Quick Question(Settles an argument)

[NBADraft2003]

I have this dumbass friend, we were talking about OKC and he says he's tired of KD and they should ship him out for Blake AND CP3. My first reaction: . I laughed but he was dead serious, I told him Blake+CP3 value is higher than KD's alone. He started talking about this scenario where it's KD recruiting another All-Star like Rondo to pair him up with. These are his exact words:

Durant is definitely worth Blake and CP3 on his own Chris Paul has never made it past the second round of the play offs and BG is no AD. Like I said Clippers would then have KD to help them reach out to FA next year which like I said Bledsoe Rondo even D Lil is in. You pair KD with Damian Lillard or Rajon Rondo who would you rather? Blake or CP3 or KD with another all star.

Would you trade Blake+CP3 to OKC for KD+pieces?

Stupid question but I just want this argument over with...

[Wammy Giveaway]

Here's what we know: Durant becomes a free agent in the 2016-17 season. He has made one NBA Finals appearance. I would tell your friend, "Too soon."

Secondly, trading for Griffin AND Paul is out of the question. The Clipper fans here can give you lots of reasons, but I'll stick with "They saved the Clippers from irrelevancy and deserve a ring for their valiant efforts" (even though championships aren't won this way).

But let me entertain your friend for a minute. Had he said "Griffin for Durant," then he would make some sense. C.J. Wilcox, Jamal Crawford, Spencer Hawes and Steve Ballmer all have connections to Seattle. By being drafted by Seattle in the 2007 NBA Draft, Durant is technically a part of this connection. The case for Griffin to the Thunder is he gets to go home. The case for Durant to the Clippers is a True Big 3, an instant conference finals appearance, and CP3's reputation restored. If the Clippers did trade Griffin for Durant, then it would serve as payback for what Clay Bennett did to Seattle in 2008. But this is just wishful thinking on my part.

So yeah, no to this trade. Griffin and Paul are doing just fine in Los Angeles.

[Sofia]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l6bxdnx

[LACtdom]

An offer of Durant for Blake + DJ might make people hesitate a bit more. CP3 is worth too much to us.

[RiversideClips]

Did your friend have a "Crack" pipe in his hand when he made this suggestion?

[Quake Griffin]

I think Paul is better than Durant so no I would not trade him for the lesser player.

But that's just me and I realize I'm alone in holding that opinion but I really do believe it.

[NBADraft2003]

Did your friend have a "Crack" pipe in his hand when he made this suggestion?

Exactly what I asked him

[mj_shoefanatic]

2-for-1? NOPE.

[Ranma]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l6bxdnx

This is exactly why I find LOLinger and his statistical analysis laughable.

[Ranma]

NBADraft2003,

an argument can easily be made that Kevin Durant is the most valuable player in the trade proposal since he just won the MVP award. It can also be made that he's the foremost player to build a team around from scratch if you had the choice even ahead of LeBron James given their respective ages, but your friend is basically asking that we trade two top-five MVP candidates for one albeit a player who just won the award recently.

All three are franchise players with Blake Griffin finishing third in the voting in the most recent campaign. Sure, Griffin finished a distant third but a case can be made that he's approaching LeBron-level value if he's not already there given the similarities in their versatile high-level games. Blake is unlikely to ever be the defender LeBron is but Durant hasn't exactly made the All-Defensive Team either.

Speaking of which, Chris Paul actually made the 2013-14 NBA First Team All-Defensive Team while LBJ was on the second team. Paul has also unquestionably transformed two different franchises for the better. CP3 practically, in single-handed fashion, willed the New Orleans Hornets to near the top of the Western Conference with a 2007-08 that saw him arguably deserve the MVP award that season only to finish second in voting to Kobe Bryant and a better supporting cast. He literally transformed the Clippers into a winning organization upon his arrival in 2011-12 as the team has posted an active streak of consecutive winning seasons since then with a 153-77 overall record and .665 winning percentage.

Sure, having Blake Griffin helps and he's incurred plenty of wear and tear with the mileage he's racked up, but Chris Paul is not exactly over-the-hill at age 29 and is and has been unquestionably the league's best point guard at the position most consider as of the utmost importance.

