Doc's Latest Guard Obsession: Sebastian Telfair

Ranma · Post #1 » by **Ranma** » Sun Feb 8, 2015 10:22 pm

What is it about with Doc's obsession with guards?! He's Elgin-Baylor-like in that regard except the polar opposite given Baylor's preference of big men over more talented guards. If he's not Colleti-ing our roster in squandering young assets over past-their-prime options, he's looking to extremes in embracing his "small ball" lineup. No wonder we can't play any defense when we keep bringing in players who can't defend and/or lack the length to do so. Our starting power forward goes down and Doc's first inclination is to acquire an undersized PG who can't even shoot. That makes sense...in Bizarro world.

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MartinToVaught · Post #2 » by **MartinToVaught** » Sun Feb 8, 2015 10:38 pm

Why? He sucked the last time he was here, what use would we have for an older version of him? :banghead:

Wammy Giveaway · Post #3 » by **Wammy Giveaway** » Sun Feb 8, 2015 10:44 pm

Ranma wrote:What is it about with Doc's obsession with guards?!

For what it's worth, Sebastian Telfair is one of Doc's guys. He played for Doc as a Boston Celtic in the 2006-07 season. Telfair was one of five players involved in the famous farm trade for superstar Kevin Garnett who, when paired with Paul Pierce and Ray Allen, gave Doc his first ring.

Doc really values players who've played for him before. If you've played for him before as a Celtic or Magic, you're getting high priority.

Clemenza · Post #4 » by **Clemenza** » Sun Feb 8, 2015 10:45 pm

This is turning into a nightmare with Doc at the helm.. If things go bad in the playoffs I wouldn't mind letting Doc go at all.

mttwlsn16 · Post #5 » by **mttwlsn16** » Mon Feb 9, 2015 12:04 am

Blake gets hurt. Sign Telfair. Lol

nickhx2 · Post #6 » by **nickhx2** » Mon Feb 9, 2015 12:31 am

hahaha yeah i know, right

the thing that bothers me even more is i actually like austin in the 1-ish role he's playing. my hope is that telfair is only meant to serve as a temporary stopgap while jj is out.

LACtdom · Post #7 » by **LACtdom** » Mon Feb 9, 2015 1:14 am

If Doc signs him, I hope it's because JJ or JC are getting traded.

mattd13 · Post #8 » by **mattd13** » Mon Feb 9, 2015 1:22 am

you really want to trade jj?

LACtdom · Post #9 » by **LACtdom** » Mon Feb 9, 2015 1:27 am

mattd13 wrote:you really want to trade jj?

We need defense. JJ and JC are completely different types of players but both are offensive players playing in the same position. Also they are our only players with value outside our big three. JJ is my second favourite Clipper and if I were coach I would make him untradable. At the end of the day, our system isn't working. We need to change it up.

Just to note: when I say trade, I don't mean for Sebastian Telfair I mean to sign Telfair and trade one of our valuable guards for a defensive player.

nickhx2 · Post #10 » by **nickhx2** » Mon Feb 9, 2015 1:35 am

Ehh, if you trade JJ then the best offense in the league takes a huge step backward. He's not a great defender but he's not the reason why we're middling. If you trade him, we'll never get that offense back so you better be damn sure the guy you get back makes up for what you lost.

As such i don't think there is one person we can trade JJ for who can fix all that ails our defense. Our overall personnel is flawed. We need at least a couple really strong defenders AND we need to punt jamal the hell out of here to get to where we want to be.

JJ is just too valuable and he's not the problem.

Post #11 » by **og15** » Mon Feb 9, 2015 1:46 am

JJ is making shots very well right now and Jamal is shooting 36% FG and 30% 3PT over his last 30 games. I think I'll keep JJ and move Jamal who also isn't the most reliable come playoff time against certain defenses. JJ at least keeps your offense moving and draws defenders and attention.

