not even sure if he's starting the season healthy), Mann & Coffey hesitancy and coasting on offense, there might be a lane for Jordan and it could more than being the 15th guy on the bench. He seems like a guy who would take advantage if given the opportunity. IMO, I think he brings more to the table overall than Mann, Norm, and Coffey. We'll see though.

To be fair to Coffey, he was 26 (27 now), I think he also simply hit the maximum of his abilities at the NBA level, solid shooter, okay at some complimentary ball handling and passing on the weak side and competes on defense. He can't increase his ability to process on the floor anymore by now, as a 52% 2PT, 37% 3PT and 81% FT NBA player, he's already probably at his max in shooting ability at this level, and the physical tools to create more good shots, be a higher impact defender, any of those things don't seem to be there.

Miller on the other hand might have a higher ceiling at the NBA level, we'll have to see. He's not "young young" for the NBA at 24, but he's not old and 3 years younger than Coffey.

Also to be fair, Coffey was pretty serviceable until he apparently hit the wall at the ASB under a bigger workload due to injuries.

PRE: 18 mpg 6.6 ppg 56%/45% minus-0.3 per 100
POST: 25 mpg 7 ppg 39%/31% minus-5.9 per 100 [2nd worst on Clippers]

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?PerMode=PerGame&SeasonSegment=Post%20All-Star&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612746&dir=D&sort=PLUS_MINUS

The door is open for Miller but Amir isn't toast yet. No way Coffey should playing 25 mpg but he was decent at under 20 and playing on the second unit, not starting. Miller will also be competing with KPJ, DJJ, Mann, and Powell, who do many of the same things at the 2 and 3.

[KL2]

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[Clemenza]

Of course, I’d like to see Diabate keep improving, which is a possibility (he’s 22, and bigs keep improving a little longer). But as much I wish he could/would be, I didn’t see him as a needle mover. He’s help us because he plays a position where we need reinforcement(s) … but I don’t see him becoming a high rotation player. I’ll wish for it, but my expectations aren’t high.

Same is true with Miller. I really like and respect the way he played last season, and the way he’s approached and performed in summer league. Good for him. But he’ll turn 25 before the break and he's a Jack of all trades guy. Without a standout skill he’s not going to help that much. Esqtvd is right; his realistic goal is to become the new Amir Coffey. And that’s great for him; Coffey got a multi year, multi million dollar deal to be a low bench guy that can hold things down when better players can’t play. That’s a useful player, just not a super valuable one. 13th men can have 10 year careers and have some individual games and circumstances where they have impact. I think Miller’s ceiling is Coffey. Again, not a needle mover.

The Detroit things is interesting. Said it in another thread. I think the goal is to ship P.J. and cash out for nothing, so he can get bought out at the break. That opens us up for a Westbrook trade and, salary wise, for Dunn and maybe Jones.

Diabate has improved a lot, but without a three point or mid range shot I guess he would be a small ball center which Ty Lue likes. Would the Clipps become interested in him all over again is the question since they declined to give him a new deal? If so that would mean Kai Jones is out. We'll see.

Jordan Miller will definitely get compared to Coffey. With Coffey it seems like he got his guaranteed deal and it was mission accomplished-no more improvements needed on his part. We needed some points from him badly against Dallas in the playoffs. Jordan is an older young guy, but he seems to have a chip on his shoulder-hunger games-lunch pale type mentality. And he was the last guy I figured that would do anything from the crop of youngsters that we had. With a heavy load management year for Kawhi incoming(not even sure if he's starting the season healthy), Mann & Coffey hesitancy and coasting on offense, there might be a lane for Jordan and it could more than being the 15th guy on the bench. He seems like a guy who would take advantage if given the opportunity. IMO, I think he brings more to the table overall than Mann, Norm, and Coffey. We'll see though.

To be fair to Coffey, he was 26 (27 now), I think he also simply hit the maximum of his abilities at the NBA level, solid shooter, okay at some complimentary ball handling and passing on the weak side and competes on defense. He can't increase his ability to process on the floor anymore by now, as a 52% 2PT, 37% 3PT and 81% FT NBA player, he's already probably at his max in shooting ability at this level, and the physical tools to create more good shots, be a higher impact defender, any of those things don't seem to be there.