Your friend can argue that having Kevin Durant will attract other free agents, but none of them hold a candle to CP3. It remains to be seen if Durantula can even ultimately succeed with Russell Westbrook as he seems to defer too much to his talented-but-wild teammate. Personally, I think OKC should deal Westbrook for a big return to get the most out of Durant and their system, but I digress. Back to the topic at hand, it is highly dubious to propose that we give up sure things in both Griffin and Paul for Durant and the chance to attract a Rondo, Lillard, or Bledsoe when even any of those combinations pales in comparison to what is being given up.

I assume your friend is a Thunder fan and, with both Griffin and Paul's connections to Oklahoma, I can understand why getting them both would appeal to him/her so much even if it meant sacrificing Durant to do it. Blake grew up in the state and played college ball at Oklahoma University while Chris actually played his rookie NBA season mostly in Oklahoma City as the former Hornets had to relocate there in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. However, his/her trade proposal is wishful thinking as no one in their right mind would accept such an offer. Like I've said, the Thunder's best hope would probably be dealing Westbrook away while his value is high for a monster return even as I acknowledge that finding the right deal could prove daunting. After all, quantity over quality would not really serve OKC well in such a situation.

[Ranma]

Ben Golliver, Sports Illustrated (9/19/14)

10 - Blake Griffin, Clippers
Forward | Age: 25
6-10, 251 pounds
Last year: No. 19

2013-14 statistics
• 24.1 PPG, 9.5 RPG, 3.9 APG, 52.8 FG%
• 24 PER, 12.2 Win Shares, 4.1 RAPM

Griffin is a finisher so fearsome that a rotating defender's main objective is to avoid embarrassment. Some do so by conceding the points. Others simply play for the foul, particularly in transition. Griffin gets to the line on 19 percent of his fast-break possessions, per Synergy Sports, more than LeBron James (13.4 percent), Russell Westbrook (13.5 percent) and even the foul-baiting James Harden (17 percent). It's often all an opponent can do to foul Griffin after he makes a catch in open space, a dilemma that extends into half-court situations off of Griffin's cuts and rolls.

Not that a foul can really stop him. Griffin has the strength and body control to burst through contact, and last season he created more and-one opportunities than all but two other players (James and DeMarcus Cousins). To add to the hopelessness of beating Griffin with contact, fouling the All-NBA forward is no longer the value play it once was. A player who once bounced between the 50s and 60s in free throw percentage made the jump to 71.5 percent last season and 74 percent in the playoffs. It's still probably wise for a defense to take its chances with Griffin at the line instead of giving up easy looks, but even that assumes that individual defenders are strong and quick enough to have any say in the matter. Griffin is such a tough cover that it's difficult to even foul him effectively.

In between the highlights, there is also a big man with the ball skills of a guard and the strength to displace even the burliest of opponents. Dwelling on the dunking understates the rest of what Griffin does well, including those skills that most set him apart. Griffin is a singular talent for how he moves and handles with the ball in his hands on the perimeter. He is as comfortable in that space -- while breaking opponents down off the dribble and making keen plays -- as anywhere else on the floor, and is thus able to be used in ways that the great majority of bigs cannot.

Griffin's post game still relies on some pretty crazy moves, but unorthodox shouldn't be confused for ineffective. The Clipper is just too strong and well coordinated to have his improvisations quashed. Sometimes he'll back down an opponent before drop stepping into a leaping, swiveling finger roll. At others Griffin will face up and beat his man to prime position for a hook shot. Much taller, lankier defenders can sometimes give him problems. Yet more often than not Griffin finds a way around, through, or over the top of a defender.

With all of these threats to account for, defenses have given Griffin room on the perimeter in an effort to challenge his range. His shot is still very much a work in progress. But to his credit, Griffin refuses to go overboard in his attempts to prove his jumper worthy of a defense's attention. Last season Griffin expertly walked the line between confident takes and patient plays for better offense. Mid-range jumpers will never be the core of Griffin's game and he doesn't treat them as such. They're merely a change of pace, a counterbalance, a bit of seasoning. His shooting need only be competent enough to keep those other lanes for offense open, and Griffin has reached that point already while keeping his offensive priorities in order.

