What are the benefits of being coached by George Karl?

[Quake Griffin]

I think we're going to end up hiring him...so don't merge thread.
Just change it to George Karl thread when he gets hired.


his team wasn't that good on defense this year.
they didn't run sh** and they looked terrible if they weren't fast breaking.


OG, u got some stats?
anybody have anything positive to say about this LOTR looking character becoming our HC?

[Neddy]

he is everything we have asked for over vinny.

1. he is proven. former coach of the year twice in the 80s while coaching CBA. current coach of the year in NBA.
2. he has playoff experience, went to NBA finals with the sonics.
3. he commands respect, something vinny couldn't do.
4. has a system.
5. that "big name" guy our FO was talking about when this search started.

[Quake Griffin]

what kind of offense does he run?

does he coach defense well?
what in the hell does this guy do well?

[Neddy]

what kind of offense does he run?

does he coach defense well?
what in the hell does this guy do well?

A for Q #1. he has uncanny ability to adapt to his talent to create the best fitting offense. he has ran a half court offense based on PG/PF play in seattle that thrived in running fastbreaks based on their guards being able to create TOs and run, then tighten back down and be conservative and use the clock in set offensive positions most of the tim. then he changed his offense to fit the need of superstar-less nuggets and utilized a run and gun offense to maximize their youth and speed, turning them into league leading 106 pts per game team.

A for Q #2. reasonably well.

A for Q #3. repeat the A#1.

[IShotTheMaid]

Choking in the playoffs.

[og15]

Good breakdown (that now disappeared), offense is basically it, and Denver fans complain that he doesn't have much of an offensive system, it's drive and kick or shoot.p

Chauncey Billups supposedly had to instill inbounds plays when he got to Denver because they didn't have any. His defense feeds on turnovers like the Clippers, which is not a consistent playoff defense, and the Nuggets the last two seasons were 20th and 30th in opponent 3PT%.

So defensively a lot of similarities to VDN it seems, offensively, his advantage is that he could force Paul to run, but in terms of any advanced offense, that won't happen. Drive and kick, shoot, pick and roll, and lobs, then run as much as possible. Sposedly doesn't do too much in terms of off ball screens, cutting, back doors, all that stuff.

So I don't know, there are positives he could bring to the offense, defense, well, this team needs a system, it can't run off defensive talent. I' wouldn't be disappointed, but I wouldn't say he's the best option. But I felt JVG who pulled out, and Mike Malone who the Clips were too slow with were more optimal options for maximizing this roster for the playoffs. Karl will definitely win a lot of regular season games though. Paul improves an offense singlehandely, so you have a higher chance of success with Paul, a wing that can do more than spot up, a won that defends, a second scorer at PF, Mutombo at C and a defensive coach.

[mkwest]

Karl in his own words....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW84HI_u1Yg[/youtube]

George Karl reflects on life, playing fast, and playing the Warriors

"The thing about playing fast offensively is that I think it allows you to emphasize defense," he says. "Because you let them have the freedom a lot offensively. And coaches don't give freedom away very easily. I think as a coach, someone told me you can't coach intense at both ends of the court. Your team's going to know what your favorite side of the court is.

"We don't coach maybe the execution of a play," he says. "We teach spacing, but we don't work on the timing of flare screens and the timing of staggers. And we don't spend a lot of time on the tricks of screens or the tricks of execution sets. We talk about spacing and we talk about getting into the paint. I actually think I coach what a good shot is as much as any coach in the NBA."

That "good shot," if you play the percentages is, in order of quality: 1) Dunks or layups; 2) free throws; 3) corner 3-pointers; 4) above-the-break 3-pointers, and then somewhere near 5,472 mid-range jumpshots. The Nuggets led the league this season in points in the paint and shots in the restricted area, were fifth in free-throw rate, eighth in corner 3 attempts (in a season they were not great at shooting 3s), 27th in above-the-break 3s and second-to-last in mid-range jump shots.

Karl is a big believer in the time-trusted idea of not changing your entire approach based on matchups. You did something to get you here, so you must have had some measure of success. And Karl thinks flooding players with too much information only causes problems.