Miller on the other hand might have a higher ceiling at the NBA level, we'll have to see. He's not "young young" for the NBA at 24, but he's not old and 3 years younger than Coffey.

Agreed.. I didn't expect Coffey to turn into an all star player or play way above his level/ceiling. I was simply hoping he'd look for his shot a bit more once Kawhi wasn't returning and ruled out of the playoffs.

[og15]

Diabate has improved a lot, but without a three point or mid range shot I guess he would be a small ball center which Ty Lue likes. Would the Clipps become interested in him all over again is the question since they declined to give him a new deal? If so that would mean Kai Jones is out. We'll see.

Jordan Miller will definitely get compared to Coffey. With Coffey it seems like he got his guaranteed deal and it was mission accomplished-no more improvements needed on his part. We needed some points from him badly against Dallas in the playoffs. Jordan is an older young guy, but he seems to have a chip on his shoulder-hunger games-lunch pale type mentality. And he was the last guy I figured that would do anything from the crop of youngsters that we had. With a heavy load management year for Kawhi incoming(not even sure if he's starting the season healthy), Mann & Coffey hesitancy and coasting on offense, there might be a lane for Jordan and it could more than being the 15th guy on the bench. He seems like a guy who would take advantage if given the opportunity. IMO, I think he brings more to the table overall than Mann, Norm, and Coffey. We'll see though.

To be fair to Coffey, he was 26 (27 now), I think he also simply hit the maximum of his abilities at the NBA level, solid shooter, okay at some complimentary ball handling and passing on the weak side and competes on defense. He can't increase his ability to process on the floor anymore by now, as a 52% 2PT, 37% 3PT and 81% FT NBA player, he's already probably at his max in shooting ability at this level, and the physical tools to create more good shots, be a higher impact defender, any of those things don't seem to be there.

Miller on the other hand might have a higher ceiling at the NBA level, we'll have to see. He's not "young young" for the NBA at 24, but he's not old and 3 years younger than Coffey.

Also to be fair, Coffey was pretty serviceable until he apparently hit the wall at the ASB under a bigger workload due to injuries.

PRE: 18 mpg 6.6 ppg 56%/45% minus-0.3 per 100
POST: 25 mpg 7 ppg 39%/31% minus-5.9 per 100 [2nd worst on Clippers]

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?PerMode=PerGame&SeasonSegment=Post%20All-Star&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612746&dir=D&sort=PLUS_MINUS

The door is open for Miller but Amir isn't toast yet. No way Coffey should playing 25 mpg but he was decent at under 20 and playing on the second unit, not starting. Miller will also be competing with KPJ, DJJ, Mann, and Powell, who do many of the same things at the 2 and 3.

Yea, Coffey is a nice rotation piece to have as an option, but he's not a needle mover, he's a guy that you expect to simply not make any lineups worse, that is, he can fill a role on offense (space, low turnovers, efficient) and on defense (compete, make right rotations).

I don't think he can do more. One area Mann has done well is the he's also not a needle mover, but as a glue guy, he's kept up his offensive efficiency in the post-season. Double digits in 13/19 last playoff games at 28.9 mpg.

Maybe Miller can find a role for himself, but like you said, there is a LOT of competition, maybe if he was like 6'9 life would be easier for him haha

[madmaxmedia]

Diabate has improved a lot, but without a three point or mid range shot I guess he would be a small ball center which Ty Lue likes. Would the Clipps become interested in him all over again is the question since they declined to give him a new deal? If so that would mean Kai Jones is out. We'll see.