SI.com's Top 100 NBA players of 2015: 10-1

[Ranma]

Ben Golliver, Sports Illustrated (9/19/14)

3 - Chris Paul, Clippers
Guard | Age: 29
6-0, 175 pounds
Last year: No. 3

2013-14 statistics
• 19.1 PPG, 10.7 APG, 4.3 RPG, 46.7 FG%, 36.8 3P%
• 26 PER, 12.2 Win Shares, 5.8 RAPM

Paul has spent his entire three-year Clippers tenure as the NBA’s best all-around point guard and the consensus third-best player in the league behind LeBron James and Kevin Durant. Neither of those titles changed in 2013-14, even though Paul missed an extended stretch due to a shoulder injury and suffered through the highest-profile postseason meltdown of his nine-year career.

There’s simply too much evidence of Paul’s worth, no matter where you look. Paul earned All-Star (seventh straight year), All-NBA First Team (third straight year) and All-Defensive First Team (third straight year) honors last season. He ranked No. 1 among point guards in PER, No. 7 overall in Win Shares, No. 2 overall in RAPM and offensive rating and he led the league in both assists and steals per game. He was the driving force behind the league’s No. 1 offense, posted a team-high +11.6 net rating, was the first player in three years to average 19 points and 10 assists, and led the Clippers to their second straight division title and a franchise-record 57 wins. By any measure, other than playoff success, Paul has fully separated himself from everyone in the NBA not named James or Durant.

That’s an absolutely absurd list of accomplishments, and yet those four words – “other than playoff success” – still stick out like a sore thumb. For as long as Paul has been the NBA’s third-best player, he’s also been the league’s best player to have never reached a conference finals. L.A.’s season ended in the conference semifinals, with Paul at the center of a disastrous Game 5 collapse against the Thunder. After referring, in anguish, to his fourth-quarter miscues as “the toughest thing I’ve been through basketball-wise,” and “bad basketball,” Paul was unable to pick the Clippers up off the mat in Game 6. The happy memories of his exhilarating eight three-pointers in Game 1 against Oklahoma City were already long gone.

It’s impossible to muster any venom towards Paul’s shortcomings, as bad and uncharacteristic as they were, given the toxic cloud cast over the Clippers by the racial controversy involving deposed owner Donald Sterling. All star players must deal with distractions, but Sterling and his shameless wife were pure poison at the worst possible time. New owner Steve Ballmer’s arrival represents a totally new book for the organization, not just a new chapter, and Paul is perfectly cast as its leading protagonist.

SI.com's Top 100 NBA players of 2015: 10-1

[LACtdom]

In Paul's defense, Durant has never had post season success either. I don't think either player will lose any respect if they go their whole career without winning it all.

[Wammy Giveaway]

In Paul's defense, Durant has never had post season success either. I don't think either player will lose any respect if they go their whole career without winning it all.

Kevin Durant is fine; he made one Finals appearance. Paul is the only superstar of the LeBron era to have never reached the conference level. If he doesn't reach it, even if it means having to sit out like Tracy McGrady for the entire playoffs, his entry to the Hall Of Fame could be compromised.

Another superstar has never made the conference level, Dominique Wilkins. 10 playoff appearances, lost three second rounders in a row (1988-89, 1991). In the lockout season with the Magic, he played in just one game for only 3 minutes. Paul could end up like Wilkins.

[Ranma]

Kevin Durant is fine; he made one Finals appearance. Paul is the only superstar of the LeBron era to have never reached the conference level. If he doesn't reach it, even if it means having to sit out like Tracy McGrady for the entire playoffs, his entry to the Hall Of Fame could be compromised.

Another superstar has never made the conference level, Dominique Wilkins. 10 playoff appearances, lost three second rounders in a row (1988-89, 1991). In the lockout season with the Magic, he played in just one game for only 3 minutes. Paul could end up like Wilkins.

I disagree. While I obviously hope Chris wins a Larry (multiply Larry's actually), his career path--barring injury and other unforeseen circumstances--has him a virtual lock for the Hall of Fame even if he doesn't ever win an NBA championship. He's more along the lines of John Stockton and Charles Barkley: obviously great players who belong in a class of G.O.A.T. members. While Kobe gets the MJ comparison, Paul compares to Isiah Thomas IMO in terms of importance to a team's success as well as skill and statistical accomplishments. Obviously, where he's lacking is in the rings department but we're all hoping the Clips can solve that problem real soon. CP3 hasn't had the same supporting class that Thomas was blessed with early in his career until maybe just recently. Keep in mind that LeBron had to skedaddle to Miami to get his rings before returning to Cleveland while Paul took a more patient approach before leaving New Orleans.