Neddy · Post #12 » by **Neddy** » Mon Feb 9, 2015 1:58 am

LACtdom wrote:If Doc signs him, I hope it's because JJ or JC are getting traded.

between the two, JC is the one to go.

here is my crude "from off the top of my head" evaluation of the two.

players ---- JJ ---- JC

spot up ---- 9 ------ 8
shotoffdrib- 5------ 7
creativity - 5 -------9
passing ---- 6 ------ 6 (one is limited but makes the right pass, the other can make all the passes but won't)
BB IQ ------- 9 ------ 6 (JC has the IQ only when he wants it. makes bad decisions consistently despite his sometimes high IQ plays)
fit -----------9 ------7 (fit to CP3 and Blake)
defense ---- 7-------5 (seriously, I don't think I am underselling JC here. teams pick on JC, they don't on JJ)
size -------- 4 ------6 (JC has the length yet he plays small on defense)
endurance - 10-----7
durability --- 6 -----8
play w/i system 9 --- 4

overall ---- 79 vs 73

i sell JC and keep JJ every time.

Cracka2Hi · Post #13 » by **Cracka2Hi** » Mon Feb 9, 2015 2:04 am

He has to sign someone. Is there a better PG available. There has to be a reason that Nate Robinson hasn't been signed yet.

MartinToVaught · Post #14 » by **MartinToVaught** » Mon Feb 9, 2015 2:22 am

Neddy wrote:
LACtdom wrote:If Doc signs him, I hope it's because JJ or JC are getting traded.

between the two, JC is the one to go.

here is my crude "from off the top of my head" evaluation of the two.

players ---- JJ ---- JC

spot up ---- 9 ------ 8
shotoffdrib- 5------ 7
creativity - 5 -------9
passing ---- 6 ------ 6 (one is limited but makes the right pass, the other can make all the passes but won't)
BB IQ ------- 9 ------ 6 (JC has the IQ only when he wants it. makes bad decisions consistently despite his sometimes high IQ plays)
fit -----------9 ------7 (fit to CP3 and Blake)
defense ---- 7-------5 (seriously, I don't think I am underselling JC here. teams pick on JC, they don't on JJ)
size -------- 4 ------6 (JC has the length yet he plays small on defense)
endurance - 10-----7
durability --- 6 -----8
play w/i system 9 --- 4

overall ---- 79 vs 73

i sell JC and keep JJ every time.

Damn, going all Ronnie 2K on us.

LACtdom · Post #15 » by **LACtdom** » Mon Feb 9, 2015 2:24 am

Neddy wrote:
LACtdom wrote:If Doc signs him, I hope it's because JJ or JC are getting traded.

i sell JC and keep JJ every time.

I 100% agree but according to Doc, JJ isn't good enough to play late in the 4th. I think the majority of people would prefer to keep JJ but taking into account Doc's "Jamal Love" aspect, I think it's 50/50.

clip set · Post #16 » by **clip set** » Mon Feb 9, 2015 3:54 am

Clemenza wrote:This is turning into a nightmare with Doc at the helm.. If things go bad in the playoffs I wouldn't mind letting Doc go at all.

I think I agree with you at this point. It's not not happening though, since he got a fat extension.

Regardless of how we do in the playoffs, we absolutely need to bring in some legit front office people. Doc has absolutely no place as the head of basketball operations. I don't understand why Ballmer didn't bring in some quant/analytics guys or at least somebody who's been around the league to fall into that role/GM/assistant GM. All he did was bring in a president with no basketball experience.

MartinToVaught · Post #17 » by **MartinToVaught** » Mon Feb 9, 2015 3:58 am

clip set wrote:
Clemenza wrote:This is turning into a nightmare with Doc at the helm.. If things go bad in the playoffs I wouldn't mind letting Doc go at all.

I think I agree with you at this point. It's not not happening though, since he got a fat extension.

Regardless of how we do in the playoffs, we absolutely need to bring in some legit front office people. Doc has absolutely no place as the head of basketball operations. I don't understand why Ballmer didn't bring in some quant/analytics guys or at least somebody who's been around the league to fall into that role/GM/assistant GM. All he did was bring in a president with no basketball experience.