Matt Moore, CBS Sports

Some of his concepts are similar to Vinny's. No set offense, but a free-flowing offense of player freedom. He believes that the defense dictates the offense, but his defenses haven't been elite in quite some time.

____________________________________

Here is how his teams (Denver, Milwaukee and Seattle) have performed in terms of pace, offensive/defensive efficiency ranks.

Denver

Code: Select all

Year  Pace   Rk    Ortg    Rk    Drtg    Rk    Record   Playoffs

2013  95.1 - 2nd   110.4 - 5th   105.1 - 11th (57-25)   1st round exit (4-2)
2012  94.2 - 2nd   109.2 - 3rd   106.2 - 20th (38-28)   1st round exit (4-3)
2011  95.6 - 2nd   112.3 - 1st   107.3 - 16th (50-32)   1st round exit (4-1)
2010  94.8 - 5th   111.8 - 3rd   107.5 - 16th (53-29)   1st round exit (4-2)
2009  94.3 - 6th   110.4 - 7th   106.8 - 8th  (54-28)   Lost in WCF (4-2)   to Lakers*
2008  99.7 - 1st   110.0 - 11th  106.3 - 10th (50-32)   1st round exit (4-0) to Lakers
2007  97.4 - 2nd   107.6 - 8th   105.9 - 11th (45-37)   1st round exit (4-1) to Spurs*
2006  93.9 - 2nd   105.5 - 17th  105.2 - 13th (44-38)   1st round exit (4-1)
2005  93.5 - 4th   106.0 - 16th  103.9 - 8th  (32-8)    1st round exit (4-1) to Spurs*

Milwaukee

Code: Select all

Year  Pace   Rk    Ortg    Rk    Drtg    Rk    Record   Playoffs

2003  90.4 - 19th  108.8 - 2nd   108.6 - 28th (42-40)   1st round exit (4-2) to Nets
2002  90.2 - 17th  106.9 - 8th   107.1 - 23rd (41-41)   N/A
2001  92.1 - 10th  108.8 - 1st   104.6 - 20th (52-30)   Lost in ECF (4-3)    to 76ers
2000  92.7 - 16th  108.2 - 2nd   107.9 - 26th (42-40)   1st round exit (3-2) to Pacers
1999  87.0 - 22nd  104.9 - 7th   103.0 - 17th (28-22)   1st round exit (3-0)

Seattle

Code: Select all

Year  Pace   Rk    Ortg    Rk    Drtg    Rk    Record   Playoffs

1998  89.8 - 18th  111.6 - 3rd   103.6 - 10th (61-21)   2nd round exit (4-1)
1997  90.3 - 16th  111.2 - 3rd   102.7 - 6th  (57-25)   2nd round exit (4-3)
1996  93.8 - 3rd   110.3 - 8th   102.1 - 2nd  (64-18)   Lost in Finals (4-2) to Bulls*
1995  95.5 - 3rd   114.8 - 2nd   106.3 - 10th (57-25)   1st round exit (1-3)
1994  95.1 - 14th  111.1 - 2nd   101.5 - 3rd  (63-19)   1st round exit (2-3)
1993  96.0 - 16th  112.3 - 4th   104.9 - 2nd  (55-27)   Lost in WCF (4-3)    to Suns
1992  95.4 - 18th  110.7 - 9th   108.8 - 15th (27-15)   2nd round exit (4-1)

Here are the tempos of Chris Paul led teams:

LAC
2013 91.1 - 19th (56-26)
2012 89.2 - 27th (40-26)

New Orleans (Monty Williams)
2011 88.7 - 29th (46-36)

New Orleans (Byron Scott)
2010 92.6 - 15th (37-45)
2009 87.8 - 28th (49-33)
2008 89.8 - 26th (56-26)
2007 90.2 - 23rd (39-43)
2006 89.0 - 26th (38-44)

The fastest pace that Paul has played has been 92.6 possessions per game. Karl-led teams have only only been slower than that 6 times. Karl's middle of the road paced teams of the early 90's would be some of the highest paced teams today. For the most part, his teams have not been much defensively outside of when he has excellent defensive players. We don't really have standout defensive players atm, which probably wouldn't bode well for our defense under Karl.