[Wammy Giveaway]

Keep in mind that LeBron had to skedaddle to Miami to get his rings before returning to Cleveland while Paul took a more patient approach before leaving New Orleans.

The difference here is that Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh were all superstars, and Blake Griffin is the only other superstar in the Clippers roster.

[Ranma]

Ian Thomsen, Sports Illustrated (1/29/13)

Likely risers: Unless something changes to alter the trend, these five stars in their 20s are on their way to becoming Hall of Famers.
...

Chris Paul, 27 (4 All-NBA, 6 All-Star) -- Arguably the league's strongest leader, he transformed the Clippers and has won two Olympic gold medals.

Chris Bosh among 18 active players likely to make Hall


Bryan Toporek, Bleacher Report (9/6/12)

Fun fact: Despite having only been in the NBA for seven years now, Chris Paul has already led the league in total steals five times and total assists twice.

The diminutive Paul doesn't let his stature (he's listed as 6'0", and that's likely generous) get in the way of pure, unadulterated dominance from the 1. Paul has no reservations about dropping 20-plus points in a game, but he'd much rather rack up a double-digit assist total and let his teammates do the heavy lifting.

Behind Steve Nash, there may be no better pure point guard in the NBA. And Nash, in his late 30s, can only dream of still lighting it up like Paul, who's more than a decade younger.

Paul has the 2006 NBA Rookie of the Year award already on his mantelpiece, along with two Olympic gold medals. Even if Paul never wins an NBA championship (and here's guessing that he does eventually win one), he'll be a Hall of Famer just by maintaining his current trajectory.

Predicting Which Current NBA Stars Will Make the Hall of Fame


Doug Sibor, Complex (3/26/14)

2. Chris Paul
Years in NBA: 9
NBA stats: 606 G, 18.6 PPG, 4.4 RPG, 9.9 APG, 2.4 SPG, 0.1 BPG
College stats: 63 G, 15.0 PPG, 3.9 RPG, 6.3 APG
NBA accolades: 7x NBA All-Star, 3x All-NBA First Team, 1x All-NBA Second Team, 1x All-NBA Third Team, 3x NBA All-Defensive First Team, 2x NBA All-Defensive Second Team, 2006 NBA Rookie of the Year, 2006 NBA All-Rookie First Team
College accolades: 2005 First Team All-American
International accolades: 2x Olympic Gold Medal, 2006 FIBA World Championship Bronze Medal, 2004 FIBA Americas U20 Championship Gold Medal

In the history of the NBA, only three players have averaged more assists per game over the first nine years of their career than Chris Paul. Those three are some guys you might recognize: John Stockton, Magic Johnson, and Oscar Robertson. Of that group, CP3 is the most accomplished on the defensive end of the floor, often being pressed into duty against the other team's most talented guard. As a perennial All-Star and MVP candidate, the only thing that has prevented Paul from winning even more awards has been his health; to date, he's reached 70 games played in just over half of his NBA seasons.

Ranking the Basketball Hall of Fame Eligibility of the NBA's Veterans

[Ranma]

Keep in mind that LeBron had to skedaddle to Miami to get his rings before returning to Cleveland while Paul took a more patient approach before leaving New Orleans.

The difference here is that Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh were all superstars, and Blake Griffin is the only other superstar in the Clippers roster.

I personally wouldn't categorize Bosh as a "superstar" but your point stands. He's definitely a star player but not on the same level as a LeBron or Wade as he's more along the lines of a Kevin Love, Damian Lilliard, Rajan Rondo, and the like. Then again, I may be underestimating him given that he's ranked ahead of Paul on Basketball-Reference.com's HOF probability rankings shown above, but that is undoubtedly boosted by the championship rings he got coattailing on LeBron and Wade. He doesn't pass the eye test to me as a "superstar".

The Clippers do lack that third for a solid "Big 3", but hopefully our depth can make up for that. Otherwise, a trade of Crawford, Barnes, and possibly even DJ may be necessary.

[Ranma]

Paul could end up like Wilkins.

Also, just for a point of reference, 'Nique is actually in the Hall of Fame, but I get the point you were making.

[Quake Griffin]

If people keep bringing up Paul not getting out of the 2nd round, I'm going to get equally annoying (on forums and IRL) and start my own campaign calling him the unluckiest superstar ever.

and I'm gonna yell it from pillar to post and clog my ears if anybody says something else to the contrary.