We could hire Buford, Morey, and Ainge, and Doc still wouldn't listen to any of them. See: the Hassan Whiteside fiasco. The front office wanted him, Doc refused to give him a look. IIRC, it was the same thing with KJ McDaniels. And even if GM Doc listened to his front office on the players they wanted, Coach Doc would simply refuse to play them since veterans like Hedo and Big Baby are entitled to minutes for life in his eyes. :noway:

Doc has to be straight-up fired, we need to get a real GM and coach, and we need to seriously consider shopping two of the Big Three for youth and picks. It's the only way we're getting out of the mess we're in, whether people want to accept that or not.

clip set · Post #18 » by **clip set** » Mon Feb 9, 2015 4:55 am

MartinToVaught wrote:
clip set wrote:
Clemenza wrote:This is turning into a nightmare with Doc at the helm.. If things go bad in the playoffs I wouldn't mind letting Doc go at all.

I think I agree with you at this point. It's not not happening though, since he got a fat extension.

Regardless of how we do in the playoffs, we absolutely need to bring in some legit front office people. Doc has absolutely no place as the head of basketball operations. I don't understand why Ballmer didn't bring in some quant/analytics guys or at least somebody who's been around the league to fall into that role/GM/assistant GM. All he did was bring in a president with no basketball experience.

We could hire Buford, Morey, and Ainge, and Doc still wouldn't listen to any of them. See: the Hassan Whiteside fiasco. The front office wanted him, Doc refused to give him a look. IIRC, it was the same thing with KJ McDaniels. And even if GM Doc listened to his front office on the players they wanted, Coach Doc would simply refuse to play them since veterans like Hedo and Big Baby are entitled to minutes for life in his eyes.

Doc has to be straight-up fired, we need to get a real GM and coach, and we need to seriously consider shopping two of the Big Three for youth and picks. It's the only way we're getting out of the mess we're in, whether people want to accept that or not.

The whole point of hiring someone like you've mentioned is that you put them in charge of roster construction and give the coach no discretion in player acquisitions. You basically use the coach for one off input if you want to consult him. It's a lot easier for coaches to bring small subjectivities and biases into who they value, and that's why it's better to keep the roles split. It works just fine for organizations who put competent people in both jobs. We don't currently have a real front office, so there isn't much of a point in pretending there are any kind of internal controls with regard to our team or acquisitions that Doc is overstepping.

I agree that Doc is obviously stubborn about who he plays, but if we didn't have this idiotic revolving doors of scrubs, he wouldn't even try to leverage playing his favorite scraps that are currently on our bench. If we had a front office with an understanding of value in the NBA's market, I'd infer that we'd have a better constructed roster. I'd like to think there wouldn't even be any argument for playing guys who should be 12th men. The front office issue is a lot easier to start remedying in the interim, it's just a matter of someone waking Ballmer up.

nickhx2 · Post #19 » by **nickhx2** » Mon Feb 9, 2015 5:49 am

LACtdom wrote:
Neddy wrote:
LACtdom wrote:If Doc signs him, I hope it's because JJ or JC are getting traded.

i sell JC and keep JJ every time.

I 100% agree but according to Doc, JJ isn't good enough to play late in the 4th. I think the majority of people would prefer to keep JJ but taking into account Doc's "Jamal Love" aspect, I think it's 50/50.

i misread this and for a good ten seconds i thought you were saying jj wasn't good enough to play in the 4th and not doc and i was about to start typing some very angry internet words

and despite how godawful he has been as a gm and despite his insistence on playing jamal in the 4th, i don't think doc is dumb enough to value him over jj.

you have to be billy knight kind of stupid to think jamal's worth more and doc's not there yet. right?

...

right?

Quake Griffin · Post #20 » by **Quake Griffin** » Mon Feb 9, 2015 7:00 am

You're like…
ok, just no more bad moves from here on out.

then you read this….