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Blake we have for 2 more years but I really feel like Gordon is gone. I think this horrible season [again] will officially make his mind up in leaving and when that happens I think we have 0 chance of keeping Blake.

It all has to do with cap space whenever Gordon and Griffin will be free agents. If they really don't want to be here they will ask for trades. I think that we just need some of our veterans back. This team is a lot better than 1-10 but I think it's more the tough schedule and early injuries.

I wouldn't be... the CBA makes it hard for players to leave... they mostly have to stay 7-8 years at least if they don't want to give up a substantial wad of cash, and neither seems like the sort to try and force their way out.

I'll be quite annoyed really, as a franchise I feel we've done a lot for EJ.

I'll be pretty pissed if EJ goes elsewhere and becomes a 25ppg player. So much potential, but since the rookie year, the steps haven't being as big (or consistent) as we'd all hoped for...

Not sure why we should be concerned about that.
They're still under contract, we could give them the most money and Sterling has shown in the last couple of years that he pays his guys.

clips1386 wrote:I'll be quite annoyed really, as a franchise I feel we've done a lot for EJ.

I'll be pretty pissed if EJ goes elsewhere and becomes a 25ppg player. So much potential, but since the rookie year, the steps haven't being as big (or consistent) as we'd all hoped for...

Not sure what you're talking about here.
Gordon's averaging 23 PPG this season and if there's anything that was holding him back it was having a guy like Baron Davis running the show.
EJ's more like a Brandon Roy type of SG that needs the ball in his hands to be effective and having Davis, who dribbles it till there's hardly any time left on the clock, on his side doesn't really help him to develop his skills.

If we don't get some players to help build around EJ and Blake, I don't care if they both leave. They both work hard and are giving a lot to this organization, and I'd like to see them be successful somewhere else if it's not going to happen on the Clippers. It's not the same case as Elton Brand, where the organization was actually improving and trying to build around him and he still bolted.

mattfish wrote:If we don't get some players to help build around EJ and Blake, I don't care if they both leave. They both work hard and are giving a lot to this organization, and I'd like to see them be successful somewhere else if it's not going to happen on the Clippers. It's not the same case as Elton Brand, where the organization was actually improving and trying to build around him and he still bolted.

The man took more money (not even the most money, which was from the GSW's). I have always thought Clippers fans were too harsh on him. You'd probably do the same thing. The first thing the owners says is "this is a business", it's the same thing the players have drilled into him. As it turns out, he was overpaid (mostly the injuries fault), you can hardly blame him for looking out for himself and his family first. Not like the Clippers would have been a contender with him staying, and certainly not in retrospect.

Reasonable Fan wrote:

mattfish wrote:If we don't get some players to help build around EJ and Blake, I don't care if they both leave. They both work hard and are giving a lot to this organization, and I'd like to see them be successful somewhere else if it's not going to happen on the Clippers. It's not the same case as Elton Brand, where the organization was actually improving and trying to build around him and he still bolted.

The man took more money (not even the most money, which was from the GSW's). I have always thought Clippers fans were too harsh on him. You'd probably do the same thing. The first thing the owners says is "this is a business", it's the same thing the players have drilled into him. As it turns out, he was overpaid (mostly the injuries fault), you can hardly blame him for looking out for himself and his family first. Not like the Clippers would have been a contender with him staying, and certainly not in retrospect.

No one cares that he wanted more money. It's the way he did it, acting as if he wanted to stay and talking about how he'd take less to get Baron here.. Which is the exact opposite of his actions? The man is a weasel who lied his way out of the organization. I don't give a damn what he did for this team. He was a loser before Sammy came to town and took the team on his shoulders, and he's a damn loser in Philly.

As for losing Gordon or Griffin, it won't be that easy. They'll be restricted free agents and we'll have dibs on them before anyone else. They'd have to force a trade if they're unhappy, and as long as they're true to their word Clipper fans will accept it.

We don't know exactly what he said at all, this is just the way it was played out in the press. He didn't need to lie, because the money would have been there for him regardless of whether he said "I'm leaving" or "I love LA" like every other FA does right before they leave. Hearing Clippers fans call him a loser really comes off as sour grapes. Fans should just enjoy the good times he gave them, and respect his right to make a living. It's not like he'd have left if Sterling paid him more.