We have players with defensive tools, but they just don't know how to use them all that well. From a defensive perspective, you want a coach that can bring the most of out the players and to compensate for any shortcomings (i.e. mask their defensive limitations if necessary). The playoffs really rely on rebounds, defense and making the most out of your possessions. I'm personally more concerned about improving the defense than improving the offense. If it's not a strong suit for the coach, then we need the right players to make up the slack.

In the past, Tim Grgurich (famous for working with bigs) has been an assistant to Karl. It would great if he was included in the event that Karl was hired.

In regards to his playoff woes...his teams have been knocked out by the eventual champions 4 times and to the eventual runner up 5 times. 45% of the time, his team has been eliminated by 1 of the 2 teams to play for the championship. Also, in the middle of the 2009-2010 season, Adrian Dantley took over for the team while George Karl recovered from his Chemo treatments, so Karl is credited with the W/L's, but did not actually coach those games.

[scoobs07]

CP and Crawford love to shoot mid range jump shots. If Karl is hired, he is going to make them shoot the three more. Karl hates mid range jump shots.

[og15]

Paul shot 50.3%% from 10-15 feet this year, that's the same as 33% 3PT, he shot 46.8% from 16-23. He was assisted on 15.7% and 18.2% of those makes respectively. He's as elite as it comes when we talk about mid-range shooting and creating shots in mid-range.

Basically if you have a team where everyone but Paul can has to shoot 3's and try to get to the rim, you would maximize offense because he will still do those things, but he will be well above league average in unassisted mid-range shots.

In 11-12 he shot 47.4 and 47.0% from 10-15 and 16-23 respectively and was assisted on 5.4% and 10.2% of those makes.

[scoobs07]

So basically, you are saying that Karl will make a exception to the mid range jump shooting Paul, because he is extra ordinarily efficient from that area? That actually makes sense, since the whole point is that Karl just wants to get as efficient a shot as possible. CP is better at the mid range shot then a lot of players are at lay ups and corner threes.

[scoobs07]

Better CP shooting those mid range shots then somebody like Blake or DJ.

[Roscoe Sheed]

CP and Crawford love to shoot mid range jump shots. If Karl is hired, he is going to make them shoot the three more. Karl hates mid range jump shots.

I'm starting to become a very strong proponent of Byron Scott. he is the best of all the options all things considered. I think the guys- most importantly CP3- will enjoy playing for him and work hard for him. All of the other guys don't seem to be good fits for the Clips personnel, with the possible exception of Hollins

[Neddy]

why do some think karl will force our guys to fit into his mold? karl isn't phil jackson or even pop. george karl will mold his system around our strength.

[Quake Griffin]

why do some think karl will force our guys to fit into his mold? karl isn't phil jackson or even pop. george karl will mold his system around our strength.

i just don't think he's good at anything in particular.

we sucked on defense the 2nd half of the year and in the playoffs.
how in the hell is he going to help us improve there?

our offense was unimaginative,
how will he help us there?


i just don't see it.
sorry.
he's just a decorated name at this point.

[Neddy]

and shaw is a sure thing, right...

[Roscoe Sheed]

and shaw is a sure thing, right...

Byron Scott is also an option. I'm wary of Shaw as well because of the possible bad fit with the triangle and he has no head coaching experience.

[Quake Griffin]

and shaw is a sure thing, right...

when did I ever support Shaw?

i have no solutions here.
only tons of sodium over how long it took us to fire Vinny, hence, not getting in on the ground floor for MM

[Neddy]

right now, from the coaches that are available to us, the rank goes

karl > scott > shaw.

and clearly,

karl >>>> vinny.

[Quake Griffin]

so for clarification.

in what ways will he improve us?
what offense will he/ can he run for us?
we wont even worry about defense...he doesn't have it...and who needs that come playoff time?


I've always Karl was an overrated pantzie who created riffs with players for no reasons other than him being a diva.

i honestly wonder what are CP's thoughts on him.

[Neddy]

read back to the previous page, plenty there for your redundant questions man.

rather, who do you have in mind as our new HC that is a better option than karl? can you give examples of why or how? do you even have a candidate in mind? or simply playing devils advocate for the sake of being one?