Jordan Miller will definitely get compared to Coffey. With Coffey it seems like he got his guaranteed deal and it was mission accomplished-no more improvements needed on his part. We needed some points from him badly against Dallas in the playoffs. Jordan is an older young guy, but he seems to have a chip on his shoulder-hunger games-lunch pale type mentality. And he was the last guy I figured that would do anything from the crop of youngsters that we had. With a heavy load management year for Kawhi incoming(not even sure if he's starting the season healthy), Mann & Coffey hesitancy and coasting on offense, there might be a lane for Jordan and it could more than being the 15th guy on the bench. He seems like a guy who would take advantage if given the opportunity. IMO, I think he brings more to the table overall than Mann, Norm, and Coffey. We'll see though.

To be fair to Coffey, he was 26 (27 now), I think he also simply hit the maximum of his abilities at the NBA level, solid shooter, okay at some complimentary ball handling and passing on the weak side and competes on defense. He can't increase his ability to process on the floor anymore by now, as a 52% 2PT, 37% 3PT and 81% FT NBA player, he's already probably at his max in shooting ability at this level, and the physical tools to create more good shots, be a higher impact defender, any of those things don't seem to be there.

Miller on the other hand might have a higher ceiling at the NBA level, we'll have to see. He's not "young young" for the NBA at 24, but he's not old and 3 years younger than Coffey.

Agreed.. I didn't expect Coffey to turn into an all star player or play way above his level/ceiling. I was simply hoping he'd look for his shot a bit more once Kawhi wasn't returning and ruled out of the playoffs.

I think what we have in Coffey right now is pretty close to his absolute ceiling in the NBA. 3 year college player with extremely average stats, undrafted in the NBA, shuffled between G-League and end of roster for awhile but learned how to play in an NBA rotation. Does not stand out on an NBA floor in any way physically, with at-best average quickness for his size. But 100% earned an $11M contract and probably one more decent contract, I'd say he's done great for himself.

The one thing we always hope for in just about any younger player is to improve their 3-ball, but it's incredibly difficult to shoot the 3-ball against NBA defenses even with a quick stroke (which Coffey does not have.) He was a 33% 3PG shooter in college, so to average 37% in the NBA is an achievement as well. He never had the fundamentals to be a sharpshooter, but has become a decent 3PT shooter.

I was also hoping for further improvements to his game after he got his contract but just like physical attributes, mental attributes get maxed out somewhere as well.

[og15]

Diabate has improved a lot, but without a three point or mid range shot I guess he would be a small ball center which Ty Lue likes. Would the Clipps become interested in him all over again is the question since they declined to give him a new deal? If so that would mean Kai Jones is out. We'll see.

Jordan Miller will definitely get compared to Coffey. With Coffey it seems like he got his guaranteed deal and it was mission accomplished-no more improvements needed on his part. We needed some points from him badly against Dallas in the playoffs. Jordan is an older young guy, but he seems to have a chip on his shoulder-hunger games-lunch pale type mentality. And he was the last guy I figured that would do anything from the crop of youngsters that we had. With a heavy load management year for Kawhi incoming(not even sure if he's starting the season healthy), Mann & Coffey hesitancy and coasting on offense, there might be a lane for Jordan and it could more than being the 15th guy on the bench. He seems like a guy who would take advantage if given the opportunity. IMO, I think he brings more to the table overall than Mann, Norm, and Coffey. We'll see though.

To be fair to Coffey, he was 26 (27 now), I think he also simply hit the maximum of his abilities at the NBA level, solid shooter, okay at some complimentary ball handling and passing on the weak side and competes on defense. He can't increase his ability to process on the floor anymore by now, as a 52% 2PT, 37% 3PT and 81% FT NBA player, he's already probably at his max in shooting ability at this level, and the physical tools to create more good shots, be a higher impact defender, any of those things don't seem to be there.

Miller on the other hand might have a higher ceiling at the NBA level, we'll have to see. He's not "young young" for the NBA at 24, but he's not old and 3 years younger than Coffey.

Agreed.. I didn't expect Coffey to turn into an all star player or play way above his level/ceiling. I was simply hoping he'd look for his shot a bit more once Kawhi wasn't returning and ruled out of the playoffs.

Yea, for sure, though he also didn't get a ton of minutes (understandably), but he was kinda off also, so that didn't help.