Reasonable Fan wrote:The man took more money (not even the most money, which was from the GSW's). I have always thought Clippers fans were too harsh on him. You'd probably do the same thing. The first thing the owners says is "this is a business", it's the same thing the players have drilled into him. As it turns out, he was overpaid (mostly the injuries fault), you can hardly blame him for looking out for himself and his family first. Not like the Clippers would have been a contender with him staying, and certainly not in retrospect.

It was not that Brand left, it was how he left that had everyone so angry with him. If he would have just been straight up, we would have been upset, but would have understood his decision. He didn't choose to do that. He chose to lie and hide behind his power trip hungry agent.

Brand is the one that recruited Baron to opt out of his contract and to team up in LA. He told Dunleavy to get him $75M with an ETO and a signed Baron Davis. All of that was settled and agreed upon. Falk didn't like the fact that he wasn't able to exploit the situation, so he ended up driving a wedge between Brand and the franchise. Brand turned off his phone and headed to the east coast. Obviously at that point, Falk wasn't going to legitimately be fair in the negotiations. He already had a vendetta against us from back in the day. EB got in the media giving his spin of the story and assumed that everyone would chalk it up as the Clippers dropping the ball once again and not doing right by their players. Dunleavy then got on the radio as a man on a mission and set the story straight. Brand did not deny one word that Dunleavy said, but he (Brand) did manage to indirectly throw Clipper fans under the bus.

I would have been fine if he just said that he had been with this team for 7 seasons, but was going to take his talents to Philadelphia due to he and his wife both being closer to family/home and to join a Philadelphia 76er team that had a greater chance to win with his addition. Instead, he made up excuse after excuse to explain why he left the Clippers rather than why he wanted to join the 6ers. For a guy that blasted teammates for quitting just a couple months prior, he sure ended up looking hypocritical that summer.

Overall, I don't have any beef or animosity toward him anymore. I'm no longer a fan of his, and now he's just another player to me. I'm very happy to have Blake and we wouldn't have had him if Brand stayed with us. I'm thankful for what he did provide while he was here and the performance he gave in 05-06 is something that I will never forget.

I'm not too concerned about losing Gordon or Griffin. We have Gordon at least 1 more season and Griffin for at least 2 more seasons before they will be up for extensions or re-signed. We will have their bird rights and they will be restricted free-agents provided that aspect of rookie contracts carries over into the next CBA. At that point we'll have them up to 5 more seasons.

Of the 2, I could see Gordon going to Indiana if he ever left the Clippers. He's very proud of his home state and Indiana basketball as a whole. If this organization hasn't turned things around by that time, then he may very well head home.

mkwest wrote:It was not that Brand left, it was how he left that had everyone so angry with him. If he would have just been straight up, we would have been upset, but would have understood his decision. He didn't choose to do that. He chose to lie and hide behind his power trip hungry agent.

That's the way the press played it out... but nobody ever said anything remotely incriminating, it was all just innuendo. It's possible I missed a smoking gun, but I followed the events in the news pretty closely.

Brand is the one that recruited Baron to opt out of his contract and to team up in LA. He told Dunleavy to get him $75M with an ETO and a signed Baron Davis. All of that was settled and agreed upon. Falk didn't like the fact that he wasn't able to exploit the situation, so he ended up driving a wedge between Brand and the franchise. Brand turned off his phone and headed to the east coast. Obviously at that point, Falk wasn't going to legitimately be fair in the negotiations. He already had a vendetta against us from back in the day. EB got in the media giving his spin of the story and assumed that everyone would chalk it up as the Clippers dropping the ball once again and not doing right by their players. Dunleavy then got on the radio as a man on a mission and set the story straight. Brand did not deny one word that Dunleavy said, but he (Brand) did manage to indirectly throw Clipper fans under the bus.

As I said above, I didn't see any concrete evidence he treated you unfairly. I could even understand if he changed his mind about signing for less money, it's almost unheard of for players to take less money. Sterling had a long time to get a deal done, and I'm pretty sure both the other teams were offering more money. At what point does he get to walk away from the negotiations in good faith and say "you've had your chance, I'm moving on to (what I thought would be) a better situation"? Ok, agents are horrible, but that's the business. If he got you Baron Davis, that's something to be grateful for, though the fact both players then fell off means you only ended up half as badly strapped with contracts as it could have been.

I would have been fine if he just said that he had been with this team for 7 seasons, but was going to take his talents to Philadelphia due to he and his wife both being closer to family/home and to join a Philadelphia 76er team that had a greater chance to win with his addition. Instead, he made up excuse after excuse to explain why he left the Clippers rather than why he wanted to join the 6ers. For a guy that blasted teammates for quitting just a couple months prior, he sure ended up looking hypocritical that summer.

Players almost always give the token PR spin about how they "really wanted to stay", I don't think what Brand did was any different. And let's be fair about all of this, are the Clippers famed as this great organisation who looks after their players? I was under the impression they were more in the "former staff sue us because we shortchange them" category. After a while negotiating with Sterling, I'd probably give up and turn my phone off too. Why is it so hard to believe the Clippers FO also screwed up?

Overall, I don't have any beef or animosity toward him anymore. I'm no longer a fan of his, and now he's just another player to me. I'm very happy to have Blake and we wouldn't have had him if Brand stayed with us. I'm thankful for what he did provide while he was here and the performance he gave in 05-06 is something that I will never forget.

Well, I'm glad to hear this. I realise now I'll get no supporters here, but I hope 10 years down the road when this has blown over he can get his jersey retired here.

Reasonable Fan wrote:As I said above, I didn't see any concrete evidence he treated you unfairly. I could even understand if he changed his mind about signing for less money, it's almost unheard of for players to take less money. Sterling had a long time to get a deal done, and I'm pretty sure both the other teams were offering more money. At what point does he get to walk away from the negotiations in good faith and say "you've had your chance, I'm moving on to (what I thought would be) a better situation"? Ok, agents are horrible, but that's the business. If he got you Baron Davis, that's something to be grateful for, though the fact both players then fell off means you only ended up half as badly strapped with contracts as it could have been.

We followed the situation more closely than anybody. The Clippers in fact ended up offering him more money than the 76ers offered him in the end. Did he get that information? Who knows? We weren't able to reach him and Falk didn't really want him here. He is the one that said give me $75M. We offered him everything that he asked for. Brand was in touch with Dunleavy and the players up until Falk got into his ear, which ended up with nobody being able to reach him. Baron, who thought the two were good friends, was absolutely furious at what Brand did to him. He set him up and stabbed him in the back, whether that was his "intention" or not. It was pretty much a Lucy Van Pelt/Charlie Brown situation.

Reasonable Fan wrote:Players almost always give the token PR spin about how they "really wanted to stay", I don't think what Brand did was any different. And let's be fair about all of this, are the Clippers famed as this great organisation who looks after their players? I was under the impression they were more in the "former staff sue us because we shortchange them" category. After a while negotiating with Sterling, I'd probably give up and turn my phone off too. Why is it so hard to believe the Clippers FO also screwed up?

You can look at history all that you want, but the fact is that the organization was going to give Brand everything that he wanted. Falk hated that Brand was going to agree to a 5 year/$75 Million deal. When Falk got involved, he wanted it to be 6 years at the max. Sterling said he would give him the max if he were to play the final year of the contract and show that he wasn't damaged goods. Dunleavy didn't even like nor want Baron, but was willing to put up with him to keep Brand. Brand ending up reneging on the deal period. Dunleavy had the texts to prove the agreement made between he and Brand. You can throw the history of the organization up, but it's really irrelevant in this discussion and has no bearing or what actually happened. That's what Brand wanted the public to be influenced by after he went to Philly. He would have then been able to leave and keep his good guy image. The plan just backfired when the truth came out. Sure the reputation of the management precedes itself, but this isn't the 80's or the 90's. It is definitely not perfect, but things have greatly improved.

Well, if he didn't get that information, it's not his fault for turning it down. Plus, he talked about the "Philly max", as in them offering the most they could pay, whereas the Clippers (last he heard from them) weren't even offering that, and both were offering below the GSW'ers.

Brand gave his version, Dunleavy gave his version, and that was it. As I say, I could have missed something in the news, but I don't remember any smoking gun or evidence beyond innuendo, and most of it could have been attributed to Falk getting sick of negotiating with Sterling and deciding it was time to move on. Feel free to slam Falk, but I don't see any reason to blame Brand any more than another FA that leaves. Everyone's going to cover their ass, and we don't have any real evidence of what actually happened. I certainly don't believe Sterling would pay Brand "whatever he wanted", since he didn't do so in 2003 the last time Brand was a FA, he paid the most other teams could offer, and that was a healthier and younger Brand.

Reasonable Fan wrote:Well, if he didn't get that information, it's not his fault for turning it down. Plus, he talked about the "Philly max", as in them offering the most they could pay, whereas the Clippers (last he heard from them) weren't even offering that, and both were offering below the GSW'ers.

Brand gave his version, Dunleavy gave his version, and that was it. As I say, I could have missed something in the news, but I don't remember any smoking gun or evidence beyond innuendo, and most of it could have been attributed to Falk getting sick of negotiating with Sterling and deciding it was time to move on. Feel free to slam Falk, but I don't see any reason to blame Brand any more than another FA that leaves. Everyone's going to cover their ass, and we don't have any real evidence of what actually happened. I certainly don't believe Sterling would pay Brand "whatever he wanted", since he didn't do so in 2003 the last time Brand was a FA, he paid the most other teams could offer, and that was a healthier and younger Brand.

To my knowledge Golden State actually offered the most. We ended up offering more than the 76ers. Did he get that final offer? Not really sure, because Falk was the one making the decision at that point and Brand was nowhere to be found. Brand said himself that his agent hadn't agreed to a deal. Prior to him going AWOL, he was in contact with the organization and his teammates (e.g. Cuttino Mobley) stating how excited he was about the prospects of Baron joining the Clippers. Then all of a sudden nothing. Falk had issues with the Clippers in the past due to us taking Olowokandi over Bibby. The guy is known to be vindictive. After being feared when he represented Jordan back in the days, he wanted to make a splash. Brand happened to be his biggest client at the time.

These guys all went back and forth on the radio. Nobody denied what Dunleavy had to say. They just talked themselves around it.

At the end of the day, he was a free agent and free to go wherever he wanted. Nobody had a problem with that at all. The problem is in the way he chose to handle things. He is the one that went back on his word, tried to defer the blame off of his decision, and he ended up dissing the fans in one of his interviews. We Clipper fans have our reasons as to why he became public enemy number 1 to us. He established a particular image while in the league and he shed that image that summer. Anybody else is free to have their own interpretation, but it doesn't really make much of a difference to us. I've gotten over it, but I totally understand those that still resent him.

Losing brand ended up being a good thing anyways, Imagine being saddled with Brand's contract AND baron's contract, both of which are borderline untradable. Plus it would be hard for a coach to bench a guy making 75 mil (or whatever brands making these days) for Blake even if hes #1 pick. There woulda been all sorts of drama prolly. (brand really didn't like it when eddie jordan tried to use him off the bench)

Back on topic, I don't think we have to worry about losing either for awhile. If we can build a young core together (which we are doing) and go the OKC route, we could probably emerge in 3 years as a contender. Remember, the first year with durant/green when SEA blew up their roster before the season started and played all the kids, they were horrible ( i forget, but maybe 20 wins?). I think we got to do the same now too, just try to shed all the bad contracts, ship out baron and kaman asap even if we don't get anything of value in return so that theirs no minutes wasted on them. I give up on any results this year or in the short term, but the organization has to realize its time to start from scratch.

We should also probably have a really high draft pick this draft (Its a weak one though) to help build around.

I'm mostly afraid of when baron and kaman get back that VDN uses them alot in order to try to get some meaningless wins to help his job security. They might be better in the short term for wins now, but they are not at all in our future plans imo.

Det the Threat wrote:Not sure why we should be concerned about that.
They're still under contract, we could give them the most money and Sterling has shown in the last couple of years that he pays his guys.

clips1386 wrote:I'll be quite annoyed really, as a franchise I feel we've done a lot for EJ.

I'll be pretty pissed if EJ goes elsewhere and becomes a 25ppg player. So much potential, but since the rookie year, the steps haven't being as big (or consistent) as we'd all hoped for...

Not sure what you're talking about here.
Gordon's averaging 23 PPG this season and if there's anything that was holding him back it was having a guy like Baron Davis running the show.
EJ's more like a Brandon Roy type of SG that needs the ball in his hands to be effective and having Davis, who dribbles it till there's hardly any time left on the clock, on his side doesn't really help him to develop his skills.

Hmm, I don't really remember writing this, but a few things I should add

- 25+ ppg, better efficiency.
- So much potential to lead our team with Grif but we have a pretty ordinary record over the past 27 months, making his numbers pretty useless (see Monta Ellis)